Please no more Eureka!

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

sooo, the latest Lucky Bancho Lodestone census is out, this time including some numbers for Eureka. According to those, the number of active players per region that have started Eureka is:
58,8% JP
41,4% NA
44,2% EU

and the number of active players that have reached the Pyros level cap of 50 is:
18,6% JP
5,8% NA
7,3% EU

I'd say those numbers speak for themselves about how 'popular' Eureka is

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That fully explains why there were so few Pyros instances per data center even when it was new...

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Originally Posted by HiroesX81

Nice misinformation there buddy. You forgot the part where anima was only done by 9.15% by March 2017 and the number of people capped at 50 in Pyros is JP 32% EU 16.9 % and NA 14.4 %.

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those numbers are in relation to the players that have started Eureka in total. The ones I gave are of the ACTIVE players in total
so nice try yourself

oh, also reaching the level cap doesn't mean that they have a weapon finished. That's be a different statistic.

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

those numbers are in relation to the players that have started Eureka in total. The ones I gave are of the ACTIVE players in total
so nice try yourself

oh, also reaching the level cap doesn't mean that they have a weapon finished. That's be a different statistic.

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Thats still a lower number than anima and doesnt reflect Eureka as a whole. If anything JP plays more Eureka, EU as well. NA doesnt :P As with all niche content only a portion of the player base does it. Did you happen to mention raid numbers and blu numbers too? its the same thing. Plus even if the numbers reflect the ones now playing it doesnt reflect the over all. Hydatos will see an increase. Once again, nice try

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

sooo, the latest Lucky Bancho Lodestone census is out, this time including some numbers for Eureka. According to those, the number of active players per region that have started Eureka is:
58,8% JP
41,4% NA
44,2% EU

and the number of active players that have reached the Pyros level cap of 50 is:
18,6% JP
5,8% NA
7,3% EU

I'd say those numbers speak for themselves about how 'popular' Eureka is

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And your point is ? Seeing how your fflogs percentile get a bit boost in normal difficulty, the numbers speak for themselves about how "popular" savage raids are as well, you know.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

Then pyros.

Bunnies? Nah, people just refuse to do half of them, so logograms are rarer now than they were on the first day.
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Not sure what you mean by half. Cause I've been playing Pyros for one week and if there's ANYTHING people do it's grind bunnies. People AFK there between NMs and groups rush there every-time it pops.

Are you saying no one wants to do North? Because that's ... true and perfectly reasonable. Even at max level there's things up there that will aggro and 2 shot you. Maybe they give higher rates of gold chest? IDK because the one time I did it I didn't get a damn bunny. So what point is there to doing North Bunny Fates? Can't guarantee a bunny and if you get one you gotta risk deleveling because you may end up in a place no one wants to go ... and there's no guarantee you wont get a Bronze chest for your troubles.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

Have been catching a few people up, and Pagos is a lot easier than Pyros for everything except reflect farming.

People in Pagos are actually trying to DO THINGS in Pagos, which makes it go significantly faster.

You will be roadblocked in Pyros hardcore unless you preform a group specifically to do the things you want to do.

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No sure what you mean here either.

I max leveled Pyros in a week by NM and Bunny fate farming along with going back to Pagos to do Ashkin and element clog completes. Once I got to 42 I leveled a few times with solo reflecting before going back to NMs. There's lots of different things to do, be it light farming or reflect farming for logos or bunny fates for chest (And logos and gold and glam and mount) or prepping NMs or reg NM parties. Can't really take a NM train group and say "Lets do Reflecting now!" when you have no reason to think everyone has reflect or can get it.

No different then the other two ... you do Clogs at first and get to a decent level where it's not too scary to do NMs until you're high enough to actually help push through content.

Pagos sucked they learned, between 4.5 and today my hubby and I went from level 20 to 45. And finished the Pagos weapon.

Ty to previous poster. All people do is bunny's and nm train. I'm not mad, people do what they wish. I would have understood if you said no one does the hotbox parties. Those can be rare but I still form groups for it no problem.

I'm excited for this latest zone and I'm confident shadowbringers expansion is going to bring an wonderful experience within its newest exploratory mission. Can't wait.

Not impressed to say the least. If they want to make Diadem 5.x then cut the relic weapon/gear out of it and stop gating everything under the sun behind it - maybe shrink it down so it doesn't require as many players to get things done. That way the small number people who love Eureka can go play in their happy little garden of Eden and leave the rest of us the hell alone. But I'm mostly disappointed that they're still using the same formula from 4 years ago instead of expanding the horizon.

