Crossover events and breaking immersion

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Originally Posted by White_Wolf_X

https://media.tenor.com/images/ade03...7bd4/tenor.gif

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I mean, to be fair, the OP has a point. Many people are turned off by the complete disregard this game shows for immersion at times. Some even refuse to play the game at all because of it.

However, the real question should be this: should we care?

I don't.

but muh immersive roleplay reee

I hope this a joke. You're talking about crossover events breaking "immersion" when you have the Gold Saucer which is from FF7. You have various raids from other FF games such as FF8/FF Tactics and the Nier Raid, etc. But you only talk about crossover events. What.....Idk.

I think that, at this current point of the game, it's better for the people who value immersion to come to terms that this will not be a thing at all, no matter how many times you make a case for it. Perhaps some of you of the immersion crowd finally made peace with that. Some of you made compromises and kept stretching your lines. So I guess this particular post is for the crowd that is still hanging on desperately onto the tiniest shred of hope that immersion will be restored at some point:

It won't.

I say this from a point of care: find another place for your immersion. No really. You will only aggravate yourselves into thinking "oh maybe in the future, they'll stop adding really out of this world stuff into the game".

They won't. Save yourselves the time and agony and play another game that truly cares for immersion.

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Originally Posted by Derio

The Producer of the game stated that FFXIV is a theme park. I dont know how you can break immersion in a theme park by adding new themes.

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This. And besides, immersion varies from person to person. If you're trying to find an original, authentic experience here, this isn't really the right game for that. I can understand people's misgivings with certain cross-overs like Yokai Watch and Monster Hunter, but that's not really going to change unless the devs decide to take a new approach in the future.

Ideally I'd much rather spend time on quests that expand on the existing FFXIV universe than bring content from other games that are like cramming a square peg into a circle hole. I'm not a fan of crossovers either, but as long as they find a way to make it work in the FFXIV universe I've come to accept them even though I've yet to experience one I cared about personally - Nier, FFXII, FFXV, Garo, Monster Hunter - I do not know about or care for these things, but the content was interesting and the rewards were nice.

But for immersion specifically, quests outside of the MSQ go a bit off anyway sometimes - like what even is Hildibrand? He operates outside a lot of the game logic but it's fun and they made it work - it's the same with cross-overs, the difference is just that Hildi is home-brewed crazy while others are imported from other games crazy and NPCs having to deal with either just kinda accept that they're there for the ride.

*drives up in FF15 car in full frog suit*

This new Nier crap is breaking my immersion. Not like that Ivalice event.

People in metallic bikinis and hot pink frog suits standing behind me in MSQ roulette do more to break my immersion than any crossover event ever has. And those are part of the base game. :P

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

I hope this a joke. You're talking about crossover events breaking "immersion" when you have the Gold Saucer which is from FF7. You have various raids from other FF games such as FF8/FF Tactics and the Nier Raid, etc. But you only talk about crossover events. What.....Idk.

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That seems a bit disingenuous. One is reference. The other, crossover.

Gold Saucer is a casino built by an entrepreneur established among XIV characters and hailing from a city which, from the beginning, has been the base of vastly wealthy businessmen. Someone who'd never played FF7 would have no reason to expect it wasn't side-content solely for XIV and coming solely from XIV.

Leaving a giant city inside a hill that takes all of 12 seconds to fly over, using not a single established XIV character, is hardly the same thing.

Cid is a reference. Most players will know that our Cid is one of many. But he's still distinctly XIV's Cid, who was built around XIV's world specifically.

NieR is a crossover. It has no connection to XIV except in that it was tossed in there, with only the narrowest excuse of preceding plot -- we see hole, we go down hole, we see 2B butt, we follow 2B butt, something, something, city inside hole inside hill far smaller than said city.

I'm not going to rage over it or anything, but I felt that the FFXV crossover event was a bit on the nose, and I actually skipped out on getting the mount because I knew I'd never use it due to the aesthetic not matching the rest of the game (I'm someone who will use artefact gear glamours all the time, rather than funny or novel outfits). I don't feel this way at all about the Nier crossover, though; it feels like a synthesis between FFXIV and Nier, rather than a clumsy grafting of the latter onto the former.

