Regarding that Finaland Interview...

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

And how are you supposed to click on a door if you're not subbed? That was also part of the question.

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Apartments don't demo if you unsub, so if you wanted to take a break like the guy is asking then you're fine.

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You're treating the matters of the heart as if it was a fault.

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I'm not but it's been how many years has it been? They obviously can not just implement more housing so if it's that important to you, go to where housing is available.

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You can advocate that the only things in housing that matters should be utility

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I don't know how many times I have to explain this, I'm not advocating for anything me listing those things are actual features of other games. Those are things where housing is legitimately needed and if everyone couldn't get it, it would be a problem and if a dev said what Yoshi said then, in that situation then yep he's definitely out of touch.

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I fail to see how it's on people when that's basically one of the goals in mind when Yoshida created housing.

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He didn't create housing for everyone to have one, he intentionally created housing for FCs and then said he was going to add separate personal housing.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

He didn't create housing for everyone to have one, he intentionally created housing for FCs and then said he was going to add separate personal housing.

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IIRC, personal housing was supposed to be separate from FC housing, but it isn't, and so we have the hot mess that we know as XIV's housing. I'm a big fan of instanced housing. Even with instanced housing, I've seen games that still allow you to have neighbors/friends in your instance (RIP Wildstar). As it is now, housing wards are pretty pointless. They're huge, and mostly dead - even on Balmung.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Apartments don't demo if you unsub, so if you wanted to take a break like the guy is asking then you're fine.

Houses do.



I'm not but it's been how many years has it been? They obviously can not just implement more housing so if it's that important to you, go to where housing is available.

Okay but I'm not vouching for that sort of suggestion. Nor did I mention it so I don't know why you're bringing this up to the discussion of people who already have a house, want to take a break from their sub but don't want relocate their belongings to an apartment.

You know, like Yoshida did.



I don't know how many times I have to explain this, I'm not advocating for anything me listing those things are actual features of other games. Those are things where housing is legitimately needed and if everyone couldn't get it, it would be a problem and if a dev said what Yoshi said then, in that situation then yep he's definitely out of touch.

You've repeated many times to others that other things in the game matter because they're needed but housing isn't. Again, what matters in the game, at some point, has a different value for everyone else. If you wan't argue fact for fact what is needed, we'd be stripping the game pretty barebone. You've repeated many times that it's on people if they have attachment to housing as if they were at fault. You're advocating that housing shouldn't matter because it's not needed.



He didn't create housing for everyone to have one, he intentionally created housing for FCs and then said he was going to add separate personal housing.

And why did he create seperate personal housing? Because it was requested. Why was it requested? Because people wanted it. What's an mmo company's main aim? To aim to please and go after their desires. I don't even know why I had to explain that.

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At this point, I'm not even sure what you're trying argue here as you're pulling other argument points from just to supplement your viewpoint that housing's not needed. A lot of things in the game is not needed. Heck as you even pointed out, the game should've just run on msq and gear progression because that's what's needed to go further. But SE did not stop at just that because realistically, that would've failed. They added a boat load of stuff because like any smart gaming company that creates mmos, the more features you have in the game, even the optional ones, the more you can reel in and possibly keep. The responsibility to make sure those optional features are up to standards go to the ones who make it.

If you feel Yoshida isn't out of touch because, as you like mentioning, it's on people for valuing optional content in the game and him making apathetic statements that further riles up people who value that content, then you and I have nothing further to discuss. If you want to explore and/or discuss realistic suggestions that could be made to housing in the game, other than trying to redirect players into leaving their houses to go to an apartment, I'm right here.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

The housing wards are dead on most server. I've been playing on 4 servers in EU and housing wards are dead on all of them. There's hardly anybody there. If there are they're most likely inside their house.
The majority of people online will be in Limsa standing about and waiting for the DF queue or PF group to fill up.

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Its funny because a FC must have bought a house near mine and suddenly for the first time since quite a while I have people jumping around the wards, saying hello or watching me work. I honestly was a bit annoyed at that after some time so I mostly just craft inside my house now (god I am a grumpy old lady arent I?) But it also showed me how much the reasons for wards often told hold up.

