Please reconsider removing job restrictions on glamour armor

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11-05-2019, 03:20 AM
Verlyn

Silhouette was a holdover from World of Warcraft because World of Warcraft had very prominent (often in-world) PVP and having a burst-heavy class like Thief mimic a warrior tank and get ignored, only to delete his aggressors would be a rather serious issue. FFXIV, however, is very different in basic design from WoW. For one, every single job has a distinct (and quite prominent) weapon type and animations. I am in no way at risk of mistaking the DRK for a NIN because I can see very clearly that big honkin' greatsword he is using.

I don't think Yoshi-P is intending to be misleading here, but I am pretty sure the actual reason is that the game has already invested heavily into an economy of duplicate gear set designs that removing glamour restrictions would create a logistical nightmare with regards to that economy and potentially mogstation items as well.
11-05-2019, 04:34 AM
linay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

I get job identity when it comes to weapons and artifact sets.

But where is the 'job identity' in most of the sets? Other than fending armor usually having a bit more armor on it than the other sets in a group, there really isn't any. Take the Nier sets that just released. Or Sky Rat or Shisui sets. Or the new pvp sets? Why is the aiming set just as armored as the fending set? Where is the job identity when paladins and gunbreakers have the same gear? Red mages have a very different aesthetic to them than black mages as well.

The job and/or role (it's not just about job) identity comes with familiarity. If I see a green Shisui set, it's likely a ninja.
11-05-2019, 05:26 AM
Kazrah

While I don't really mind the job restrictions on gear (mostly because I know how to work my way around it), I'm far more annoyed about gear restrictions added on crafter and gatherer gear past level 50 just because of wondering why that's still a thing.
11-05-2019, 05:36 AM
CazzT

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeth07

Yoshi-P: to answer about removing the job restrictions, unfortunately, we don’t intend to remove them. The reason is simple.

For players who have played other Final Fantasy titles, they’ll easily recognize these gear designs as a way to identify a particular job...You wouldn’t want to see someone carrying an axe casting black magic. You’d wonder: What the hell kind of game is this?

This cannot be an acceptable reason for the restriction with the current state of the game's armor selection.

That's a perfectly legitimate reason, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeth07

First off, the excuse about carrying an axe and casting black magic doesn't make sense. No one is talking about glamouring job weapons. I feel like we all understand THAT wouldn't make sense. So it is a horrible example for why the restriction is in place.

It would not make sense to see a Warrior or Paladin in Black Mage garb, either. Think past the words written to the context of what's being said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeth07

Second, if they are going to use the old excuse that the "gear designs" are meant to "identify a particular job", they have long since thrown that out the window with the glamour options we have received. Particularly the joke ones.

Except they haven't. Adding additional armor into the game that anyone can use does not change the reality that the class armor is designed around the class identity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeth07

Reasons Restrictions Should Be Removed

1 = We already have actual job swapped gear models/recolors
2 = NPCs have mixed gear "glamour" already
3 = Special NPC outfits are no longer "unique" to them
4 = Make "Artifact" armor and equivalents the exceptions5 = Joke glamours exist

1 - Not exactly. There are armors that are similar, but still distinctly different. There are no armor sets that look like PLD, WAR, DRG, WHM, AST, etc class sets that other classes can wear. If you're referring to raid drops, those are not "class sets".

2 - NPCs are not players. NPCs have abilities that players do not, and likely never will, have. PLD is a good example. PLD does not have a massive frontal cone attack, but there are two PLD NPCs that use just such an attack. NPCs have and get things players do not. This is not an acceptable reason to remove restrictions.

3 - Looking like a character does not require being that character's job. If you wear the same outfit as your friend, you don't suddenly become what they are. Not an acceptable reason to remove restrictions.

4 - I'm unsure what you think class sets are if not the Artifact gear sets.

5 - Joke glamours were never designed to be class/job specific. Not an acceptable reason to remove restrictions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeth07

These are acceptable representations of:
"a way to identify a particular job" - Yoshi-P 2019

None of those were designed as class/job sets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeth07

https://i.imgur.com/o4SBQaL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gHG88us.jpg

An armor design that is not tied to any specific class/job. It is tied to a specific NPC. There is a difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeth07

But this is not acceptable

https://i.imgur.com/8oWvPcx.png

What's wrong with this? It's an NPC, not a player. It's not even an iconic NPC, in fact. This is standard practice in MMOs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeth07

I feel like I made a reasonable explanation and gave plenty of examples for why glamour job restrictions on armor should be removed.

