Expectations are ruining this game

Only time I lookit guides is when I'm doing EX Trials. Generally speaking, the dungeons aren't hard enough to warrant them. At all. :/ I usually pick up on each boss fight about a 3rd of the way through. I don't bother telling new people mechanics for about the same reason. If i can piece it together from what I see, I expect them too as well.

Sorry to hear about your experience. Although I do have a question where these are main popping up? Are you running normal dungeon content and normal trials? Because thats a little much for people to be upset about. However if you are running EX Trials or the savage version of raids, its probably best to have some idea of how mechanics works. Dont have to watch a video on how a fight works but being able to know the more tried and true look away, stack , etc are kinda mandatory.

Basically I 100% agree with you people need to chill out in dungeons and such. Unless its EX or Savage content then you should probably have some understanding of the mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Lascivus

So I started playing this game about 6 months ago with my fiance. Neither of us knew much of anything about it and that was a huge part of why I was so excited to play it.

But now, the expectation that you're supposed to look up and know everything about a dungeon before doing it is literally ruining it for me. I understand being frustrated when someone doesn't know the mechanics, trust me. But getting pissed off at someone for not knowing when it's their first time going through is so stupid.

Literally my fiance feels like they CAN'T tank a dungeon without memorizing the mechanics completely before going through because they know people who've done it before will get pissed off and yell at them for it.

I absolutely hate this bullshit. Let people learn as they go. You shouldn't have to research things before doing them.

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There's going to be a lot of people that disagree with me, but FFXIV community has always been hyper toxic. Even as far back as 1.x when Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda were just coming out.

To share a story: Yesterday I did a Dohn Mehg and some Lafafell WHM from Malboro was complaining that it was their second group for the instance that was going to slow because the dps was trash. Which lead the SAM to respond by telling the WHM that they were sorry that they couldn't meet the WHMs expectations. Guess what the WHMS response was. The WHM straight up said that the SAM probably couldn't meet anyones expectations. And that has always been the way it is in this game. Its only hidden because of how aggressive SE is with dealing with that type of behavior.

I feel these people are a small, but vocal minority. I’m sure everyone gets a little annoyed by screw ups now and then, but rarely have I seen anyone be actively hostile. When they are, you can always report them because that’s not the kind of behavior the dev team actually tolerates.

Literally never seen this happen in my 6 years playing this game. Methinks OP had one bad dungeon group and assumed it was meant that way for everything instead of the people they got grouped with just being idiots.

I won't run a dungeon unless I've studied it thoroughly. Watch videos, read text descriptions, and even run it with trust groups now.
I even review ones I haven't run in a while in the same way, which precludes roulettes, because I can't study them all before signing up.

This comes from my past WoW experience where, if you show the slightest sign that you're unfamiliar with it, or say you haven't run it before, you get kicked instantly.

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Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

There's going to be a lot of people that disagree with me, but FFXIV community has always been hyper toxic.

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Yeah, I am one of those people :P Hyper toxic? How many online videogames have you played? I'd say that Rust has a hyper toxic community (very entertaining in small amounts), whereas FFXIV is rather mild, with far more people who would help, rather than harm someone. I have seen far more toxicity in FPS, and in other MMO's, such as WoW and Runescape XD Heck, I have seen more toxicity in minecraft servers.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

This comes from my past WoW experience where, if you show the slightest sign that you're unfamiliar with it, or say you haven't run it before, you get kicked instantly.

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Who the hell are you doing content with where that's happening? In a dungeon? No way. Maybe like high mythic+ or a heroic raid if you join a party that requires a previous clear and then tell them you don't have one... that'll get you kicked, but you kinda asked for it going in.

WoW dungeons are even more faceroll than FFXIV's. There is zero chance people are kicking new players from those just for the "crime" of being new.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

I won't run a dungeon unless I've studied it thoroughly. Watch videos, read text descriptions, and even run it with trust groups now.
I even review ones I haven't run in a while in the same way, which precludes roulettes, because I can't study them all before signing up.

This comes from my past WoW experience where, if you show the slightest sign that you're unfamiliar with it, or say you haven't run it before, you get kicked instantly.

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Geez, WoW sounds like a real pleasure. I’ve never seen anyone get kicked, in XIV, unless they are actively ruining a run and not trying to improve after given advice.