Also about apartments: We could have a deal Yoshida if we could buy unlimited apartments in all city states and buy more rooms for each apartment too. Otherwise...no apartments are not a good other way to have a house. As a FC you get no workshop, and for everyone you get no big garden plot. You have not outside space to decorate and the inside is so small that you can barely do anything with it. You could barely even use any of the house items they create per patch or throw into the events.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

At this point, I'm not even sure what you're trying argue here as you're pulling other argument points from just to supplement your viewpoint that housing's not needed. A lot of things in the game is not needed. Heck as you even pointed out, the game should've just run on msq and gear progression because that's what's needed to go further. But SE did not stop at just that because realistically, that would've failed. They added a boat load of stuff because like any smart gaming company that creates mmos, the more features you have in the game, even the optional ones, the more you can reel in and possibly keep. The responsibility to make sure those optional features are up to standards go to the ones who make it.

If you feel Yoshida isn't out of touch because, as you like mentioning, it's on people for valuing optional content in the game and him making apathetic statements that further riles up people who value that content, then you and I have nothing further to discuss. If you want to explore and/or discuss realistic suggestions that could be made to housing in the game, other than trying to redirect players into leaving their houses to go to an apartment, I'm right here.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/1Z02vuppxP1Pa/giphy.gif

Perhaps I didn't get my point across correctly. But your entire post is basically what I've been trying to argue.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

IIRC, personal housing was supposed to be separate from FC housing, but it isn't, and so we have the hot mess that we know as XIV's housing. I'm a big fan of instanced housing. Even with instanced housing, I've seen games that still allow you to have neighbors/friends in your instance (RIP Wildstar). As it is now, housing wards are pretty pointless. They're huge, and mostly dead - even on Balmung.

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Yeah, it was, wasn't it? I observed that FC houses weren't exactly selling hotly. Very few large houses (and when you have a large, active FC that actually did want to hang out, a small quickly became cramped feeling). There were more mediums than larges and they were an OK middle ground, but small houses were not really wanted for active and large FCs. Also, houses cost a lot back then. Not like now where gil rains from the heavens or legacy servers that kept their gil. A small was 5m - pretty hard to get back then when dungeons didn't drop any gil at all; 200k was considered rich. Larges were as high as 87m. I'd guess our current apartments were set up to be that affordable, separate personal housing, but because Yoshida didn't want the wards to stay as vacant as they were then, he just opened them up to FC and personal. That's just my speculation, though.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Yeah, it was, wasn't it? I observed that FC houses weren't exactly selling hotly. Very few large houses (and when you have a large, active FC that actually did want to hang out, a small quickly became cramped feeling). There were more mediums than larges and they were an OK middle ground, but small houses were not really wanted for active and large FCs. Also, houses cost a lot back then. Not like now where gil rains from the heavens or legacy servers that kept their gil. A small was 5m - pretty hard to get back then when dungeons didn't drop any gil at all; 200k was considered rich. Larges were as high as 87m. I'd guess our current apartments were set up to be that affordable, separate personal housing, but because Yoshida didn't want the wards to stay as vacant as they were then, he just opened them up to FC and personal. That's just my speculation, though.

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Larges went up to 200 million, smalls were 15 on some servers.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

The only thing WoW's transmog system has over the glamour system is account wide appearances being saved rather than having to hold onto items.

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Given our inventory bloat... that's a pretty big deal.

Don't have to grind appearances per character...
Don't have to drop by the inn anytime you want to apply an appearance without having to hold onto the appearance's source item...

Only step after that is to save appearances to slots, job-by-job, so that new gear doesn't force the use of a glamour prism of inn run, but that convenience likely might not be as worth the systemic hassle here as on WoW.

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

See, here’s the problem with this statement. People are still subscribed and paying SE money. You want things to be shaken up and changed, then stop giving them your money. I promise you that they’ll hear that far more readily than the entitled cries of people who want to keep a house in a game they no longer play. When you unsub, SE has to consider that you will never come back or else they waste resources that currently subbed players can use.