If they want to improve it then do what they did with raids and make every previous "Eureka" tier skippable when a new one is introduced.

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

and the number of active players that have reached the Pyros level cap of 50 is:
18,6% JP
5,8% NA
7,3% EU

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Now we need a simple ingame poll of "Did you enjoy Eureka?", I'd love to see those numbers.
But we don't want to get too transparent, do we Yoshi-P.

I think I heard somewhere that a lot of the developers couldn't wait to get home and play more Eureka, and FFXIV developers try to make this game something they themselves would play, as well as what the playerbase would like to play.
So Eureka, and future eureka-like content is probably here to stay.

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

I'd say those numbers speak for themselves about how 'popular' Eureka is

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Well, in fact, they don't speak anything regarding how popular Eureka is supposed to be...It's a niche content, it's not designed for the majority of players. Or, I guess we should get rid of Savage, because I'm pretty sure the percentage of people that actually cleared Alphascape Savage are significantly lower that those that reached elvl 50.

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Originally Posted by Bobkitty

If they want to improve it then do what they did with raids and make every previous "Eureka" tier skippable when a new one is introduced.

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Sure, like you don't need to do Deltascape to reach Sigmascape then Alphascape. Or like you don't need to do Rabanastre to reach Ridorana and then Orbonne. Or like you don't need to do Hell's lid to eventually reach The Wreath of Snakes...

The only thing I won't like Eureka for... is that after 5.0 its likely gonna die and I won't be able to get the things out of it that I want to get even after 5.0 launches. Unlike the older relics I can at least go back and work on them when I wish.

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Originally Posted by TitaniaZero

The only thing I won't like Eureka for... is that after 5.0 its likely gonna die and I won't be able to get the things out of it that I want to get even after 5.0 launches. Unlike the older relics I can at least go back and work on them when I wish.

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I would like to assume it will be altered so that it can be done solo or with few players.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

Have been catching a few people up, and Pagos is a lot easier than Pyros for everything except reflect farming.

People in Pagos are actually trying to DO THINGS in Pagos, which makes it go significantly faster.

You will be roadblocked in Pyros hardcore unless you preform a group specifically to do the things you want to do.

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That is pretty much the biggest problem in Pyros. This is so obvious meant to be tackled by a group of players of the same level. By now most instances you join are filled by 50's and will be hard pressed to find players of your level. And unfortunatly logo-farming is linked to you level so few people can actually help you.

That whole level system without any syncing needs to be addressed in any future Eureka-like system coming in Shadowbringers.

I really hope we don't see Eureka in any form in Shadowbringers. I was the madman that farmed 7 complete relics in HW. I can't get past Pagos in SB - I just find it utterly mind numbing. I've tried, multiple times, but I just can't bring myself to get through it.

If you enjoy the content, more power to you, but for me it's a huge miss.

Nooo nooo and nooo.

im not sure I can express how disappointed I was when I heard it mentioned they're working on eureka like content for 5.0. I really dont want to have to suffer this kind of content again for a relic. Please dont put the relic in there again...

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Well, in fact, they don't speak anything regarding how popular Eureka is supposed to be...It's a niche content, it's not designed for the majority of players. Or, I guess we should get rid of Savage, because I'm pretty sure the percentage of people that actually cleared Alphascape Savage are significantly lower that those that reached elvl 50.

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yeah, except eureka was introduced as one of the big new features for this expansion. And they locked multiple furniture items, hairstyles, emotes, minions, mounts, TT cards, glamour gear, dyeable AF gear and the relic weapon behind it. The majority of new items and content that came with 4.45 were tied to Pyros, and it will most likely be the same again now with Hydatos.
So this "Eureka is intended as niche content" narrative is just one big pile of PR *kupo* so the devs can pat themselves on the back saying how it's more popular than they expected.

Just saw the final weapons.

Dodged a bullet there, lads.

I disagree, OP. The relic for ARR was a HUGE pain in the ass, as was Anima for HW.

Eureka is a much, much better option. Still time consuming, but a lot less hair pulling than the drop and light farming was for relic and anima.

The only real major improvement they have to do to Eureka is allow for party level sync. I really don't know why this isn't in yet, as they have it in FF11.

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

The majority of new items and content that came with 4.45 were tied to Pyros, and it will most likely be the same again now with Hydatos.

