Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

I wonder if the new internal GM policies will allow them to tackle the housing problem I have mentioned in my signature. I think I have seen posts before saying the GMs didn't do anything about it because denying Guest Access to a fc house isn't harassment even though it can severely disrupt a player's game play.

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Originally Posted by Rowde

No you don't... at least not on PS4.

There's no option to attach a screenshot, they ask for player names and general time of offense....

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You don't need a screenshot exactly, you just copy and paste the chat log and the GMs will also check the logs on their end to cross reference it to ensure its all correct (and not edited).

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

I think if ppl dont like what others say it shouldn't be reportable ppl need to learn blacklist thats what its 4

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That's been an argument against these kinds of rulesets for years, and the usual counterargument is "I shouldn't need to use the blacklist". I can agree up to a point, because ideally everyone would both be respectful enough to not be a dick and open-minded enough to tolerate other opinions, but realistically that's never going to happen.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

So I get the worry at SE going too far, and I'm not going to even try to predict if they will or not.

However, I find it interesting that everybody has immediately jumped to the conclusion that "free speech is dead I can no longer be myself or I'll be banned" and not thought more about situations like the ones we read about "my ex is stalking me and won't remove me from their friends list and constantly makes alts to send me rude/disturbing messages, but SE says they can't step in so all I can do is blacklist them".

I honestly believe this sort of thing at least was created more for the latter than the former. Is there room for the former? Probably. But for people who assume that's why these were put in place, I don't agree.

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Honestly I just want the rules to be better written as at present many of them have good intentions but are just too broad. Even if you look at them as purely for the benefit of GM discretion there were better ways to write most of them. One of the reasons I'm not panicking as well is that SE's GM's are notoriously lackluster in their responses to problems, even when multiple violations were reported and within the scope of the previously prohibited behaviors. This feels more like an attempt to cover themselves when they /DO/ act rather than a blanket puritanical purge. It just is written very, VERY badly.

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・Expressions that provoke or belittle another person, such as excessive criticism, negation/ridicule

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What falls under excessive criticism? Because I could criticise someone in a way that should help them see what they could be doing better ("you really should draw cards before pulling. Not doing so is like not using Aetherflow until the boss is pulled"), yet they could take it as a personal attack on themselves.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Never leave the GC barracks and only do content with trusts, got it.

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lol i guess this should be interpreted as advertising for trusts? But in all honestly there are soo many people afraid to talk to anyone in game now or afraid they will dc and get in trouble, this alone tells you flat out that something is not right with these rule changes. I expect a huge backlash over this to rise within the week. I expect streamers like mrhappy to bring this to light as well. No one should ever be afraid to talk because the rules are so vague and abstract sounding.

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Originally Posted by Slirith

Good, now follow through on this SE and break parsers/fflogs

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I'd rather they start actually banning all those dozens of bots that aren't involved in RMT first (Though even some that are involved slip by because they're getting their gil through legitimate sources like the market board).

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

I think if ppl dont like what others say it shouldn't be reportable ppl need to learn blacklist thats what its 4

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Your right they should absolutely blacklist and report while they are at it. Especially if the person has said something very derogatory.

Look - these rules are meant for people who really chew people out. Calling someone stupid is one thing but blasting them to the point it turns racial or sexist or political. Those kinds of wrongs yeah - it's totally warranted. I get that you were reported but maybe next time take into consideration how you word things.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Came to the forums expecting salt.

You guys did not disappoint.

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I brought the unsalted popcorn. We can use the salt here and mix it with it. 100% organic rage lol.

On topic now.

While extreme hypotethicals are being flown about, I'm just thinking about all the actual experiences that these new rules would probably be enforced in. Never took it personal when we pop into AV and a tank leaves immediately but god forbid one of the party members takes great offense and reports. And I only bring up AV cuz it appears to be one of those dgns with a high rate of abandonment.