You hear an argument you don’t like and right away use the “white knight/fanboy/fangirl” defense and that’s dumb. I don’t care who is in charge of the game. All I care about is that they make a game I’m happy to give my money to and play. And while there are things I’d wish were different, and it might come as a shock to many of the people on these boards, some of us actually like this game.

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The last couple times WoWers decided collectively to "vote with their wallets", Blizzard doubled down on the things they quit over while deemphasizing the more ambitious developments those groups said were lacking from the present game.

You should never vote solely with your wallet or through boycott, etc.; it provides zero information to development while defunding it.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Also about apartments: We could have a deal Yoshida if we could buy unlimited apartments in all city states and buy more rooms for each apartment too. Otherwise...no apartments are not a good other way to have a house. As a FC you get no workshop, and for everyone you get no big garden plot. You have not outside space to decorate and the inside is so small that you can barely do anything with it. You could barely even use any of the house items they create per patch or throw into the events.

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Considering house interiors are already instanced, there's no reason why FCs couldn't have a workshop attached if FCs could buy apartments in addition to houses.

Most players I know with houses don't garden at all. If they have a garden plot placed, it's usually empty or at most being used for shards. It might be interesting one day when bored to survey all the houses and see which are using their garden plot and how many are intercross gardening (which is the only gardening that requires the outdoor plot, yield/HQ can still be achieved through the indoor flower pots).

Many also don't care about having a yard, it's the interior space they're looking for. Give apartments interior options comparable to house interiors and they'd become far more popular especially since there is no risk of auto-demo. That would open up more houses on the crowded worlds to FCs and players who do want to garden seriously.

As for the complaints about the wards being dead, why would anyone expect them to be busy? Think about the things that make a neighborhood feel busy in real life.

People traveling to/from work and school or on errands. We teleport everywhere, we don't have to follow the "roads" to exit a ward.

Homemakers doing chores. The only outdoor activity in housing to simulate this is gardening and even if you're a compulsive fertilizer with a large house it only takes a few minutes a day.

Children out playing. We have no children.

Someone throwing a party so people who don't live in the neighborhood come to visit for an afternoon/evening. How many players throw a party at their house on a regular basis?

The wards should feel dead. If players are online, they're more likely to be doing content elsewhere. It would be weird to be seeing the other 29 house owners in your ward all the time.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The wards should feel dead. If players are online, they're more likely to be doing content elsewhere. It would be weird to be seeing the other 29 house owners in your ward all the time.

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I see my neighbor up the hill fairly regularly but I don't really interact with them. Other than that my ward is largely dead. Filled to the brim with plots, but devoid of any real player interaction. That's basically what to expect though and has been my experience in every ward I've lived in. (Lavender Beds, Goblet and now Shirogane)

What was the situation like in regards to player housing in FFXI? Did it exist...and if so, did every player have access to it?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

What was the situation like in regards to player housing in FFXI? Did it exist...and if so, did every player have access to it?

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In FF XI all players got what is essentially "inn rooms" in FF XIV, only they could be decorated with furnishings.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

What was the situation like in regards to player housing in FFXI? Did it exist...and if so, did every player have access to it?

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Think of the inn room in XIV but you can place things in it. That was it for most of the game's life. It's similar to what you can do with apartments and single rooms in other MMOs with no lawn, but didn't require you to purchase it. Later they added another floor but it was basically the same thing, you used the door to zone into it so it wasn't like you went up some steps or anything it was just another instance. Later they added an "outdoor area" that was basically the same for everyone. Basically everyone got a "copy" of the same instance and it would look different depending on what nation you were at just like the inn rooms in XIV.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

https://www.finaland.com/?rub=site&page=news&id=6350

Every time I think Yoshida can't be out of touch anymore then he already is, he surprises me with this:

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Kinda reminds me of this...

https://orig00.deviantart.net/fb08/f...rt-d7gsbcf.png

*edit - nevermind the extra floor was talked about lol
But yes the mog houses in XI were pretty like the apartments in XIV (size wise) only could put a vast amount of cool items in the mog house. And nice thing I liked about it, when you logout in your mog house, you log in, you were still in your mog house. I know, odd thing but I like to be able to logout in my house and then log back in while still in my house rather then standing outside. The outside garden was pretty neat also imo.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Yeah. I mean you can do way crazier things already using non job specific gear. Like swimsuits, chocobo/moogle/pig suits. The sky rat and shisui fending sets are hilarious as 'tank gear.' Wedding dresses and tuxedos, character costumes etc, there is already so much you could do yet he thinks that THIS is pandora's box and will cause untold chaos.

