New Mentor requirements

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Originally Posted by Bewhatever

Until 5.2, at which point everyone who has not requalified is kicked, per what was announced at 5.0 release. This discussion is really about what happens at release of 5.2, not what happens during 5.1.

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kicked from mentor roulette and mentor crown not from novice network, if I am reading the latest post correctly.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

That's not what the announcement says.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

kicked from mentor roulette and mentor crown not from novice network, if I am reading the latest post correctly.

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I read the same post today. After thinking about both interpretations, I believe today's post applies to 5.1 only, and the previous statement made at 5.0 release (players would have 5.1 to recertify and be dropped at 5.2 release if not recertified at that point) is still operative.

I'd like to be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Galenini

"Upsetting" is not the same as lost trust. Players were given a published set of criteria for remaining a mentor at 5.0 release. With 2 months to go before the "recertification", SE has now significantly changed that plan. This is an arbitrary change at a late stage. I met their stated requirements. Again, as I said, they moved the bar, and now, with less time, I have a new requirement.

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Go back and read the section on Mentor changes in the 5.0 patch notes.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...6712a499e97484

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However, as of patch 5.1, to ensure that all mentors are held to the same standard, changes will be implemented to encourage mentors who qualified under the old system to obtain recertification.

* Please note that mentors who do not do this during patch 5.1 will lose their certification in 5.2.

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Everyone was warned back in June there were more changes to come in 5.1 for those who wanted to retain certification.

It was not an arbitrary change. Players have been upset with the quality of Mentors for quite some time and SE had noticed.

It's not a sudden one when we had 4 months advance notice that more changes would go into effect in 5.1 and Mentors would have until 5.2 to meet the new requirements.

Quit the game over the change if you want. It doesn't make sense when the change does not impact what you say you enjoy doing and how you do it.

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Originally Posted by Bewhatever

I read the same post today. After thinking about both interpretations, I believe today's post applies to 5.1 only, and the previous statement made at 5.0 release (players would have 5.1 to recertify and be dropped at 5.2 release if not recertified at that point) is still operative.

I'd like to be wrong.

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Today's post doesn't conflict with the 5.0 patch notes. They say the same thing - players will have until 5.2 to meet the new requirements implemented in 5.1 to maintain their Mentor certification.

Even if it did conflict, being more current the information in today's post would supercede the previous post.

Today's post only clarifies what the consequences will be for those who don't. They will lose their crown. They will lose access to the Mentor Roulette. They will retain access to the Novice Network but have a special icon denoting that the character is pending recertification.

I genuinely don't get all the fuss people are making. Is 1500 a large number? Sure. But it's also pretty unlikely that those who are truly helpful are going to be unable to meet that requirement by the time 5.2 is released next year. It will help weed out many of those who only "played nice" for a short time to get their 300 commendations for a crown and have since been jerks to other players, giving the Mentor system a bad rep.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Go back and read the section on Mentor changes in the 5.0 patch notes.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...6712a499e97484


Everyone was warned back in June there were more changes to come in 5.1 for those who wanted to retain certification.

It was not an arbitrary change. Players have been upset with the quality of Mentors for quite some time and SE had noticed.

It's not a sudden one when we had 4 months advance notice that more changes would go into effect in 5.1 and Mentors would have until 5.2 to meet the new requirements.

Quit the game over the change if you want. It doesn't make sense when the change does not impact what you say you enjoy doing and how you do it.

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The previous published requirement was 300 commendations (as well as the others.)

The change has suddenly moved from 300 to 5 times that. (Again, also a barrier to entry for new players.)

I have given feedback to SE in a form that they can recognize within their business framework/focus. (This does not mean I have quit; it is one of 3 options.)

I stated two reasons why I play. The assumption that one supersedes the other is not correct. Pursuing the new requirements negates my ability to play with my FC. That absolutely impacts what I enjoy and how I do it. (Playing with people I know and have played with online for 20 years - all of which are family members. All.)

I am sorry if that does not make sense.

My feedback to SE still stands.


PS: I absolutely agree that those who only achieved 300 commendations and temporarily played nice to reap rewards and are not actually contributing to NN or, worse, are causing drama there (see previous post), need to stop negatively impacting the game and its community.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

They should increase the duties done to 3000 or 2000.

