Perma shelved my DRK: No role, no idenity, no lore, no worthwhile skills, no fun

job gauges are just screen bloat 80% of the time
there is simple mode
but there really should be status mode

Similar to how things were in HW or how buffs like Storms eye are some things just dont need a entire gauge on your screen
PLD would just need to be "Oath gauge ready" "oath gauge ready ²"

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Originally Posted by Duskane

job gauges are just screen bloat 80% of the time
there is simple mode
but there really should be status mode

Similar to how things were in HW or how buffs like Storms eye are some things just dont need a entire gauge on your screen
PLD would just need to be "Oath gauge ready" "oath gauge ready ²"

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I really do miss the old buff images, wish they kept them and gave us a choice between all three.

Please, yes. Just let us get rid of the gauges entirely. Aetherflow being a gauge drives me crazy too.

The hell are you all complaining about? DRK is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo awesooooooome like for reals. its awesome. it is.

some noob bs
a - no more DA spam - thats good right?
b- we got shit cleave, pretty impactful, till you try it next to a real warrior on striking dummy, right?
c - still the worst tank, you just dont have to try as hard to still suck worse

i liked drk before and i still do despite it's very different to how it started at


PS. TC if you have so much to say you either don't get to the point or you don't have one at all.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

i liked drk before and i still do despite it's very different to how it started at


PS. TC if you have so much to say you either don't get to the point or you don't have one at all.

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HW/SB DRK just needed a reward/risk gameplay more so the single target play, none of this was addressed, at all.

Calling it now.

Dark Arts'd EoS/FoS will direct/crit in 5.05, as an address to the "risk/reward" argument. (I.e. the dark arts proc will ensure the next eos/fos will also direct crit)
SE just gonna take the simplest approach to adjustments.

BUT HEY, IF IT'S JUST GONNA BE MORE LIKE WAR, LETS GO FURTHER DOWN THAT RABBIT HOLE.
5.1 prediction:
Minus Strike. 20 Blackblood cost. 25s recast. Deals 400 potency, with additional potency the lower your MP pool is.

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Originally Posted by Danelo

Okay, I see what you mean in that regard and for the most part agreed.

There's a million different things the devs could have done to lean into DRK having a burst window besides copying another class. It defeats the purpose of having different jobs, right? I feel like if the trend of DRK being a WAR clone, except one expansion behind, continues then we've already seen what we have to look forward to. I wouldn't be opposed to a blood combo or something other than current delirium. It lacks ingenuity, from my prospective, and I was hoping for more depth.

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Indeed, they could have easily and I'm making this up right this second, made it a proc based buster tank using a "punishment" meter that builds up by doing and taking damage, the higher it is the more damage it does when the skill procs, if they don't want to make it feel like DRKs from other FFs at least make use of FFXIV's lore then.

But no, let's make it a clunky WAR instead.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Indeed, they could have easily and I'm making this up right this second, made it a proc based buster tank using a "punishment" meter that builds up by doing and taking damage, the higher it is the more damage it does when the skill procs, if they don't want to make it feel like DRKs from other FFs at least make use of FFXIV's lore then.

But no, let's make it a clunky WAR instead.

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bUt ThAt WoUlD wIdEn ThE gAp BeTwEeN tHe SkIlL fLoOr AnD cEiLiNg

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Originally Posted by Lyth

You do realise that you spent the past year or so complaining that the Stormblood Dark Arts system was clunky and needed a rework, right?

"There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it."

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Patient: "Doc, I've got a problem with my leg."

After examination, the doctor confirms that major surgery will be required. Schedules him in immediately, sedates him an hour later, and a couple hours after that, the patient awakes to find his leg gone.

Doctor: "There, now the leg is not a problem. Good?"

Some common sense is probably worth applying to requests for improvement. That a request could be misconstrued does not make the outcome necessarily deserved.

You should probably have read the post that I quoted. It states that anyone who felt that the Stormblood iteration of DRK was "clunky" was probably bad at it. I just closed the loop with two quotes.

And false analogies aside, yes, actually, there are times where you do have to amputate a limb to save a life. I don't think that you necessarily have to agree with the new rework. But I don't understand why some of the same people who demanded this rework back from 4.0-4.2 are now turning around and pretending like DRK in Stormblood was the best thing ever and acting like they want to go back.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

You should probably have read the post that I quoted. It states that anyone who felt that the Stormblood iteration of DRK was "clunky" was probably bad at it. I just closed the loop with two quotes.