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Originally Posted by purgatori

I don't feel this way at all about the Nier crossover, though; it feels like a synthesis between FFXIV and Nier, rather than a clumsy grafting of the latter onto the former.

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It helps that the true ending for Nier: Automata made it a bit more plausible.

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

*drives up in FF15 car in full frog suit*

This new Nier crap is breaking my immersion. Not like that Ivalice event.

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To be fair, people complained the heck out of both the Fenrir bike and XV's Regalia.

And at least the Ivalice event tied into a globetrotting expansion of trying to discover the extent of the Garlean empire's reach and unite other powers in avenging themselves against said empire. In that sense, it was just one more land, albeit one without an actual zone (though we could say the same for HW 24-mans which nonetheless fit right in, or the World of Darkness raid back in ARR) wherein to discover the empire's wrongdoings and find secrets and potential allies. Par for the course.

We're in a world literally called final FANTASY, meaning dreams and ideas beyond reality and comprehension are plausible in a universe where magic, monsters, and story are the most centralized theme. Why do people get so upset when the devs do such a great job at implementing crossovers into this game while still maintaining a semblance of immersion and lore acceptability? Take the MHW event crossover, that was fun as heck both MHW side(and still is) and it's fun over here... Lore-wise they both fit the criteria enough to be reasonable and not "immersion destroying". Same with the FF15 crossover, the writing may be a lil half assed sometimes but it still fits/works? We see beings from alternate dimensions almost as if it's a daily routine at this point, why is one other thing happening somehow now considered "oh no, this one is just unplayable" lol.

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Originally Posted by Allooutrick

I'm with you there. It's always weird to see the car from Final Fantasy 15 as a mount. Like, why is that the only instance of a car in the game? The Monster Hunter themed dungeon was ok to me. If I didn't know better, I probably would've never guessed.

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Like to add to this one for a second.... If we look back to every other FF, there are "cars" in those games. There's also magitek gorillas, literally fking robots, and so on. IIRC, even the char dialogue is something along the lines of "what's a car?". Something I tend to realize in this game and others that act akin to it... There is such an idea as seeing something unusual in the universe just as we would IRL. Being a someone in FFXIV and seeing a "Car" without ever seeing one before, knowing what one is, or etc... Shouldn't it border more on the line of "must be some new fancy magitek" or "I've never seen such a thing before" or "this place is always coming out with something new"? Idk, I don't mind the cars and such when magitek and robots are already almost everywhere or explained as an allag invention. If anything, I only realize in universe we're starting to develop reasonable technological advances and prioritize development when we see something beneficial to the future of Eorzea etc etc (I sound like I'm RP'ing here at this point). Point being... It doesn't bother me unless it's truly bizarre or explainable, or illogical. A carriage with wheels that looks long, sleek, and runs off aether/magic/electricity/steam/whateverthehellyouwannacallit.... Isn't all that immersion breaking in a universe where we have tons of that as is molded into different concepts. Now... Take Tera for example and it adding a police car in a world where no one should know wtf a police car is or red/blue lights etc.... Yeah no, that was added no explanation for lore and makes no sense.

TL;DR: If your immersion breaks upon seeing a machine that has wheels and chairs, Magitek must be friggin APPALLING then every time you've come across it in the MSQ. Again, we live in a grand universe of magic and fantasy, embrace the ideas and the fact they even have lore to explain their existence in the world whereas most mmo's will shove them in without any care/explanation because "LULZ IT LOOKS FUNNY".

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Originally Posted by Valic

We're in a world literally called final FANTASY, meaning dreams and ideas beyond reality and comprehension are plausible in a universe where magic, monsters, and story are the most centralized theme. Why do people get so upset when the devs do such a great job at implementing crossovers into this game while still maintaining a semblance of immersion and lore acceptability? Take the MHW event crossover, that was fun as heck both MHW side(and still is) and it's fun over here... Lore-wise they both fit the criteria enough to be reasonable and not "immersion destroying". Same with the FF15 crossover, the writing may be a lil half assed sometimes but it still fits/works? We see beings from alternate dimensions almost as if it's a daily routine at this point, why is one other thing happening somehow now considered "oh no, this one is just unplayable" lol.

