Black Mage's quirky cross class abilities

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Originally Posted by electrikALIEN

I'd gladly trade second wind and feather foot for cure, stoneskin and protect....

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I'd gladly trade Cure, Stoneskin and Protect for White Mages knowing how to play their job...

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Originally Posted by electrikALIEN

According to today's announcement, equipping the Black Mage soul stone will limit cross class ability choices to Pugilist and Archer.

While I'm pleased Black Mage will be able to retain some of the abilities we find most useful from Pugilist and Archer, I'm also somewhat baffled by the combination. Class differences aside (mage versus melee), limited to choosing Archer and Pugilist abilities for your Black Mage only provides 4 abilities out of the 5 available ability spots:

Feather Foot (PUG 2)
Second Wind (PUG 6)
Decoy (ARC 2)
Chameleon (ARC 42)

Quelling Strike (ARC 22) and Hawk's Eye (ARC 6) are also available to us, but to what benefit? I would just like your thoughts on whether these 4 abilities will be enough.

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As others already mentioned Quelling Strike is highly useful and will help you out with utilizing Second Wind. Chameleon is also extremely useful, and I would say Decoy is not bad either.

Don't forget you have an ability to heal yourself with your own nukes, so that ontop of Second Wind and not standing in fire / pulling hate will keep you from sustaining damage. Sanguine Rite is also your own little personal Sentinel, so you're more lucky than some of the other classes as far as some people are concerned I think.

You could say Feather Foot is kind of meh, but it does give you mp back when you evade, and it's a tool for surviving if you pull hate for a moment.

In the end, if you hadn't gotten Archer you'd be pretty upset at your lack of Chameleon I would think, and no pug would = no second wind, tp source aside.

I love the idea that you can convert on BLM then pop a nice necrogenesis>nuke>2nd wind to top off. Dealing with the hate afterwards will be fun. Push the current tanks to do a better job then the voke/flash/afk 30 seconds we get now.

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Originally Posted by tachi

I love the idea that you can convert on BLM then pop a nice necrogenesis>nuke>2nd wind to top off. Dealing with the hate afterwards will be fun. Push the current tanks to do a better job then the voke/flash/afk 30 seconds we get now.

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Wonder how much hp burst would give off necro.

Someone mentioned possibility of switching between class and job on a regular basis. I think it's highly likely that going from class->job and vice versa will reset all the timers on your abilities so it probably isn't going to be something you'll want to keep doing all the time.

Obviously I'm just imagining what might happen, changing from class to job might not reset your timers.

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Originally Posted by Xianghua

Archer damage is not higher then PGls atm. 1 Vs 1 Pgl will blow archer away. The only Reason Archer is favored for moogle is because its much easy to hit combo's. Same reason people favored lancer for Ifrit and now thm. not because its the strongest DD. But because it's the easiest.

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^^^ This Sorry KumaAkuma but you are wrong in this argument, though I do agree bard will still be able to play somewhat of a DPS role they are going to loose quite a bit of it due to loosing invigorate, keen Flurry, and blood for blood. If Bard wants to keep up in damage they will need to unequip the job stone.

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Originally Posted by Umo

I'd gladly trade Cure, Stoneskin and Protect for White Mages knowing how to play their job...

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man you must play with some really bad players, currently CNJ is by far the easiest class to play. I play it so I can get **** faced drunk and not effect the party.

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Originally Posted by electrikALIEN

Quelling Strike (ARC 22) and Hawk's Eye (ARC 6) are also available to us, but to what benefit? I would just like your thoughts on whether these 4 abilities will be enough.

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Hawk's Eye is not of much use, but Quelling Strike works with spells, getting you reduced enmity and earning TPs to use with Second Wind.

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Originally Posted by electrikALIEN

I learned something today!

But still... I'd gladly trade second wind and feather foot for cure, stoneskin and protect....

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if you wanna be a nuker and a buffer you could just stay thm.

Well, a lot of discussion on bard job, one thing that everyone is forgeting is that we dont know how much the song buffs last, if they give 10min like in the begining of the game we had a few buffs that lasted that, we wouldnt have any trouble focusing on DD, but if those spells last what the speed buff last then we have a problem, im still reluctant for having thm and conj only subjobs, if only they left lancer and conjurer as subs then we could have a good damage dealer and support/buffer job.