Second thing that did caught my eye is the "unilateral" rejection of opinion? I really want to be this optimistic person and say "well I'm sure they mean rejecting opinion in a really foul/toxic/harassing kind of way" but looking at our real world atmosphere when it comes to differing opinions, I guess only time will tell if my optimism will prevail or if reality will beat it into the ground.

I will admit that some of the wording is a bit disconcerting, as are some folks in the community--for a recent example of what I mean, read Kall's recent one about some pugged content in the usual commiserating topic--but I don't think we necessarily have to worry half as much as this topic right here is making the situation out to be like. As much as I like to joke about SE as a company, I know they're not SO stupid as to allow for that level of abuse.

So basically don't be an asshole (hardly a change), don't abuse the disconnects (I'll reserve this can of worms for another discussion about the MSQ roulette dungeons), and don't actively keep people from playing the game they enjoy by trolling them or doing sod-all in the middle of a duty (goes back to not being an asshole).

If, or when, the poor wording of these terms comes to roost like a flock of over-sized, radioactive, mutant chickens just wanting to hug your face with their beaks, I can only hope that the terms are analyzed and polished without too much damage being done.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

You don't need a screenshot exactly, you just copy and paste the chat log and the GMs will also check the logs on their end to cross reference it to ensure its all corrected (and not edited).

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Nope, don't do any of that on PS4.

My report is just what I write about the situation.


Like I said, both times I've written these reports I was then contacted by a GM in game to provide them with further information. They asked me to tell them more things that were said by the player, which I always found strange since everyone is always talking about how they can just view the chat logs... can't they just scroll up? I don't ultimately know what actions, if any, were taken against the players I reported, but I was still surprised when the GM started using terminology that took my side during the first report, calling the problem player "Toxic" and such... based purely on my account of the incident.



And actually I guess I should clarify, these are the two times I've reported that GMs actually contacted me back.

When I started playing the game was during the time period when RMT bots would spam tell the entire server. Since I was new to the game I didn't know about all the functionality, like turning off whisper sound effects (which wasn't an ideal solution to begin with since it also made "legitimate" whispers silent), so my initial solution was to blacklist every RMT that sent me a tell... until my blacklist was full. Then I would habitually delete the top 20 entries in the blacklist every few days so I'd have room to blacklist the new RMTs at the bottom.

So I grew quite a disdain for RMT and bots during the beginning of my journey through Eorzea. I've sent many additional reports on bots I found exploiting teleportation glitches to fly around zones and to fight enemies while outside of zone... taking extra time to take screenshots so I could get their gibberish names written exactly write in the reports. None of my reports on RMT spam or Bots were ever replied to by a GM.

Thankfully they did take steps to finally put a stop to mass RMT tells, and my blacklist is currently empty now except for two players I decided to add who immediately disbanded "farm parties" after they got their drops. I figure hopefully that makes it so I don't see any other PF they ever put up so I don't end up in a party being led by them again (I legitimately don't know if the blacklist even works this way)... I use the auto-report function for RMT now when I do see them shout in zones, and I stopped reporting teleporting bots cuz GMs never replied to them.

Compelling play is a tough one. That's basically any shouts for an LB, asking tank on the first boss to put tank stance on as he obv forgot it...or did he? Maybe my request conpelled him to put it on. O.O
Prodding a fellow blm to use flare instead of just fire II.
Also if they're proactive on this I can basically see my servers mainstay mentors being banned since multiple infractions would occur in their daily

The end result will be that people won't talk to each other anymore because of fear of being banned considering how easlely players tend to get offended in this game

Criticizing a player that stays in AoE to gain 0.001 DPS > ban
Asking tank to put shield oath on > ban
Lala joke > ban

Hopefully the disagreement point is meaning like... in some sort of very negative manner. "Miqote are the best" "no roe are" "banned you toxic player" lol. Obviously way simple and never to happen but I could however imagine someone talking political in a FC and then reporting another for not having their political views align with theirs.


Everything else seems pretty standard.

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

Im nice 2 ppl but on my past account i got report because i was dark lol even though i was nice 2 ppl so try again lol

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How about you try again and show me the chat logs that lead to said report?