And false analogies aside, yes, actually, there are times where you do have to amputate a limb to save a life. I don't think that you necessarily have to agree with the new rework. But I don't understand why some of the same people who demanded this rework back from 4.0-4.2 are now turning around and pretending like DRK in Stormblood was the best thing ever and acting like they want to go back.

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Because DRK, while not meta, was the most unique "feeling" of the tank jobs. all of the tank jobs followed a pretty straight forward rotation, things that naturally come off CD to line up as most jobs will. DRK.... still had things line up but it was more in your control to have that happen. You decided how to spend your MP and balance it out, the illusion of choice. While illusion of choice is still inevitably the same either way, its part of what makes playing the job feel unique and reminds you this is a game that allows people to play differently to some degrees. Personally I'm just not a fan of 5.0 DRK, the animations are nice but the synergy isn't there to me anymore, it got dumbed down hard. SB was an improvement while still lacking but it worked and was interesting enough to learn. I still say if they left the DA mechanic alone and just applied to to our edge/flood abilities instead, it'd at least be a bit more fun. If I could get a personal wish though, I'd just ask for a general overhaul to make it into an MP zerker or the "magic tank" people want.... not magic vulnerability tanking to be precise, just magical themed aesthetics considering MP is a large part of the job.

DRK had no choice over how to spend resources in Stormblood. If you didn't spend the MP as you gained it, you hit cap and incurred a dps loss. The reason that you didn't have a choice was because the rate of MP generation was very large in comparison to your MP capacity. Heavensward and Shadowbringers, by comparison, have a much lower rate of MP generation relative to your MP capacity.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

DRK had no choice over how to spend resources in Stormblood. If you didn't spend the MP as you gained it, you hit cap and incurred a dps loss. The reason that you didn't have a choice was because the rate of MP generation was very large in comparison to your MP capacity. Heavensward and Shadowbringers, by comparison, have a much lower rate of MP generation relative to your MP capacity.

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This is again taking into account "the meta" which is assuming "DPS IS EVERYTHING". Some people... while few understand or want to acknowledge this... play the job for... idk.. "fun"? I know it's quite unheard of but some people actually used their MP for things like dark passenger rarely(meaning more than not at all), who liked protecting another party member with a TBN, or had loads of fun tanking masses in trash pulls for tons of Quietus/Abyssal Drain HP gain/etc madness.

You did have a choice, you only didn't if your mindset was only specifically to be as is a dps, when you're in fact a tank. This is speaking for most regular content in mind too, nothing hardcore or extreme that assumes people specifically play for savage/EX content and need to maximize the utmost potential possible. Your blackblood return for TBN felt more satisfying too since the skills that could use this weren't available to you nearly every 5 seconds of the fight, you had to earn those bloodspillers and it it was satisfying to.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

DRK had no choice over how to spend resources in Stormblood. If you didn't spend the MP as you gained it, you hit cap and incurred a dps loss. The reason that you didn't have a choice was because the rate of MP generation was very large in comparison to your MP capacity. Heavensward and Shadowbringers, by comparison, have a much lower rate of MP generation relative to your MP capacity.

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this is where you are off. SB DRK still pooled resources for Raidbuffs. It was harder yes, with the mp generation being much more burstier compared to the amount you could store at max, but this is kinda what a lot of people, who don't like the rework, think of, when they say that the new DRk is very simple and easy compared to the old one. And no it wasn't too hard to do, most people who tried managed to do it just fine, it was just a lot of people who didn't notice this and now think it's something new, now that it's kinda obvious, i mean ShB Drk generates just enough MP for 4 EoS per minute and darkside max duration is 60 seconds, it's just short of them putting up a sign saing "use 4 times during trick" ( Yes i know you can only hold 3 , this is where the new DA comes in to conveniently provide the fourth).

Tha all being said, ShB DRK doesn't feel as horrible to play as i first thought. And i do think the rework was a step in the right direction, it just feels a bit barebone and unfinished, like it's missing something.

It's more that DRK doesn't feel like a DRK anymore, without his mechanics and the resource management being excessively dumbed down and with the new delirium it's easy to see is a WAR with a black armour throwing mp shintens.

DRK has been consistently gutted each expansion. To the point the devs keep on taking things away from DRK and giving them to other Tanks.

Other tanks now have more frequent DoTs, share Reprisal, GNB was given a version of Dark Dance, GNB shares Dark Missionary with DRK. Except Warrior the rest lost Convalescence which hurts. DRK lost their blind which helped with mitigation in dungeons. They took away BLOOD PRICE for whatever reason. Removed the MP gain on Quietus as well as making sure you only get MP from one mob instead of all of them.