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Yeah I don't get it >_> between what you just said and with the option to not display a weapon equipped its already a crap shoot in guessing what player is what at face value unless you either stop to inspect everyone or are grouped with them and can see their job icon. Coupled with some of the more silly mounts. So according to Yoshidas reply based on the currant game is a white mage with a chocobo head, werewolf legs and arms and wearing a tuxedo suit while riding a flying elephant is totally a white mage but a white mage with plate gauntlets on isn't? Okay Yoshida >_>

My 2B Glam which is restricted to Bard and Machinist only would have been great on Sam but alas they wish to restrict to jobs

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

In FF XI all players got what is essentially "inn rooms" in FF XIV, only they could be decorated with furnishings.

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One additional point of emphasis: the equivalent nature of the housing in XI ensured equal access to the possible bonuses available (such as reduced XP loss on death), in addition to Gardening.

In my estimation, this is one of the more problematic aspects of XIV's Apartments. While they're a similar size to XI's Mog Houses (well, to the original MH pre-second-floor), they don't provide equivalent access to Gardening, nor will they permit the higher-level FC Actions or FC Workshop access.

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

One additional point of emphasis: the equivalent nature of the housing in XI ensured equal access to the possible bonuses available (such as reduced XP loss on death), in addition to Gardening.

In my estimation, this is one of the more problematic aspects of XIV's Apartments. While they're a similar size to XI's Mog Houses (well, to the original MH pre-second-floor), they don't provide equivalent access to Gardening, nor will they permit the higher-level FC Actions or FC Workshop access.

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I didn't play FF XI long and never really messed with my Mog House much, so the responses on this page are appreciated. I didn't know that they had (or added) various things. It has been about 9 years or so since I last played after playing for about a year-ish. Had a blast though and will never forget it.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

He didn't create housing for everyone to have one, he intentionally created housing for FCs and then said he was going to add separate personal housing.

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And ... he didnt do a separate personnal housing. we wait again after this promise (one of the quote in my signs...)

Originally, personnal housing was intend for 6 month after FC housing (so for 2.3)
When the patch was soon, he said he had to delay personnal housing (no matter ok. really) and gave us personnal room instead of. (so personnal room ARE NOT personnal housing)
2.38, personnal housing did came in servers. and this time, housing died. not enough houses, amny FC dont have their own. And in HW release, 3x12 ward... 2 years after in SB release 3x12 ward... 4.1 yay, 12 more wards and burning forums due to the bullshit...
Then now... 4.2 came with now 4x18 ward and the promise to get more ward as patch will progress... (4.3 and 4.4 no ward... )


Appartment are NOT the personnal housing, was never announced this way, was a cheap way to solve people wanting house...



THe personnal housing was promised to be not "with" FC housing (other ward, other system like instanced, i dont know we never knew what was in his mind). And he did change his mind "to get living neighborhood" Simply, he did consider if there were FC housing wards, and personnal housing wards, the second kind would be empty from any life, and he did want to avoid it, so he did add the personnal housing in the already existing ward (1=>6) and added ward either for FC and personnal. (just 4.2 did a small change on it.)
*look at the 72 ward* ... Yeah, right, neighborhood are really living ...


But, at least now, he admits that the destroy system of houses are for people paying subscription...

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

But, at least now, he admits that the destroy system of houses are for people paying subscription...

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In fairness to Yoshi-P, they really don't have a lot of choice right now. Under the current system, it's essential that SE ensure at least a nominal level of turnover so that people on crowded servers don't feel completely cut off from housing.