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There is not much need for it, because to get 1,500 comms it is very likely you done the 3,000 duties anyway. (and now waiting for the dude that replies he get 3 comms per duty every time...)

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Originally Posted by Galenini

...(Again, also a barrier to entry for new players.)...

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Working as intended. A sprout mentoring you? You kidding, right? :)

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Go back and read the section on Mentor changes in the 5.0 patch notes.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...6712a499e97484


Everyone was warned back in June there were more changes to come in 5.1 for those who wanted to retain certification.

It was not an arbitrary change. Players have been upset with the quality of Mentors for quite some time and SE had noticed.

It's not a sudden one when we had 4 months advance notice that more changes would go into effect in 5.1 and Mentors would have until 5.2 to meet the new requirements.

Quit the game over the change if you want. It doesn't make sense when the change does not impact what you say you enjoy doing and how you do it.


Today's post doesn't conflict with the 5.0 patch notes. They say the same thing - players will have until 5.2 to meet the new requirements implemented in 5.1 to maintain their Mentor certification.

[snip for character count]

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Agreed that the 5.0 patch notes say (cut and paste for accuracy):

Disciples of War and Magic Requirements
Must have completed the level 80 tank role quest.
Must have completed the level 80 healer role quest.
Must have completed at least one of the level 80 DPS role quests.
Must have completed at least 1,000 dungeons and trials.
Must have received at least 300 player commendations.


Players who obtained certification prior to the release of 5.0 but do not meet the new requirements will retain their current status for the duration of patch 5.0.

However, as of patch 5.1, to ensure that all mentors are held to the same standard, changes will be implemented to encourage mentors who qualified under the old system to obtain recertification.
* Please note that mentors who do not do this during patch 5.1 will lose their certification in 5.2.

These statements are unambiguous. They state the requirements to become a mentor after 5.0. They state that earlier mentors are grandfathered in 5.0, but have to recertify to the new standard during 5.1 or will "lose their certification" in 5.2.

There is no ambiguity: 300 player commendations became 1500.

This is a significant change.

I personally am rather casual, do instances largely in guild groups, do so few PUG's that I would be lucky to get more than a commendation per week, meet the 300 commendation requirement based on PUGs from 3 and 4 years ago, and on current trajectory will hit 1500 commendations in about 2042, when I will be 85 years old. I'm not willing to exploit, nor to role play a naked young person, to farm commendations. I will not change my playstyle, my choice of playing with my guild, my appearance in game, or anything else, thank you. So this unexpected change will terminate my combat mentor status as of 5.2. Period.

If what you are saying is that people like me shouldn't be mentors...well...you are entitled to that belief.

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Originally Posted by Bewhatever

These statements are unambiguous. They state the requirements to become a mentor after 5.0. They state that earlier mentors are grandfathered in 5.0, but have to recertify to the new standard during 5.1 or will "lose their certification" in 5.2.

There is no ambiguity: 300 player commendations became 1500.

This is a significant change.

I personally am rather casual, do instances largely in guild groups, do so few PUG's that I would be lucky to get more than a commendation per week, meet the 300 commendation requirement based on PUGs from 3 and 4 years ago, and on current trajectory will hit 1500 commendations in about 2042, when I will be 85 years old. I'm not willing to exploit, nor to role play a naked young person, to farm commendations. I will not change my playstyle, my choice of playing with my guild, my appearance in game, or anything else, thank you. So this unexpected change will terminate my combat mentor status as of 5.2. Period.

If what you are saying is that people like me shouldn't be mentors...well...you are entitled to that belief.

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i am also concerned that having only "elite" players as mentors, who play in content which requires them to exclude anyone who isn't on top of their rotation and gear, will set the kind of exclusive tone which poisoned WoW's culture in its early years, rather than FFXIV's culture (so far) of inclusion and helpfulness.

That's why I think this policy choice is a big deal.

incidentally, it is incorrect to say we were told more changes were coming in 5.1. We were told explicitly what the requirements were in the patch notes quoted above. There was no indication that these were subject to change, acknowledging that the devs always, always have the right to change anything they want anytime they want. But is is correct to say this late change, after expectations were clearly set publicly and in writing, is disconcerting and does cause a loss of trust in the developers by people like me who made plans and prioritized gameplay based on the previous statements.