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For example if i say hail lucifer once someone gets uncomfortable me get in trouble lol

Or i rp my laylines on blm as a pentagram

Ill be nice,respectful and kind... but i will not change how i have fun with my jobs just because someone doesn't like it

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How about not saying, "Hail Lucifer" if you know it makes someone feel uneasy? lol

How about using ley lines as intended in combat? lol

How about playing single player games if your version of fun is disruptive? lol

If you're a nice, respectful player then why do you sound and smell like a troll?

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

I brought the unsalted popcorn. We can use the salt here and mix it with it. 100% organic rage lol.

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I don't agree with your opinion on agreeing with me. I'm reporting!!!

Obviously joking...but listening to the organic rage here....

With the way they handle forum bans... I don't expect any of this to go well.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Criticizing a player that stays in AoE to gain 0.001 DPS > ban
Asking tank to put shield oath on > ban
Lala joke > ban

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You can do all that and not be a jerk about it.
It's not that hard.
You can tell people to be mindful of AoEs, nicely.
You can ask people to put shield oath, nicely.
You ... can refrain from being judgmental over other people's choice of race and gender in a video game?

I don't know how much if at all these changes will affect me.

I usually am always courteous to others. I don't really talk to people usually unless I'm asking for assistance with crafting, helping with hunts, doing a dungeon/raid, talking with friends, helping another player, or asking a question. I may offer my opinion or comment on a subject but that's about it. All in all I usually trying to be nice to other players and for the most part I just mind my own business.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

So I get the worry at SE going too far, and I'm not going to even try to predict if they will or not.

However, I find it interesting that everybody has immediately jumped to the conclusion that "free speech is dead I can no longer be myself or I'll be banned" and not thought more about situations like the ones we read about "my ex is stalking me and won't remove me from their friends list and constantly makes alts to send me rude/disturbing messages, but SE says they can't step in so all I can do is blacklist them".

I honestly believe this sort of thing at least was created more for the latter than the former. Is there room for the former? Probably. But for people who assume that's why these were put in place, I don't agree.

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The road to hell is paved with good intentions my friend. Nobody thinks that what they're doing is intentionally bad, or oppressive, but people can be so absorbed in doing what seems perfectly reasonable to them that they become oblivious to all the misuse that comes from their idea, and I fear that's exactly what will happen with these new rules. For every outlier like the one in your hypothetical scenario that gets caught, how many do you think will abuse the extremely vague rules for petty reasons or over reactions? I know I meet significantly more people who fit the latter more than the former.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

You can do all that and not be a jerk about it.
It's not that hard.
You can tell people to be mindful of AoEs, nicely.
You can ask people to put shield oath, nicely.
You ... can refrain from being judgmental over other people's choice of race and gender in a video game?

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I have seen games take things too far but honestly... vague or not... this is how I feel about it. I think SE has given themselves a lot more leeway to go after those folks who know every loophole to allow themselves to troll/harass/exploit/manipulate yet stay just within non-penalty-incurring behaviour. I really think they're still going to dump just as many of the "the healer said he went afk and handed his controller to his gf so I reported him can I please give back my XP" reports as they ever did.

But then, the only people I've ever known to even get temp bans in game deserved every minute of it, so.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

・Expressions that contravene public order and morals

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This seems like this one could get iffy. There's many different people from different countries who play this game, and each have their own set of morals.

For example homosexual relationships and marriage is perfectly fine and legal in my country, but there are places in the world where its still frowned upon and illegal.

Which part of the public would be considered going against others? Or about other issues that some find controversial? Maybe even mundane stuff like healers dpsing could end up with disciplinary action if you're on the wrong side.

We'll all have to be more careful about discussion topics from now on.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

You can do all that and not be a jerk about it.
It's not that hard.
You can tell people to be mindful of AoEs, nicely.
You can ask people to put shield oath, nicely.
You ... can refrain from being judgmental over other people's choice of race and gender in a video game?