My greater issue, personally, is not with the demo system - it's with the general responses by Yoshi-P, and what I perceive to be a relative lack of empathy and understanding. I have to question whether or not he understands that owning a house is a major goal for a lot of players, a goal that they are not able to properly achieve, particularly if they are seeking medium or large plots. Implicit in this, of course, is the fact that players who do own medium or large plots already can feel trapped into their subscription, because they likely won't be able to get a plot back in the future.

To make matters worse, empathy is free. It doesn't cost a dime for Yoshi-P to respond sympathetically to housing or Glamour concerns, or to acknowledge player perspectives. Consider if his response had been the following:

"I understand that homeowners feel trapped into maintaining their subscription when they may otherwise let it lapse. I want to assure them that we don't like the demolition system either - but we have to ensure some level of turnover so new players get a chance to own a house, too. Rest assured, we're always evaluating the various systems within FFXIV, and if we have an opportunity to expand housing availability enough for everyone to own a home who wants one, we'll be discarding the demolition system right away."

Speaking personally, this response would have been aces for me. Despite committing to nothing, it would have assured me that Yoshi-P understood. I'll settle for that. Most people, provided they understand the desires of their customers, will eventually work to meet them. I have no doubt that Yoshi-P would as well. But it seems that at every turn, he demonstrates that he doesn't even know what we want, what our pain points are - and that's a much more problematic situation.

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

And ... he didnt do a separate personnal housing. we wait again after this promise (one of the quote in my signs...)

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The sad thing is that a lot about housing are lies.

- FC and private being separate is a lie
- Private housing being cheaper is a lie (and since we are missing important features like more buyable rooms and the workshop we are paying for something that we dont get..)
- Never having a timer or a fee to maintain house is a lie

Then they told us that we would get double the amount of apartments at release but because of server and other reasons we only got half the amount. Also they have talked about making them different sizes but until now nothing of that has happened. Yet at the same time we get more and more housing items in a game where not everyone can have one and where you only get the housing item with the event or with real life money a year later..

Honestly that feature is quite a mess of wrong decisions and lots of lies. I am just not sure how they never saw that wards for FC and private would be a mess...(and having no restrictions on top of that to stop people from owning whole wards..) And now imo they just want to stick with this system because otherwise it would look like they have made a mistake..but this will only get worse. They cant give us new wards all the time yet if the game continues to grow more people want one. So its just living on a big amount of band-aids right now. And should the game ever get less popular and they want to merge servers they will have the problem of not being able to do that because people on one server will lose their housing because of the wards..

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

In fairness to Yoshi-P, they really don't have a lot of choice right now. Under the current system, it's essential that SE ensure at least a nominal level of turnover so that people on crowded servers don't feel completely cut off from housing.

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i was one of people really anjoying this reboot, full of hope. There were many promises, or even more some commitment. And it makes a shining future for the game. During ARR i did a lot of defense for FFXIV... the only thing i did not defend was atmas... For all other, i did say the game, the team, their leader needed time to fix themselves... But most promises and commitment was broken, or cheated.


Housing... it is full of trick, broken promises, the content you can get if you are lucky.
The "destroy system" was a COMMITMENT not a simple promises "but this is a thing of the past " he said, it is hard words. he did really show those things as bad things to do.

Yes, in the current case, it is needed. But the "turnover" is not the main reason, in this finaland interview he did a link between "no sub" and "take appartment". and finally the promises before 4.2 to get more wards in other patches, where it is? Lets go to nothing until 5.0 or 5.1? Why not adding any single ward during HW also?...

And finally, the destroy system should been avoid. How? make a REAL delay to personnal housing. Yes i am happy to get my two houses (stop, i have 2 account è_é). But when i see all the shit ...
I mainly thing about Free Companies... which cant get houses even with the destroy system... (prove this system doesnt do his work )
They did knew how much houses they could add. and simple mathematics did allow them to know it wouldnt be enough for FC + personnal... they did a real, big mistake. With no reason, no excuse.

If we did get appartment in 2.38 instead of houses. most matters around housing wouldnt exists... I wouldnt cry if he said "we dont have ability to release a personnal housing where each player gets 1 house. we prefer delay this to an unknown patch where it will be avaible. please understand. But here is some appartments in addition of personnal room." Sad but... better than what we have now...