So FFXIV team, please remove job restrictions on glamour armor already, it's almost 2020.

But you haven't given any legitimate or acceptable reasons for the restrictions to be removed. You've cited examples that have nothing to do with class/job, which completely ignores what YoshiP said.

There's no reason to remove the restrictions on class gear. It would make no sense, lore or otherwise, to allow a Warrior or Paladin or Dragoon or Whitemage to run around in Black Mage or Ninja or Bard or Scholar garb.
11-05-2019, 05:49 AM
JoHighnes

I always found the excuse a bit lackluster. You are not leveling 18 different characters, you are one character leveling several jobs. If you are a level 50 black mage, and thus can wear level 50 black mage clothes, you shouldn't be unable to glam them just because you are currently holding a sword in your hand. You are still a level 50 black mage imo. (i.e. let us glam anything we can equip on any of our leveled jobs)
11-05-2019, 06:56 AM
MsQi

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

There's no reason to remove the restrictions on class gear. It would make no sense, lore or otherwise, to allow a Warrior or Paladin or Dragoon or Whitemage to run around in Black Mage or Ninja or Bard or Scholar garb.

1. A person can put on clothes, etc.
2. A lot of the gear restricted to particular jobs is not gear designed specifically for that/those job(s).
3. Your character is not only one Job/Class.
4. The glamour and gear system does not support Job/Class identity. There are 18 jobs and 11 crafter and gatherer classes, but only 15 glamour plate. Any one item can only have one glamour applied and many jobs/classes end up sharing gear. You cant even have multiples of most high end gear if you wanted to. If you have a glamour that is exclusive to Red Mage when you switch to Black Mage you have the generic look. You can only apply plates in certain areas.

Quote:

What's wrong with this? It's an NPC, not a player. It's not even an iconic NPC, in fact. This is standard practice in MMOs.

Ok Yda and Papalymo. Iconic characters, specifically identified as a Pugilist and a Thaumaturge. Both wear plate gear.
11-05-2019, 07:06 AM
Bright-Flower

Quote:

Originally Posted by linay

The job and/or role (it's not just about job) identity comes with familiarity. If I see a green Shisui set, it's likely a ninja.

WHat aobut sets like sky rat that are dyable? WIth the new pvp armor if you die the tank one or the aiming one they won't be distinguishable at a distance. We have distinct weapon types for that. Not to mention all the glamor pieces that aren't tied to any particular job manage to not somehow break the game.
11-05-2019, 08:38 AM
Alucard135

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsQi

1. A person can put on clothes, etc.
2. A lot of the gear restricted to particular jobs is not gear designed specifically for that/those job(s).
3. Your character is not only one Job/Class.
4. The glamour and gear system does not support Job/Class identity. There are 18 jobs and 11 crafter and gatherer classes, but only 15 glamour plate. Any one item can only have one glamour applied and many jobs/classes end up sharing gear. You cant even have multiples of most high end gear if you wanted to. If you have a glamour that is exclusive to Red Mage when you switch to Black Mage you have the generic look. You can only apply plates in certain areas.

Ok Yda and Papalymo. Iconic characters, specifically identified as a Pugilist and a Thaumaturge. Both wear plate gear.

Add to that, Yoshi P in an interview said that if players wanted a certain gear for glamour (not job ones) they should request it and they will make one for it. That's why we got lots of lvl1 gear for glamour in Eureka that were role limited. As I said before, I think to overcome the issue of recoding the glamour system, they could instead provide us with means of either converting the gear we want into level 1 replicas that are open for all classes (probably least stressful on their servers), or means to buy replicas of our gear.
11-05-2019, 08:44 AM
Dogempire

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

Snip.

