Eureka wasn't so bad, but endgame in ffxiv is lacking without eureka

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Originally Posted by Sapphire_Dianta

I'm... kinda confused. Where did all the people who loved Eureka come from all of a sudden? .

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Because people who enjoyed it generally keep to themselves instead of yelling in shout or on forums

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

The problem with people who don't have a clue is they can wipe the entire raid. Only takes one mistake at Ozma to wipe everyone.

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I don't think oneshot mechanics that rely on 8 people making 0 mistakes are good game design, or fun gameplay wise, especially with randoms. Sure you can use that kind of mechanic occasionally, but I prefer stuff like E2S where you still have personal responsibility, but you don't insta wipe the whole thing when you make a mistake. You will eventually hit enrage if too many mistakes happen, sure, but the mood in parties in that kind of content is usually a lot better than in parties that insta wiped for the 20th time in a row bc someone fked up some mechanic.

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

I don't think oneshot mechanics that rely on 8 people making 0 mistakes are good game design, or fun gameplay wise, especially with randoms. Sure you can use that kind of mechanic occasionally, but I prefer stuff like E2S where you still have personal responsibility, but you don't insta wipe the whole thing when you make a mistake. You will eventually hit enrage if too many mistakes happen, sure, but the mood in parties in that kind of content is usually a lot better than in parties that insta wiped for the 20th time in a row bc someone fked up some mechanic.

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No it's a learning curve and it's not 8 people it's 56 people counting support. One needs to start with frag runs, then do progression and then move on to clears. It's not really that hard if one gets Eureka gear, updates it and then does the clear as intended. For those and I know there are some who would love to be carried by either sniping or joining runs they're not qualified for but that's hard to do that with mechanics that matter.

If someone drops a meteor in the middle of a group well chances are that run is destined to fail at the final boss.

I have a number of clears with different alts both on Aether and Crystal. I know the process and for me it is something that was a lot of fun. Savage doesn't interest me in the least.

The discords did a pretty good job in my opinion although matchmaking should be something that should be done in game.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Because people who enjoyed it generally keep to themselves instead of yelling in shout or on forums

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I feel like the ones who do speak out really just speak for BA. Which I'll totally say is the some of the most fun content in the game.

I'm hoping if they do Eureka 2 Electric Boogaloo that they take what worked well for BA and make that the endgame with our relic.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

And these are logical numbers?

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Probably, I'm sure 80-90% would love to log in and get the mail notification.

"Thanks for Subscribing to FFXIV. Attached is your free Relic and ilvl 475 gear! Again, thank you for subbing!!!"

I liked the concept of Eureka, but I hated doing Anemos, it felt like a glorified Fate grind, but as I understand it, it got better in Pyros and Hydratos. So if they learn from that, then great. I like the idea of levequests of some kind in there, well, more you spawn NM's as part of a group that your group has claim of. Make those NM's interesting and I think this would be a good improvement on any Fate grinding. So we might hunt certain mobs as part of groups.

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

I don't think oneshot mechanics that rely on 8 people making 0 mistakes are good game design, or fun gameplay wise, especially with randoms. Sure you can use that kind of mechanic occasionally, but I prefer stuff like E2S where you still have personal responsibility, but you don't insta wipe the whole thing when you make a mistake. You will eventually hit enrage if too many mistakes happen, sure, but the mood in parties in that kind of content is usually a lot better than in parties that insta wiped for the 20th time in a row bc someone fked up some mechanic.

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Myself and everyone I raid with think those 2 things are the same. in other words, personal responsibility and group responsibility are the same. You dying due to being unfocused for a few seconds means we have to make up your DPS in the long run of the fight. What ruins the mood entirely is when someone doesnt acknowledge a mistake was made and refuse to adjust.

I personally hated Eureka and I regret the time I spent going through it. Conceptually, its a good idea but it was implemented poorly I feel. Every single final relic was also super ugly and not worth the time grinding them out. BA should also have been joinable outside Eureka imo. It was a huge pain in the rear trying to get into the same instance as everyone doing BA through Discord.