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Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

There's going to be a lot of people that disagree with me, but FFXIV community has always been hyper toxic. Even as far back as 1.x when Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda were just coming out.

To share a story: Yesterday I did a Dohn Mehg and some Lafafell WHM from Malboro was complaining that it was their second group for the instance that was going to slow because the dps was trash. Which lead the SAM to respond by telling the WHM that they were sorry that they couldn't meet the WHMs expectations. Guess what the WHMS response was. The WHM straight up said that the SAM probably couldn't meet anyones expectations. And that has always been the way it is in this game. Its only hidden because of how aggressive SE is with dealing with that type of behavior.

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Obviously anecdotal, but the other night I was doing the normal raid roulette, end up in Eyes of the Creator (where you have to match up the power-ball to the lifeless adds). Anyway, at one point one of the adds got pulled away from the platform they needed to be on, and we were graced with the following:

WHAT THE F*** ARE YOU DOING
STOP GO BACK
YOU F****** IDIOT

Tis paraphrased - the whole thing was actually longer (about 6 lines or so). But it came completely out of the blue and was incredibly unnecessary.

With that said, I do think MOST people are patient and understanding, some may be helpful, but there are definitely plenty of people out there with incredibly short-fuses who probably shouldn't be playing with other people.

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Originally Posted by Lascivus

So I started playing this game about 6 months ago with my fiance. Neither of us knew much of anything about it and that was a huge part of why I was so excited to play it.

But now, the expectation that you're supposed to look up and know everything about a dungeon before doing it is literally ruining it for me. I understand being frustrated when someone doesn't know the mechanics, trust me. But getting pissed off at someone for not knowing when it's their first time going through is so stupid.

Literally my fiance feels like they CAN'T tank a dungeon without memorizing the mechanics completely before going through because they know people who've done it before will get pissed off and yell at them for it.

I absolutely hate this bullshit. Let people learn as they go. You shouldn't have to research things before doing them.

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Sounds like a self imposed problem to me. I LOVE tanking dungeons totally blind the first time I run them. That's how I do dungeons for the first time, every time. Dungeons are easy, and you don't need guides for them. Guides are for trials and raids.

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Originally Posted by Lascivus

So I started playing this game about 6 months ago with my fiance. Neither of us knew much of anything about it and that was a huge part of why I was so excited to play it.

But now, the expectation that you're supposed to look up and know everything about a dungeon before doing it is literally ruining it for me. I understand being frustrated when someone doesn't know the mechanics, trust me. But getting pissed off at someone for not knowing when it's their first time going through is so stupid.

Literally my fiance feels like they CAN'T tank a dungeon without memorizing the mechanics completely before going through because they know people who've done it before will get pissed off and yell at them for it.

I absolutely hate this bullshit. Let people learn as they go. You shouldn't have to research things before doing them.

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I've been playing this game since v1.0 and have never ever seen or heard of this for dungeons. Now extreme primal fights or savage yeah but not normal dungeons.

Guides are a crutch. If a player is causing multiple wipes in a dungeon, that usually means he can't learn the mechanics on the fly, as there is usually enough leeway for 2-3 mistakes per fight. If thats the case they probably should watch a guide beforehand.

The general expectation from most people is, that they dont have to wipe multiple times on a relatively easy dungeon boss. I don't think I saw more than a handful complaining in a dungeon up until this condition is met over my 6-ish years.

If you are getting this feedback on the regular theres either a large cultural difference between our shards, or its not the complete story.

Either way your post tittle is rather sensationalist, hyperbolic, and in my opinion outright false.

I'm with the majority that say they have only experienced this in trials and raids, usually extreme ones too. Sorry you've had a few bad experiences, I get where your fiance is coming from too, my husband tried to play with me as a tank but he quit because he couldn't take the negativity he got for making mistakes early on.

I've played since 2.0 launch and I've never had anyone chew me out for not knowing tacts of a dungeon, even if I am late to run it. (I'm very casual.) I just say at the start "Hi all, this is my first time here, sorry if I make any mistakes." People are usually fine with that, sometimes they offer to explain tactics to which I usually reply I am happy to fly blind unless they really want me to know them. Like you, I prefer to learn by playing, more fun.