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What ?! You mean the new rewards in 4.55 came with the only new content of 4.55. What a shock !

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

So this "Eureka is intended as niche content" narrative is just one big pile of PR *kupo* so the devs can pat themselves on the back saying how it's more popular than they expected.

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No, it's not...Frankly, the amount of dishonesty about it is painful...it's a big new feature, yes, as is Ultimate. The keyword here is new.
It still was always advertised as not for everyone way before they actually had any participation number. The worse part is that most people disappointed by Eureka use the exact same false claim to justify how they were supposedly been lied to.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Well, in fact, they don't speak anything regarding how popular Eureka is supposed to be...It's a niche content, it's not designed for the majority of players. Or, I guess we should get rid of Savage, because I'm pretty sure the percentage of people that actually cleared Alphascape Savage are significantly lower that those that reached elvl 50.

Sure, like you don't need to do Deltascape to reach Sigmascape then Alphascape. Or like you don't need to do Rabanastre to reach Ridorana and then Orbonne. Or like you don't need to do Hell's lid to eventually reach The Wreath of Snakes...

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First off savage and ultimate were both better received than Eureka by the players. Also more players in one =/= it is better, SE dumped the relic + every other new item they came up with behind Eureka. If they put a bunch of other fancy garbo into the 12S chest you'd see more people trying their hand too.

Second, using story modes (which did not exist for 1.x raids in case you have forgotten) in your argument is plain stupid since they take significantly less time to complete than one Eureka zone. You don't need to clear the last savage raid of each tier to start the next one anymore. Did not enjoy/bother with Delta/Sigma Savage but want that BIS weapon now? No problem, complete the super easy story modes and you can get started with Alpha.

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Originally Posted by Bobkitty

First off savage and ultimate were both better received than Eureka by the players.

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It's because non hardcore players understood that these weren't for them and didn't come here complaining that it didn't match their goals and that they were forced to do it to obtain a Savage/Ultimate weapon.

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Originally Posted by Bobkitty

Also more players in one =/= it is better

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I didn't say that, it's just nonsense to conclude that low percentage = failed content, since several content are expected to only have a small fraction of the playerbase. But again, only Eureka haters conveniently forgot that Eureka was advertised as a niche content from the very beginning.

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Originally Posted by Bobkitty

If they put a bunch of other fancy garbo into the 12S chest you'd see more people trying their hand too.

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No, people would complain that they had to clear a hard content for a mount, hairstyle, or whatever...exactly what they did with Coil, thus, the reason why Story/Savage was created.

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Originally Posted by Bobkitty

Second, using story modes (which did not exist for 1.x raids in case you have forgotten) in your argument is plain stupid since they take significantly less time to complete than one Eureka zone.

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No, using story mode is relevant because we compare story content. I also could have said that you need to clear Steps of Faith to reach Ala Mhigo, because it's a leveling content. But I guess it's far too complicated to anticipate that you had to reach level cap to have access to the next leveling zone the first time they said there was a leveling system, right ?

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Originally Posted by Bobkitty

You don't need to clear the last savage raid of each tier to start the next one anymore.

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That is irrelevant, since there's no lore connection between each tier of Savage, contrary to Eureka. Also, Savage is unrestricted because they don't want to force people clearing hard content. And frankly, leveling and clearing the Eureka strory is far from hard or time consuming. You don't need to do the relic to have access to Hydatos.

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Originally Posted by Bobkitty

Did not enjoy/bother with Delta/Sigma Savage but want that BIS weapon now? No problem, complete the super easy story modes and you can get started with Alpha.

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Oh, so you're upset that you have to do the Anemos weapon to reach the Hydatos weapon ? That's the whole concept of the relic...

These people saying relic was worth than tomestones clearly did not play at all during HW. Yes, relics were delayed a HALF patch (3 weeks) after savage starting with zenith, but it was only a half patch. Upgrading a tomestone weapon without savage is always a full X.1 patch behind (12 weeks).

12-3 = 9 weeks. For 9 out of 12 weeks, the relic is tied as the highest ilvl weapon in the game with savage (which is still tied for highest level, and was the solo highest lvl for the first 3). This was the formula for the remainder of ARR after zenith, and all of HW after they caught up (initial release was late, so this was around the time of hyperconductive. The "complete", the "sharpened" and the "lux" weapons in HW were all BiS tied with savage for the majority of the HW lifecycle. Only in Eureka has it been so delayed that at NO point in the Anemos/Pagos/Pyros timeline was the relic highest ilvl.