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

Consider if his response had been the following:

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I speak not a lot there, more on french forum. and i say one thing there many time :

The matter of FFXIV is not "the cash shop in subscription MMORPG" "the treadmill" "eureka is diadem" or many other things.
I dislike all those things are just symptom of one big matter : the way Yoshida considers the game and the customers.

And those interviews, all the time we facepalm ourself while reading the latest stupidity he said like those... it is just the proof that all other thing i did list (and other i didnt thing while typing) are just different symptom of one ill...

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Originally Posted by Alleo

And now imo they just want to stick with this system because otherwise it would look like they have made a mistake..but this will only get worse.

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One time will come the game will stagnate (not a lot new player all time) and they will add more and more wards. And so, not a need to destroy system. The matter is : it won't erase years of shittyness ! Like raubahn Xtrem in SB pre-release, i am sure they did nothing else than waiting the people go to sleep... the solution came itself (and then, pippin Xtrem did short show. and another on other patches... ...)

But for housing, during HW, (2 years with NO wards added ! ) i many time said the matters was personnal housing, and i would applause a cancellation of it. YES players/customers would be angry to not being able to use houses anymore. yes. me first, i have two account from ARR and both did get houses. But prefered loosing this, to see all player on the same line, seeing all FC getting houses. And getting improvment on appartment (doing size x3. or being abe to get different size. )

I continue, today, to find this better that what we have. I did stopped one of the houses, and would cry to loose my M houses... but would take the biggest appartment instead of. (it could be even appartment with stairs...)

The thing that bothers me is about Yoshi's stance is that role gear is designed for one and only one of the many other jobs sharing the role. Healer gear is only designed for WHM's in mind. Caster gear is only designed with BLM in mind... However SMN and RDM are now stuck wearing only BLM outfits. RDM and SMN have their own unique looks which aren't ever represented outside of the rare piece of job specific gear. There may be what? 3 actual redmage outfits in the entire game?

I don't mind keeping artifact gear/job quest gear unique to the job. But I think all other gear should be able to glam as people feel fit. It's just so frustrating not being to express my femininity because I don't want to play WHM and am stuck wearing black cowls all the time. White mages aren't the only class who likes white, skirts, and ribbons Yoshi! On the other hand, not all whitemages want those things either.

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Originally Posted by Kio

The thing that bothers me is about Yoshi's stance is that role gear is designed for one and only one of the many other jobs sharing the role. Healer gear is only designed for WHM's in mind. Caster gear is only designed with BLM in mind... However SMN and RDM are now stuck wearing only BLM outfits. RDM and SMN have their own unique looks which aren't ever represented outside of the rare piece of job specific gear. There may be what? 3 actual redmage outfits in the entire game?

I don't mind keeping artifact gear/job quest gear unique to the job. But I think all other gear should be able to glam as people feel fit. It's just so frustrating not being to express my femininity because I don't want to play WHM and am stuck wearing black cowls all the time. White mages aren't the only class who likes white, skirts, and ribbons Yoshi! On the other hand, not all whitemages want those things either.

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The starter RDM gear isn't even a real RDM outfit, it's just mildly recolored items like the Wyverskin boots of striking, pick whatever bliad and a bleh hat. The only "RDM" style is the Duelist AF3 set.

Cannot comment on SMN.

Really everything's designed around those few classes and I do hope next expac we get some more cool RDM stuff....though the Hat is irreplaceable.

White Mages are over here desperate for anything that isn't a white nightgown. That being said I imagine there are just as many people who want to keep job identity as there are people who want to glamour iconic looks from other classes. Really I don't care either way, it is what it is. I'm more concerned with stale design of the gear I'm supposed to be wearing for my class in the first place.

As for his comment about housing, he's not out of touch, he's saying if you want a house, keep up on your sub. If not, get an apartment. Fair enough. My main issue with this statement is there is not even enough housing for each player who wants one (and wants to remain subbed to maintain it) to have the opportunity.