And we no longer inflict Int down to decrease outgoing Magic damage for the raid so there's that too. Abyssal got wrecked, Salted Earth makes everyone salty for low duration, low damage, long CD and no longer generates Blood. Sole Survivor got moved to PVP only so great you lost some sustain in PVE.

And it got progressively less fun when they took away the dodge tank combo of DADD + DADP and God Mode sustain of Blood Price + DA Abyssal Drain.

And waaaaaay back they took away Scourge which everyone hated to lose only to technically get it back in the form of Frey at lvl 80.

And of all the shit they took away they made sure not only was it unchanged but that we absolutely have to keep Living Dead. And that right there is baffling.

And ONE MORE THING...TBN no longer generates Blood and is used on Edge instead of Bloodspiller which is weaker.

Darkside is also weaker being 10% increase instead of 20%.

Ridiculous.

On the bright side though we get MP regeneration so you can absolutely use Mana potions every 4-5 minutes if you want to.

Well that's bcs DRK, a job that don't sacrifice HP as form of life it's a job that sacrificed skills and mechanics that make him live, his own essence his own life and identity to only have nothing, to only have what other jobs can give him to keep sacrificing more and more until the only thing that remain to sacrificed is himself and no longer is in the game, that's the future of DRK, what we have it's just a empty shell of his former self.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

DRK has been consistently gutted each expansion. To the point the devs keep on taking things away from DRK and giving them to other Tanks.

Other tanks now have more frequent DoTs, share Reprisal, GNB was given a version of Dark Dance, GNB shares Dark Missionary with DRK. Except Warrior the rest lost Convalescence which hurts. DRK lost their blind which helped with mitigation in dungeons. They took away BLOOD PRICE for whatever reason. Removed the MP gain on Quietus as well as making sure you only get MP from one mob instead of all of them.

And we no longer inflict Int down to decrease outgoing Magic damage for the raid so there's that too. Abyssal got wrecked, Salted Earth makes everyone salty for low duration, low damage, long CD and no longer generates Blood. Sole Survivor got moved to PVP only so great you lost some sustain in PVE.

And it got progressively less fun when they took away the dodge tank combo of DADD + DADP and God Mode sustain of Blood Price + DA Abyssal Drain.

And waaaaaay back they took away Scourge which everyone hated to lose only to technically get it back in the form of Frey at lvl 80.

And of all the shit they took away they made sure not only was it unchanged but that we absolutely have to keep Living Dead. And that right there is baffling.

And ONE MORE THING...TBN no longer generates Blood and is used on Edge instead of Bloodspiller which is weaker.

Darkside is also weaker being 10% increase instead of 20%.

Ridiculous.

On the bright side though we get MP regeneration so you can absolutely use Mana potions every 4-5 minutes if you want to.

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Couldn't have said it better myself! The devs literally killed DRK this expansion.

Dark Knight should get the name of their tank stance "Grit" changed to "Brain Dead."

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Originally Posted by Valic

This is again taking into account "the meta" which is assuming "DPS IS EVERYTHING". Some people... while few understand or want to acknowledge this... play the job for... idk.. "fun"?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valic

You did have a choice, you only didn't if your mindset was only specifically to be as is a dps, when you're in fact a tank. This is speaking for most regular content in mind too, nothing hardcore or extreme that assumes people specifically play for savage/EX content and need to maximize the utmost potential possible.

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I'm sorry, I think that I'm misunderstanding something about your post. Are you saying that you thought/think that capping blood and/or mp was...somehow..."fun"? Spending your mp/blood so that you didn't cap isn't being meta, it is literally one of the bare minimum requirements to play Drk! I'm not even talking about hardcore content either. How low you went or how much to spent at a time was being DPS mindful.

Heck, what's worse was that being DPS mindful with Drk in SB was a lesson in futility because the gains were so low. Just as an example, if you lined up exactly 5 GCDS in 10 sec trick attack window and AND DA on all of them then your total DPS gain was a total of 70 potency (140×10%×5) over just doing the same attacks without DA.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

And waaaaaay back they took away Scourge which everyone hated to lose only to technically get it back in the form of Frey at lvl 80.


And ONE MORE THING...TBN no longer generates Blood and is used on Edge instead of Bloodspiller which is weaker.

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you know there a difference between ogcd and gcd skills?