Make yourselves a macro saying something like "Hello, >name< and myself are new, we don't know the tactics yet so please bare with us." Or something like that, I had a tank once in an early dungeon with a similar macro set up to explain she was new to tanking so please be kind and if they have any advice she would be happy to hear it, I thought it was awesome. (She did a fine job tanking too!)

Go in blind. Doesn't matter if it's old content or what your role is. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise because it's your right to enjoy content that is new to you without having it spoiled. However, when it comes to content that requires practice (extreme, savage, ultimate) you should make or join a practice party for the first time experience.

I have only one issue with going in blind and that's people demanding you to explain the whole fight for them or blaming you if they fail a mechanic they didn't know. It's your responsibility to prepare to the extent that you feel is necessary before queuing. Don't expect others to copy paste a full guide in the chat box when you could have just read it beforehand. Being unprepared means there is a possibility that you will make mistakes and that should be part of the fun.

Not sure where your frustration stems from. I am playing through HW right now, should be at the end of the epilog - So I have multiple trials, dungeons etc. that unlock and I have to tank them first time.

In general, there are a few things to look out for:

Dodge EVERY Area of Effect.

If you get a Debuff on your head that has a radius around you, move out of your team mates radius / even to the edge of the battle arena

Use your Cooldowns. All your activate skills for damage reduction should be used. You don't need to save them for rainy days, click em, you make it easier for the healer to compensate mistakes you will make when doing it first try.

Write a line when the dungeon starts "Hey, first time in this dungeon. If there is anything out of the ordinary with a boss, please let me now"

Sticking to this rules (Which in my opinion are just basic MMORPG behavior guidelines) I never got hated on or insulted for maybe wiping once. I mean, if you wipe, you probably realize what you messed up anyway and if you repeat the same mistake 3-4 times... maybe play minecraft.

I have literally never had this happen before. The only instances of looking at guide's I've ever seen this sort of thing were EX primals/raid groups. Never be afraid to ask what to expect and if they say to "look up a guide"... then they are just jerks. I'm on OP's server and we're chill about just about everything possible. If you like OP you/your SO can throw me a friend request if you ever see me online and I can try my best to help out.

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Originally Posted by Lascivus

Like I said, I understand the frustration. But I'm the kind of person who doesn't want to know ANYTHING before doing something. Even with raids. I don't want to know. If you can't handle new people not knowing, then you need to reevaluate yourself. Or like. Explain how it works before jumping in. The game literally tells you that there are new people when you start.

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U can do ex and stuff without looking it up.

U just need to join a blind run, they generally cater. But yes if u join a basic practice group then they will expect you looked it up as they aren’t looking to blind run the content.

With groups, it sounds like you’ve been unlucky.

Just play, it's a duty finder dungeon.
The only expectation you should have in there is that you will run into random asshats.
Anyone "expecting" savage performance in a random dungeon should make his own party finder, not the other way around

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Just play, it's a duty finder dungeon.
The only expectation you should have in there is that you will run into random asshats.
Anyone "expecting" savage performance in a random dungeon should make his own party finder, not the other way around

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What about expecting "savage perfomance" in "savage content" (I'm including EX-primals here)? It seems OP wants to run everything blind using the DF.

I cant recall ever seeing anyone be upset with someone wanting to run a dungeon blind (given they had a basic understanding of their job - no NOT savage level, just tanks knowing their aggro-button, healers knowing their heal-button and dps knowing their singletarget from their AoE-button - and a grasp of repeated mechanics) - but Ex-primals and Savage-raids are a different story.

You can run every dungeon blind, as long as you read the chat.
There are not many, but a few bosses, where you have to know the mechanics.
Example: Snowcloak, 2. Boss. Its immense frustrating, if the Tank doesn´t know what to do there and the fight takes forever.

Its also always good to tell your party at the start, that you are new, so they can explain important mechanics.

Edit: This works for dungeons and normal primals/raids; NOT for Extreme primals, savage raids.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

What about expecting "savage perfomance" in "savage content" (I'm including EX-primals here)? It seems OP wants to run everything blind using the DF.