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I dunno man. Like we just fought an alien killer robot that had the power to bring other things from other unisveres and whatnot. Literally a sonic boss in some aspects. A car or a bike is such small things compared to a boss who has the power to bring whatever he wants to life.. and came from outter space like he was a reject from mega man 8. >.>

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Originally Posted by monk-dps

I dunno man. Like we just fought an alien killer robot that had the power to bring other things from other unisveres and whatnot. Literally a sonic boss in some aspects. A car or a bike is such small things compared to a boss who has the power to bring whatever he wants to life.. and came from outter space like he was a reject from mega man 8. >.>

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Which boss we talking about here exactly? Neir?

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Originally Posted by Valic

Which boss we talking about here exactly? Neir?

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That'd be Omega.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

That'd be Omega.

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Oh, you mean the allagan created sentinel designed to oppress entities such as primals or giant dragons that grew out of the allagan's reach of control to bind/destroy? It's almost as if an ancient society based on technological advances and study of aether developed a mechanism to traverse the boundaries of time and space in an attempt to better understand their own kind, other worlds, and better themselves to preserve their race/knowledge. Can't imagine a dragon that can travel beyond stars and dimensions(Midgardsomr) that's so powerful it threatened existence to said race and forced their hand to use Omega to track it down and neutralize it.

I'm paraphrasing immensely here because I actually didn't enjoy Omega as a raid until Alphascape 2.0 where it actually used our game's lore rather than just feeding fan service bosses and using the writing as a scapegoat(again, another case where the writing may be crap, but it still works?). Regardless, you get the point here... It's not that SIRfarfetch'd enough that a race eons ago created something to develop their knowledge beyond their star/universe to both protect them and advance their technology. If there's anything I did admire out of Omega, it was not only the tale about Omega tracking down Middy, but the fact it kinda ties the other FF's together with his existence into this game.... Where, again, multiple universes exist with magic, mechas, and so on.

I don't believe he actually had power to bring anything to life. We fought inside an area of his creation using data it's collected over generation and dimensions. It uses that data to simulate pain and the ideas of life that was programmed for it to understand. It also used that data to invent concepts/ideas of the bosses we fought by using stories and etc to develop how they may or may not act and what powers/potential they would be capable of. Considering we have white mages in the past bringing about golems and reanimating structures, as well as earth monsters and mammets.... I can only imagine it's not that far off a machine that has learned to adapt and evolve has learned a basic fundamental understanding of how aether in our world works, comprises our bodies/forms, and how to manipulate it enough to create what he is capable of creating(which is basically anything minus a soul, which is why Alpha is such an outstanding character in that plot line as it somehow developed a soul whereas Omega and all its creations had none).

TL;DR: Flying magitek robot can create phony objects that can walk, talk, act, and pretend to be a thing, but like itself, they will never truly be give "life". And as far as coming from outer space, no it's come from farther places than just there my friend and reasonably so.

EDIT: Strike the majority of that tbh, I'm a moron and forgot the whole story apparently and its 3 am for me lol. Point still stands though.

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Originally Posted by Valic

Oh, you mean the allagan created sentinel designed to oppress entities such as primals or giant dragons that grew out of the allagan's reach of control to bind/destroy? It's almost as if an ancient society based on technological advances and study of aether developed a mechanism to traverse the boundaries of time and space in an attempt to better understand their own kind, other worlds, and better themselves to preserve their race/knowledge. Can't imagine a dragon that can travel beyond stars and dimensions(Midgardsomr) that's so powerful it threatened existence to said race and forced their hand to use Omega to track it down and neutralize it.

I'm paraphrasing immensely here because I actually didn't enjoy Omega as a rid until 2.0+ where it actually used our game's lore rather than just feeding fan service bosses and using the writing as a scapegoat(again, another case where the writing may be crap, but it still works?). Regardless, you get the point here... It's not that SIRfarfetch'd enough that a race eons ago created something to develop their knowledge beyond their star/universe to both protect them and advance their technology. If there's anything I did admire out of Omega, it was not only the tale about Omega tracking down Middy, but the fact it kinda ties the other FF's together with his existence into this game.... Where, again, multiple universes exist with magic, mechas, and so on.