Quite frankly, the quality problem with mentors on my server has, for the last year, been that about 1% of mentors monopolize chat with shitposting, egocentric chatter, and holding court when they are on, drowning out the ability of sprouts and returning players to get a word in edgewise to ask a question, much less have any other mentor who isn't part of spamming NN actually see the question before it scrolls off. In many cases, these aren't novices, but rather extremely experienced players who are simply bored and waiting for new content. My guess is increasing the commendations requirement will actually increase the % of ineffective but deeply knowledgeable mentors like those, and exclude many of those who are better suited to helping new players.

The "bad mentor" problem is about toxic people, not about skill or experience.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Working as intended. A sprout mentoring you? You kidding, right? :)

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Where, anywhere, did I say anything about a sprout mentoring? That's a confusing assumption.

SE has very carefully cultivated new players..... to the game..... which is business basics working as intended.

There are new players, sprouts, I have seen in chat actually stepping in and helping other sprouts with accurate, specific, helpful information and care.

THESE are the players that I believe will eventually be new mentors (after meeting required levels, etcetera). They already are helping, because that information and playing experiences at the level they are at is still fresh for them and they can appropriately apply it. I would welcome them to NN chat as part of the mentor team once they have gained levels and more game experience (just as the rest of us who mentor did.)

There are often jaded players who believe their opinions (often formed from unapplied theory-crafting) are actually fact and are relaying their opinions as "facts" to new players. And insist on it, making assumptions based totally on a raid mindset, without considering the context of the question being asked and who is asking it that often put the most erroneous answers into NN.

I would not just dismiss a sprout handing out info, just because they are a sprout, particularly those that go out of their way to help.

Those are the ones that are going to have a higher hurdle to overcome with that new arbitrarily high commendations number.

Specifically: barrier to entry (to being a mentor - a comment referencing a previous post.)

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Originally Posted by Bewhatever

If what you are saying is that people like me shouldn't be mentors...well...you are entitled to that belief.

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Mentors are supposed to be players who are helping other players have a good game experience.

You sound like someone who doesn't bother to help others based on what you wrote. You say you stick to your FC, rarely doing content with random players.

If that's the case, then correct - I don't believe you should not have mentor status because you're not interested in helping others.

Why do you think you deserve to keep mentor status when you aren't performing the role of a mentor? Just because you managed to reach 300 commendations so you were entitled to a crown next to your name?

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Originally Posted by Bewhatever

incidentally, it is incorrect to say we were told more changes were coming in 5.1. We were told explicitly what the requirements were in the patch notes quoted above. There was no indication that these were subject to change, acknowledging that the devs always, always have the right to change anything they want anytime they want.

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Directly from the 5.0 patch notes:

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However, as of patch 5.1, to ensure that all mentors are held to the same standard, changes will be implemented to encourage mentors who qualified under the old system to obtain recertification.

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How is that not notice that more changes would be coming?

Finally a change that attempts to fix this joke of a system.

Its still not enough to keep the clueless out tho, if anything its just a time-gate.
Those who want commends will do exactly what those who want likes do on the forums do, ass-kiss others and act as white knights.

I really hope that they add as requirement for someone to become/keep mentor, to have cleared all the mentor roulette content that was added till last patch. (Synced obviously.)
As an example, to be a mentor at 5.1 you have to clear all dung/trials (EX included)/raids that are available in 5.0.

Its hilarious how many "PvE mentors" the are currently that don't know/keep failing mechs or don't even know their class rotation and get carried by the rest full sprout party.

Anyway, i hope that they'll greatly increase requirement for craft/PvP mentors as well asap.
As for those who want to help others yet they cant obtain mentor status for whatever reason, nothing stop them helping without an icon. :)

To be fair I got three friends to play the game and all three thought the Crown was just a "big guild/FC leader" icon or something among those lines. The game itself does a very poor job at explaining the relevancy of Crowns, Sprout, Crownsprout and Hammer symbols to the point of when you finally realize what the crowns stands for, you no longer need mentoring.

Setting that aside, being able to remain as "mentor-to-be" in the NN also doesn't make things any better, as it might just create hostility between old mentors that don't meet the criteria and the new ones, with sprouts being caught in the crossfire.

Not only that but would be nice if in order to be a mentor you had to upkeep that status by, you know, doing things. I see so many mentors that just Limsa AFK all month. I blame that Crown icon.