I wish people who complain about having to stay subbed because they are bored/hate the game would just unsub already and give someone who still loves the game a chance at homeownership. SE makes the terms and we either abide by them or we disgree and take our money/time elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Bahati

I wish people who complain about having to stay subbed because they are bored/hate the game would just unsub already and give someone who still loves the game a chance at homeownership. SE makes the terms and we either abide by them or we disgree and take our money/time elsewhere.

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And the reason most don't is because they know there is virtually no chance they will obtain a house again when they return. While a friend of mine and I don't hate the game, we've both reached points where we'd like to take breaks, especially during lengthily content lulls. Her more than me. We have a large FC and a medium each. We simply won't ever get these houses again. So even if we decide to raid log, we at least know ours houses will be there when we come back.

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

"I understand that homeowners feel trapped into maintaining their subscription when they may otherwise let it lapse. I want to assure them that we don't like the demolition system either - but we have to ensure some level of turnover so new players get a chance to own a house, too. Rest assured, we're always evaluating the various systems within FFXIV, and if we have an opportunity to expand housing availability enough for everyone to own a home who wants one, we'll be discarding the demolition system right away."

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Unfortunately, this is not desirable, either. Even with infinite housing available, if folks were allowed to keep their houses no matter how long they were away from the game, pretty soon you'd wind up with whole wards consisting of one or two active players and dozens of empty, abandoned houses. Say what you like about whether or not wards are lively places, one way to ENSURE they become dead graveyards is to allow players to maintain their houses indefinitely. Of course, if we had infinite wards, the option opens up of allowing a player to RESTORE their house in a different ward, once they return to the game. Currently, that is not an option. (And, without infinite wards, I doubt it's a realistic idea.)

I have no beef with the concept of demolition. I feel it is a necessary and desirable part of the housing system. My concern is with the method SE has chosen to measure whether a house is abandoned - whether the player sets foot in it. There are many situations in which a player would LIKE to maintain their house, but be UNABLE to do so. Injury, sickness, or military deployment being some good examples. I believe that maintaining an active subscription should be the sole requirement. If a player is paying for the game, then it's reasonable to maintain their stuff. If they stop paying, then why jump through any hoops for them?

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Unfortunately, this is not desirable, either. Even with infinite housing available, if folks were allowed to keep their houses no matter how long they were away from the game, pretty soon you'd wind up with whole wards consisting of one or two active players and dozens of empty, abandoned houses. Say what you like about whether or not wards are lively places, one way to ENSURE they become dead graveyards is to allow players to maintain their houses indefinitely. Of course, if we had infinite wards, the option opens up of allowing a player to RESTORE their house in a different ward, once they return to the game. Currently, that is not an option. (And, without infinite wards, I doubt it's a realistic idea.)

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This would be one route to go down. I suppose I should clarify: a proper response would involve a promise to get rid of the current* demolition system as soon as possible. FFXIV, by Yoshi-P's own admission, is not built around continuous play, particularly for people who have dozens of hours a week to commit to a game. It stands to reason that game systems should avoid punishing people for sporadic subscription drops wherever possible.

I'd point out too, that most Wards are currently dead as-is. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of time I've seen people in my little corner of The Lavender Beds since I got my house, which was about a year and a half ago now. The current demolition system likely contributes to this issue, actually, as players who are 'effectively' not playing nevertheless maintain a subscription and house for fear of not being able to get one back upon their return.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I have no beef with the concept of demolition. I feel it is a necessary and desirable part of the housing system. My concern is with the method SE has chosen to measure whether a house is abandoned - whether the player sets foot in it. There are many situations in which a player would LIKE to maintain their house, but be UNABLE to do so. Injury, sickness, or military deployment being some good examples. I believe that maintaining an active subscription should be the sole requirement. If a player is paying for the game, then it's reasonable to maintain their stuff. If they stop paying, then why jump through any hoops for them?

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For the same reason that they maintain character levels, mount and minion lists, Mog Station items, Glamours, etc: if returning players have little incentive to resubscribe, then the game's bottom line will suffer. Speaking personally, if any life event pushes me to abandon my subscription long enough to lose my house, I'll most likely never be coming back. It is a significant in-game possession for me; in many ways *the* most significant since, unlike character levels or gear, a house sits outside the progression treadmill. It's not in SE's interest for a short-term break to turn into a permanent subscription loss.