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Omega is not an Allagan creation, they (as far as we know) never went past orbit, and they never figured out time travel (that's Alexander's thing, and he came about long after Allag fell). The Allagans lost track of "bettering themselves" long before their fall when they fell into rampant hedonism and abused their technology in increasingly horrific ways. Midgardsormr had no known interactions with the Allagans at all, and they did not send Omega to track him anywhere; nor would they have to send Omega beyond the stars, since both Middy and Omega were already on Hydaelyn before the Allagan Empire ever arose. Midgardsormr never "threatened existence", he fell here as a refugee after Omega wiped out his planet.

Please rewatch the cut scenes for the Omega raid before you try to use them as a talking point.

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Originally Posted by Valic

Oh, you mean the allagan created sentinel designed to oppress entities such as primals or giant dragons that grew out of the allagan's reach of control to bind/destroy? It's almost as if an ancient society based on technological advances and study of aether developed a mechanism to traverse the boundaries of time and space in an attempt to better understand their own kind, other worlds, and better themselves to preserve their race/knowledge. Can't imagine a dragon that can travel beyond stars and dimensions(Midgardsomr) that's so powerful it threatened existence to said race and forced their hand to use Omega to track it down and neutralize it.

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You actually help my point tho. This is in XIV's lore, He is literally the plot to Sonic Battle. Where an ancient race created a being of insane power for whatever purposes that came to life to search for his own meaning to life. Literally sonic battle or any sicfi plot since the dawn of time. When you look at it that way I don't see how people complain about a car not fitting when omega is literally one of the basics of all sicfi plots accross many stories and games.. one being mega man or Sonic the hedgehog. I bring those up cause putting those two games next to XIV looks insane. But what do you know.. XIV is using the same plots as those two games did and many more before it. I'm just saying it's not that far off when you step back and see everything for what it is. It just feels like people look at XIV and think - IT'S OLD ENGLISH TIMES- when it's really not... it's not even set on earth for that to make sense. I shorten the qoute cause this forum sucks.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It helps that the true ending for Nier: Automata made it a bit more plausible.

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Care to elaborate? :)

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Omega is not an Allagan creation, they (as far as we know) never went past orbit, and they never figured out time travel (that's Alexander's thing, and he came about long after Allag fell). The Allagans lost track of "bettering themselves" long before their fall when they fell into rampant hedonism and abused their technology in increasingly horrific ways. Midgardsormr had no known interactions with the Allagans at all, and they did not send Omega to track him anywhere; nor would they have to send Omega beyond the stars, since both Middy and Omega were already on Hydaelyn before the Allagan Empire ever arose. Midgardsormr never "threatened existence", he fell here as a refugee after Omega wiped out his planet.

Please rewatch the cut scenes for the Omega raid before you try to use them as a talking point.

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That's what I wanted to see. Disregarding me being an idiot and forgetting the entirety of the Omega raid story... My point stands, you understand what it is and it doesn't really break immersion from the game considering how the universe works so far. All people have to do is read to understand and bam, immersion saved. Maybe I'm mixing up something to do with Ultima but I swear I thought there was something to do with Omega being something to do with Allag, maybe because I'm relating Nero in all this and the fact we found the dang control pad in Mor Dhona, I forget tbh.... Again though, considering how you laid it out, it doesn't sound very "out of this world" for this game.

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Originally Posted by monk-dps

You actually help my point tho. This is in XIV's lore, He is literally the plot to Sonic Battle. Where an ancient race created a being of insane power for whatever purposes that came to life to search for his own meaning to life. Literally sonic battle or any sicfi plot since the dawn of time. When you look at it that way I don't see how people complain about a car not fitting when omega is literally one of the basics of all sicfi plots accross many stories and games.. one being mega man or Sonic the hedgehog. I bring those up cause putting those two games next to XIV looks insane. But what do you know.. XIV is using the same plots as those two games did and many more before it. I'm just saying it's not that far off when you step back and see everything for what it is. It just feels like people look at XIV and think - IT'S OLD ENGLISH TIMES- when it's really not... it's not even set on earth for that to make sense. I shorten the qoute cause this forum sucks.

