SMN Why don't we hear about egi glamours anymore?

I think a decent rework would be to chnage the Egi system into Demi-(insert respective pets here) and have the pets work as they are for ARC and SCH. for starters have a Demi-Garuda, Demi-Titan and Demi-Ifrit, but I'm not certain how they work differently from the Egis (and more specifically if they need a Trance to work, cause if so it might complicate the leveling experience)

I would also try to chnage the DOTs to be more flavorful and keep the poison theme on SCH. For example have Bio be Ramuh-themed, Miasma be Shiva (or Garuda)-themed and have another for Leviathan.

From there we can make retrofit the egi glamour into fitting the Demi summons with new carbuncle forms for Bahamut and Phoenix (Moonstone and Sunstone) as well as new colors for the existing carbuncles (Amethyst, Sapphire and Aquamarine). Other forms would be the Eden versions of the 2.X primals.

Lastly would be a Trance for Shiva is she doesn't go into the demi glamour system, as there would be personal reasons why the WoL would invoke the Lady of Frost much like there would be one for Phoenix.

Still hoping, as always, for SE to at least mention this again

What I really dislike about SMN (apart from removing the whole pet aspect) is the fact that I can't choose whether to summon Phoenix or Bahamut. Really annoys me.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

What I really dislike about SMN (apart from removing the whole pet aspect) is the fact that I can't choose whether to summon Phoenix or Bahamut. Really annoys me.

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Well that's part of the gameplay. They do totally different things so they're part of a rotation

Is there an upcoming Q&A live letter where we can ask about it?

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Originally Posted by OvernightSiren

Well that's part of the gameplay. They do totally different things so they're part of a rotation

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No they don't. Phoenix is just a Bahamut reskin with bigger damage, two upgraded attacks that only you can use while its out, and a regen slapped onto it. If they did totally different things, that's more reason to have a decision to pick from the two.

Eventually they'll have another Demi summon added in the next expansion and if they keep the "Bahamut> Phoenix> New Demi summon" formula, the rotation would get so long and bloated.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

No they don't. Phoenix is just a Bahamut reskin with bigger damage, two upgraded attacks that only you can use while its out, and a regen slapped onto it. If they did totally different things, that's more reason to have a decision to pick from the two.

Eventually they'll have another Demi summon added in the next expansion and if they keep the "Bahamut> Phoenix> New Demi summon" formula, the rotation would get so long and bloated.

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Not really. The new Demi-Summon would replace Summon Bahamut after FBT is triggered and would occupy the current dead space between FBT and DWT just fine. Where I think it gets problematic is with the Egi management long term. Either they’re gonna see that upgrade they need to get or Bahamut will be merged with DWT properly next expansion, with the other likely to follow suit at some point. What I’m expecting come 6.0 is the merging of Enkindle abilities as well as an overhaul of Egi Assaults and Ruin IV to make them integrate better into Demi-Summons and Trances.

What I am hoping for is either Demi-Alexander giving us access to Punishing Heat, Divine Spear, and Mega Holy, or an upgrade to Demi-Bahamut with proper Akh Morn spam (with the appropriate tuning) and Morn Afahs.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Not really. The new Demi-Summon would replace Summon Bahamut after FBT is triggered and would occupy the current dead space between FBT and DWT just fine. Where I think it gets problematic is with the Egi management long term. Either they’re gonna see that upgrade they need to get or Bahamut will be merged with DWT properly next expansion, with the other likely to follow suit at some point. What I’m expecting come 6.0 is the merging of Enkindle abilities as well as an overhaul of Egi Assaults and Ruin IV to make them integrate better into Demi-Summons and Trances.

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...That's if they actually decide to do that. I'm cautious they wouldn't since they go backwards with the feedback each start of the expansion.

i'd take some warring triad ones (zurv/ifrit, sophia/garuda, sephirot/titan), certainly. OP's got a solid handle on the fitting options, i'd say

(late to the party and not really going for a discussion on class balance in a thread about aesthetics--the theoretical that they are pruned from the class is a whole separate matter likewise unrelated to this thread)

Id take fixing the job so that everything works together over another demi. Especially when the demis themselves are still littered with bugs.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

...That's if they actually decide to do that. I'm cautious they wouldn't since they go backwards with the feedback each start of the expansion.