I will say it again, if they nixed the leveling system, or made it more tolerable with quests/dailies to do instead of grind mobs/fates ad nauseum, I wouldn't have minded Eureka.

Problem with the end game is that FFXIV's battle system is absolutely dreadful on its own, and is only enhanced by boss mechanics, and not with the lame content. The rigidness and continuous homogenizing of classes are gonna continue to make this game worse as time will go on.

SE has so far released non-standard content like Deep Dungeon, Diadem, Eureka and special fights like Steps of Faith, but only Deep Dungeon was somewhat successful, but not for a good reason (reason being that it gives good exp).

The game is all about DPS and only DPS, yet it gives you no idea how well you're doing, so you gotta rely on other tools or if you're on PS4, other people, to know how well you're doing.

The helplessness DPS feel in some solo content, the sheer boredom healers deal with in fates due to low damage and infinite survivability, and the braindead rotations tanks do makes it almost impossible to make good content without making them like the standard dungeons where you have a boss fight with dodging, and doing meaningful things. This is why Eureka failed because on paper, killing things should be fun, but in XIV, you spend half the time watching your GCD spin and it's quite frankly dire.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

I liked the concept of Eureka, but I hated doing Anemos, it felt like a glorified Fate grind, but as I understand it, it got better in Pyros and Hydratos. So if they learn from that, then great. I like the idea of levequests of some kind in there, well, more you spawn NM's as part of a group that your group has claim of. Make those NM's interesting and I think this would be a good improvement on any Fate grinding. So we might hunt certain mobs as part of groups.

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To be fair, the entirety of Eureka was a Fate grind except for BA. That was one of many reasons I didn't like Eureka, but I won't get into the rest here. BA was a decent piece of content from what I've heard but it lacked good accessibility imo. Nothing wrong with it being a challenge. But I feel that BA should have been the "free" reward for toughing out the relic grind from start to finish and should have been made queueable like a dungeon or 24 man raid, with access obviously being locked behind a completed relic and maybe the NM that spawns it. So it would have remained a bit of a time sink but it would have been like "BA's up?! Alright everybody let's go!" instead of "Oh boy, better beat everyone else to the portals so I can get in..." The punishment for failure could have been kept as well, since leveling back up doesn't take all that long. Also, the most ideal way to coordinate one of these runs was through Discord which could take potentially hours to get everyone in the same instance at the same and right time and maybe get everyone that needs to be inside. That itself is bad design imo.

We literally had a 100 page thread called "lack of endgame content". Funny to see this topic resurface again from a completely different person. Good luck with this quest sir and beware of the tribe....they'll be attacking shortly.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Snip.

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Ah, I never persisted as far. I had heard multiple times Pyros and Hydratos are where it gets better and that BA is great, but as a friend who did it all to get the Ozma mount said to me "but it's not worth it". I think they found BA to be great, but not so great that it's worth suffering through all the grinding to get there.

I can see what SE were trying to do with Eureka, bring back the old MMO vibe of endgame content, like in FFXI. I was excited originally, but I think the biggest issue was that it was a big FATE train. I don't think it was intended to be, but the game facilitated it and made it the best method of getting stuff. But the content being a glorified FATE train doesn't really capture that feel. Because it feels like ARR levelling, Atma and I think some of the later relics too where there's a big FATE grinding session. So I'm already burned out on doing them.

I think the essence could have been captured if you have groups of people going after forced spawn NM's and that group claiming them. This is where a modification of the leve system would perhaps work better. You could put in fight mechanics and several fights that can be done across the map to spread people out and have the difficulty tailored to a party. If they wanted to go a step further, require the killing of certain mobs to trigger the ability to spawn certain NM's. Or give certain requires that must be achieved by the party. I think this would be a good start. It'd give something to break up fights and feel like you're working towards the fight. I think there needs to be more of a reward from fighting normal mobs too, to give room for solo levelling without it being a huge grind fest.