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Disregard most of my post tbh, I'm sleepy and apparently forgot the entire plot of the damn thing... In any case, I think we are in agreement then and prolly didn't pick up on the possible sarcasm. I know people who genuinely act like Omega is this "lolwow" thing like it doesn't belong at all (though I wish it was written better). I personally don't relate the things you mention to FFXIV, but you're on point with "how can we say its immersion breaking when its like this?" type deal. Also, you can post and edit a post right after to go beyond the character post limit on these forums.... I agree they suck >_>;

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Omega is not an Allagan creation, they (as far as we know) never went past orbit, and they never figured out time travel (that's Alexander's thing, and he came about long after Allag fell). The Allagans lost track of "bettering themselves" long before their fall when they fell into rampant hedonism and abused their technology in increasingly horrific ways. Midgardsormr had no known interactions with the Allagans at all, and they did not send Omega to track him anywhere; nor would they have to send Omega beyond the stars, since both Middy and Omega were already on Hydaelyn before the Allagan Empire ever arose. Midgardsormr never "threatened existence", he fell here as a refugee after Omega wiped out his planet.

Please rewatch the cut scenes for the Omega raid before you try to use them as a talking point.

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Given how closely that ties to the star creature of XIV's launch cinematic and who takes reference from the very area ARR all begins (Carteneu Flats or however it's spelled)... that hardly makes Omega Weapon as distant from XIV's world and story as, say, the NieR crossover.

And that's not even because it's NieR or because it's got the bosses and aesthetics and characters it does, it's just because it has nearly zero explanation or fit for having ended up in the XIV world. Had we just discovered the city it out in the Light Waste in a temporal pocket caused by some antipolar reaction whatchamahavit to Cid and the CE's breaking time where it briefly shows the distant future of the First Shard after the fall of humanity, or whatever else it might take to actually make its place in XIV's story compelling, there'd be no issue.

But there wasn't. We just meet some brats, go down a mine, blow up some doors, and discover a city down there because... why? and how?... Who knows.

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Originally Posted by Valic

That's what I wanted to see. Disregarding me being an idiot and forgetting the entirety of the Omega raid story... My point stands, you understand what it is and it doesn't really break immersion from the game considering how the universe works so far. All people have to do is read to understand and bam, immersion saved. Maybe I'm mixing up something to do with Ultima but I swear I thought there was something to do with Omega being something to do with Allag, maybe because I'm relating Nero in all this and the fact we found the dang control pad in Mor Dhona, I forget tbh.... Again though, considering how you laid it out, it doesn't sound very "out of this world" for this game.




Disregard most of my post tbh, I'm sleepy and apparently forgot the entire plot of the damn thing... In any case, I think we are in agreement then and prolly didn't pick up on the possible sarcasm. I know people who genuinely act like Omega is this "lolwow" thing like it doesn't belong at all (though I wish it was written better). I personally don't relate the things you mention to FFXIV, but you're on point with "how can we say its immersion breaking when its like this?" type deal. Also, you can post and edit a post right after to go beyond the character post limit on these forums.... I agree they suck >_>;

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lol yeah I think I missed the edits and stuff.. but yes we're on the same page :D

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Given how closely that ties to the star creature of XIV's launch cinematic and who takes reference from the very area ARR all begins (Carteneu Flats or however it's spelled)... that hardly makes Omega Weapon as distant from XIV's world and story as, say, the NieR crossover.

And that's not even because it's NieR or because it's got the bosses and aesthetics and characters it does, it's just because it has nearly zero explanation or fit for having ended up in the XIV world. Had we just discovered the city it out in the Light Waste in a temporal pocket caused by some antipolar reaction whatchamahavit to Cid and the CE's breaking time where it briefly shows the distant future of the First Shard after the fall of humanity, or whatever else it might take to actually make its place in XIV's story compelling, there'd be no issue.

But there wasn't. We just meet some brats, go down a mine, blow up some doors, and discover a city down there because... why? and how?... Who knows.

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That's less a crossover thing than a Yoko Taro thing. New players in NieR Automata had no idea what was going on until much later in the game, and, even then, didn't really know what was going on until they were several playthroughs deep. Those of us who had come from the original NieR were even more confused. Those who came from Drakengard to the original NieR were mightily confused as well. This is the way... But some things will be explained with time.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Given how closely that ties to the star creature of XIV's launch cinematic and who takes reference from the very area ARR all begins (Carteneu Flats or however it's spelled)... that hardly makes Omega Weapon as distant from XIV's world and story as, say, the NieR crossover.