Lore reasons is an extremely lazy excuse to not add something widely requested, sure lore is important but the fact of the matter is that a majority of the fanbase doesn't care about the lore to the extent that they would support denying changing current content so that it benefits other players and allows them to get more enjoyment out of the game simply because the lore doesn't allow it. Not only that, but I don't recall ever seeing something lore related say that it's impossible to glamour white mage robes over machinist armor, I mean, it's glamour.

Plus, even if lore was the reason you can't mix armors from different classes, you can always add some new quest or something lore related that retcons that restriction somehow. I mean if we didn't have the echo I'm pretty sure the vast majority of us wouldn't have made it to level 50 and would be permadead somewhere in Tam Tara or Stone Vigil if we started restricting the game by only allowing things that are lore friendly.

Anyways, my point is that lore isn't a good reason for not lifting glamour restrictions. Most people here are only advocating for armor glamour restriction removal anyways, not weapon.
11-05-2019, 09:53 AM
CazzT

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsQi

1. A person can put on clothes, etc.
2. A lot of the gear restricted to particular jobs is not gear designed specifically for that/those job(s).
3. Your character is not only one Job/Class.
4. The glamour and gear system does not support Job/Class identity. There are 18 jobs and 11 crafter and gatherer classes, but only 15 glamour plate. Any one item can only have one glamour applied and many jobs/classes end up sharing gear. You cant even have multiples of most high end gear if you wanted to. If you have a glamour that is exclusive to Red Mage when you switch to Black Mage you have the generic look. You can only apply plates in certain areas.

1 - Saying a person can change clothes is irrelevant to removing restrictions.
2 - Which I addressed.
3 - Completely irrelevant.
4 - The number of glamour plates is irrelevant to the design of the job gear. Glamour plates didn't even exist until Stormblood. Another irrelevant point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsQi

Ok Yda and Papalymo. Iconic characters, specifically identified as a Pugilist and a Thaumaturge. Both wear plate gear.

Still NPCs. The rules for NPC gear are not the same for job gear for players. This has always been the case, and is the case in pretty much every MMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogempire

Lore reasons is an extremely lazy excuse to not add something widely requested

For something that is centered around the lore of a job, it's not an excuse, it's a fundamental reason for keeping it the way it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogempire

sure lore is important but the fact of the matter is that a majority of the fanbase doesn't care about the lore to the extent that they would support denying changing current content so that it benefits other players and allows them to get more enjoyment out of the game simply because the lore doesn't allow it.

So you support throwing out lore in favor of what a supposed majority want? A big reason why FFXIV is so highly praised is because the devs do not sacrifice lore in that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogempire

Plus, even if lore was the reason you can't mix armors from different classes, you can always add some new quest or something lore related that retcons that restriction somehow.

This says everything I need to know. Retconning is the worst thing a writer can do. Especially for "gameplay" reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogempire

Anyways, my point is that lore isn't a good reason for not lifting glamour restrictions. Most people here are only advocating for armor glamour restriction removal anyways, not weapon.

When lore is a fundamental part of the jobs' gear aesthetics, it's a perfectly valid reason for not lifting the restrictions.

Consider: When you see Final Fantasy art, regardless of which title it's from, you can quickly pick out jobs/classes by how they look. What you, and others in this thread, are asking for is to throw that away. It's one of the defining characteristics of the entire franchise.
11-05-2019, 10:04 AM
Jybril

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoHighnes

I always found the excuse a bit lackluster. You are not leveling 18 different characters, you are one character leveling several jobs. If you are a level 50 black mage, and thus can wear level 50 black mage clothes, you shouldn't be unable to glam them just because you are currently holding a sword in your hand. You are still a level 50 black mage imo. (i.e. let us glam anything we can equip on any of our leveled jobs)

I get that but if people are so on with gear restrictions, I'd at least let them keep the iconic AF gear locked onto them.
I personally wouldn't be upset if those were unlocked but still. (Unless you meant just mage gear in general nvm this.)

My things is, the excuse he used "To differentiate peoples Job/Role" makes me feel like he's calling us all idiots.
"Hey that guy is wearing a dress...I think he's a healer but he has a sword?"
That whole spiel is immediately thrown out the window when we are sitting here with snowmen and frog suits.
Not only that, remember the "ROG AF"? Well that's available for doggone anyone now, under the name of Pagos.
So now what?