If they also really wanted, they could also take a leaf out of GW2's book. I think out of the modern MMO's, GW2 handle open world battles best. I don't remember any of the names of things in GW2, but I remember have a tonne of fun taking down a massive dragon whose fight had stages where he was airbourne and people would work together with ranged attacks (I think there might have been turrets? Memory hazy) to take them out of the sky. And ground mechanics, but there were defensive mechanics you had to be careful of on the ground. But it felt like things worked in phases, there was variety in each phase and you felt like you were in a big epic battle as a result. You see a lot of deaths. And I'd say SE has done content I think shows potential for that kind of direction, like Odin and Coeurlregina. But why not go grander for something like Eureka? Where it is meant to be more perilous than normal open world content.

I guess in terms of the FFXIV world, seeing more in the way of EX or Savage style fights in the open world for a Eureka like content for world bosses could be fun. At least instead of stuff you can zerg. Though if I understand correctly that's what BA brought? Something like this would interest me more than Savage.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

Ah, I never persisted as far. I had heard multiple times Pyros and Hydratos are where it gets better and that BA is great, but as a friend who did it all to get the Ozma mount said to me "but it's not worth it". I think they found BA to be great, but not so great that it's worth suffering through all the grinding to get there.

I can see what SE were trying to do with Eureka, bring back the old MMO vibe of endgame content, like in FFXI. I was excited originally, but I think the biggest issue was that it was a big FATE train. I don't think it was intended to be, but the game facilitated it and made it the best method of getting stuff. But the content being a glorified FATE train doesn't really capture that feel. Because it feels like ARR levelling, Atma and I think some of the later relics too where there's a big FATE grinding session. So I'm already burned out on doing them.

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The Fate train was actually unintended, and the devs wanted people to level the "old school" way. Oddly enough though, as bad as more Fates was, it is what made the grind more tolerable. They tried to remove the train entirely with Pagos but were met with severe backlash (and I'm guessing way less players in Pagos than in Anemos) so they put it back in. Pagos also saw nerfs pretty frequently, though it was still awful regardless. Pyros was probably the best designed area of the whole thing. Leveling wasn't bad, the grind was tolerable and the map wasn't too horrible to navigate. I did NOT like the light grind for random stats, however. Hydatos? I didn't spend much time there beyond finishing my relic, grabbing the glowing Fending set and leaving...never to return. I was so done with Eureka and wanted it all to be over by that point. BA wasn't worth the effort of getting into, though it wasn't as though I didn't want to see it. I really did. But...it wasn't worth the time, really. Not after everything I had to put up with to even gain access to it.

Eureka was absolutely not my cup of tea but if they implement another version with all the lessons from their previous failures in mind, I would try it. Half my issue with Eureka was that you had to slog through hell to get to the 'good part' and that just wasn't interesting to me, even though everything I heard about BA and Hydratos was mostly good. Hopefully this time they start out on the right foot instead of pulling another Diadem->Anemos transition.

Only 5.8% of the NA playerbase had reached level 50 in Pyros at the time Hydatos was released.
I find it hard to believe that this number rose to more than 10-20% with the lure of BA, or the extra 6 months waiting for Shadowbringers.
Odd that apparently all of that 5.8% are commenting in this thread...

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Originally Posted by Jennah

Only 5.8% of the NA playerbase had reached level 50 in Pyros at the time Hydatos was released.
I find it hard to believe that this number rose to more than 10-20% with the lure of BA, or the extra 6 months waiting for Shadowbringers.
Odd that apparently all of that 5.8% are commenting in this thread...

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If that number is real it doesn't really surprise me. There was definitely less and less people with each installment of Eureka just from personal observation. I wasn't around for Pagos 1.0 but I know it broke a lot of people. Pyros was pretty busy a lot of the time but it certainly wasn't no Anemos. Hydatos was slightly less busy. I think a lot of people were just there to get their relics/armor and leave asap. Even on the average day, NMs weren't being prepped nearly as often as they were in Pyros. Nowhere near, in fact. Most of the NMs being prepped at all were considered "easy". I think I only saw PW a total of 3 times as well, which is a huge difference from seeing Louhi or even Penny almost daily (and usually multiple times) if I spent enough time in them.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

If that number is real it doesn't really surprise me. There was definitely less and less people with each installment of Eureka just from personal observation. I wasn't around for Pagos 1.0 but I know it broke a lot of people. Pyros was pretty busy a lot of the time but it certainly wasn't no Anemos. Hydatos was slightly less busy. I think a lot of people were just there to get their relics/armor and leave asap. Even on the average day, NMs weren't being prepped nearly as often as they were in Pyros. Nowhere near, in fact. Most of the NMs being prepped at all were considered "easy". I think I only saw PW a total of 3 times as well, which is a huge difference from seeing Louhi or even Penny almost daily (and usually multiple times) if I spent enough time in them.