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

you know there a difference between ogcd and gcd skills?

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It takes Living Shadow 5 seconds to start doing anything. Sooooooo it's an oGCD with a 5 second GCD to get started.

And unlike Scourge you can't multi dot.

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Originally Posted by Sancho_Nyanta

I'm sorry, I think that I'm misunderstanding something about your post. Are you saying that you thought/think that capping blood and/or mp was...somehow..."fun"? Spending your mp/blood so that you didn't cap isn't being meta, it is literally one of the bare minimum requirements to play Drk! I'm not even talking about hardcore content either. How low you went or how much to spent at a time was being DPS mindful.

Heck, what's worse was that being DPS mindful with Drk in SB was a lesson in futility because the gains were so low. Just as an example, if you lined up exactly 5 GCDS in 10 sec trick attack window and AND DA on all of them then your total DPS gain was a total of 70 potency (140×10%×5) over just doing the same attacks without DA.

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So what if I'm at 80% MP and I over cap back to 100%? Even so, you had more room than you give credit to spend MP. I could DA at least 4 times with all of my MP full, meaning so long as I was in the middle there, I could DA. Or TBN.... Frankly I could use MP on whatever the hell I felt like and I was the one who decided this, not some setup rotation nonsense.

I don't line up trick attack, I aso don't give a gosh dang darn about TA in any content aside from released savage content. So. yeah.. I don't think you and me are gonna see eye to eye on this one lol... Just saying DRK was more fun before because of that control over how you spent our MP and for what instead of it being for only 1-2 skills now.Really is just 2 tbh, a singular and aoe version of the same skill that gives you your buff/ogcd and a shield that if broken gives you the other option for free.

The 2nd half or you post to me is ".... I don't even pay attention to that nonsense".

The first half to me is ".... its a game. I'm not gonna provide 120% perfection dps all the time for efficiency sake, I'll do my bet and play the job well to my knowledge but I genuinely don't care if I make a mistake in rotation that loses me some potency in my rotation at all because part of this job's fun is the control over your MP pool". Sometimes I'd have absolutely no MP cuz I just used it on an emergency TBN hoping it'd immediately get me a Delirium ready for my next bloodsword/blood price. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't... always was a variable and made an impact... Now its just a free reset on a timer that already is ridiculously easy to keep up".

Dark missionary animation is just Dark mind but faster and in reverse

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

It takes Living Shadow 5 seconds to start doing anything. Sooooooo it's an oGCD with a 5 second GCD to get started.

And unlike Scourge you can't multi dot.

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Anyting that doesnt share recast time with your 2.5 cooldown skills is calledc ogcd my man.

I was amazed how dumbed down they made it.

Leveled GNB first for something new this xpac, a shitload of buttons to press and some thought into how to properly maintain rotation.

Warrior came second as it was my main and prolly still will be now, dumbed down from SB, but still a bit of thought goes into it.

Then I tried DRK

No damage buff to maintain, no debuff on the enemy to maintain, a 1-2-3 combo with no choices anywhere throughout it, I didn't think they could make a classes rotation so easy, but my god they did. I still "like" it, especially if I don't feel like actual thinking that day, but god damn did they give that class no semblance of actual skill or thought process

Ah yes, the level 70 DRK experience. Such deep insights that can only be gained from optimising in levelling roulette content. I mean, you can play any job badly and think it's easy, especially since the game doesn't give you constructive feedback when you're playing poorly.

If you want to compare jobs, it's better to compare GNB and PLD. Both follow relatively strict rotations without any actual resource management (yes, there are resources, but they are generated and spent as part of a set timeline). Actually, I'm surprised that nobody seems to mention this, but PLD simply blows GNB out of the water when it comes to rotational complexity.

I like it more now in harder content than I did in Stormblood. I hope it sticks as is with minor tweaks here and there. It's just bleh in easier content because there's not multiple mechanics to work with.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I like it more now in harder content than I did in Stormblood. I hope it sticks as is with minor tweaks here and there. It's just bleh in easier content because there's not multiple mechanics to work with.