I cant recall ever seeing anyone be upset with someone wanting to run a dungeon blind (given they had a basic understanding of their job - no NOT savage level, just tanks knowing their aggro-button, healers knowing their heal-button and dps knowing their singletarget from their AoE-button - and a grasp of repeated mechanics) - but Ex-primals and Savage-raids are a different story.

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You can run savage content blind.
But that implies you can learn mechanics on the fly.
As pointed out before, if you want to run savage content blindly, then either learn the mechanics on the fly, or accept that it was a bad idea and then look up a guide / make your own party.
Savage content requires a bit more work than a random dungeon, so I can live with certain expectations/requirements being needed there.


Not for random dungeons however.

It's worth remembering that the Duty Finder is not designed for one group in particular. It's not built to cater to people who want to run story content blind. It's not built to cater to Tomestone grinders. It's not built to cater to people leveling alts, or those grinding another job to cap. Entering with expectations is simply a recipe for frustration, regardless of what those expectations are or how reasonable someone might think they are.

About the only expectation you can safely have is that people aren't free to verbally abuse you with impunity. That doesn't mean you won't encounter it, but it does mean you can report them for it. Other than that, if you're dead set on a particular style of play and won't enjoy yourself if your approach isn't respected by the group, you should use the PF to create a group that works for you. Or don't queue up that day; there's nothing wrong with waiting until you're more in the mood for a group of random strangers.

You do not need to take this expectation seriously.
Go in blind, and enjoy your time playing. If you're going in as a pair that's even better, because you will not be a single player singled out if you do encounter anyone with this unreasonable expectation.
Going in blind is the default for standard dungeons. Most people won't even question if you know what you're doing unless you mess up, and even then you'll usually get "Are you new? Let me explain the mechanics for you."

Literally the only stuff you should be expected to have looked up a fight before hand, is the very latest endgame EX/Savage content, and even then, if you're in a full pre-made you could have like-mined people who want to all go in blind anyway.

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Originally Posted by Lascivus

So I started playing this game about 6 months ago with my fiance. Neither of us knew much of anything about it and that was a huge part of why I was so excited to play it.

But now, the expectation that you're supposed to look up and know everything about a dungeon before doing it is literally ruining it for me. I understand being frustrated when someone doesn't know the mechanics, trust me. But getting pissed off at someone for not knowing when it's their first time going through is so stupid.

Literally my fiance feels like they CAN'T tank a dungeon without memorizing the mechanics completely before going through because they know people who've done it before will get pissed off and yell at them for it.

I absolutely hate this bullshit. Let people learn as they go. You shouldn't have to research things before doing them.

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To be blunt, I always lie about my experience to prevent that from happening. On Savage/EX, I'll look it up, but I will blatantly lie about not being new to a fight just to get the extra experience. Maybe that's how you and your fiance should go about it? I've not once had to deal with that in dungeons though, you probably just had some really terrible people and are venting. As above, nobody important or relevant cares about people knowing a dungeon beforehand. But your fiance absolutely cannot sum up the entire population because of some people who have their heads where the sun doesn't shine.

How can the game survive if you can't expect anything from it ?

Being matched with randoms means a random experiences, if you want to do blind run just make PF group with "blind run, learning on the fly"

Yes, the PUG experience in this game is good and constructive... but you have to remember this is still on the internet, do not let few bad apples make you think the whole tree is rotten. Today People use online video game not just as entertainment but a place to vent their anger

Those people who want perfect execution above and beyond not dying to mechanic in a dungeon are mostly " good player" that are trapped in pug environment

Usually people silently accept their fate and/or give tips to new players, BUT you gotta say it. I've never seen someone's head get ripped off because they said "I'm new. First time spanking/tanking/squeezin this."
It's not even that hard to do and yes, while the game gives a hint about it, considering the alts in this game.. nah.
Of course, there will be some mimimi-heads on the way, but the FFXIV is pretty great in such situations and there is - at least it seems like it for me - a lot in between meeting those peeps. On the other hand, the lot of new players I've seen not taking any tips from "veterans" is somewhat quite more common for the eye..
So all in all, give people a heads up and it will be fine.

Ime on moogle, all I've had to do as a tank was say "hey, first time here. Taking it easy.". Usually the healer Will tell me if I should be puling more and the dps Will tell me if I should pull faster.