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There was a reason why most instances only ever bothered with left side FATEs in Hydatos: with the exception of Daphne and maybe Goldi (only nighttime) the other right side FATEs required fighting dangerous high level mobs and the FATE bosses themself very quite touch.
PW was another story, it required a (potentially) enormous amount of Claw kills to spawn him.

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Originally Posted by Noitems

I feel like the ones who do speak out really just speak for BA. Which I'll totally say is the some of the most fun content in the game.

I'm hoping if they do Eureka 2 Electric Boogaloo that they take what worked well for BA and make that the endgame with our relic.

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alot do like BA but most i hear from people who enjoy eureka is generally
"pagos is hell but every where else is great"

Eureka was a hell of a grind but I considered it endgame for me as I don't have the skill level or the motivation for savage. Not to mention where else will you find the most use of multi seat mounts.

Sadly if they do continue it this expansion, given the current trends lately, it will be dumped down. Probably won't even be a grind anymore.

I tried Eureka a couple times, Couldn't get more than a couple hundred yards into the zone without getting killed. Took forever to kill the "low level" mobs close to the base with no results as well, so I just gave up on it. Couldn't figure out the rotary selection thing either.

I find relic weapons give me an endgame something to work toward as a player who doesn't want to raid. But Eureka is the opposite of rewarding a mostly solo player, so I've found it pretty disappointing, even though I finished 7 Pagos weapons before 5.0 dropped. Now, Pyros is almost always empty and, despite a few tries, I've not been able to solo NMs to get crystals on my own. I'd like relic weapons for 5.x to be much more solo-friendly and with some idea that, once 6.0 hits, there may still be some of us that want to get relics.

They just need the fates in eureka to drop newest tomestone. And it will be relevent content again

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Originally Posted by samurailargo

They just need the fates in eureka to drop newest tomestone. And it will be relevent content again

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I agree just not happening with poetics

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Originally Posted by WildsWalker

I find relic weapons give me an endgame something to work toward as a player who doesn't want to raid. But Eureka is the opposite of rewarding a mostly solo player, so I've found it pretty disappointing, even though I finished 7 Pagos weapons before 5.0 dropped. Now, Pyros is almost always empty and, despite a few tries, I've not been able to solo NMs to get crystals on my own. I'd like relic weapons for 5.x to be much more solo-friendly and with some idea that, once 6.0 hits, there may still be some of us that want to get relics.

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If they adjust it for solo play it would get face rolled by groups for even faster gain.

Well, I usually don’t post on threads, and this is likely just gonna be another drop of water in the sea, but here goes nothing: The problem with Eureka style content is that it has the inherent flaw of being something you either do while it is current, or you are left out pretty much forever, with no in-game recourse to allow people to experience it properly once it has died out. Eureka wasn’t THAT bad, I will grant it, but it was filled with so many questionable design choices that I’m quite confident in saying that the only reason it wasn’t dead on arrival was because the relics were held hostage behind it. Leveling was a chore, and if you or a friend were late for the party for whatever reason, you were actively discouraged from helping them out because of the exp penalty for level disparity higher than 2 levels (a party-wide level sync, like it was suggested so many times throughout Eureka’s lifespan would have helped, but alas it was not to be) and if you were killed in an area where mobs would one shot even max level players, it was up to fate if you were gonna get raised or have to bite the exp penalty (thankfully, people within Eureka were mostly nice about rescuing the poor unfortunate ones). The Baldesion Arsenal, while somewhat fun and interesting in its concept, looks to me like a living guide on how NOT to design content (warning: text wall incoming):