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No you can't because it violates this rule.

Expressions that compel a playing style

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

You can do all that and not be a jerk about it.
It's not that hard.
You can tell people to be mindful of AoEs, nicely.
You can ask people to put shield oath, nicely.
You ... can refrain from being judgmental over other people's choice of race and gender in a video game?

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Even if your not a jerk about that, the new policy is all about how people percieve the sentence.
Asking to mind the Aoe and put Shield oath on can fall under :
◆Offensive expression
"Offensive expression" means an expression in general that inflicts emotional distress by being offensive to another person. Offensive expression may include:

・Expressions that compel a playing style

Here, compeling someone to get out of AoE or using an ability they don't want

As for lalas...it's not being judgmental, it's making jokes. I was the first to make lala joke when I was one, the same goes for calling my avatar "flea bags" or "classy girafe" depending on my current race.

This is a video game and yet people get offended ALL THE TIME, just like IRL, I don't get it oO

Suggestions are not compulsions. Being polite about it is different from demanding.

Seems to me that anyone worrying about receiving penalties maybe do need to examine their own behavior. It's all pretty common courtesy/decency stuff.

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Originally Posted by Celef

As for lalas...it's not being judgmental, it's making jokes. I was the first to make lala joke when I was one, the same goes for calling my avatar "flea bags" or "classy girafe" depending on my current race.

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Earlier I was in a Seiryu party, and we were all choosing our spots (A, B, C, D) I didn't realise there was 3 people at C where I was standing, as a Lalafell was standing between me and the healer, which with my camera angle, completely blocked my view of them. When someone said "There's 3 people at C" I moved to A and said "My bad, I didn't see the short Lalafell". The lalafell instantly left the trial after my comment :<

Would I get disciplinary action for that comment under the new rules? :<

It all seems very vague and a little too heavy handed for my liking.

The rules more or less state, just be nicer and more considerate but painted in fancier words.
But you all act like the next Calamity is coming. lol
Give it some time before jumping to conclusions.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

"judgmental prick" isn't a playing style. :)

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Sorry, you have been banned for the following rule breaks:
・Expressions that provoke or belittle another person, such as excessive criticism, negation/ridicule
・Expressions that significantly lack consideration for another person
・Expressions that unilaterally reject another person's opinion
・Expressions that any reasonable person would find offensive
・Other expressions that are offensive to another person

Possible: ・Actions that inflict emotional distress using content related to historical events or crimes
if referring to a previous post.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Sorry, you have been banned for the following rule breaks:
・Expressions that provoke or belittle another person, such as excessive criticism, negation/ridicule
・Expressions that significantly lack consideration for another person
・Expressions that unilaterally reject another person's opinion
・Expressions that any reasonable person would find offensive
・Other expressions that are offensive to another person

Possible: ・Actions that inflict emotional distress using content related to historical events or crimes
if referring to a previous post.

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Good thing you aren't a GM. :)

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Seems to me that anyone worrying about receiving penalties maybe do need to examine their own behavior. It's all pretty common courtesy/decency stuff.

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Again, these new rules are all about how the sentence is perceived, not how it is intended.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Earlier I was in a Seiryu party, and we were all choosing our spots (A, B, C, D) I didn't realise there was 3 people at C where I was standing, as a Lalafell was standing between me and the healer, which with my camera angle, completely blocked my view of them. When someone said "There's 3 people at C" I moved to A and said "My bad, I didn't see the short Lalafell". The lalafell instantly left the trial after my comment :<

Would I get disciplinary action for that comment under the new rules? :<

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According to the new rules I'd say yes, considering your sentence can be percieved as being judgmental about his choice of playing a lala.
(Although, who would leave a Trial just for being to his lala is short ? oO It's like....the race main traits ^^")

Shows how easy it is though. All those rules with 1 sentence and some probably missed

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Originally Posted by Celef

According to the new rules I'd say yes, considering your sentence can be percieved as being judgmental about his choice of playing a lala.
(Although, who would leave a Trial just for being to his lala is short ? oO It's like....the race main traits ^^")

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Aye, short was even in their name and they still left :/ My party had a bit of a laugh about it.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

The rules more or less state, just be nicer and more considerate but painted in fancier words.
But you all act like the next Calamity is coming. lol
Give it some time before jumping to conclusions.