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The biggest reason they need to address Ruin IV and Egi assaults is the fact they collide with Demi-Summon rotations. If they cut too far into the windows where you can use EAs and need to trim buttons to make room for new abilities then the natural thing to do is merge Enkindles and give Demi-Summons EA abilities. I agree it’s contingent on them adding another Demi-Summon but I don’t see them not doing that just because that’s SMN’s aesthetic appeal. Adding AoE variants of Bahamut/Phoenix that muck with their (relatively) stable tuning of AoE burst also doesn’t make sense to me.

I think the most logical thing for them to do would be to merge Demi- Bahamut and DWT and rework the rotation to be that of FBT - it would cut down on the multiple different systems and offer some kind of consistency. We would then just make Deathflare the Second attack. Could even have it change R3 to R4 and then remove its dependency of EGI attacks while also giving room for a further Demi/ trance. The problem i think with summoner is that it has too many individual systems that by themselves are good, but do not interlink with the other aspects of the job, thus we get locked out of major parts of our rotations at different points. Making these more stable, while providing room for an additional summon I think would play into the feel and lore of the job, while keeping the "evoker" aesthetic that the job has had since its inception. Personally, though i know its an unpopular opinion, i would be happy at this point to lose dots and Aetherflow and instead double down on the trance and summon mechanics. Somthing along the vein of a demonology warlock in wow (as its similar thematically) I am not saying a carbon copy of it, just look at the good parts and integrate them into the summoner while retaining its key features and identity. I really would hate for them to remove Demi's, egi's or trance as i feel these are the core of the job itself.

So I heard that Yoshi-P said recently that egi glamours were still on the development table.

He mentioned egis he didnt mention glamours. Could be glam could be a change

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

So I heard that Yoshi-P said recently that egi glamours were still on the development table.

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Theyve literally been saying this for six damn years. It's just more bait on the hook to keep the fish interested. I honestly believe there is absolutely ZERO work being done on it, as weve been promised more Egi Glamour since freaking 2.1.

Recently a LL rewatch came out and according to it, they are working on it, but they haven't decided on execution or something fundamentally basic. dont remember off the top of my head
In other words they have barely started

I will until then keep dreaming of summon demi-alexander and ravana-egi

Demi Alexander would be great. But I really think they need to sit down and rebuild Summoner from the ground up. It just has a bit too much going on right now and finding a more happy medium would be ideal.

At this point you've killed enough Primals to fill out a small bestiary worth of summonings. I mean, what elemental alignment ritual would you even use to summon Alexander and Ravana?

Ravana is aspected to both fire and earth, the warring triad to 3 elements

alexander, light, but I more thought demi alexander is exactly that- a replacement for bahamut

I know it really unlikely, but id love a demi-innocence summon. It would solve the lore issue as well.

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Originally Posted by Leidolf

At this point you've killed enough Primals to fill out a small bestiary worth of summonings. I mean, what elemental alignment ritual would you even use to summon Alexander and Ravana?

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Alexander is Light, that's pretty consistent really. And Ravana, as mentioned, is Fire/Earth. There isn't really any elemental issues given Bahamut.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

Alexander is Light, that's pretty consistent really. And Ravana, as mentioned, is Fire/Earth. There isn't really any elemental issues given Bahamut.

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But light doesn't correspond to one of the six elements but rather a pole... which honestly starts making sense when you consider what light represents only applied to time itself. But with Bahamut you have a fair point considering the job quest involved. And as I've said before, if they want to expand the number of Egis you can summon despite the lore reason given in the Summoner quest for why no Ramuh-Egi, the events of Shadowbringer are a perfect excuse for expanded aether capacity. Just lock it behind a Level 80 quest.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

Alexander is Light, that's pretty consistent really..

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Light is not an element, it's a "state"/polarity for aether.
So maybe Alexander was simply an unaspected Primal (towards "passivity"?).

Speaking of which, it'd be nice if we actually had confirmation on the aspects (or lack thereof) of every Primal introduced post-Ravana/Bismarck.

Anyways, and on topic:

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Recently a LL rewatch came out and according to it, they are working on it, but they haven't decided on execution or something fundamentally basic. dont remember off the top of my head
In other words they have barely started

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Back in the LL Revival of "Through the Maelstrom", yeah.