Right now only a few classes exceed archers damage and not always, i think with this kind of setup we have with bard we wont have the best DD, but ill wait and see, in any case i like a lot the archer class and wouldnt mind being a support job, this is the first wave of jobs so i know we'll get a bad ass ranged DD in the near future.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

i am wondering what people are going to do within the primal fights without sentinel? being limited to equip skills from just two specific classes...

Will people keep playing the mainclasses within these fights? and not the jobs?

i see that problem.

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Try Stoneskin ^^

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Originally Posted by elreed

Well, a lot of discussion on bard job, one thing that everyone is forgeting is that we dont know how much the song buffs last, if they give 10min like in the begining of the game we had a few buffs that lasted that, we wouldnt have any trouble focusing on DD, but if those spells last what the speed buff last then we have a problem, im still reluctant for having thm and conj only subjobs, if only they left lancer and conjurer as subs then we could have a good damage dealer and support/buffer job.

Right now only a few classes exceed archers damage and not always, i think with this kind of setup we have with bard we wont have the best DD, but ill wait and see, in any case i like a lot the archer class and wouldnt mind being a support job, this is the first wave of jobs so i know we'll get a bad ass ranged DD in the near future.

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Most likely going to have the same cast/recast/timer as Swiftsong. Thm/cnj subs are the best to subs to make bard the best support role it can be. It's main focus will be on support. When that role is complete it will DD some (like cor in xi).

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Originally Posted by Xianghua

Most likely going to have the same cast/recast/timer as Swiftsong. Thm/cnj subs are the best to subs to make bard the best support role it can be. It's main focus will be on support. When that role is complete it will DD some (like cor in xi).

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I know that the role of bard is support, but i dont see what the thm adds to the mix, sanguine rite gives only defense boost for thm so theres only left the mp it gives but bard already have mp song, i think they wanted bard to be less effective, if they gave lancer as sub with conj in the mix would have been an OP job, but as i say im gonna try it first... i feel that theyre leaving Bard as they left archer in 1.19

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Originally Posted by elreed

I know that the role of bard is support, but i dont see what the thm adds to the mix, sanguine rite gives only defense boost for thm so theres only left the mp it gives but bard already have mp song, i think they wanted bard to be less effective, if they gave lancer as sub with conj in the mix would have been an OP job, but as i say im gonna try it first... i feel that theyre leaving Bard as they left archer in 1.19

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maybe with the next lvl cap increase thm could get some nice skills. Its a shame well have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

^^^ This Sorry KumaAkuma but you are wrong in this argument, though I do agree bard will still be able to play somewhat of a DPS role they are going to loose quite a bit of it due to loosing invigorate, keen Flurry, and blood for blood. If Bard wants to keep up in damage they will need to unequip the job stone.

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:/

On moogles our pug never beat arcs, and he's not a noob pug, just seems to go down hill when mp is gone.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

:/

On moogles our pug never beat arcs, and he's not a noob pug, just seems to go down hill when mp is gone.

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Not sure what this means but just saying if you are wanting to go full DPS you will have to unequip the stone, I think BRD will still do some pretty good DPS but not near as good as ARC, then again we haven't seen how well the new WS performs.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

:/

On moogles our pug never beat arcs, and he's not a noob pug, just seems to go down hill when mp is gone.

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/sigh 1 pgl in a arc heavy moogle spends more time chasing the moogles and missing combo's. while Arcs can run around freely and unleash combos without little worry of them failing.

If you went into a pgl heavy moogle the damage will be pretty much the same as arc (pgl might be ahead due to fist of fire vs king/mrd/gld)

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Originally Posted by Mrfox0707

I also thought the choice was a little weird. WHM is also strange with getting GLD and PUG skills. That really makes me wonder.

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GLA makes perfect sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Not sure what this means but just saying if you are wanting to go full DPS you will have to unequip the stone, I think BRD will still do some pretty good DPS but not near as good as ARC, then again we haven't seen how well the new WS performs.

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Remember that even the moogles prefer archer as main than brd...

The pug shouldn't be chasing the moogle though. There is a reason PUG has a enmity-less taunt. Taunt - Temporarily focuses the target's attacks on you. Make the moogle run to you. Really, it works great. Put featherfoot up, taunt moogle, moogle runs to you, moogle misses, stun moogle using haymaker. Proceed to pounce combo to further stun the moogle. By the time the mooge is unstunned; archer, thm, or cnj should of heavied that moogle and his mooglely death should be in short order.