Forming a party and getting in was already an unpleasant experience, no matter which way you tried to go about it. If you were going with a preorganized massive alliance it would take either a lot of luck or hours of queuing in and getting out to get everyone together in the same instance, all the while hoping that you didn’t enter an instance with another group already there (not to mention how often it would be ruined for some people, because portal sniping was a thing). The alternative (which, although the original intended way by the devs quickly died out on the Western side of the game) was to just wing it, have all people in be pugs, which I will say, would not have been so bad if it wasn’t for the fact that once you got into the Arsenal there was no way to swap classes, so you were at the mercy of getting 48+ players in the exact classes that were needed to form cohesive parties (why the chamber at the beginning couldn’t have worked as an area to swap jobs according to what was needed is beyond me). Getting into it should not have been tied to Hydatos in the way that it was, imo.

It’s also worth mentioning that running the Arsenal tended to be very expensive (timewise, Gil-wise, or both), especially for healers, considering that having the correct Logos was mandatory.

The no-raise by usual means penalty is a particularly sour point for me. I will readily admit, that mechanic was the only thing that made BA as difficult it was. It kept you on your toes, because any slip up could be deadly. The problem is, that just became an exercise in frustration, due to the fact that 80% of the attacks in that place will one shot you if you’re not a tank. If you were a DPS, it was pretty much goodbye to your entire run, because almost no healers would bother (and with good reason) to cast sacrifice to get a DPS up. Even if you mastered the entire place, there would still be the chance of things going south because the game would at times not handle BA very well (there are videos with Raiden not following through his jump back animation before following up with his Zantetsuken, not to mention reports of the puddles/orbs (I forget which) in AV not showing up on screen, making the mechanic a 50/50 chance that you were doing it right blindly) I think it would have been better to have something that was a little more reliable than a 70% chance of your Spirit of the Remembered proc, relying to healers Sacrifice logos, or waiting for a healer lb 3 (which I’ve never seen being used in BA). For example: have an actual limit to the amount of times one could die and be raised, maybe a “3 strikes, you’re out” sort of deal, or have it so that after a boss fight was over there would be a grace period of a few minutes in which people could be raised.

Absolute Virtue’s design was another one of my gripes, not so much the add rooms, but the fact that whether or not you could even attempt to fight with without getting KOed within the first 2 minutes of the fight was to have an NM, completely outside of BA, and therefore out of your reach, be defeated. It wasn’t an easy NM either, heck, it was arguably the hardest one out of the bunch in Hydatos. Plus, the reward for downing it was hardly worth the effort, to the point where it wasn’t uncommon of having reports on most of a Hydatos instance flat out refusing to do that NM. I think it would have been best to either have the NM within BA, or to just have it removed altogether.

And last, but not least, and this isn’t so much about the design of BA anymore, but why, pray tell, did they have to lock the true ending of the Eureka questline behind BA, which was supposed to have been a fully optional part of Eureka as a whole!?

<sigh> Sorry for the wall of text, BA is not exactly my fondest memory of this game. My point is, if they ever decide to bring back something like Eureka, it either needs to come with a lot more reasons to get people to come into it after the initial craze, or it has to be made in a way that allows people later down the line to progress through it solo or with a reduced number of people without it being a monumental time sink.

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Originally Posted by Machi_Machiavelli

If they adjust it for solo play it would get face rolled by groups for even faster gain.

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It already scales the NMs for the number of people in the instance. If they adjusted it so, if I'm the only one in the instance, I can solo NMs, it would let me, at least, dream of getting the Eureka relics some day. My preference would be for the various Eureka crystals to be available as an option for dungeons. So I could get 100 Pyros Crystals instead of 100 Poetics for running Syrcus, for instance. But rewarding crystals for just killing mobs in Eureka or completing the weekly challenge logs wouldn't let people face-roll anything and would let latecomers like me get the glowy weapons. And, now that it's not current content, why shouldn't people face-roll it anyway?

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Originally Posted by samurailargo

They just need the fates in eureka to drop newest tomestone. And it will be relevent content again

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Eh. While that might help, hunts are infinitely better, especially as our ilvl increases. By grab NMs in Eureka when you can join a hunt train and be capped in less than 40 minutes?