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I feel that way with every job right now.

yeah thats right bcs DRK change gameplay perspective change when you get edge and flood upgrades since.... oh wait they don't, that was living shadow because... ups nope, stalwart soul that one, looks like its lvl 72 and only aoes humm.

you know you don't need a extreme or a savage to try yourself a rotation and general feeling of the job when the large mayority of the playerbase don't do this content, you only need a dummy and you can imagine a TA uptime since you have bw that have 60s CD as a reference, for real combat experience any dungeon boss is worthy since it cover all kind of mechanics that force you avoid aoes, boss running out of you range and actually a great variety of mechanics that force you readdapt you rotation, positioning the boss and a large ect, hilariously i tend to find certain dungeon bosses more annoying to play properly that savage ones. the day DRK have a important skill that change you gameplay like PLD at lvl 76 and lvl 78 i will agree with anyone that say you need DRK to certain level to fully build a personal opinion.

with all tanks being fairly easy i find PLD the most complex follow by WAR/GNB and DRK the last one by far.

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Originally Posted by shao32

yeah thats right bcs DRK change gameplay perspective change when you get edge and flood upgrades since.... oh wait they don't, that was living dead because... ups nope, stalwart soul that one, looks like its lvl 72 and only aoes humm.

you know you don't need a extreme or a savage to try yourself a rotation and general feeling of the job when the large mayority of the playerbase don't do this content, you only need a dummy and you can imagine a TA uptime since you have bw that have 60s CD as a reference, for real combat experience any dungeon boss is worthy since it cover all kind of mechanics that force you avoid aoes, boss running out of you range and actually a great variety of mechanics that force you readdapt you rotation, positioning the boss and a large ect, hilariously i tend to find certain dungeon bosses more annoying to play properly that savage ones. the day DRK have a important skill that change you gameplay like PLD at lvl 76 and lvl 78 i will agree with anyone that say you need DRK to certain level to fully build a personal opinion.

with all tanks being fairly easy i find PLD the most complex follow by WAR/GNB and DRK the last one by far.

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Can you really say that about PLD though? After you learn atonement, that's pretty much the only time your gameplay changes. The lvl 78 trait is just inner release and instead of waiting for the holy spirit/holy circle cast timer to finish, now you just wait for it to come off the gcd (it really feels like the same amount of time tbh).

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Originally Posted by jetfire117

Can you really say that about PLD though? After you learn atonement, that's pretty much the only time your gameplay changes. The lvl 78 trait is just inner release and instead of waiting for the holy spirit/holy circle cast timer to finish, now you just wait for it to come off the gcd (it really feels like the same amount of time tbh).

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from my personal experience yes atonement changes you gameplay and rotation bcs changes how you have to dealt with it, its a nice adition, simple but something you have to get use to it so i find it a gameplay point of inflexion to keep in mind, for the trait yes is a huge change, PLD use to dealt with the cast bars and this trait can affect greatly how you feel about the requiem cast window, for me it was a big change since im not fan of the cast bars at all and PLD have a mindset of casting holy spirit since ever. like or not the inner cast aside the trait offer great changes to how you feel playing the job compared to his SB version specially igf you was a PLD main or a player that is leveling the job now and the first thing you have to get use is with the casted holy spirits until lvl 78, besides confietor adds a personal touch and something to keep in mind every time you use requem cast, im still not fan of the mechanic but is no so brainless as delirium.

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Originally Posted by jetfire117

Can you really say that about PLD though? After you learn atonement, that's pretty much the only time your gameplay changes.

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Intervene is new, Atonement is new, Holy Circle gives you a magic AoE phase you didn't have before, and Confiteor give you a magic finish.

For DRK...Stalwart Soul changes your AoE gameplay, and Living Shadow is...well, there.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Intervene is new, Atonement is new, Holy Circle gives you a magic AoE phase you didn't have before, and Confiteor give you a magic finish.

For DRK...Stalwart Soul changes your AoE gameplay, and Living Shadow is...well, there.

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Since you mentioned this, I had to check WAR and GNB out of curiosity. Apparently PLD is the only one who gets big changes in rotation while leveling up this expansion as a tank. WAR gets only the upgrades to Decimate and Fell Cleave when using Infuriate (which changes nothing). GNB just gets Faded Circle, and you already mentioned DRK. PLD is the only tank that gets any real gameplay changes past 72.

