Holy now a bannable spell.

I mean, he already had a strike, and he needs to ask people in discord what is "safe"?

Doesn't look innocent to me.

Seen a player get reported and temp banned for cancelling an autobot bards performance by healing them. (few patches back) bard asked everybody to report the other player for impeding on their autobot bands performance. Who was in the wrong here?

In the end The ones looking at cases will be biased in their judgement depending on the number of reports levied against a player. so if 50 people are reporting the player for something within a 10 minute period, the gm is going to take it as disruption of play happening and that player is 99% likely to get punished even if it was something minor like filling up the battle log messages....

He was probably asked to stop, Seeing as he said he had a strike already. So its pretty oblivious he was doing it to annoy people and is probably a sort of troll as you can tell from his replies of not taking it seriously.
Asking the gm if he can stay in the jail longer because it looks cool.

brb, gonna report the millions of catgirls spamming that laughing emote.

So what I get out of this is I can report ppl auto crafting on ishgard and GMs will clear out the whole instance, because spam is spam. Or if someone uses an action(like cure) a lot, doesn't matter if it's in a dungeon, GMs will ban them. Neat, another way to abuse the system... Just what we need for a MMO. To bad this doesn't work on the Gil bot sellers spamming all day and night long!

My reaction to that GM...

https://i.imgur.com/dX2lc6g.jpg

Seriously GM's stop issuing bans for ridiculous stuff your GMing is bad here and you should feel bad! :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edax

On the other hand, why defend spamming?

---

By this logic, then crafters are bannable by spamming "Failed to attach materia" in the chat log, or its a bannable offence to craft in general in cities.

Yea i saw that.

It's absolutely stupid.
GM's ban this guy for spamming holy?
Do GM's not realise that you can filter chat logs as you please, and also turn off other players effects?
Meanwhile, someone in the comments of a similar reddit thread said that people report this one guy on their server who talks publicly about being head over heals for an underage girl, and they themselves get suspended for "abuse of the report system", that might just be BS but if that's true, its hilarious.
Meanwhile, Gathering bots are clipping through the floor, meanwhile bots are spamming links to RMT, why are GM's not dealing with that, and instead becoming basically the ones doing the harassment themselves, and...what i can't figure out...Why a suspension for this guy? Spamming holy is a 4 day suspension? Wouldn't a caution be more appropriate?

Its starting to feel like i should be scared of GM's, because this isn't the first time they've done something this stupid that's seems, atleast on the surface, like an abuse of power.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VenKitsune

Yea i saw that.

It's absolutely stupid.
GM's ban this guy for spamming holy?
Do GM's not realise that you can filter chat logs as you please, and also turn off other players effects?
Meanwhile, someone in the comments of a similar reddit thread said that people report this one guy on their server who talks publicly about being head over heals for an underage girl, and they themselves get suspended for "abuse of the report system", that might just be BS but if that's true, its hilarious.
Meanwhile, Gathering bots are clipping through the floor, meanwhile bots are spamming links to RMT, why are GM's not dealing with that, and instead becoming basically the ones doing the harassment themselves, and...what i can't figure out...Why a suspension for this guy? Spamming holy is a 4 day suspension? Wouldn't a caution be more appropriate?

Its starting to feel like i should be scared of GM's, because this isn't the first time they've done something this stupid that's seems, atleast on the surface, like an abuse of power.

---

maybe because people asked him to stop and they usually do it next to the marketboard or maybe he was following the people who were asking him to stop, we don't know about the deatails.

This is why I stay quiet and say nothing or do nothing in public paces.
I spend my tiMe in solitude in my house. I change gear sets in my house so not to annoy people with thre sound. I attach and meld material in my house so not to annoy people with the sound or chat spam. I craft in my house so not to annoy people with the success notice. I talk over tells so not to spam peoples chat boxes. I never emote in public when people are around. If you want to be safe and not get banned just put your head down, pray you don’t get kicked from the duty and get out as quickly as possible then sit in house and wait for next one to pop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AsukaAsakura

If you were following someone and spamming it, sure. Harassment it can be. But if you're standing in 1 spot, spamming holy... You aren't harassing anyone. They can walk away. They can turn your abilities off.

---

One person farting up a section of town with AOE spam should not dictate either A) where people can stand B) whether they get to see effects in town or not.

"TURN ABILITIES OFF" is a tool that is intended to cut down on the amount of things happening in a FATE or raid with a lot of actions and spells going off at once, not to mute the itinerant spammers and griefers of the game.