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Originally Posted by PortalScience

Yes, relics were delayed a HALF patch (3 weeks) after savage starting with zenith, but it was only a half patch. Upgrading a tomestone weapon without savage is always a full X.1 patch behind (12 weeks).

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• Anima was released in 3.15. 5 months after Savage, for an i210 weapon. At that time, you could have an upgraded tome 1 month earlier, and it's without counting the actual time to get the Anima weapon, with the mysterious step.
  
• The next step was released in 3.25, 5 weeks after the new tome weapon for an i230. So, the Anima weapon was better than the basic tome weapon for at best, 2 weeks, and that's if you did it by grinding tomestone and not waiting for the Archmagus lockout. And Midan weapons were way above at i245.
  
• The following step was released in 3.3 for an i240 weapon, so at the same time that you could upgrade your tome weapon with Mhach...for the dreaded Umbrite steps, requiring lots of tomestones. So, you'd probably have your weapon later, and, again, not that much better than a tome weapon, considering the work you had to do to obtain it.
  
• Next step, 3.45, 5 weeks after the new tome for an i260 weapon. So, again, Anima was better for at best, 2 weeks than a basic tome weapon. And Alexandrian weapons peaked at i275.
  
• Next step, 3.5, for an i270 weapon. The same time where Dun Scaith allows for an upgraded tome weapon...so the same ilvl.
  
• Last step 3.55 for the Lux weapon.

So, basically, the Anima was on par with a tome weapon for most of its lifetime, sometimes even on par with a non-upgraded tome weapon. It was only better for a few weeks while waiting for your last raid tokens, or at the very end of HW cycle, month after the highest content was cleared. As for the Savage weapon, the first one was tied with the Gordian weapon (Since it didn't have the 5 ilvl bump), and apart from that, only the very last step had the same ilvl.

So, in fact, you didn't even check your facts before claiming that people "did not play at all during HW". Nice one !

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

• Anima was released in 3.15. 5 months after Savage, for an i210 weapon. At that time, you could have an upgraded tome 1 month earlier, and it's without counting the actual time to get the Anima weapon, with the mysterious step.
  
• The next step was released in 3.25, 5 weeks after the tome upgrade for an i230. So, the Anima weapon was better than the basic tome weapon for at best, 2 weeks, and that's if you did it by grinding tomestone and not waiting for the Archmagus lockout. And Midan weapons were way above at i245.
  
• The following step was released in 3.3 for an i240 weapon, so at the same time that you could upgrade your tome weapon with Mhach...for the dreaded Umbrite steps, requiring lots of tomestones. So, you'd probably have your weapon later, and, again, not that much better than a tome weapon, considering the work you had to do to obtain it.
  
• Next step, 3.45, 5 weeks after the new tome for an i260 weapon. So, again, Anima was better for at best, 2 weeks than a basic tome weapon. And Alexandrian weapons peaked at i275.
  
• Next step, 3.5, for an i270 weapon. The same time where Dun Scaith allows for an upgraded tome weapon...so the same ilvl.
  
• Last step 3.55 for the Lux weapon.

So, basically, the Anima was on par with a tome weapon for most of its lifetime, sometimes even on par with a non-upgraded tome weapon. It was only better for a few weeks while waiting for your last raid tokens, or at the very end of HW cycle, month after the highest content was cleared. As for the Savage weapon, the first one was tied with the Gordian weapon (Since it didn't have the 5 ilvl bump), and apart from that, only the very last step had the same ilvl.

So, in fact, you didn't even check your facts before claiming that people "did not play at all during HW". Nice one !

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The weapon upgrade through 24 mans was always introduced at the nex even patch or a minor patch few weeks before the next even patch

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Originally Posted by Legion88

The weapon upgrade through 24 mans was always introduced at the nex even patch or a minor patch few weeks before the next even patch

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Ok, my bad. So at 3.5, you could expect people having an Anima higher than an upgraded Tome Weapon. For 3.3, considering the time it takes to do the Umbrite step, the upgraded weapon at 3.38 was a better alternative.

Anima was still far from BiS "for the majority of HW".

And, I also excluded Primal Weapons, that were, at worst only 5 ilvl lower than the Anima, but didn't require all the jumps through hoops to obtain.

What's ridiculous to me is that the final zone is just a big rectangle.

That's it.