And that's not even because it's NieR or because it's got the bosses and aesthetics and characters it does, it's just because it has nearly zero explanation or fit for having ended up in the XIV world. Had we just discovered the city it out in the Light Waste in a temporal pocket caused by some antipolar reaction whatchamahavit to Cid and the CE's breaking time where it briefly shows the distant future of the First Shard after the fall of humanity, or whatever else it might take to actually make its place in XIV's story compelling, there'd be no issue.

But there wasn't. We just meet some brats, go down a mine, blow up some doors, and discover a city down there because... why? and how?... Who knows.

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You're kinda jumping the gun a lil too though, we literally don't have the full story. In fact, what we have so far is literally "we dunno anything that's going on but we need to find out". I don't find it that hard to believe on a separate world of existence beyond our own plane that we find ancient mechanical constructs and designs hidden beneath the planet in some fashion. Heck, if we can act like the crystal tower is just there in Mor Dhona for a while until you do the raid and realize there's actually an entire society and so on in there... Who says there can't be a locked away chamber on the First that's been dormant for centuries and is awakening because- TO BE CONTINUED.

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Originally Posted by monk-dps

lol yeah I think I missed the edits and stuff.. but yes we're on the same page :D

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Saw that last post, and I agree entirely. People forget FF as a series has involved both fantasy and sci-fi in a shared environment.

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Originally Posted by monk-dps

... It just feels like people look at XIV and think - IT'S OLD ENGLISH TIMES- when it's really not... it's not even set on earth for that to make sense...

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Exactly.

The post I replied to a couple pages back was saying essentially (paraphrasing) that the crossover raids break "immersion" (I honestly hate this term). They integrate them into the lore. Ivalice content isn't just FF12 and FFT, they literally made a country on Hydaelyn for it all. So rather than just "oh look Balthier and Fran made an oopsie and ended up in Eorzea", they took a lot of time to make Dalmasca/Ivalice part of the world which we may one day visit. It would have been a shame and major uproar if they did a main 24 man raid like how Lightning, Shantotto, and Noctis came for the limited time events.

Or another posted about the Regalia mount breaking immersion. I fail to understand how the car from FFXV being in this game is somehow immersion breaking when we have Magitek being the main force power the antagonistic (to us) nation of Garlemald (like Magitek Armors, the claws, the collosi, airships like the Agrius from 1.0...). We can have a giant god dragon slaying airship that took down Midgardsomr with it, but the Regalia mount is too much? Azys Lla is literally an Allagan floating prison for the Warring Triad and Ratatoskr that we break into with the help of a flying ice lady fighting an enemy magitek airship. But yeah, the Regalia is too much. Same with fat chocobos, they couldn't fly with those tiny wings, physics wouldn't allow it.

If you want to tell me that naked catfish head guy warrior over there constantly jumping and /dote-ing on people is immersion breaking next to your plate mail clad paladin when facing Nidhogg, yeah that would be. If all the 2B cosplayers are annoying you, I can get behind you on that. But some of the complaints in this thread are the least bit "immersion breaking" looking back at some of the things in the lore and story.

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Originally Posted by File2ish

Or another posted about the Regalia mount breaking immersion. I fail to understand how the car from FFXV being in this game is somehow immersion breaking when we have Magitek being the main force power the antagonistic (to us) nation of Garlemald (like Magitek Armors, the claws, the collosi, airships like the Agrius from 1.0...). We can have a giant god dragon slaying airship that took down Midgardsomr with it, but the Regalia mount is too much? Azys Lla is literally an Allagan floating prison for the Warring Triad and Ratatoskr that we break into with the help of a flying ice lady fighting an enemy magitek airship. But yeah, the Regalia is too much. Same with fat chocobos, they couldn't fly with those tiny wings, physics wouldn't allow it.

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I assume you're referring to me, since I mentioned the Regalia? I actually never said that it broke immersion: I said that the aesthetic did not fit with the rest of the game. This is just my subjective opinion, of course, but one which I feel entitled to hold. And I certainly never said anything that could be construed as it being THE thing which is out of keeping with the rest of the game's aesthetic. There are plenty of things that fall into category, in my opinion; but I wanted to allude to the fact that my threshold for aesthetic deviation is quite low, and that is why I made mention of my often running around in artefact gear rather than more novel/unusual attire.