Maybe the person complaining actually wants to see people cast their spells in town, but would rather not have someone next to them cast the same spell over and over? Maybe they have a place right next to the summoning bell or the market board where they're working and the person spamming is right there? Asking a person with legitimate business to move away from a spammer is ridiculous and backwards.

Spamming, especially if asked not to, 100% deserves a ban. Be a good neighbor, not a childish griefer.

me thinks there is much more to da story...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBriggs304

me thinks there is much more to da story...

---

I'm certain there is.

But that's probably a far less interesting tale.

Time to mass report those pesky crafters! They all spam chat with their abilities. XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nedkel

Time to mass report those pesky crafters! They all spam chat with their abilities. XD

---

I mean, yeah. If spamming one ability can result in ban, then should all other abilities count towards it too.

Any sort of visual or audial -effects from it, reports going out. :P

Oof.

I knew when I saw this post in discord there was going to be a thread like this. I'm only going to say my two cents based off of like 6 pages of this forum since it seems to be just back and forth.

First, what's with the shaming and assumptions that power is always just? "He already has one strike, he must be guilty/troublesome." Honestly what kind of npc do you have to be to think like that.

And the point of spamming a single ability? There is none, it's just to waste time. It's exactly the same as what we're doing right here right now, wasting time on something irrelevant.

Lastly, offense can only be taken not given. Your rights end where mine begin. You don't have a right to request that I do or stop anything when it doesn't effect you. You're not being forced to stay here or to endure anything that I may or may not do, be mature and move along.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nethereal

Oof.

I knew when I saw this post in discord there was going to be a thread like this. I'm only going to say my two cents based off of like 6 pages of this forum since it seems to be just back and forth.

First, what's with the shaming and assumptions that power is always just? "He already has one strike, he must be guilty/troublesome." Honestly what kind of npc do you have to be to think like that.

And the point of spamming a single ability? There is none, it's just to waste time. It's exactly the same as what we're doing right here right now, wasting time on something irrelevant.

Lastly, offense can only be taken not given. Your rights end where mine begin. You don't have a right to request that I do or stop anything when it doesn't effect you. You're not being forced to stay here or to endure anything that I may or may not do, be mature and move along.

---

In regards to the first point: The kind who believes that after being given a warning, consequences have to follow at some point - in this case he was given a warning to behave at somepoint, was potentially asked by other people to stop his holy spam and decided to stick to it anyways.

In regards to your other two points: Why does someone has to spam that ability in a crowded city, where people can have legit buisness - from dealings on the market to following quests to crafting close to a marketboard? If you just want to waste time, why cant you do that in a more remote location, where you can enjoy your holy-spam without inflicting it on others? Just teleport out of the city, walk a few steps and you'll find plenty of space where you can holy your heart out without annoying anyone.
I'm sorry, but spamming holy in a crowded city servers excatly one purpose: To annoy other people - otherwise any other place would serve just aswell, including a private chamber or apartment. But no one would see you there, right? That would be less fun, wouldnt it! This intent isnt very mature, assuming that you want people to leave by trying to drive them off with your holy-spam sounds outright malicious.

For the record: I have all effects but mine turned off or set to limited - mainly because of holy. That spell makes me physically sick by triggering terrible headaches. For a while I was just turning effects off whenever a WHM ended up in my party, but switching those on and off again became pretty annoying, so now they're off for good. My point here is: Turning off effects whil absolulty possible is also annoying. Just like the person who thinks they need to spam holy in a crowded place like Limsa when they could do it just a easly in the corner of a map where no one else is effected by it.
After all... all they want to do is pass the time, right? So it shouldnt matter where they spam.

As often with these cases, I expect there is a missing part to the story.

Let's say there were a group of RPers RPing and he went in to spam off loads of abilities and emotes to harass them for RPing, this would probably count and its something people do and I have reported people for doing it because it can interfere and people like trolling RPers because some people find the hobby to be weird, but it is a community this game supports.

Heck it could have been to harass somebody specifically.

That chat log does very little for context beyond telling us they were spamming an ability.

It is quite common with things like this that people post you only see a part of the picture and not the whole thing and often get reactionary responses. When you don't have the full picture /always/ take it with a pinch of salt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vidu

In regards to the first point: The kind who believes that after being given a warning, consequences have to follow at some point ...

After all... all they want to do is pass the time, right? So it shouldnt matter where they spam.

---

So just because someone gives a "warning" means it has to be followed?
I'm warning you to stop posting, it hurts my sensitive feelings...
GM interference should be the last option, not the first. There are clear and easy ways to deal with holy spell usage, for everywhere! Should you ban someone in a fate because they were using holy and you couldn't see, no but that's exactly what you are advocating for.