But yeah, I rather him just go on and say he doesn't feel like doing it than this crap to make us look dumb lol.
11-05-2019, 10:09 AM
MsQi

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

1 - Saying a person can change clothes is irrelevant to removing restrictions.
2 - Which I addressed.
3 - Completely irrelevant.
4 - The number of glamour plates is irrelevant to the design of the job gear. Glamour plates didn't even exist until Stormblood. Another irrelevant point.

Still NPCs. The rules for NPC gear are not the same for job gear for players. This has always been the case, and is the case in pretty much every MMO.

1. entirely relevant. There is no lore that keeps a person from wearing stuff they own.
2. and what you said supported no restrictions. Since they aren't designed for jobs they shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted.
3. Completely relevant
4. Entirely relevant. The systems in place are contrary to what they claim is important.

What are these rules you made up? You think lore keeps me from putting on tank armor when I'm a mage, but it doesn't keep NPCs from doing it? They live in the same world.
11-05-2019, 10:19 AM
rachcouture

This has always been one of my biggest gripes with the game. Why can't I wear all the pretty caster outfits as a healer? Why can't my BRD or DNC equip all the decorative, unarmored melee DPS gear (i.e. Yafaemi) that barely makes sense for their intended role in the first place? Why can't I wear my most flattering robes on PLD, the battlemage job? Why do I need to keep multiple versions of my favorite jewelry post-Stormblood for glamouring on different jobs when they all look the same? Even now it's frustrating seeing that my favorite looks from the Nier raid are all for jobs I have no interest in playing.

Class identity hasn't been a valid excuse from day 1 of glamours and the birth of tanking in bikinis or moogle suits. Artifact gear isn't an excuse, either.

The only reason I can think of people not understanding why this is such a sore spot for so much of the playerbase is that they're DPS mains, the roles that always tend to get the absolute best-looking glamours in the game.
11-05-2019, 10:26 AM
CazzT

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsQi

1. entirely relevant. There is no lore that keeps a person from wearing stuff they own.
2. and what you said supported no restrictions. Since they aren't designed for jobs they shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted.
3. Completely relevant
4. Entirely relevant. The systems in place are contrary to what they claim is important.

1 - Nothing is preventing you from wearing gear for your jobs that is not designed for that specific job. Black Mage garb for Black Mage. I'm not referring to raid/tome gear. I have already made that clear.
2 - It did not support no restrictions. Read it again.
3 - Incorrect.
4 - They are not. Being able to wear a different piece of armor does not invalidate the restrictions. They are not reliant on each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsQi

What are these rules you made up?

Not liking reality does not mean someone made up rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsQi

You think lore keeps me from putting on tank armor when I'm a mage, but it doesn't keep NPCs from doing it? They live in the same world.

You refuse to accept that rules for NPCs are different from rules for players. You completely ignored my point that NPCs have skills/spells that players do not for the same job. The same goes for gear for NPCs. You're free to not like it, but it's still the reality of the situation. And it's not something that's going to change. And before you twist my words into saying that restrictions will never be lifted, I'm referring to how NPCs are geared.

You also entirely ignored my point about it being a defining characteristic of the franchise.
11-05-2019, 10:34 AM
Aurida

It's not that they don't understand, it's that they're staying willfully ignorant because they think that the 1 to 4 job sets per class in the game somehow make 'job/role identity' more important than the concept of player freedom.

Hey, news flash for ya! The iconic red mage gear doesn't somehow become not a red mage outfit if someone who's not a red mage is wearing it! You still get to look at the person wearing the red mage set and think 'oh neat, they're wearing the red mage set, that looks really cool' only now there's 28 classes that can access the gear instead of just 1.
11-05-2019, 10:44 AM
myahele

I wonder why SE allowed this in China?

https://68.media.tumblr.com/acb43d4a...2lso3_1280.png
https://68.media.tumblr.com/cbfe754d...2lso4_1280.png
11-05-2019, 10:49 AM
CazzT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurida

It's not that they don't understand, it's that they're staying willfully ignorant because they think that the 1 to 4 job sets per class in the game somehow make 'job/role identity' more important than the concept of player freedom.