Your argument is, loosely speaking, sound, so I don't know why you feel the need to erect straw men like these in order to support it.

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Originally Posted by purgatori

I assume you're referring to me, since I mentioned the Regalia? I actually never said that it broke immersion: I said that the aesthetic did not fit with the rest of the game. This is just my subjective opinion, of course, but one which I feel entitled to hold. And I certainly never said anything that could be construed as it being THE thing which is out of keeping with the rest of the game's aesthetic. There are plenty of things that fall into category, in my opinion; but I wanted to allude to the fact that my threshold for aesthetic deviation is quite low, and that is why I made mention of my often running around in artefact gear rather than more novel/unusual attire.

Your argument is, loosely speaking, sound, so I don't know why you feel the need to erect straw men like these in order to support it.

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My apologies for misrepresenting what you said. I was going off day(s) old memory and quickly writing the post. It would have been prudent of me to go back and rereading your post before ranting as I did. That is basically what it boiled down to now that I look at it again, and I'm ashamed that I even wrote it as it is.

But it is the gist of my opinions on those subjects at the very least. A frustrating night at work colored my words and led me to hastily scrap together the post just to post it. Apologies for that as well.

I'll be more on top of getting information correct in the future before hitting post. I'm usually better about it.

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Originally Posted by File2ish

The more permanent additions, like the aforementioned fanservice raids, with ties to past games or other franchises have been more or less changed and/or repurposed to fit into the game's lore so I'm not sure why it's breaking your immersion. We have Crystal Tower from 2.XX, which is from FF3, pulls a lot of lore from 3 and mixes it with Allagan. Eureka is from FF3 as well, and Hydaelyn's version has ties to XI as far as I can tell (i didn't do much Eureka in SB, but Absolute Virtue is in there :P).

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Yes raids like the crystal tower are fine because they are made to fit into the world and do tell their own stories. Ivalice was already on the edge for me because it was imo too much retelling and not much new stuff. Omega was even worse because it was just a tournament with pure fanservice bosses that they even did not explain at all.

Nier is from a whole different franchise (and company) with its own style. IMO right now it does not fit at all. Its like bringing pokemon in this. They could try and explain to us that they are from another dimension (like most of it is..) but it still make it jarring for me.

I have no problems to callbacks like Biggs and Wedge. Or even if the primals like Garuda are from other games because they at least look different and have their own unique story in this. (Just like with chocobos and moogles) But using bosses from other games without changing them at least a bit is just bad imo.

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Originally Posted by File2ish

My apologies for misrepresenting what you said. I was going off day(s) old memory and quickly writing the post. It would have been prudent of me to go back and rereading your post before ranting as I did. That is basically what it boiled down to now that I look at it again, and I'm ashamed that I even wrote it as it is.

But it is the gist of my opinions on those subjects at the very least. A frustrating night at work colored my words and led me to hastily scrap together the post just to post it. Apologies for that as well.

I'll be more on top of getting information correct in the future before hitting post. I'm usually better about it.

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All good. Happens to the best of us :)

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Originally Posted by Allooutrick

I'm with you there. It's always weird to see the car from Final Fantasy 15 as a mount. Like, why is that the only instance of a car in the game? The Monster Hunter themed dungeon was ok to me. If I didn't know better, I probably would've never guessed.

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Oh but a giant whale soaring through the air as a mount is perfectly fine?

My immersion is already broken when I see people dressed up as Chocobos, or wear bikinis into battle. Or a combination of both. No crossover event will ever be more immersion breaking than the fashion sense of some people. ='D

One of the first things I saw the first time I logged into the game was a Roe in a chocobo mask and a metallic speedo doing the Manderville on top of a lamppost. Immersion never had a chance.

I’ve been playing since 1.0 beta, am a super big lore nerd and have both of the books, and think that anyone complaining about aesthetics or crossovers needs to get over themselves.