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Originally Posted by Klive

The pug shouldn't be chasing the moogle though. There is a reason PUG has a enmity-less taunt. Taunt - Temporarily focuses the target's attacks on you. Make the moogle run to you. Really, it works great. Put featherfoot up, taunt moogle, moogle runs to you, moogle misses, stun moogle using haymaker. Proceed to pounce combo to further stun the moogle. By the time the mooge is unstunned; archer, thm, or cnj should of heavied that moogle and his mooglely death should be in short order.

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Correct. However both featherfoot and taunt have 60sec timer. So can only be used with 1 Combo. In a Speed run a moogle only last 30-40 secs so you would only be able to use taunt/feather foot every other moogle. When Timers are down. You will be chasing them.

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Originally Posted by Xianghua

Correct. However both featherfoot and taunt have 60sec timer. So can only be used with 1 Combo. In a Speed run a moogle only last 30-40 secs so you would only be able to use taunt/feather foot every other moogle. When Timers are down. You will be chasing them.

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Not if you bring two pug and alternate, but normally yes.

Also taunt is one 45 sec CD with traits.

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Originally Posted by Klive

Not if you bring two pug and alternate, but normally yes

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Correct again. My Main jobs are pgl and Arc. So I do know what both can do. The person I was replying to said "Our Pgl" not "our Pgls" So if that is the case It's 1 pgl with 5 archers the pgl will spend a lot of time running. The more the mobs stay still the better pgl becomes. He Stated that the pgl in his group was no where close to the archer's and I was just giving him the reason why.

Edit: even with Taunt only being 45secs. Taunt without featherfoot/heymaker to follow is kinda mute

are you the only person who understands this game?

There must be a rhyme and reason behind their decision for some of these truely odd combos. Or maybe one of the devs just liked to play blm/mnk in xi, who knows

I just wish there were more job-specific abilites available. 5 just make little sense to me for jobs like blm whm and brd (same with the limitated thm and con abilities). Of course I know ppl would QQ if mages got more but really since mages basically do nothing with auto-attack and are squishy squishy they need a couple extra abilities.

Will be on the look out for the rhyme and reason after patch, lets hope they make sense

As this guy: Hikai Tadacho

pointed out on his thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Bigger-Picture

"THM -> BLM
- Converts HP/MP
- Lightning damage
- AoE Sleep
- AoE Fire + DoT
- Ice damage, lowers enmity
Decoy (evade an attack)
Chameleon (enmity reduce)
Quelling Strike (enmity reduce)
Featherfoot (MP restore & evade)
Second Wind (instant HP restore)

All about the nukes, cross-class abilities help lower enmity from the huge
burst damage, and then evade attacks in case they do pull hate."

He makes a pretty good case.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

There must be a rhyme and reason behind their decision for some of these truely odd combos. Or maybe one of the devs just liked to play blm/mnk in xi, who knows

I just wish there were more job-specific abilites available. 5 just make little sense to me for jobs like blm whm and brd (same with the limitated thm and con abilities). Of course I know ppl would QQ if mages got more but really since mages basically do nothing with auto-attack and are squishy squishy they need a couple extra abilities.

Will be on the look out for the rhyme and reason after patch, lets hope they make sense

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For all we know it might be 5 abilities and 5 traits...god I want those patch notes so bad.

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Originally Posted by fusional

also, while yes- archer is the primary choice for moogle because it lacks directional combos (and has the luxury of not having combos interrupted by aoe), calling it 'easier' is a bit misleading. right now archer has the highest skill ceiling of any dps class due primarily to the need to micromanage your own 'auto attack' in between keeping combos on cooldown, while every other class can focus on movement and combos alone- in spite of how annoying movement is in that fight.

an archer doing everything right should be almost perpetually animation locked, and i can assure you that makes the class much, much, much more difficult than you're accounting for.

so while archer may be the easiest to pick up for moogle, it's also certainly the hardest to master.

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This. Exactly what I wanted to say.

The best archers can out damage an average archer with the majority of the damage coming from light shot.
The extra Quick Nock every 1.5mins comes NOWHERE close to the damage from more light shots from a skilled archer.

Ifrit is a different situation as you can rest and regen as there is only 1 ifrit and there are 7 moogles, giving thm an edge.


On topic: there is nothing wrong with the BLM's cross class abilities. Wouldn't have any other