Why stop there thou, ban healers if they have to chain heal tanks to keep them alive, because that's spamming, they can go run squadrons or trust to heal them instead, why play with other people, it's just an MMO where it's one of the core fundamentals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edax

On the other hand, why defend spamming?

---

Because if light and sound bother you there are ways to turn both of those effects down in the options menu?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

You can get banned for swearing but there's a chat filter.

You can get banned for spamming abilities but you can turn other people's abilities off.

What a silly game.

---

Problem is that young people expect companies to protect them while in reality it's our job to defend ourselves. Sadly this is going to the point if you burp in the room you are banned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bsrking5

So just because someone gives a "warning" means it has to be followed?
I'm warning you to stop posting, it hurts my sensitive feelings...
GM interference should be the last option, not the first. There are clear and easy ways to deal with holy spell usage, for everywhere! Should you ban someone in a fate because they were using holy and you couldn't see, no but that's exactly what you are advocating for.

Why stop there thou, ban healers if they have to chain heal tanks to keep them alive, because that's spamming, they can go run squadrons or trust to heal them instead, why play with other people, it's just an MMO where it's one of the core fundamentals.

---

If its a legit warning or request that has a foundation in ones actions - yes?
If my posts would include vulgar language, it would seem very reasonable to me if that got pointed out and I was asked to stop swearing so much.

There are such things as reasonable requests and reasonable behaviour - holy spam when there are mobs around is reasonable, thats what the skill is for. Holy spam in Limsa is not reasonable.
Requesting that someone stops swearing is reasonable - requesting that someone stops talking alltogether is not reasonable in most situations.

...and in this case: who knows how many people asked the person in question to please stop spamming holy and only got the GM involved after they got ignored?

Your "rights" will end when they start to deny other people's rights. That does not need ad hoc rules to deny the one thing you were doing. Legit things can be, and sometime are, abused. Legit use is a thing, abusing is another.

It is called "living in a community", you have basic rules that give you some freedom, and when you extend your freedom so far to reach the point you are limiting freedom of others, you're doing something wrong.

If you want your freedom in a game to be unlimited, solo games are your best place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vidu

If you just want to waste time, why cant you do that in a more remote location, where you can enjoy your holy-spam without inflicting it on others? Just teleport out of the city, walk a few steps and you'll find plenty of space where you can holy your heart out without annoying anyone.
I'm sorry, but spamming holy in a crowded city servers excatly one purpose: To annoy other people - otherwise any other place would serve just aswell, including a private chamber or apartment. But no one would see you there, right? That would be less fun, wouldnt it! This intent isnt very mature, assuming that you want people to leave by trying to drive them off with your holy-spam sounds outright malicious.

---

I also dislike holy as it blinds me, I have all my effects turned on, I main WHM. However your thinking isn't logically sound.

First off he was given a strike not a warning. If a cop pulls you over to give you a ticket and calls it a warning but still gives you the ticket, you got a ticket, not a warning. The consequences were immediately and spontaneous, no warning.

Second I don't believe you've heard of Occam's razor.

You seem to be hyper sensitive to the people around you, you care a lot what they're doing and how they feel, but not everyone's like you. It doesn't matter who what or where it is when I do something because I'm bored or want to have fun. I want to alleviate my boredom and I want to do it now. I'm not going to go to my apartment to go fulfill a spontaneous urge I suddenly have, I'm not going to give up my right to be myself because someone might get annoyed.
You ever move around and jump around in game with no rhyme or reason? Regardless of when or where you are? I do. This is the exact same thing.

If it helps you understand where I'm coming from your argument is paramount to : "She only puts on make up to attract guys and uses perfume to give people headaches." Given the evidence you don't know why they're doing it but they've been asked to stop once in the past in who knows what type of situation but because you can see it your immediate response is "She only puts on make up to attract guys and uses perfume to give people headaches." You see what I mean when I say you're attributing malicious intent to something that is most likely than not just pure laziness?

It's not that they put it on for themselves and their self esteem(alleviating boredom). It's not because they just like doing it. It's because they want to attract men(harass people, malicious intent), and that perfume? Why is she using it in public? Obviously because she wants to give people headaches(malicious intent). How dare she use perfume and makeup in public she should be doing that at home(giving up personal rights to appease strangers).

In this case it's actually worse since makeup is premeditated where as spamming holy is spontaneous. You also cannot turn off your nose to stop smelling perfume, but you can turn off your effects. It's also a lot less convenient to go home in real life than it is to teleport somewhere in ffxiv.

Just a slight edit, lack of evidence is not proof of evidence. We do not know they were asked to stop anything, we do not know any form of communication outside an immediate report was taken.