Besides the fact that they completely changed the aesthetics from 1.0 to ARR, they’ve been doing wonky crossovers from the very beginning and this isn’t new. We had Cocoon machina-behemoths in Lightning’s crossover (long before they reused the models as “Allagan behemoths”), Dragon Quest golems, a giant taru taru, and Yokai Watch. This game is an MMO theme park and it was established back in year 1 of ARR with the Dragon Quest crossover that there will be non-FF crossovers.

We’re only 1 raid into NieR. There’s plenty of time for them to explain what’s going on later. And how are people angry about Noctis’ car or 2B when we also have Titan riding an ATV?

I don't mind the immersion breaking until it enters the MSQ. I had a big issue with Ivalice being mentioned in the MSQ, and being a part of the world, and while the crystal tower has grown on me dramatically in shadowbringers considering it became its own thing very separate from FFIII, the original incarnation where Xande is the allagan emperor who tried to call on cloud of darkness left a bad taste in my mouth.

I hope Nier stays only semi canon and is never mentioned in the MSQ

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Originally Posted by Nabril

Oh but a giant whale soaring through the air as a mount is perfectly fine?

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It is, actually.

It's not about plausibility, it's about whether this item feels like it belongs in a fantasy story. A flying whale seems more appropriate than a modern-looking car.

Even the more fantastic-looking Garlean devices (two-legged mecha, giant airships) seem more suited to the setting - although their buildings feel out of place to me, as does a lot of the later Allagan stuff like Azys Lla. (I know "ancient advanced civilisation" is a thing, but that doesn't mean I have to like their taste in architecture.)

FFXIV has never been a strictly 'fantasy' setting, though.

It seems to be more a matter of personal preferences getting in the way of enjoyment of what the setting actually is.

It's a Fantasy Kitchen Sink setting with loads of Schizo Tech. Just roll with it.

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Originally Posted by Nabril

Oh but a giant whale soaring through the air as a mount is perfectly fine?

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Whales are kinda already a thing to see flying in most japanese games as is, so this is fine lol.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Yes raids like the crystal tower are fine because they are made to fit into the world and do tell their own stories. Ivalice was already on the edge for me because it was imo too much retelling and not much new stuff. Omega was even worse because it was just a tournament with pure fanservice bosses that they even did not explain at all.

Nier is from a whole different franchise (and company) with its own style. IMO right now it does not fit at all. Its like bringing pokemon in this. They could try and explain to us that they are from another dimension (like most of it is..) but it still make it jarring for me.

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Incorrect, they did explain it. While I am with you on it being fan service bosses, Omega traveled across stars and dimensions and has been around for eons to listen to stories of powerful wizards and entities that should've ended the world and their tale's hero. He uses them specifically to gauge how strong the WoL is and how those heroes from those dimensions defeated their "big bad guy". He literally says he collected the information off it all and bases every fight off that information.

As for your problem with Neir, the most I can say is "get over it" because tbh... I've never played Neir and I feel like all of this feels just fine integrating into the game. Not only that but like the other comment, they haven't explained anything yet, so its kinda jumping the gun. We have mammets and magitek humanoids, mutants, so on.... It's not illogical to see mechanisms and humanoid looking robots in this game when we already see them plenty. I almost wanna say the only reason its distracting is if you know/played the games enough to relate it over the FFXIV setting. Personally I see the WoL looking at this thing like its the most alien thing he's seen yet, top it off we're already on another star that has lalafells being called dwarves.




Also, to anyone complaining about the Regula from FFXV still. I made you this.
https://i.imgur.com/5mWQkHm.png

Once they slap on monster faces or call it a mutant or something along the lines of fantasy, no one cries about it breaking their fantasy game. But a carriage with wheels in a world of magic and magitek engineering, FORBIDDEN. Ok. Ignore the mutant car/motorcycle because it's "a monster made from mutant science experimentation and fits in the lore" but stare in awe and cry at the "mechanical device that can transport people by using elementary functioinality such as wheels, friction, and a common motor just like most magitek devices do as is" AND HOW THIS TOTALLY DOESN'T BELONG AT ALL, YEAP. It's just that jarring clearly... Or perhaps you're just relating the other series over FFXIV far too much. I played FFV a bit, but as I did the event for the car, it was just me in the FFXIV world seeing a weird stranger bring weird things here that I had to kill and Cid happen to find a way to make the car he fixed up for the lad because he's literally a magitek engineer.