Too much player freedom and you lose what makes a game good. There is some willful ignorance happening here, but not from the people you're accusing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurida

Hey, news flash for ya! The iconic red mage gear doesn't somehow become not a red mage outfit if someone who's not a red mage is wearing it!

Actually, that's exactly what it means. It's no longer a Red Mage outfit if anyone can wear it. At that point, it's just another outfit anyone can wear. The fact that you acknowledge it's a Red Mage outfit, instead of just referring to it as a generic outfit, proves that.
11-05-2019, 10:51 AM
rachcouture

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

Too much player freedom and you lose what makes a game good.

In what way is this relevant to cosmetics? Glamours don't affect the game's rules, and self-expression has always been one of the biggest aspects of an MMO.
11-05-2019, 10:52 AM
MsQi

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

snip

I don't know what your stance on this is because you are constantly contradicting yourself. The main focus of this topic is removing restrictions on NON artifact gear. Artifact gear is usually considered the gear you get as part of your job quests at 50,60,70 etc.
11-05-2019, 10:55 AM
rachcouture

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsQi

I don't know what your stance on this is because you are constantly contradicting yourself. The main focus of this topic is removing restrictions on NON artifact gear. Artifact gear is usually considered the gear you get as part of your job quests at 50,60,70 etc.

I'm okay with artifact gear being lessened to role restrictions, even. There's no reason I shouldn't be able to wear my dyable Constellation top on WHM or SCH. It's a bejeweled summer dress; nothing about that screams AST at all. Same with the Seventh Heaven outfit being nothing more than a couture gown.
11-05-2019, 11:02 AM
CazzT

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsQi

I don't know what your stance on this is because you are constantly contradicting yourself.

Then you're not reading what I'm writing. I have not contradicted myself at any point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsQi

The main focus of this topic is removing restrictions on NON artifact gear. Artifact gear is usually considered the gear you get as part of your job quests at 50,60,70 etc.

And that is the gear I am referring, job gear. But everyone keeps blurring the line on this, which is why I'm pointing out that the restrictions should not be lifted. If you had actually been reading what I've written, you would know what gear I'm referring to. And you would also see that I am not contradicting myself because of that.
11-05-2019, 11:17 AM
MsQi

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

Then you're not reading what I'm writing. I have not contradicted myself at any point.

And that is the gear I am referring, job gear. But everyone keeps blurring the line on this, which is why I'm pointing out that the restrictions should not be lifted. If you had actually been reading what I've written, you would know what gear I'm referring to. And you would also see that I am not contradicting myself because of that.

you said "There's no reason to remove the restrictions on CLASS gear. " You argue against the OP who has already said he wants Job gear (artifact) to remain restricted.

EDIT:

Yda, Popalymo, and J'olhmyn are not wearing Artifact gear. Maybe you made some bad word choices, but your position is confusing me.
11-05-2019, 11:27 AM
Aurida

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

Too much player freedom and you lose what makes a game good.

Weird hill to die on, but what can I say but 'bruh' to the idea that less creative options is somehow a good thing?

'Generic outfits that anyone can wear' like that the entire series history and representation vanishes the exact moment you can put a feathered hat on someone not using the right job stone. Again, you could just do this freely in FF11 and I don't particularly recall anyone complaining so loud then. If you don't like the idea of putting the RDM outfit on a non-RDM, then... don't! Just like with every other glamour in the game.

Now... If you're going to go on to claim that seeing OTHER people in it damages your sense of immersion or connection to the job lore... are we even playing the same game at this point?
11-05-2019, 04:31 PM
JoHighnes

Quote:

Originally Posted by myahele

I wonder why SE allowed this in China?
https://68.media.tumblr.com/acb43d4a...2lso3_1280.png

I think is one of the the real reasons for keeping the glamour system the way it is. If they did change it, it would be hard to sell job locked gear as glams on mog station. It would also be slapping all people who already bought it.
11-05-2019, 05:24 PM
Iscah

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoHighnes

I think is one of the the real reasons for keeping the glamour system the way it is. If they did change it, it would be hard to sell job locked gear as glams on mog station. It would also be slapping all people who already bought it.