Also

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalaRu

Your "rights" will end when they start to deny other people's rights. That does not need ad hoc rules to deny the one thing you were doing. Legit things can be, and sometime are, abused. Legit use is a thing, abusing is another.

It is called "living in a community", you have basic rules that give you some freedom, and when you extend your freedom so far to reach the point you are limiting freedom of others, you're doing something wrong.

If you want your freedom in a game to be unlimited, solo games are your best place.

---

You don't have a right to not be offended. When you live in a community you can choose to abide by the rules they set out or be excommunicated. But this was the equivalent of calling the gestapo on someone because one day you decided to go outside and sit in the park and someone was dancing with music there ruining your peace and tranquility. It's a public space for a reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bsrking5

So just because someone gives a "warning" means it has to be followed?
I'm warning you to stop posting, it hurts my sensitive feelings...
GM interference should be the last option, not the first. There are clear and easy ways to deal with holy spell usage, for everywhere! Should you ban someone in a fate because they were using holy and you couldn't see, no but that's exactly what you are advocating for.

Why stop there thou, ban healers if they have to chain heal tanks to keep them alive, because that's spamming, they can go run squadrons or trust to heal them instead, why play with other people, it's just an MMO where it's one of the core fundamentals.

---

Depends on the warning and the situation...but that is the whole point of a warning, it has little weight or meaning if you don't follow through.

The problem is, you and a lot of other people are making assumptions on very little information.

Reason given to player: spamming
Action corroborated: spamming holy
Player has previous offense
GM to send more details via email
Context: player has not been forthcoming as far as I can see (even then, we are taking their word for it) and GM not present to give it

Additional points: spamming of abilities is common, this is this first since release in 2013 I've ever seen such an issue be a thing...so much so this doesn't seem to be a common thing.

So maybe...just maybe there's missing information here, because we only have a snippet of what happened and the only bit that paints the action in a bad light.

This is basically tabloid journalism. A snippet of a situation, not the whole picture and only the bit to elicit a reactive response.

What if, as myself and others have said, this was a part of the user harassing other players, like in my example, people RPing, which it can be very disruptive of? This was common when I used to RP on Gilgamesh and we'd be met with trolls every so often because some people seem to have problem with people who like RP.

Perhaps the GM could have been clearer if this is the case, but the GM's audience here is somebody who knows the context by which they were spamming, not the outside world scrutinising their log.

But it is a testament to how easily people can be manipulated and without even needing to lie, just by omitting parts of a story. The title says it all "holy is now a bannable spell", which is in itself misinformative, because even if we assume the events to paint the right picture in the log, even the title omits information (it should be for "spamming Holy" if we make that assumption). So I am very suspect that the claim is disingenuous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AsukaAsakura

"Spamming" an ability is not the same as spamming. Spamming is spamming a chat. Repeating something over and over again. Using an ability over and over again is not "spamming" in that sense. Or, are you saying I can now legit report WHM that holy "spam" during trash pulls... or Bards that spam quick nock because its "Spamming"

---

Stretching that a little bit now.

Dungeons =/= town or cities.

I don't mind if someone does an ability in town. Hell I've done it by accident when moving my mouse, and I apologize afterwards. I've seen groups of players in a city dancing and someone drops a Holy or a Scholar dome to make like a "dance sphere" and that is fine too. To me it's got contxt with it, ya know?

Being the people by Gridania aetheryte and using the same emote on a person, or going through every emote we have under Emote tab is a bit annoying. Especially when you have 2 or 3 players doing it in a large circle.

A person standing in the middle of the Limsa markets spamming Holy over and over and over is annoying as hell. Period. Those that do that do it for a reason, be it boredom or just to troll. And no, forcing hundreds of players to turn off cast graphics is a stupid thing to ask.

EDIT: Looked at the linked screenshot and I have to shake my head. Saying other people were doing it doesn't give leave for you to do it as well. AFAWK the others were reported as well. And for the love of Zodiak, NEVER go by what people in Discord say .... *eyeroll*

With them having a strike from before, whelp ... who knows why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QooEr

even if you somehow argue that spamming holy was wrong, the punishment is too harsh. a warning would've sufficed

---

I have to agree with this, but the player even commented in the screenshot they had one strike already. Which was more than likely the reason for the 3 day ban suspension.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AsukaAsakura

Playing music wouldn't be disturbing the peace anywhere I've seen it. I mean, they could even have a permit to play there. The point was, saying that a TOS was similar to legality was the analogy.

---

Where I live in Pennsylvania, there is a Noise Ordinance law : https://kineticsnoise.com/industrial...ordinance.html

Many places have them. In essence, you start blasting your 80s music after 10pm (usually) you gonna get in trouble. And no, having a license doesn't give you free reign to act like a jerk.