If the problem is that your SO is a slow tank and that's causing reactions then that's a different problem that should be adressed directly. Majority rules in these situations and a tank must adjust speed and volume to the party.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Obviously anecdotal, but the other night I was doing the normal raid roulette, end up in Eyes of the Creator (where you have to match up the power-ball to the lifeless adds). Anyway, at one point one of the adds got pulled away from the platform they needed to be on, and we were graced with the following:

WHAT THE F*** ARE YOU DOING
STOP GO BACK
YOU F****** IDIOT

Tis paraphrased - the whole thing was actually longer (about 6 lines or so). But it came completely out of the blue and was incredibly unnecessary.

With that said, I do think MOST people are patient and understanding, some may be helpful, but there are definitely plenty of people out there with incredibly short-fuses who probably shouldn't be playing with other people.

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Lol really like who actually remembers all the Alexander raids! I did savage and trust me we got that normal one, and I was like crap what do we do here haha

Note: I know some people are going to be like I remember them all, and that's great for you. Lol

Not to be that guy, but you don't have to worry about looking anything up (in dungeons atleast) if you just pay attention to mechanics. Most of the mechanics are reused from previous dungeons and solo duties, plus just use video game common sense. My friends and I go into dungeons blind and we haven't had a problem at all.

I've played for six years, and GNB is my first tank role. I am rusty. I am nervous. But I am very upfront with people and let them know. We all love to learn new roles. I find if you are OPEN with people, they are more than willing and understanding.

As a new tank, I've been pretty much leveling on HoH and doing MSQ Roulette, since there is a second tank, and I can get a feel for things.

I did two dungeons for the first time tanking last night, and for the most part people were really chill.

I totally understand not wanting to spoil dungeons or story before doing them. I just wouldn't take a new job into them. My main is MCH and now DNC as an alt main, so I tend to do new content with the roles I am comfortable with and have down. Once I've got GNB to a skill set I am confident in I will branch out.

Bottom line, be open with your communication. You will always get people who are just looking to rush through and have an experienced tank, but those aren't the norm.

I can relate to the fiance. I want to try my hand at tanking, but I know I'll get shat on for fucking up in trials or alliance. Dungeons, so far, haven't been so bad but in alliance or trials? People can get really nasty if a tank messes up. I know most dungeons and raids like they're the back of my hand at this point, and I'm typically OK with running any dungeon as tank provided I have my favourite healer, otherwise I only do ones I'm very comfortable with, like Wanderer's Palace. But Alliance? Even though I know those ones so well, I'm not confident about tanking with multiple tanks, knowing tank mechs, etc. So, I really can't bring myself to do those.

I do like blind runs, though. I absolutely hate it when people try to spoil the mechs for me by going "OK U DO THIS AND THAT" without asking if I want instructions first. So, I make sure to do dungeons and raids and trials when they're brand new as a non-tank class. Then, later on, I may do redo the dungeons as a tank. I think most of the parties I've been with are fine with blind runs, but you get the occasional bad apple who doesn't. :/

I think the issue with expectations are more community based than game based. (I do let people know that I'm new to tanking or never tanked X before, etc. and they're usually chill about it after I let them know that.)

It is expected to get people like that who get upset if you don't do the dungeon in the exact method that they are use to.

Half of it is like what people said, letting the party know you're new. Half the time, people will be fine with it. The other half will get annoyed, and really it's about communication and how people want to react to one another. I take long breaks and took a long one with 4.0, came back and wanted to jump back into tanking. I went into a dungeon and would say "It's been a while so I don't remember everything 100%"

I would get mixed messages from "Np I don't remember this much either." to "It's fine, just pull to the wall and we'll be okay." or if I don't pull all the way because no one said anything and I guessed wrong, I get yelled it for being a horrible person that's wasting their valuable time. It's the way they react to it and it will force the person to respond back, either in a nicer way where they feel comfortable and hopefully perform better or if you get the nasty one you kinda go "If there wasn't internet between us I'd $#@$ you with my tea cup."

I've seen people mid-way, they go in blind and when they get to a boss they ask if there's anything important that would make them wipe that they should know. Some are fine with it and say what to look for, others flip their lids and break into a riot.

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Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR

But Alliance? Even though I know those ones so well, I'm not confident about tanking with multiple tanks, knowing tank mechs, etc. So, I really can't bring myself to do those.