The moment they said that we could summon Leviathan in the future (years ago), everyone in the chat went nuts, asking about the current status of future Egis.

As for Yoshida's response, it was more along the lines of "not at liberty to say" or "still a ways".
If true, then at least we know they haven't forgotten about them.

So here's hoping they'll be coming sooner rather later (preferably before 6.0)...

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Light is not an element, it's a "state"/polarity for aether.
So maybe Alexander was simply an unaspected Primal (towards "passivity"?).

Speaking of which, it'd be nice if we actually had confirmation on the aspects (or lack thereof) of every Primal introduced post-Ravana/Bismarck.

Anyways, and on topic:

Back in the LL Revival of "Through the Maelstrom", yeah.

The moment they said that we could summon Leviathan in the future (years ago), everyone in the chat went nuts, asking about the current status of future Egis.

As for Yoshida's response, it was more along the lines of "not at liberty to say" or "still a ways".
If true, then at least we know they haven't forgotten about them.

So here's hoping they'll be coming sooner rather later (preferably before 6.0)...

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People need to let it go, theyve been keeping us on the hook since 2.3; then they made it worse in HW by including that information in the Job Quests.

Egi Glamour isnt going to happen, it's been a talked about topic from the devs, and them saying "Its coming" for nearly 6 years. The last time they spoke about it, they said "Oh yea, 5.1 will totally have it".

Just be like Elsa, and let it go.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

People need to let it go

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Good luck convincing everyone else (especially overseas) to do just that.
Because I certainly won't.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Egi Glamour isnt going to happen, it's been a talked about topic from the devs, and them saying "Its coming" for nearly 6 years.

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Right, then I guess those Carbuncles were never implemented in Patch 3.5.
Oh wait...

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Just be like Elsa, and let it go.

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How about no?
Also, if the devs' keep acknowledging them rather than outright denying them (like some other features), then it's safe to assume that they are working on them.

(on a side note, and by your logic/attitude, then we would never have had BLU as a job)

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Good luck convincing everyone else (especially overseas) to do just that.
Because I certainly won't.


Right, then I guess those Carbuncles were never implemented in Patch 3.5.
Oh wait...


How about no?
Also, if the devs' keep acknowledging them rather than outright denying them (like some other features), then it's safe to assume that they are working on them.

(on a side note, and by your logic/attitude, then we would never have had BLU as a job)

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Giving back the original Carbuncles we had before equipped the Soul Stone counts as glamour? Okay.... sure.

Blu isnt a job; it's a blatant waste of development resources that could have been used to fix jobs.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Giving back the original Carbuncles we had before equipped the Soul Stone counts as glamour? Okay.... sure.

Blu isnt a job; it's a blatant waste of development resources that could have been used to fix jobs.

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Well considering it is giving the appearance of them... yes it is glamour. Blue mage is a job, its limited and bound to its own content, you may not like it, but others do so I wouldn't say its a "waste of development resources." If anything it is a compromise enabling them to add Blue Mage.

Returning to the topic of Egi glamour, If I recall they said they were adding them in HSW because they couldn't find a means to add new Egis and have them be meaningful. They also said they didn't know whether they would add them all at once or just one by one in patches, but they had to balance that because it wasn't fair to just give smn something. (Though since then i wonder considering the addition of performance) I suspect that the question remains a case of developing it on the side as and when they have the chance and also the question of whether to bother at all in case Egi's are removed entirely. (though i doubt that would actually happen, it would be remiss of them not to consider the possibility considering the constant dislike of Egis in general) Either way though, If they add them it is going to cause some development ramifications down the line because if they change the egi skills, they have to create new animations for each glamour. I think this is perhaps why they have been delayed. They changed all the skills in 5.0 so even if they had some complete, they would need to rework them because of changes to the new skills. It would also mean that they would probably need to wait to after they have finalised 6.0's smn before working on them again, in case the same situation comes about.

This is all conjecture on my part, but I think it is a reasonable assumption to make. Frankly, the devs know they are wanted and will do their utmost to provide them if possible within the resource they have. But it is not as a simple as slapping a new model and texture over the original and hoping for the best. I think people forget that sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Light is not an element, it's a "state"/polarity for aether.
So maybe Alexander was simply an unaspected Primal (towards "passivity"?).