No ingenuity whatsoever.

More Eureka like content please. I haven't gotten a chance to try out hydatos yet cause of work. However I have hopes the dungeon they teased will have a feel similar to Dynamis on FFXI.

If anything remotely close to Eureka is announced for Shadowbringers there goes my sub, I'm tired of paying for a game that receives F2P MMO content, at SE they think players are stupid.

All the development time, effort and money went to the trash with Eureka. Instead of improve the current content and tiers of difficulty, and think about actually FUN content, they just decide to do some recolors, design the worst maps anyone can imagine and force you to join a 8 people party to afk, because the best way to do Eureka is either using exploits, afk or hit the keyboard with the head, quality content.

Farm Savage (play 2 hours a week for weekly drops and call it a day) is actually easier and more appealing than waste your life and sanity in that hell hole, pressing two skills every 20 minutes to get a miserable reward from FATE.

And I don't even want to talk about gating stuff behind lootboxes, nothing better than pay money every month to gamble with lootboxes, good job SE ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As a dev you have a problem when you need to bribe players to do your new content, the team behind the game either doesn't even play the game themselves, live inside a bubble disconnected from everything or their definition of "fun content" is make people want to quit the game.

I think that its time for players to stop demanding the end of content for being too hard.

Lately the main complaint is that the game is getting stale. How will they ever want to do new content if all we do is complain?

I agree that light farming isn't fun, but Im sick of seeing content get discontinued from overblown complaints.

How about we ask the devs to make Eureka 2.0 BETTER next time instead of just having it removed entirely. I have seen too many unique ideas removed in this game over the mentality that hard equals deleting said content.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I think that its time for players to stop demanding the end of content for being too hard.

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People don't complain that Eureka is too hard, they complain that it's too tedious. Anyone can grind Eureka, the problem is, barely anyone other than a select group of people actually want to. Most of us are older gamers now who have forgone the days where we felt like wasting 8 hours grinding a sliver of exp or 1% progress towards a questline was fun.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

How about we ask the devs to make Eureka 2.0 BETTER next time instead of just having it removed entirely. I have seen too many unique ideas removed in this game over the mentality that hard equals deleting said content.

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We did. They kept making it worse.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I think that its time for players to stop demanding the end of content for being too hard.

Lately the main complaint is that the game is getting stale. How will they ever want to do new content if all we do is complain?

I agree that light farming isn't fun, but Im sick of seeing content get discontinued from overblown complaints.

How about we ask the devs to make Eureka 2.0 BETTER next time instead of just having it removed entirely. I have seen too many unique ideas removed in this game over the mentality that hard equals deleting said content.

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The problem with Eureka isn't difficulty but some parts boredom and some parts disgust. Some of us even were tired of Diadem its first time around, in 3.1. Locking the relic behind it was all the more aggravating, and many of us only touch Eureka because it's the only way to get that BiS or piece of glamour; while many of us have to miss out because we cannot stomach this form of content. Again, that's not difficulty, nor is understanding this. That is flavor, and a great many of us would gladly pass on a third or seventh serving, depending on how you count it.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Most of us are older gamers now who have forgone the days where we felt like wasting 8 hours grinding a sliver of exp or 1% progress towards a questline was fun.

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If you can't progress faster than that in Eureka, then you're doing something wrong.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

If you can't progress faster than that in Eureka, then you're doing something wrong.

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Anyone could tell that was an exaggerated example, but still somewhat relative in regards to Eureka about the idea that most people are over the senseless grinds in MMO games as a measure of "fun" and engaging content, even worse when things like the relic are tied to it that some players may find important to them.

Except for you apparently, but I should have seen that one coming.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Anyone could tell that was an exaggerated example, but still somewhat relative in regards to Eureka about the idea that most people are over the senseless grinds in MMO games as a measure of "fun" and engaging content, even worse when things like the relic are tied to it that some players may find important to them.

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Was lurking until now, but I have to respond here. The relic was always meant for something to be done over time, not gotten quickly like raid, crafting, or tomestone weapons. Just looking at the earlier relics can tell you it was always meant to be a grind, and doing things you didn't want to do. The original ARR relic required us to actually go through the hard mode primals back when they were actually difficult, kill 10 different endgame monsters 10 times, do multiple FATEs (which everybody dislikes), and run through multiple dungeons praying for a drop and do a crapton of other things nobody liked. I understand the frustration involved currently, but the relic has always been an annoying grind doing things you didn't want to do, always. Not once has it forced people to do anything, it has always been your choice to do it. Do not act like this relic is any different from the past ones.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Except for you apparently, but I should have seen that one coming.