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I would definitely encourage you to keep trying. You get to a point where they yell at you and you need to be honest with yourself. If you're trying, showing improvement to at least some degree, then you should feel good about yourself. You're not going to get there as fast as the player who takes two days off, youtubes their videos and runs the game non-stop. It may take you a week, while it takes me two weeks. You'll run into people who are fine with you learning so long as you're trying to people who demand perfection and this is their sad way of life.

Even simple mechanics can be hard to come by with some people, there's usually some sort of missing link to make it all click. Once you find that, you're good to go. If someone isn't being offensive towards you and trying to help, take the help. We all need help sometime in every aspect of life. Then again, there's nothing wrong with someone being a complete douche and saying "How about you leave or say something productive you little thunder-^#$%" In the end they're just people over the internet, some who act out more than they do in real life because they can.

Read some good responses here but I wanted to give my experiences. I've seen these sort of players since day 1. They're far more common than I care for but they aren't the majority. Majority changes by data center/server, time of day, era of the expansion, etc. Basically it's always changing. Since the release of the roulette function with incentives to assist those in need of content clears it has been abused.

Personally I run everything blind. That's how I enjoy the game. I was a dot mage in 1.x, dps in 2.0-2.1, tank from 2.2-4.1 and dps from 4.2-current. I've encountered people who respect my choice of experience first and experience fresh, those that hate and rage and those completely indifferent. I'll heed advice for something I'm new to so long as it isn't "go read/watch a guide". My goal isn't to make you suffer, thus if a tried and true mechanic suddenly swapped here I'll be happy to oblige you if you drop that "tethers are reverse here. Stack to break them" cool. If not, I'll figure it out on my own.

Mind you this is solely for the Duty Finder. Anything requiring preform parties I'm not going to join a loot-completion/farming group in PF if I haven't experienced the fight to completion yet. But that doesn't require I read/watch a guide.

Guides are written by players. Developers don't drop a guide for the FFXIV content when it launches. The players have to dive in, adapt and learn it before sharing their findings for others. The expectation of waiting for someone else to do the work for me never sat well with me. The song and dance I'd rather learn with my own to feet and I feel I'm better for it.

You'll meet all kinds of people in the game. There's as many kind hearted souls as there are jerks who just want to make everyone suffer. When you don't perform it's a toss up of who you'll get but it is within your ability to completely avoid if you so choose.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

But unless something is said, people could just assume that the "new player" is an alt. Plenty of people play alts. If you want a fully blind run, however, and wish to avoid potential spoilers or drama I would suggest starting your own group through the party finder tool.

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assuming its an alt is a bit of a guess, the simplest answer when it tells you people are new, is that some one is new. Also, when dungeons are recent, the likelyhood that everyone knows the mechanics is lower. The regular duty finder and roulettes are designed to place people new to dungeons with people who have done it before. No one should expect that everyone is experienced in a random duty finder dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

on one side you are fully in the right to play your way, on the other if you're joining completely blind some people who have run the content countless times and explained it countless times are going to be a little frustrated when someone joins a dungeon and needs someone to walk them through all of it. Science parties are fun for some, but others they are quite the ordeal. Maybe use party finder so you can specify that you want a blind run?

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the standard for duty finder is never going to be to only use dutyfinder when you are experienced, the game literally tells players progressing the game to queue for duty finder, or requires them to click the duty finder interaction points during thier quests. It also goes out of its way to tell people there are new players, and reward the group. People need to accept duty finder is the standard for getting new players through content, and roulettes are designed to make old players have reasons to do dungeons they have done before with people who are less experienced.

the ones who should be expected to party finder to avoid new players is the more experienced players

I've only experienced the first few MSQ dungeons + Ifrit as DPS, but to my own - I guess postive - surprise these runs were silent ones without me messing things up due to my innate nervousness (regardless of difficulty). However, I did watch brief dungeon versions on youtube by MTQcapture who does/did imho an amazing job in her videos. In contrast, although I enjoy leveling my Paladin next to my "main job", just the thought of tanking in dungeons gives me the chill for whatever reasons.
While so far everything seems quite managable, I fear I'll eventually reach a point when I have to draw the line and mechanics + gimmicks gets multilayered, given the amount of story dungeons I'm expected to complete. Fortunately, it seems that raids and coils are not required for the MSQ, yet seem to be partially useful for grasping the whole picture (e.g. Bahamut from what I've heard). But I disgress... when push comes to shove, I will definitely consider playing the "first timer" card before the experienced players before the actual run begins.