Speaking of which, it'd be nice if we actually had confirmation on the aspects (or lack thereof) of every Primal introduced post-Ravana/Bismarck.

Anyways, and on topic:

Back in the LL Revival of "Through the Maelstrom", yeah.

The moment they said that we could summon Leviathan in the future (years ago), everyone in the chat went nuts, asking about the current status of future Egis.

As for Yoshida's response, it was more along the lines of "not at liberty to say" or "still a ways".
If true, then at least we know they haven't forgotten about them.

So here's hoping they'll be coming sooner rather later (preferably before 6.0)...

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Light isn't an "element" but you can still aspect Aether towards Light so it seems like splitting hairs in terms of distinction. If you can have light aspected Aether, which is what Sineaters and such are, then I don't see any issue with a Light aspected Primal. And Bahamut was specifically a Dark/Astral aspected Calamity.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

Light isn't an "element" but you can still aspect Aether towards Light so it seems like splitting hairs in terms of distinction. If you can have light aspected Aether, which is what Sineaters and such are, then I don't see any issue with a Light aspected Primal. And Bahamut was specifically a Dark/Astral aspected Calamity.

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Bahamut wasn't a Dark/Astral aspected Calamity. He's the only calamity that didn't have ANY aspect to it. That makes him the exception, not the norm.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Bahamut wasn't a Dark/Astral aspected Calamity. He's the only calamity that didn't have ANY aspect to it. That makes him the exception, not the norm.

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I could swear as well he was dark/astral-aspected, which was why he rocked the aetheric balance for the entire continent of eorzea at a fundamental level.

@egi-glam discussion: in the more recent restreams/commentary on the old liveletters, yoshi specifically mentions something to the effect of not being able to talk about egi-glamours for some reason (which to me implies some class changes would be incoming before those would be addressed, or they're tied to something specific (ultimate trials?))

Hi. Sarantai here. Nice to meet you. Unless we’ve already met.

I’ll just go ahead and say that I want Egi’s to stick around, mainly because I am a Roleplayer and use them extensively in my RP. Please do not take my grumpy Titan from me.

In other news, has anyone ever thought of some new ability/mechanic/phase of rotation where We become primals? Like, Shiva or Tsukuyomi. Thordan, too. We’ve seen it done several times already, and since we’re summoning Bahamut and Phoenix these days it seems like that would be the next step. Become a primal for a period of time, do mega-damage, then change back.

Dreadwyrm Trance was the "becoming Primal" option in HW and the reception was... divisive. There's a reason why they gave us the ability to Summon Bahamut in Stormblood.

honestly i'd put "becoming" the thing more in the realm of BLU (in other games), beastmaster/morpher (such as in FFTA), or mime/mimic, and feel that summoner should be actively summoning things more and less of a poisoncaster as it is (personally i'd like to see more different summons being implemented into the animations of other skills, such as changing bio to a burning DoT from ifrit or somesuch).

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Originally Posted by Leidolf

Dreadwyrm Trance was the "becoming Primal" option in HW and the reception was... divisive. There's a reason why they gave us the ability to Summon Bahamut in Stormblood.

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TBF that didn't involve any transformation, so any "becoming primal" flavor was too subtle to be noticed by few

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Originally Posted by SpiralMask

honestly i'd put "becoming" the thing more in the realm of BLU (in other games), beastmaster/morpher (such as in FFTA), or mime/mimic, and feel that summoner should be actively summoning things more and less of a poisoncaster as it is (personally i'd like to see more different summons being implemented into the animations of other skills, such as changing bio to a burning DoT from ifrit or somesuch).

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I've always thought the Trances were pretty much this, and that may be rather than the weird disembodied head that manifests for DWT we should instead have the LB wings manifest for the duration of the trance and then have something similar for phoenix. I think the trances were akin to Iceheart summoning shiva into herself as they are effectively channelling the essence of Bahamut and phoenix within.