Thing is, commendations don't mean anything. Some are given for the glamour, some are for the name, some are out of pity. But usually they are not perfomance based, as there is no ingame tool to measure it. If the run goes smooth with noone messing up, how do you know who does best? And how much people are actually looking at the performance of others? I mean, I was once walking out of E2 with a gold parse and zero commendations.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Mentors are supposed to be players who are helping other players have a good game experience.

You sound like someone who doesn't bother to help others based on what you wrote. You say you stick to your FC, rarely doing content with random players.

If that's the case, then correct - I don't believe you should not have mentor status because you're not interested in helping others.

Why do you think you deserve to keep mentor status when you aren't performing the role of a mentor? Just because you managed to reach 300 commendations so you were entitled to a crown next to your name?

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Mentorship in this game is not limited to ONLY running 4-man dungeons. It includes MSQs, which is not precluded by running with an FC. Nor answering questions in NN, offering crafting help, and/or crafted components, gear, etcetera, as well as helping in open world content.

I will often be running with my FC in a 4-man, tanking, and be answering questions at the same time, as many other mentors also do. (In addition to all those PuG instances, obviously. Cough.)

SE has even decided that players who do "nothing but crafting" are viable mentors. Not sure that fits the definition of "helping other players have a good game experience" unless putting expensive crafted items on the MB counts. <wink>


oh, and sorry, just because it's late and I'm punchy: the other FC members don't count as players?

Apologies for stepping in.

I obviously need to stop posting.



Jojoya, I absolutely agree with you that mentors ought to be helpful. And I'm truly sorry for any bad experiences you've had. There are some bad apples out there that abuse the system, and that needs to stop. (And I'm not sure the right way to do that without also eliminating some good ones, or slowing down potential new ones who could be good.)

I don't think commendations accurately measures what SE thinks it does. And that's sad.

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Originally Posted by Galenini

Mentorship in this game is not limited to ONLY running 4-man dungeons. It includes MSQs, which is not precluded by running with an FC. Nor answering questions in NN, offering crafting help, and/or crafted components, gear, etcetera, as well as helping in open world content.

I will often be running with my FC in a 4-man, tanking, and be answering questions at the same time, as many other mentors also do. (In addition to all those PuG instances, obviously. Cough.)

SE has even decided that players who do "nothing but crafting" are viable mentors. Not sure that fits the definition of "helping other players have a good game experience" unless putting expensive crafted items on the MB counts. <wink>

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For some players like me crafting is all we like to do because it helps avoid toxic people like some here who think their mindset is superior than others.And no not all craft mentors only put expensive stuff on the MB, in fact I gone broke helping others make stuff and not only that I teach them about it what stat.. what gear they should look for and about specialist.. custom deliveries and what not.Before you judge crafters and question the relativity of their mentorship 1st become a crafter to see what is involved into to understand how a tradecraft mentor can help new players.

Having no interest in the status, myself, I'll still say the commendation requirements are stupid. As many have noted, DPS tend to get short-changed, people don't vote at all, they're only limited to one choice, and so on. I've only recently broke 200 having restarted in earnest in July, and I have no delusion that the brunt of those came from me leveling WHM/SCH/AST to 50. And of those, the majority came from doing Haukke or lower, which isn't exactly a high bar.

That said, the philosophy some seem to be pushing that they must literally have the whole game mastered is also problematic. What's pending also seems to be a matter of time sink, with a relative bias into forcing people into roles they may not like. There's a significant glut of content where you can't really expect everyone to remember everything, either. That shouldn't disqualify them of knowing other things or subsequently more difficult to seek out. I can also understand a relatively unmoderated global channel will be a sh*tshow, which frankly makes the system that much worse to keep pushing. At this point, I feel we would just be better served by better, unbiased in-game tutorials and resource databases. Want to know what the bosses in a dungeon do and don't care about spoilers? You should be able to look them up without having to resort to third-party sources, complete with examples and suggested counter-actions. Or basically a better Sky/Stone/Sea.

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Originally Posted by Chrisnetika

For some players like me crafting is all we like to do because it helps avoid toxic people like some here who think their mindset is superior than others.And no not all craft mentors only put expensive stuff on the MB, in fact I gone broke helping others make stuff and not only that I teach them about it what stat.. what gear they should look for and about specialist.. custom deliveries and what not.Before you judge crafters and question the relativity of their mentorship 1st become a crafter to see what is involved into to understand how a tradecraft mentor can help new players.