It's funny because even now with Shadowbringers I still had to keep telling people "Please don't spoil!" because I personally want to experience the content myself and figure it out.

Especially when Tanking my actions are generally going to dignify if we wipe or not. So me personally experiencing and learning the fight feels much more rewarding for me. Thankfully with many of the fights in current content they are all very predictable in terms of when your tankbuster is coming, when a raidwide is coming, and then that bosses specific mechanics. I wouldn't have been able to piece that together as well if someone just flat out told me what was going to go on, sometimes you need to deal with that head on to get the best knowledge about it.

This is applying this logic for mainly dungeons, MOST trials, and MOST raid bosses and is generally based on how many new people I see in a group. A perfect example of this imo is Tsukuyomi normal. If about 6 people know this fight you can generally hop to it without any tips (most people can pick it up as the fight goes on), however when your number is about 4-5 that's when i would suggest giving very brief tips on the fight. You still want people to experience the fight for what it is since it's really cool, but explaining every single bit about it takes the magic completely out of it. Especially when people mess up and someone has to be passive aggressive on explaining the fight to still have people die. I feel brief tips are great since it avoids having people die to mechanics that aren't too clear. The swapping sides during lunacy is a big one as that leads into both bleed and doom, easily killing someone if a healer is brand new. Nothing feels more degrading then dying to a mechanic like that as opposed to something like the fans where it's more clear as to WHY you died. That's why explanations without going into too much in depth are a big thing. Just saying "swap sides when your count hits four" is perfect, doesn't tell you what this side mechanic is, but also gives you an idea that something bad will happen if you don't follow it.

When you start hitting EX and Savage the expectation then is that you know how the fight works unless joining a blind party finder group. You can absolutely pick up mechs during those groups but as the difficulty is much higher it's best to go armed with some knowledge unless you're joining a blind one.

OP I understand your frustration and it just sounds like you've been having bad groups of people. I would recommend to avoid being spoiled on fights to simply just say "First time here, please don't spoil". I did that for every dungeon/trial I ran in Shadowbringers and only asked for help on one of them, which was Titania simply due to an aggro question.

My advice is to just expect it and shed it like water. I have no fear of what a rando online thinks of how I play. I'll tell people straight up if I'm new at a duty or class and just let the hate flow if they don't like it. I will agree it's ridiculous in this game though.

My girlfriend has dungeon anxiety because of people like that and I always tell her what I just said here. Part that shit like the Red Sea and just walk on through it like you own the place. Too much actual stuff to worry about in the world besides rude people online. :)

I really appreciate all the responses to this! First of all, I just need to say that this was me venting out of frustration and I'm a lot calmer and levelheaded now tbh.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to explain things from both sides. There are definitely a lot of things that we can do to make things easier on ourselves. However, my fiance has decided to run through everything as a healer first so they can get a feel for how things go because they are a lot more comfortable with healing than tanking. We will definitely try to be a lot better about letting people know when we're new to a dungeon or whatever so that they understand if we wipe, that's why.

Of course, that is to say that we have played through most of the dungeons up to level 50 and do have a pretty good grasp on mechanics, unless something new gets thrown at us. But even then, we're both pretty quick to pick something up, and if one of us misses it we'll explain. And if we both miss it multiple times, we're not too proud to ask for help.

Just recently we did Thornmarch for the first time with other people (we did it undersized first just for fun, so we kind of knew what to expect), and we wiped probably 3 times before people were like "okay this is what's going on", but nobody really got upset about it thankfully.

And as I've said in other posts, I completely understand the frustration of dealing with new players who have no idea what's going on. We recently had a tank in Sastasha who literally didn't know how to do their job. But our healer was patient and explained what he needed to be doing. It was super frustrating, but we understood that he was new, so we took our time and let him learn. It may have taken 30 minutes, but it still got done and we helped someone learn something in the process.

But again, we're going to try to be better about announcing our newness to content so people know what to expect.