China aside (being managed independently of the normal game), since when have they sold job-locked gear on the Mog Station? It's all novelty gear and character cosplays.
11-05-2019, 08:23 PM
Duelle

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

That's a perfectly legitimate reason, though.

Considering Yoshida's silly example involves weapons when the OP and the entire topic revolves around armor, it's not a legitimate reason. It's a poor attempt at deflection to avoid addressing the question head on by presenting a ridiculous extreme that is not even what is being asked for.

Quote:

It would not make sense to see a Warrior or Paladin in Black Mage garb, either. Think past the words written to the context of what's being said.

It sounds to me like you're talking about artifact sets, AKA the thing the OP is saying should remain class/job-restricted. If a tank wants to glamour the Sky Pirate's Coat of Casting or the Plague Bringer's Mask, I say let them. If a NIN or MNK wants to glamour the Demon set of Aiming, I say let them. If a healer wants to glamour the Replica Heavy Allagan Armor, I say let them.

Quote:

Except they haven't. Adding additional armor into the game that anyone can use does not change the reality that the class armor is designed around the class identity.

Considering the sets that look exactly the same with a different color scheme and reused armor designs that were used by other classes, this isn't a strong argument.

Quote:

1 - Not exactly. There are armors that are similar, but still distinctly different.

Aside from odds and ends, there's how each piece reacts to color (Gazelleskin Coat of healing vs Atrociraptor Coat of Casting), which does not create enough of a distinction. In the end, some sets are reused and shared between jobs under different names.

Quote:

2 - NPCs are not players. NPCs have abilities that players do not, and likely never will, have. PLD is a good example. PLD does not have a massive frontal cone attack, but there are two PLD NPCs that use just such an attack. NPCs have and get things players do not. This is not an acceptable reason to remove restrictions.

Skills and aesthetics have little to do with each other. I don't see people clamoring to get Water of the Seventh Dawn or Death of the Seventh Dawn despite those being usable by Y'shtola and Urianger, or Swashbuckler from the tank role questline (though I sure as hell do miss having Rage of Halone), or Enfire from the Heavensward PLD questline. It's bizarre that you consider NPCs dangling in front of players something they can't have as an invalid reason to ease the glamour restrictions.

Quote:

3 - Looking like a character does not require being that character's job.

Which has nothing to do with the discussion on glamours.

Quote:

5 - Joke glamours were never designed to be class/job specific. Not an acceptable reason to remove restrictions.

He mentions joke glamours because joke glamours spit in the face of any argument for specific aesthetics and/or restrictions. When your tank can show up in a pig costume or naked, any pretenses of specific aesthetics become moot because anything else (like allowing said tank to glamour casting, scouting or striking pieces) is a LOT less egregious by comparison.

Quote:

What's wrong with this? It's an NPC, not a player. It's not even an iconic NPC, in fact. This is standard practice in MMOs.

And if people want to dress like that NPC, they should be able to.
11-05-2019, 08:29 PM
JoHighnes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iscah

China aside.

This was not China aside though. If they implement it in the game it would be a world wide change. I can't imagine them maintaining different code bases for different regions.

Edit: Granted, it does seem like the China servers have some layer of extra maintenance as they lag behind and are maintained by another company, similar to how many Korean mmos are released in the west. This would still be a too big difference in code to reasonably keep separated, but it does mean there may be (depending on what revenue they get from china) less of a motivation.
11-06-2019, 02:16 AM
Dogempire

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

Consider: When you see Final Fantasy art, regardless of which title it's from, you can quickly pick out jobs/classes by how they look. What you, and others in this thread, are asking for is to throw that away. It's one of the defining characteristics of the entire franchise.

Ah yes, because when I see a super buff Roe in a bikini and a Frog head I think "That's definitely a summoner"

We have a glamour system for a reason, and that reason is because it adds another dimension of fun to the game by letting you pick and choose your own custom outfits based on the gear you have available to you.
11-06-2019, 05:04 AM
linay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogempire

Ah yes, because when I see a super buff Roe in a bikini and a Frog head I think "That's definitely a summoner"

No, you'd think that's someone in a bikini and a frog head. The existence of such types of (all classes) glamour does not change the fact that there are gears that are associated with certain jobs/roles. Again, a green Shisui set is associated with Ninja regardless if you think that's a suitable gear for Ninja. When you see someone wearing that gear, you can know that's a ninja unless you've misidentified the gear.
11-06-2019, 05:22 AM
Alucard135

Quote:

Originally Posted by linay

Again, a green Shisui set is associated with Ninja regardless if you think that's a suitable gear for Ninja. When you see someone wearing that gear, you can know that's a ninja unless you've misidentified the gear.