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My profound apologies Chrisnetika.... the <wink> there did not convey that my statement was one I've heard over and over again putting down crafters and I was trying to mock it. Because crafting mentors ARE real mentors.

I know what it takes to craft. And how many crafting mentors go out of their way, often travelling to where new players are to deliver very needed gear. And how crafting can absolutely be an oasis of calm in a toxic environment. I craft. I tell new players all the time when they ask, that crafting is very much a sub-game within the game, and just as, if not more so, complicated as other parts of the game. SE did a damn nice job making it that way.

The supposed-to-be cheeky comment was not meant to create an issue there.

Again, my profound apologies.

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Originally Posted by Chrisnetika

For some players like me crafting is all we like to do because it helps avoid toxic people like some here who think their mindset is superior than others.

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That's the equivalent of locking yourself up in your house 24/7 to avoid birds pooping on your head ^^

Doesn't effect me any. I had those new requirements since heavensward other than having job classes to be level 80. I think it should been raised to 3000 comms and 3000 dungeons. Maybe these new requirements will stop some of the drama queens on the novice network that is not using it for what it is suppose to be used for. Ones that spam macros on it don't care for ether on it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Mentors are supposed to be players who are helping other players have a good game experience.

You sound like someone who doesn't bother to help others based on what you wrote. You say you stick to your FC, rarely doing content with random players.

If that's the case, then correct - I don't believe you should not have mentor status because you're not interested in helping others.

Why do you think you deserve to keep mentor status when you aren't performing the role of a mentor? Just because you managed to reach 300 commendations so you were entitled to a crown next to your name?

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LOL. I run with the crown turned off. Far too pretentious.

In PUGs I will offer to help once but not force my help on someone who does not want it -- except if they're really screwing up (relative to the level they are and the appropriate level of skill for that level) in which case I will make a declarative statement about the preferred way to play in that particular situation, and repeat the offer of help. It is more important not to be an asshole than to confuse or demoralize someone by micromanaging them. With few exceptions, PUGs are not the best place for coaching, in my experience. i would much rather coach a new player in a guild group with everyone's expectations set in advance and the goal being learning with no pressure to speed up the run for the poor PUG members who didn't expect a novice.

Most of the help I give is in response to questions in NN, although I will respond if I see questions in zone or other channels. Getting someone to the point where they can think about their class, or their profession, or about the social norms, or about the economy, or about when to go sit at a targeting dummy, or about how to think about stats and gear pre-endgame, are all really useful things long before one is twisting one's brain into a pretzel to hyper optimize one's rotation and stats for endgame.

All that said, I do think you're right, that someone who isn't there to help novices should not be a mentor. For that reason I do not believe there should be a mentor roulette, a mentor mount, a mentor crown, or any other reason besides wanting to help novices to be a mentor.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Directly from the 5.0 patch notes:

However, as of patch 5.1, to ensure that all mentors are held to the same standard, changes will be implemented to encourage mentors who qualified under the old system to obtain recertification.

How is that not notice that more changes would be coming?

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Read the text you quoted. the clause "to encourage mentors who qualified under the old system..." modifies the core of the sentence "changes will be implemented". It could not be clearer. The changes are those which create the process of recertification, encourage its use, and impose consequences on those who do not recertify. The sentence says and implies nothing about changing the qualifications.

I'm one of the people who gives comms based primarily on glam. I don't often see players who distinguish themselves through above-and-beyond performance (ie: no healers or tanks are inherently entitled to my comm. In fact, sometimes they're the ones doing the least... yes, I'm looking specifically at you, "pure" healers.)

Sooo... if I weren't commending cinnamon buns and sweet popotos for the effort they put into their glam, I doubt I'd be commending anyone for the lack of effort they put into their gameplay.

Perhaps the road to 1500 comms isn't as hard as some seem to think. Maybe all it takes is a bit of work on their fashion-fu?

Oooooh! FASHION MENTORS! That's what we need! Selfless glamour artists dedicated to teaching the masses how to play The True Endgame!