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Originally Posted by Akatosh

Absolute Virtue’s design was another one of my gripes, not so much the add rooms, but the fact that whether or not you could even attempt to fight with without getting KOed within the first 2 minutes of the fight was to have an NM, completely outside of BA, and therefore out of your reach, be defeated. It wasn’t an easy NM either, heck, it was arguably the hardest one out of the bunch in Hydatos. Plus, the reward for downing it was hardly worth the effort, to the point where it wasn’t uncommon of having reports on most of a Hydatos instance flat out refusing to do that NM. I think it would have been best to either have the NM within BA, or to just have it removed altogether.

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This was only a problem for the first couple weeks when said NM rewarded a paltry 10 crystals. Once they buffed that to 30, everyone practically tripped over themselves to kill it. I did a LOT of BA and it was never an issue.

Is it truly endgame though? 5.0 is the first part of a two year expansion. People need to chill out. There is much more planned. The best thing to do is get geared up for what's to come.

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Originally Posted by Renato

Is it truly endgame though? 5.0 is the first part of a two year expansion. People need to chill out. There is much more planned. The best thing to do is get geared up for what's to come.

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Unless you do Savage or Ultimate, gear is largely pointless. Take Eureka, for example. It synced us down, thus rendering our BiS sets meaningless until Hydatos, which introduced its own BiS.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Eh. While that might help, hunts are infinitely better, especially as our ilvl increases. By grab NMs in Eureka when you can join a hunt train and be capped in less than 40 minutes?

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Yes you can join a hunt train but you can't earn a relic with hunts. I'd work on another relic IF doing nm's gave me a reason to be there other than crystals. I am sure not motivated to go or do them with poetics the reward and I'm sure I'm not alone.

And I might add I have quite a few relics to my credit on multiple characters.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Yes you can join a hunt train but you can't earn a relic with hunts. I'd work on another relic IF doing nm's gave me a reason to be there other than crystals. I am sure not motivated to go or do them with poetics the reward and I'm sure I'm not alone.

And I might add I have quite a few relics to my credit on multiple characters.

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I mean, the relic itself is the reward. I've gone back and done several HW relics, and may do some on my alts. The only issue with Eureka is it's not solo friendly.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I mean, the relic itself is the reward. I've gone back and done several HW relics, and may do some on my alts. The only issue with Eureka is it's not solo friendly.

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No it's not. I suspect we'll see a major nerf when they get ready to announce the new one. The problem now although I can't verify it personally given I really haven't entered the content since xpac. I would consider it if the tomes were worth the visit. Nothing like Ovni to cap a character off or the NM's to help cap you while earning crystals at the same time.

It's going to be interesting to see what they do because my feeling at the moment is the content is simply dead.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Unless you do Savage or Ultimate, gear is largely pointless. Take Eureka, for example. It synced us down, thus rendering our BiS sets meaningless until Hydatos, which introduced its own BiS.

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Not necessarily...You can get the Deepshadow gear from just running dungeons and normal mode 8-man trials. Even if it isn't augmented, it's still pretty useful due to the two-slots on the accessories. Often times, the tome gear is some of the best gear in the game and will get you through the upcoming content with no issues for at least a few ilvls. As I said, this is only 5.0...there is two years worth of more content to come. Sure, it gets outdated fairly quickly if you rely on dungeon gear but you still need to be geared up fairly well to get through anything comfortably.

The problem with Eureka is that even after you got the relic, it was still heavily underpowered at that point to where it was just a collectable glamour. For the headache that Eureka turned out to be, the next one needs to give reward that makes it worth it in my opinion. And I do think that there will be another iteration of it eventually. But probably later on...5.1 is supposedly coming in October. There's the new 24-man raid, more job changes, best tribe quests, the contunuation of the Eden trials, the Ishgard Restoration and who knows what else that's coming down the line.

Stuff just takes time. This isn't endgame...this is just the beginning. lol

I still think eureka could be improve on

this where trust system could play a role in it for just eureka or content like it you have limited trust companion for eureka and have limited access dungeon for island that are on timer that only appear at select limit time frame or when select weather is in play

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Because people mentioned that new content doesn't last very long. And I made a comment that content would have a longer lifespan if it wasnt so
braindead easy it could all be smashed with 2-3 hours of a patch going live..