Can i report players who has a glamour that i dont like to look at?
Can i report and get banned someone for socializing with other people? I am lonely bugger and seeing people playing together makes me mad.
Can i report people playing songs the wrong way? Its also annoying and even disrespectful.
Can i ask where is the line ending this madness??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LolitaBansheeMeru

If your sitting there watching it your not being annoyed or harassed. you are choicing to sit there and to troll the person because your angry about w/e in real life you decide to sit there in the slot watching it then report because to really have a issue with something like that you must have to lack some kind of life in reality or something. Honestly why would you sit there if you find something annoying or harassing when you could move to diffrent spot or go to a diffrent town really your making a excuse out of flat out being lazy or just wanting to troll people who are having fun relaxing for a moment because you can't move your character 5 feet away really ...

---

Should be a reportable offense for long run on sentences ... by Zodiark, use a comma or sentence break more than once in a while.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nedkel

Can i report players who has a glamour that i dont like to look at?
Can i report and get banned someone for socializing with other people? I am lonely bugger and seeing people playing together makes me mad.
Can i report people playing songs the wrong way? Its also annoying and even disrespectful.
Can i ask where is the line ending this madness??

---

You can report whatever you want honestly. Nothing says the GMs/team will take them seriously or you won't get a strike for wrongful reporting either. But hey, you do you and knock yourself out.

reporting someone for using an in-game ability in one spot is pretty petty

actually getting punished for it is pretty stupid

I like how you guys continue to try and downplay it and compare it to crafting or melding. Deep down you know its wrong. You craft and meld in town. Theres the market board. You don't craft out in the field where theres monsters. You don't spam Holy in town because theres no monsters. Thus the only reason to spam Holy minutes on end is to annoy people intentionally, which is why they took action. He had the intent of annoying people with spam. You can waste your time reporting crafters, but the GM is just going to laugh at you and dismiss the case because INTENT is what matters when determining spam.

I think the worst thing that's come of this game is people using the term ban when they are in fact only suspended.

The twitter post to this problem really has some rude people in it. x) I would not want to be a GM of FF14 on there.

Also there has been cases of people being punished for spamming emotes. Its not surprising that it would be the same for such skills. Also big question: Why spam it? The only reason I can see that someone spams a blinding and loud skill in the middle of people is to annoy them.

I don't agree with it, but to be fair Holy is one annoying spell. I don't get the short cast time in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nedkel

Can i report players who has a glamour that i dont like to look at?
Can i report and get banned someone for socializing with other people? I am lonely bugger and seeing people playing together makes me mad.
Can i report people playing songs the wrong way? Its also annoying and even disrespectful.
Can i ask where is the line ending this madness??

---

Im guessing It ended long before all of these ridiculous scenarios.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edax

But why defend spamming?

---

But why encourage neuroticism? Overly sensitive hysteric snowflakes should be simply ignored, not encouraged. It's beyond me why SE finds it's necessary to act on such 'offenses'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fumofu

But why encourage neuroticism? Overly sensitive hysteric snowflakes should be simply ignored, not encouraged. It's beyond me why SE finds it's necessary to act on such 'offenses'.

---

Why are you offended by people being offended snowflake much?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VenKitsune

By this logic, then crafters are bannable by spamming "Failed to attach materia" in the chat log, or its a bannable offence to craft in general in cities.

---

Unlikely that attaching the materia is the player intentionally trying to be annoying. Yes we spam attacks in a fight because that serves a purpose, spamming holy in a city does not. The intent is clear when you spam holy in a city and people understand that, which is they opted to report that player because they are not going to stop otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fumofu

But why encourage neuroticism? Overly sensitive hysteric snowflakes should be simply ignored, not encouraged. It's beyond me why SE finds it's necessary to act on such 'offenses'.

---

If you try to annoy people and call them snowflakes when they react, then you hand the troll all the power they need. Intent is everything, players who don't want to put up with people intentionally trying to be annoying in cities aren't being "hysterical" as you claim. If you can't stand these players who don't want to be harassed then stop being a overly sensitive snowflake and just ignore them.

Honestly I don't understand some of the notifications that pop-up in the chat log to begin with. Like why do I need a notification whenever someone else crafts an item? Or even that I crafted the item? I already know that I crafted the item. Or when I or someone else gathers items. I can see when someone else levels up, that's a *somewhat* special occasion to be celebrated. Usually the first thing I do when starting a new character is edit out my chat log to display only /tell, /say, /party or any linkshells I have active.