An issue is that people thinks that the Novice Network is some sort of global linkshell.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

You are going to need:
-1,000 dungeons/raids/trials completed
-1,500 player commendations (A Huge increase from 300 ty for this any steeper requirements is better than current ones)
-1 tank lv80 and complete role questline
-1 healer lv80 and complete role questline
-1 DPS lv80 and complete 1 of the role questlines

That is the new requirements for Battle mentor submission whereas trade mentors requirements haven't changed since they announced them pre ShB.

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/Laughs in over 3000 comms

Not that it matters considering that helping is heavily discouraged due to the change of rules. I'll just renew it for keeping the extra roulette.
Wouldn't want to be banned because of "compelling playstyle" to someone...

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Originally Posted by Galenini

The previous published requirement was 300 commendations (as well as the others.)

The change has suddenly moved from 300 to 5 times that. (Again, also a barrier to entry for new players.)

I have given feedback to SE in a form that they can recognize within their business framework/focus. (This does not mean I have quit; it is one of 3 options.)

I stated two reasons why I play. The assumption that one supersedes the other is not correct. Pursuing the new requirements negates my ability to play with my FC. That absolutely impacts what I enjoy and how I do it. (Playing with people I know and have played with online for 20 years - all of which are family members. All.)

I am sorry if that does not make sense.

My feedback to SE still stands.


PS: I absolutely agree that those who only achieved 300 commendations and temporarily played nice to reap rewards and are not actually contributing to NN or, worse, are causing drama there (see previous post), need to stop negatively impacting the game and its community.

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I think Hyomin has the right of it...

The system can only check for things that the game is already tracking.



It has to go based on the achievements, and after 300 commendations, the next one is 500 which was probably deemed too little.

The next one after that is 1500.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

Oooooh! FASHION MENTORS! That's what we need! Selfless glamour artists dedicated to teaching the masses how to play The True Endgame!

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While I have a "main look" for RDM, I have been running in joke outfits while leveling stuff for this mog event. With Halloween looming, I've been rocking the old pumpkin head I got forever ago, the black bikini/tanga, and I think the crystarium gloves/boots. It's not really meant to be pretty so much as silly, but it has gotten a few jibes in chat.

Otherwise, I'll just wish the glamour system was better and less restrictive, as I'd be even more experimental then.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

I'm one of the people who gives comms based primarily on glam. I don't often see players who distinguish themselves through above-and-beyond performance (ie: no healers or tanks are inherently entitled to my comm. In fact, sometimes they're the ones doing the least... yes, I'm looking specifically at you, "pure" healers.)

Sooo... if I weren't commending cinnamon buns and sweet popotos for the effort they put into their glam, I doubt I'd be commending anyone for the lack of effort they put into their gameplay.

Perhaps the road to 1500 comms isn't as hard as some seem to think. Maybe all it takes is a bit of work on their fashion-fu?

Oooooh! FASHION MENTORS! That's what we need! Selfless glamour artists dedicated to teaching the masses how to play The True Endgame!

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I'm sorry I'm no match for you. We will try to improve so that you feel proud.

No.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

I'm one of the people who gives comms based primarily on glam. I don't often see players who distinguish themselves through above-and-beyond performance (ie: no healers or tanks are inherently entitled to my comm. In fact, sometimes they're the ones doing the least... yes, I'm looking specifically at you, "pure" healers.)

Sooo... if I weren't commending cinnamon buns and sweet popotos for the effort they put into their glam, I doubt I'd be commending anyone for the lack of effort they put into their gameplay.

Perhaps the road to 1500 comms isn't as hard as some seem to think. Maybe all it takes is a bit of work on their fashion-fu?

Oooooh! FASHION MENTORS! That's what we need! Selfless glamour artists dedicated to teaching the masses how to play The True Endgame!

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I'm all for Fashion Mentors. Real fashion, mind you. Not that BS at the Gold Saucer where you grab things out of your closet blindfolded and put them on. :D

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Originally Posted by AkaeiNox

An issue is that people thinks that the Novice Network is some sort of global linkshell.

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Perhaps that's because that's how mentors have treated it on many worlds, answering new player requests for assistance with "L2google" if they don't outright ignore them.

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It has to go based on the achievements,

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Why would that have to be true?

Commendations are displayed on the character panel, and as far as I am aware, anything else displayed there can and is referenced elsewhere without requiring related achievements.

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Mentors are supposed to be players who are helping other players have a good game experience.