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Fancy is not a synonym of vague, and again look at the way bans have been handled in these forums to understand why people dislike the vague wording in these new rules.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

Good thing you aren't a GM. :)

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Gm's are human too. You think that a guy having a bad day who's had to look at multiple reports taking your comment to offense is going to give you leniency?

No such thing as crooked cops, right.

There are MANY examples of lesser offenses getting players banned from the forums.

This has been brought up randomly throughout the thread, but this does make me wonder about how Mentors are supposed to behave now. "How dare that Mentor give me - gasp - advice [report]".
I mean I doubt it'll get that bad but I can see more than a couple misinformed/baiting people throw that around at the first sight of a crown.

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Originally Posted by Krokov

I don't know how much if at all these changes will affect me.

I usually am always courteous to others. I don't really talk to people usually unless I'm asking for assistance with crafting, helping with hunts, doing a dungeon/raid, talking with friends, helping another player, or asking a question. I may offer my opinion or comment on a subject but that's about it. All in all I usually trying to be nice to other players and for the most part I just mind my own business.

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This is honestly all it takes. I've been playing this game for three years, and I've never been reported, contacted by a GM, given any kind of warning, kicked from a party, or disciplined in any way. I follow the ToS, am courteous to other players and their time, stay away from uncivil disputes, and abandon duties that become toxic. That last one I've only had to do once when things got really ugly in Chrysalis about a year ago. There's not secret formula to this. I just play the game. Simple as that.

It's not even duties that concern me with this. I am actually more concerned about the conversations that take place elsewhere. As an example, you have an FC out there who are well established and exhibit locker room/sorority type conduct that is fine within this FC; but then a new member comes along and gets offended, chat logs are viewed, and boom! So I definitely do share the concern about overly sensitive players who instead of walking away like decent human beings, have to make an issue of things using any leverage they can get their hands on.

Simply put, you do have to protect yourself and don't do anything that would warrant corrective action against you. I can understand having to be mindful of what you say, but players who think this zaps the fun away from the game likely have questionable integrity already.

Play the game, mind your own business, be courteous and follow the ToS. These are not unreasonable to ask of other players.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Again, these new rules are all about how the sentence is perceived, not how it is intended.

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And? No mod is going to take action just because, "Well, under some extreme circumstances, 'hi' could potentially be construed as offensive; bans all around."

Civilized interaction isn't under attack here.

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Originally Posted by Kohdo

Well, that's reassuring.

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◆Obstruction of play
- Even if obstruction was not the objective of the behaviour, it may be deemed a violation if another player is actually obstructed by the behaviour.

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..or not.

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Again, I suspect that's to cover them when someone says "oh no, I just felt like parking my Behemoth there for hours, how was I supposed to know all those people were trying to talk to the NPC I accidentally sat on?"

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Gm's are human too. You think that a guy having a bad day who's had to look at multiple reports taking your comment to offense is going to give you leniency?

No such thing as crooked cops, right.

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GMs are human too... and capable of applying common sense. Tired GM is just as likely to say "seriously, you're wasting my time reporting a player because they called a Lalafell short?"

Doubly so if dismissing it means all they need to do is click the delete button instead of having to take action.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

GMs are human too... and capable of applying common sense. Tired GM is just as likely to say "seriously, you're wasting my time reporting a player because they called a Lalafell short?"

Doubly so if dismissing it means all they need to do is click the delete button instead of having to take action.

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Two sides of the same coin. Also, the subjective grey matter of the rules mean that one GM's opinion may differ wildly to another. There is no more need for consistency since the vagueness of each rule can cover every single action.