Newer player here, only finished Stormblood a few days after Shb launched even. And I am so so unhappy with the changes they've made to DRK. Never played it's HW iteration but I enjoyed the SB version a lot. When I was levelling paladin my fc leader said to me yeah paladin is only 1,2,3 till 50. Now DRK is 123 + OGCD till 72 where I have an aoe combo again. I hate it. I hate the changes to abyssal drain, to my little floor aoe and that it's just a gimped warrior with inferior mitigation and not even the damage to make up for it. I don't like living dead, my healers hate it too. And overall when I am going to do extreme's like titania and innocence players look at me and groan cuz they're stuck with the gimp tank. Missing phys mitigation makes no sense when the other tanks mitigate magic the same as DRK. And other tanks still having good self heals for big dungeon pulls while I'm stuck with my ONE use of abyssal and tbn is horrid. Some wall to wall pulls like that are no longer as fun, esp if my healer is an astro that's not entirely on point with their gameplay. Nobody should see a class icon and go ugh I have that class with me. But they are for DRK's.

I used to absolutely love the faster pace of this tank, I loved doing giant pulls an seeing abyssal drain save my ass an spam quietus for the mp to do so along w my DA. It was so satisfying. Now its 1,2,3 ogcd… hmm pop a cd maybe? I hate the fact in general they've homogenized the gameplay. Everyone is the same its all jus different skins on the same core things. Except DRK gets gimped a bit. Like srsly.. My tank main is DRK, my healer main WAS astro.. only my Summoner got out ok and even that's a lot of buttons for small damage vs others :/ Hate when devs dumb down a gameplay because people refuse to learn.

I want faster gameplay back, cool animations back, proper mitigation and to actually have to think and adapt to situations again. If I wanted the kind of burst phase a warrior has I'd have played one, why have you made me a 2nd rate warrior?

Smaller complaints being why is my second gap closer at 78?? My 2nd AoE skill at 72 so in any roulette I'm left without it?

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Originally Posted by Lyth

If you want to compare jobs, it's better to compare GNB and PLD. Both follow relatively strict rotations without any actual resource management (yes, there are resources, but they are generated and spent as part of a set timeline). Actually, I'm surprised that nobody seems to mention this, but PLD simply blows GNB out of the water when it comes to rotational complexity.

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excuse you nani the what?
PLD doesn't have a rotating GCD with a recast that, after long enough, can slightly desync from your regular gameplay loop, requiring what, every third no mercy window to be adjusted slightly to compensate for that.

PLD rotation is pretty much like Dragoons

Auto pilot

Desyncing is an issue that any job on a fixed rotation has to deal with.

It's also the only issue that fixed rotation jobs have to deal with, once you learn the rotation. PLD has a longer rotation with more variety, while the sole highlight of GNB gameplay is the Dark Arts combo between stretches of 1-2-3. It's not that either are supposed to be particularly challenging, but you should compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. I don't see how you can make the claim that GNB isn't autopilot, though, especially if you're claiming that other fixed rotation jobs with more elaborate rotations are (i.e. Dragoon, etc.).

I think paladin and gunbreaker are really totally fine.

Warrior to me feels kind of slow and i can feel my dps is lacking compared to other tanks when i'm not in the big burst window. Speeding up the infuriates a bit more and making storm's eye less of a thorn in the side is about all they need though to be in line with paladin and gunbreaker imo and onslought needs to not cost rage it seems to be a dps loss even using it to close a gap.

A lot of people disagree with me i think but i feel like dark knight's main annoyance is all the ogc skills that are just like "using it is technically better than not using it" while the majority of their kit is just vanilla damage and nothing else skills that would be a lot more interesting if that stuff was integrated
like carve and spit is probably the best one and it feels crap compared to blasting zone while having twice the cooldown

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Originally Posted by Nihility

I think paladin and gunbreaker are really totally fine.

Warrior to me feels kind of slow and i can feel my dps is lacking compared to other tanks when i'm not in the big burst window. Speeding up the infuriates a bit more and making storm's eye less of a thorn in the side is about all they need though to be in line with paladin and gunbreaker imo and onslought needs to not cost rage it seems to be a dps loss even using it to close a gap.

A lot of people disagree with me i think but i feel like dark knight's main annoyance is all the ogc skills that are just like "using it is technically better than not using it" while the majority of their kit is just vanilla damage and nothing else skills that would be a lot more interesting if that stuff was integrated
like carve and spit is probably the best one and it feels crap compared to blasting zone while having twice the cooldown

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I mean PLD and GNB have nice burst windows that let you know when to push literally everything, and then relax until Fof/Requiescat and No mercy is up again. DRK is missing a window like that which makes it feel like you're just pressing stuff to just press it. I personally don't know how to go about combating that, but I would love of carve n' spit and blood weapon to have a shorter CD. There's too much of a downtime after using blood weapon and delirium. Sometimes when your ogcds line up with fray, it's a very nice feeling of using all of your skills while he also does the same.