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Also please lay off the personal insults, no need for incivility.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Was lurking until now, but I have to respond here. The relic was always meant for something to be done over time, not gotten quickly like raid, crafting, or tomestone weapons. Just looking at the earlier relics can tell you it was always meant to be a grind, and doing things you didn't want to do. The original ARR relic required us to actually go through the hard mode primals back when they were actually difficult, kill 10 different endgame monsters 10 times, do multiple FATEs (which everybody dislikes), and run through multiple dungeons praying for a drop and do a crapton of other things nobody liked. I understand the frustration involved currently, but the relic has always been an annoying grind doing things you didn't want to do, always. Not once has it forced people to do anything, it has always been your choice to do it. Do not act like this relic is any different from the past ones.

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It is different from the past ones because the grinds included different things that you needed to do: you needed to go back to the hard mode primals for one step, another step had you doing FATES, another step had you procuring or crafting CERTAIN items. Yes, the tediousness of the grind was still always there because it was the relic, but it had you MOVING to different areas and doing different things each step of the way. You never stayed within one instance for the entirety of the grind and you could solo most of the steps without burdening other people.

Now, we have the relic tied to an entire instance where you are basically doing the same crap over and over again just in a different scenery. You are forced into an entirely predictable routine and instead of being able to casually just sort of grind out certain steps on your own without being in a party, you are forced to party with other people just to get anywhere and some people just coming in are having a really hard time stomaching through Pyros and leveling.

I enjoyed the past relics because, as repetitious as it was, each part had me at least doing or going somewhere else. It also had parts where I didn't always have to rely on my FC members to get things done and could be self-sufficient since not everyone likes to be bothered with relic shenanigans.

The rewards are simply not worth the amount of work anymore and a good portion of people are starting to see that from Eureka. It's why people dropped Diadem so quickly once we all learned what the true nature of that place was and the initial "fun" of it quickly died within the first few weeks.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Also please lay off the personal insults, no need for incivility.

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Telling someone that something flew right over their head or they took it too seriously and were nitpicking it for the sake of nitpicking it into a hyperbole isn't a personal insult. Calm down.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

snip

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For some part of it yes, but other required nothing as set in stone as eureka, HW has some step not even requiring anything special, just do your daily basis and progress even a little on it, you could do whatever the hell you want and still progress your relic slowly, light farm wasn't locked in X place killing absurd amount of trash or fates, you could just gain light by playing normaly farming anything else during the process and still progressing in your relics.

The most funny part is that the most hated part of relics AKA Atma was about chaining fate people despise so much and what we get in eureka ? Yup fate in anemos, fate in pagos, fate in pyros and guess what ?! Fate in hydatos. So much variety it hurt.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Anyone could tell that was an exaggerated example, but still somewhat relative in regards to Eureka about the idea that most people are over the senseless grinds in MMO games as a measure of "fun" and engaging content, even worse when things like the relic are tied to it that some players may find important to them.

Except for you apparently, but I should have seen that one coming.

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If you are not up for some grind you should probably rather play a single player game or skip the grind part of MMOs.
MMOs need grind to stay alive and keep the Players which spend a few hours a day playing.
Nobody will like every kind of content an MMO offers, i don´t like pvp for example and wont do any ultimates, but since there are ppl who want it, im totally ok with the devs putting time and ressources into it.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

If you are not up for some grind you should probably rather play a single player game or skip the grind part of MMOs.
MMOs need grind to stay alive and keep the Players which spend a few hours a day playing.
Nobody will like every kind of content an MMO offers, i don´t like pvp for example and wont do any ultimates, but since there are ppl who want it, im totally ok with the devs putting time and ressources into it.

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MMO's don't need grinds to stay alive. If that were the case then we'd all still be playing Everquest. I only spend a few hours a day playing because I work 7 days a week. What's your point? By your logic, Eureka was made specifically for people like myself (it's not).

Also:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laphael

If you are not up for some grind you should probably rather play a single player game or skip the grind part of MMOs.

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This is a terrible rebuttal towards anything. Even single player games can have grinds in them and the idea of a person not liking what Eureka has turned into doesn't mean that they need to start playing single player games. Criticism isn't a bad thing, assuming everything that the devs make is perfect is.