I don't play the other classes a lot to know which gear is for which class, so this is not an iconic gear for that class. But I can certainly identify the artifact gear with ease, since it has features that are linked to each job. Furthermore, they can easily add a dyeable shisui gear that would look exactly like the NIN one and it wouldn't create any problem.
11-06-2019, 05:57 AM
linay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alucard135

I don't play the other classes a lot to know which gear is for which class, so this is not an iconic gear for that class. But I can certainly identify the artifact gear with ease, since it has features that are linked to each job. Furthermore, they can easily add a dyeable shisui gear that would look exactly like the NIN one and it wouldn't create any problem.

That all comes down to familiarity. I associate Warrior with sword before I play FFXIV. Now I associate it with axe. I also now associate green Shisui set with Ninja after being familiar with it. They could make an identical set that's not for Ninja, but maybe that's why they shouldn't so that people can associate it with Ninja. And as far as I know, they've never done that. They reused designs, but changed the color or modified the design a bit.
11-06-2019, 06:35 AM
Dogempire

Quote:

Originally Posted by linay

No, you'd think that's someone in a bikini and a frog head. The existence of such types of (all classes) glamour does not change the fact that there are gears that are associated with certain jobs/roles. Again, a green Shisui set is associated with Ninja regardless if you think that's a suitable gear for Ninja. When you see someone wearing that gear, you can know that's a ninja unless you've misidentified the gear.

Let me rephrase what I said.

Class identity is a moot point when people are running around with bikinis, frog heads, moogle heads, ghost outfits, ridiculous hairstyles, demon horns and fake facial hair as literally any class in the game.

Nobody cares that green Shisui stuff is associated with ninjas. You can literally examine the person or check their name in the party list if you have no idea what class they are, and your reasoning is poor and bordering on the insane for not wanting glamour restrictions on armor to be removed.

Nothing is stopping you from wearing robes that make you look like your class, but these glamour restrictions are stopping people from using the pvp gear that they spent time grinding for on any class other than the one it's associated with, even though there's zero reason it should be restricted.
11-06-2019, 06:37 AM
Alucard135

Quote:

Originally Posted by linay

That all comes down to familiarity. I associate Warrior with sword before I play FFXIV. Now I associate it with axe. I also now associate green Shisui set with Ninja after being familiar with it. They could make an identical set that's not for Ninja, but maybe that's why they shouldn't so that people can associate it with Ninja. And as far as I know, they've never done that. They reused designs, but changed the color or modified the design a bit.

But this a "you" issue. You only tied the gear to NIN, by chance not by its design nature. The gear just happened to be the one worn by ninja, and had the color green simply because the developer decided to use that for it. Unless there's a really hidden reason why the gear being green is a direct indication for NIN other than "it happened to be".

WAR in XI had an axe as a weapon. That's why a lot of FF fans that played it, tie the axe to WAR. And that's something Yoshi P himself said about why he doesn't want to remove job restriction, which is fine.
"For players who have played other Final Fantasy titles, they’ll easily recognize these gear designs as a way to identify a particular job...You wouldn’t want to see someone carrying an axe casting black magic. You’d wonder: What the hell kind of game is this?"

So its not a matter of "you got used to a certain gear being worn by this class". I got used to seeing the plague doctor coat on casters and healers. Now DoH classes can wear the coat.
11-06-2019, 06:38 AM
Dogempire

Honestly if anything they can start by removing the class restrictions on PvP gear considering how the stormblood and shadowbringers stuff is literally meant to be glamour items yet they're still class restricted for some reason.
11-06-2019, 07:48 AM
Losara

I'd rather they keep the system as is but add in a way to unlock glamours permanently once you have obtained an equipment. E.g. Obtained gear and can toss gear away but still be able to glamour item to other equipment. This would help free up inventory space.