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Which can include, but is not limited to (or reflected in game in any way)

Organizing community events (be it silly crap or hunt trains)
Answering questions asked by new / returning / slow / dense people (which is generally done everywhere BUT small group content)
Theorycrafting rotations and gear
Crafting stuff for people who have mats and need them crafted
Helping people decorate their homes
Helping people do beast tribe named fates in ARR

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Originally Posted by Saidosha

While I have a "main look" for RDM, I have been running in joke outfits while leveling stuff for this mog event. With Halloween looming, I've been rocking the old pumpkin head I got forever ago, the black bikini/tanga, and I think the crystarium gloves/boots. It's not really meant to be pretty so much as silly, but it has gotten a few jibes in chat.

Otherwise, I'll just wish the glamour system was better and less restrictive, as I'd be even more experimental then.

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That is cute! It reminds me of the bedsheet ghost I once got in my MSQ roulette! I couldn't deal with them looming over my shoulder in every cutscene XD
It was the only thing making my bazillionth Praetorium run bearable and I think that's ultimately the best measure of who deserves a comm: did that person's presence improve my experience in this duty? Yes? Then they deserve a reward and nobody gets to tell me that was an invalid choice.

(And yups, I agree, I wish they'd stop putting job restrictions on glamour, there are so many pieces that fit together perfectly in previews but can never actually be worn at the same time >.<)

As an aside, here's someone I would nominate to be a Fashion Mentor in a heartbeat:

https://i.ibb.co/v4LP1Pz/ffxiv-10092019-054813-529.png

If we ever met in some roulettes, he would be guaranteed as many commendations as I could throw at him! This is someone who has WON the game. There is nothing left for him to do in FF14 except standing outside the Limsa Aetheryte Plaza and dancing his buff little pom off like there's no tomorrow.

It really doesn't matter much if commendations are given out randomly or based on glamour or whatever - and I am pretty sure most people avoid giving them to a person who plays with their face rolling over the keyboard. So in order to get them you need at least a basic understanding of your job. And then it's one huge time-gate, wich ensures you have played the game a lot, wich will make you automatically better at playing the game due to training.

And if really a lot of people commend the worst person in the party - well, we will get the mentors we deserve then I think. We ourself have voted them into that position.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

Why would that have to be true?

Commendations are displayed on the character panel, and as far as I am aware, anything else displayed there can and is referenced elsewhere without requiring related achievements.

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The devs have mentioned it before, Flags.


The system checks for Flags that gets set on certain Milestones are reached.

Many of those flags are achievements, that's why for example, you can only reobtain the Garo gear if you've gotten the achievement for it.
The Calamity salvager checks the flags that are set by the achievements to see what you are allowed to purchase from it.



The mentor check is the same way, do you have this Commendation achievement flag, do you have the flags for completing the role quests, do you have this instance number achievement flag, that's just how they set up how things check other things in the game.

Imo Mentor Requiriments still easy, it should be at least:

- PVE Mentor: all combat jobs at Lv80 + 3000 Commendations + All Extreme and Savage Cleared.

- Craft/Gather Mentor: All Craft/Gathering Jobs at Lv80 + 5000 Collectables + All Master Recipes/Folklore + All Job Quests and NPCs deliveries done ( including Crystallium ).

- PVP Mentor: 1000 Frontline + 1000 Feast + 1000 Rival Wings.

Most of Mentors in this game are useless and know nothing about what mentoring they stand for, over 90% people just become Mentors to use Novice Network ( where 5 out 100 Mentors interact with people there, talking, socializing and answering questions, while the another 95 not even say "Hi" when Log in and loves to kick random people for nonsense and trivial reasons ) or because the Crown is "cute" to use at your nick name.

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Originally Posted by DenzelVilliers

All Extreme and Savage Cleared.

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That's beyond what a mentor needs to do. Mentors are there to help new and returning players trying to get into the game, not necessarily help with endgame content, though they can do that as well, such as via mentor roulette.

The same thing probably can be said about some of your proposed crafter/gatherer requirements.

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Originally Posted by DenzelVilliers

Imo Mentor Requiriments still easy, it should be at least:

- PVE Mentor: all combat jobs at Lv80 + 3000 Commendations + All Extreme and Savage Cleared.