As it stands new content comes out and you actually have to try harder to lose a fight than you do to beat it.. and the thought of upping the difficulty just a touch and people were like omg gordias!!!!

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Addressing a couple of things I read from others.

Not necessarily. There's nothing there to support that harder content actually lasts longer, especially if you're looking for mass appeal. The extremes, savages and ultimates would tell you people would knock it out quickly and things are back to being dead. Well, let me put it this way: outside of glamour and maybe bragging rights (is that really a thing?), the old savages and ultimates are not progged. Hell, as a tier goes on longer and longer, the harder it is to even start, outside of a static, and when a new tier drops, you're back to square one.

If anything, Eureka lasts longer than the harder content, and was more accessible, but that doesn't mean it was largely enjoyable. The amount of people running something doesn't exactly mean it was well received, especially if you tack something on at the end to purposely appeal to a certain crowd to entice them (Baldesion Arsenal) into that less desirable stuff. Then you get people to slog through and on paper it'll say % of people did X content. None of that says it was liked.

As for ridiculous grinds gating progression, this has proven ineffective, too, as ARR relics had been gained in 24 hours. Outside of camping time-gated NMs, this probably would have been the case in Eureka as well. I wouldn't underestimate the people that are willing to put in some serious time for brain dead grind. I'm not even suggesting it'd be remotely close to the majority of people, but there's going to be groups all the same that will then effect other groups of people.

To make content that lasts does not necessarily mean it needs to be new, just revised and revisited. Since the topic is of Eureka, there are 4 instances: Anemons, Pagos, Pyros and Hydatos. Unless XIV gives us a reason to travel back to these places, there's no reason to go back. There's ample lore to work with in regards to having potential reasons to go back: Sharlayan land, Ascians and the Rejoining are all part of the Isle of Val and the Students of Baldesion. Doing this causes two things immediately: makes older content rejuvenated while adds something more (as opposed to roulettes to run old content; they add nothing new nor rejuvenates them).

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

This was only a problem for the first couple weeks when said NM rewarded a paltry 10 crystals. Once they buffed that to 30, everyone practically tripped over themselves to kill it. I did a LOT of BA and it was never an issue.

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Glad to hear your experience with it was better than mine, I wasn't fortunate enough to not have that NM be an issue, or perhaps my luck is just not that great. Putting that aside, though, the design choice remains terrible imo. It may have been fine in the short term, when Eureka was active, but now that it's essentially dead, getting through Absolute Virtue, while not impossible, is not exactly the easiest of feats. Unless you can somehow convince a significant number of people to come in to deal with the NM, or you have a support group of 8 people that will not mess up a single time against the NM, your chances of getting to even attempt Absolute Virtue are fairly slim. In the long term, that mechanic just feels like an overly excessive gate for people who couldn't make it in time for the BA gold rush, and I feel like it would need to be revised if the devs intend to keep BA viable, or, better yet, find a way to keep Eureka alive. Based on how things went with Diadem's emergengy missions, though, I very much doubt will happen. I find that a shame, though. The story behind Eureka was better than what I was expecting, and it had a good bit of lore behind it (not to mention that letting all of that content die out feels like a terrible waste). I wish they found a way to keep the place from a perma-dead state to give people who were late for it a chance to experience it without the pain that is trying to get through Eureka when it's empty (which will most likely turn people off from going through it right at Anemos).

"Eureka wasn't so bad".

Yes. Yes it was. Hands down the worst bit of content this game has ever seen-and potentially the MMO genre in general has ever seen.

So much wasted resources making these gorgeous zones just to have it devolve into a fate train every single time. Awful. Just make people do fates in the zones we already have next time, less resources for the same effect.

I would hope they come up with a plan for the current Eureka before adding a new one. A lot of content is designed with only the here and now in mind, I don't think they spend enough time thinking about what a piece of content is going to look like down the line, or ways to keep content active other than 'put it in a roulette'.