It is also why I am hopeful for our next Demi/trance to be Innocence as it is also one of those that lore-wise we have actually fully encountered. If we look at the MSQ encounters we have:

Garuda*
Titan*
Ifrit*

Shiva**
Bismark
Ravana
Tsukuyomi
Lakshmi
Susano
All Lightwardens

*Garuda, Titan and Ifrit I have included, though I hope we do not get these although the third Demi being a demi version of the currently summoned Egi would be pretty cool - though I feel it would also be a bit lacklustre as we've had so much of them already.
**Shiva included as we were present when Ravana defeated her and when she died, so, therefore, we could technically be bathed in her "essence" allowing us to summon them

Omissions: Niddhog - he's not really a primal and its suggested that his essence has taken residence within Estiniens weapon.

This list is comprised only of those we would face in the MSQ. I don't know if we can include those we have fought in side quests as potential summons.

I think it is logical we got phoenix as Bahamut and phoenix's Aether was intertwined and scattered when Bahamut was originally defeated, thus meaning everyone got a bit of it.

edit: added clarification around why Niddhog omitted.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

I've always thought the Trances were pretty much this, and that may be rather than the weird disembodied head that manifests for DWT we should instead have the LB wings manifest for the duration of the trance and then have something similar for phoenix. I think the trances were akin to Iceheart summoning shiva into herself as they are effectively channelling the essence of Bahamut and phoenix within.

It is also why I am hopeful for our next Demi/trance to be Innocence as it is also one of those that lore-wise we have actually fully encountered. If we look at the MSQ encounters we have:

Garuda*
Titan*
Ifrit*

Shiva**
Bismark
Ravana
Tsukuyomi
Lakshmi
Susano
All Lightwardens

*Garuda, Titan and Ifrit I have included, though I hope we do not get these although the third Demi being a demi version of the currently summoned Egi would be pretty cool - though I feel it would also be a bit lacklustre as we've had so much of them already.
**Shiva included as we were present when Ravana defeated her and when she died, so, therefore, we could technically be bathed in her "essence" allowing us to summon them

Omissions: Niddhog - he's not really a primal and its suggested that his essence has taken residence within Estiniens weapon.

This list is comprised only of those we would face in the MSQ. I don't know if we can include those we have fought in side quests as potential summons.

I think it is logical we got phoenix as Bahamut and phoenix's Aether was intertwined and scattered when Bahamut was originally defeated, thus meaning everyone got a bit of it.

edit: added clarification around why Niddhog omitted.

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i'd say at least the warring triad would be safe to include (even as side content), since we've already seen at least sephirot-egi in the SMN class quests.
alex might be available as he shows up in a raid tier (much like pheonix) and his presence is even called out in main content (the tycoon boss was constructed using principles from alex/omega/etc)

Aye I did consider Alexander, but then I realised while he was referred to indirectly in the Twinning, for all purposes we may not have encountered him. The reason we got Bahamut and Phoenix was due to the 1.0 > 2.0 Event that everyone was involved in. Which is why I think that Alexander is unlikely to be included. Then again I think the devs generally go with what is cool and bend the lore to fix it later. I suppose I'm a bit against Alexander (Even though usually he is one of my favourite summons) as I think a machine Demi would be a bit odd. (and Mch has that aesthetic now anyway though of course, Alex is a whole different thing to Queen). Theres the added fact that all of Alex's moves are bright white blasts which I think aesthetically is too similar to Ank Morn and Deathflare. (And I really, really, really, really, really want a demi innocence.)

I would like a more literal transformation. I don’t know how complicated it would be, but they let us switch models in other events. The Halloween ones come to mind especially. Would there be any problems with doing that I’m unaware of?

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Originally Posted by Sarantai

I would like a more literal transformation. I don’t know how complicated it would be, but they let us switch models in other events. The Halloween ones come to mind especially. Would there be any problems with doing that I’m unaware of?

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My guess would be the worsening of problems that already exist when hundreds of players gather in one place with their minions, mounts and chocobos.

Which might also be part of the reason the whole "LSs can summon primals thing" was scrapped

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Originally Posted by Sarantai

I would like a more literal transformation. I don’t know how complicated it would be, but they let us switch models in other events. The Halloween ones come to mind especially. Would there be any problems with doing that I’m unaware of?

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I think literal transformations would be problematic lore-wise, but also in that its another system added onto the job when it is already bulging at the seams. Equally, it couldn't just be a model swap as we would need thematic animations. That said I think if they added to the lore they could make a pretty cool addition as long it was more meaningful to just a visual effect.