- Craft/Gather Mentor: All Craft/Gathering Jobs at Lv80 + 5000 Collectables + All Master Recipes/Folklore + All Job Quests and NPCs deliveries done ( including Crystallium ).

- PVP Mentor: 1000 Frontline + 1000 Feast + 1000 Rival Wings.

Most of Mentors in this game are useless and know nothing about what mentoring they stand for, over 90% people just become Mentors to use Novice Network ( where 5 out 100 Mentors interact with people there, talking, socializing and answering questions, while the another 95 not even say "Hi" when Log in and loves to kick random people for nonsense and trivial reasons ) or because the Crown is "cute" to use at your nick name.

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Woah, woah, settle down there. no need to add savage clears to this. EX clears are fine though.

My personal take on this:

One year ago I lost my old account. This was not due to behavior, it was due to a change in country: And due to SE having outsourced their security, my account kept getting flagged for RMT because I was having to use PayPal to add Crysta to my account, to pay for my subscription. Every time that I had to add crysta, my account would be temporarily banned from use because it was flagged for potential RMT. (I was adding money from a country NOT my country of origin on the account.) After being told by a GM that if I kept using a VPN to bypass the account restriction I'd be permanently banned, I decided to just buy an NA account and start all over. (Goodbye, 3 years of work, my house and my omni gatherer/crafter.

Anyway. I've had to bust my hind end to try and get to mentor status on this new account. I had to start fresh. Zero comms. I'm an experienced player who loves to explain fights, help new players, etc etc. The crown lets people know that I've been around a while, I know my stuff. Well, I'm very nearly there: And then! New requirements: 1k commendations. Sometimes, I can be the only reason a group survives, tank flawlessly, save the day as the healer, be the kindest person there and still get zero commendations - just because giving commendations is optional and people usually just want to leave without clicking a button.

I've reached the 300 comms requirement - after a YEAR of playing. (MInd you, I didn't do a TON of dungeons like I did on my old account.)

So I guess here's to 2-3 more years before I"ll get mentor. (And then they'll increase it to 2,000+ comms.)

This really just made me not want to care anymore and just to keep to myself rather than continuing to go the extra mile all of the time. It was nice to be rewarded for my hard work and dedication: Now I feel like I'm being punished by an arbitrary, optional, commendation system.

The Mentors who have been Mentors for years now also already have the 1,000 commendations. You're not going to fix the 'problem' Mentors by increasing the commendation requirement. You're only making it harder, MUCH harder for players who haven't been around 5+ years.

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Originally Posted by DenzelVilliers

...All Extreme and Savage Cleared...

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Savage have nothing to share with mentoring new players, while extremes are already included because required for mentor roulette.
I agree on set up specific requirements for PvP mentoring, 'tho.

Mentor status still requires 0 mentoring. Nothing new.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

while extremes are already included because required for mentor roulette.

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That kinda explains the horrible experiences I had with mentors joining Ex parties. Yes no, don't funnel them into savage please :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by DenzelVilliers

Most of Mentors in this game are useless and know nothing about what mentoring they stand for, over 90% people just become Mentors to use Novice Network ( where 5 out 100 Mentors interact with people there, talking, socializing and answering questions, while the another 95 not even say "Hi" when Log in and loves to kick random people for nonsense and trivial reasons ) or because the Crown is "cute" to use at your nick name.

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Explain to me how your requirements help solve this problem.

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Originally Posted by DenzelVilliers

Imo Mentor Requiriments still easy, it should be at least:

- PVE Mentor: all combat jobs at Lv80 + 3000 Commendations + All Extreme and Savage Cleared.

- Craft/Gather Mentor: All Craft/Gathering Jobs at Lv80 + 5000 Collectables + All Master Recipes/Folklore + All Job Quests and NPCs deliveries done ( including Crystallium ).

- PVP Mentor: 1000 Frontline + 1000 Feast + 1000 Rival Wings.

Most of Mentors in this game are useless and know nothing about what mentoring they stand for, over 90% people just become Mentors to use Novice Network ( where 5 out 100 Mentors interact with people there, talking, socializing and answering questions, while the another 95 not even say "Hi" when Log in and loves to kick random people for nonsense and trivial reasons ) or because the Crown is "cute" to use at your nick name.

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so you want 5 people to be in novice chat and there is a high chance that they don't actually want to even help anyone.