If the Glamour Dresser eventually worked in this way it would be a step closer to the ideal of being able to glamour any item any time anywhere.
11-06-2019, 08:17 AM
Iscah

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoHighnes

This was not China aside though. If they implement it in the game it would be a world wide change. I can't imagine them maintaining different code bases for different regions.

Edit: Granted, it does seem like the China servers have some layer of extra maintenance as they lag behind and are maintained by another company, similar to how many Korean mmos are released in the west. This would still be a too big difference in code to reasonably keep separated, but it does mean there may be (depending on what revenue they get from china) less of a motivation.

But it is China-only. There was a post about them implementing it ages ago. The Chinese and Korean versions of the game have their own independent control over what items get added - it's where a lot of the MS-exclusive items originated from, and there's still at least one outfit we don't have.
11-06-2019, 08:28 AM
Enthy

I'd really love to see the glamour restrictions removed. I'm a casual player. All I really care to do in this game is collect all the pretty gear and it makes me sad that I cant mix and match and wear what I want on my main jobs (SCH and WAR). I would gladly level MNK if it allowed me to wear the almost always awesome looking striking gear on my SCH or WAR. In the mean time I'll just walk around town on jobs I don't actually play so i can look cool :cool: then switch to SCH when my Duty Finder pops and get some more potato sack dresses I'll never wear! :/
11-06-2019, 12:40 PM
linay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogempire

Let me rephrase what I said.

Class identity is a moot point when people are running around with bikinis, frog heads, moogle heads, ghost outfits, ridiculous hairstyles, demon horns and fake facial hair as literally any class in the game.

It's not because not every gear has to be associated with a class/role. So that's a moot point.

Quote:

Nobody cares that green Shisui stuff is associated with ninjas.

Somebody is not nobody. Just because you don't, doesn't mean all others don't. So that's a moot point.

Quote:

You can literally examine the person or check their name in the party list if you have no idea what class they are,

You can, but you don't have too, that's how that works.

Quote:

and your reasoning is poor and bordering on the insane for not wanting glamour restrictions on armor to be removed.

I'm actually in favor of removing glamour restriction (as long as it comes with removal of loot restriction). I just think your reasoning about bikini and whatnot is poor.

Quote:

Nothing is stopping you from wearing robes that make you look like your class,

If everyone can look like you, nothing looks like you anymore, so you cannot wear something that looks like you unless you want to restrict yourself to artifact gear.

Quote:

but these glamour restrictions are stopping people from using the pvp gear that they spent time grinding for on any class other than the one it's associated with, even though there's zero reason it should be restricted.

Or they can play those class...or wait for alternative gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alucard135

But this a "you" issue. You only tied the gear to NIN, by chance not by its design nature. The gear just happened to be the one worn by ninja, and had the color green simply because the developer decided to use that for it. Unless there's a really hidden reason why the gear being green is a direct indication for NIN other than "it happened to be".

WAR in XI had an axe as a weapon. That's why a lot of FF fans that played it, tie the axe to WAR. And that's something Yoshi P himself said about why he doesn't want to remove job restriction, which is fine.
"For players who have played other Final Fantasy titles, they’ll easily recognize these gear designs as a way to identify a particular job...You wouldn’t want to see someone carrying an axe casting black magic. You’d wonder: What the hell kind of game is this?"

So its not a matter of "you got used to a certain gear being worn by this class". I got used to seeing the plague doctor coat on casters and healers. Now DoH classes can wear the coat.

Well, it is a "you" or a "me" issue. That's what glamour is, just people's preference, not something set in stone.
11-13-2019, 01:37 AM
Alucard135

It seems they've gone with the replica route. All the sky pirate gear now have LVL1 replicas.
01-15-2020, 11:54 AM
Aurida

Time to give this a bump in the light of the non-worldwide servers giving job-agnostic versions of the DoH/DoL 70 armors!

It doesn't need to be a super involved process at all, and adding armors that are already craftable in-game to the mog station is basically complete bunk, so please just make it so that you can freely glamour and use the appearance of any piece of equipment that you can use on any job you have levelled.

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