I'm curious as to why you think demolition is desirable, by the way. I agree that it's necessary right now from a supply limitation point of view, but there are better ways of maintaining populated wards for those who want living neighborhoods (as I said above, I strongly suspect that the current demolition system actually worsens this issue). Thoughts?

Edit / Addition:

I think it's fairly privileged statement to suggest that players be able to keep their housing if they have a life event that impacts their available play time (injury, sickness, etc.), but not make allowances for players who have financial circumstances arise that force them to cancel the subscription outright for a period of time. I certainly will always be able to afford XIV personally, but I know many people for whom that's not always the case.

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

But for housing, during HW, (2 years with NO wards added ! ) i many time said the matters was personnal housing, and i would applause a cancellation of it. YES players/customers would be angry to not being able to use houses anymore. yes. me first, i have two account from ARR and both did get houses. But prefered loosing this, to see all player on the same line, seeing all FC getting houses. And getting improvment on appartment (doing size x3. or being abe to get different size. )

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I agree with a lot of your points but them taking out personal houses (and taking them away from people) would have been a catastrophe. (IMO) Heck even when they for a short amount of time introduced the new housing rules they did not take away the houses from those that owned too many.

For me they should introduce private instanced housing. With all the sizes and zones available. It would be awesome if we could buy a L house in each zone since its instanced thus people could own quite a lot of houses, while at the same time the wards still exist but instead of taking the houses away they just stop people from buying more private ones for the future and maybe give a compensation for everyone that switches their private house from wards directly to an instance. On top of that give FCs access to workshops in some city states and gardening plots in Gridania for everyone to use.

This way a FC does not need a house to get access to all the things behind it, people can all have as many big houses as housing zones exists. (Right now that would be like 4 large houses) And they would not lose it and have a huge gil sink on top of that. I would gladly give up my personal and FC house for that. But I would not give them up for something like an apartment.

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Originally Posted by Bahati

I wish people who complain about having to stay subbed because they are bored/hate the game would just unsub already and give someone who still loves the game a chance at homeownership. SE makes the terms and we either abide by them or we disgree and take our money/time elsewhere.

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I am quite sure that those that complain that the timer is bad if they want to take a break are just exactly wanting that: A break. Which means that they plan to return to the game. I mean we are not talking about a timer that is 90 days long or more, but something as short as 45 days which amounts to a bit more than one month breaks. Seeing how a patch takes at least 3 months to come out than this is way too low. Someone could have played the game for years constantly, own a house but just want to take one break between two patches. They simply cant..because that would be too long and they will lose their house that they have might used quite a lot and had planned to use it again after the break. Why would someone else deserve it more than them?

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I agree with a lot of your points but them taking out personal houses (and taking them away from people) would have been a catastrophe. (IMO) Heck even when they for a short amount of time introduced the new housing rules they did not take away the houses from those that owned too many.

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If they did it, it would be a hard decision, with a lot angry people, and even if i think it would be 1-2 week of raging on forum, it wouldnt be a so hard result on long term. And i just said "personnal houses are matter" not "forbidden to give players anything else as substitute or compensation" :p
There is as you say the instanced housing for personnal houses as idea. or working better on appartment (lets say, S like now. M = 4 time the size we have now, and L = 2 level appartment... those are example)

ALSO, they wouldnt do it ("cancel" Personnal Houses after releases it) for a reason even more silly : they did add personnal housing, knowing it would create all those matters. How i know? I think they are able to do simple mathematics (they know the activity on each servers, the population of each)
If you do a such big mistake, you dont want to go back after... Even if you have an idea to compensate...


Note : that instanced housing/appartment for CHARACTERS (not FC) would be a REAL way to get living neiborghood. i think we have too much houses for only FC now. (i think without proof, but... i dont think many servers get more than 4k activ FC... ... )
More wards = more spread of population = less living wards. But wards defined only with FC needs, it will concentrate people (a FC is generally more than 1 guy...) AND the instanced link to the same wards (like appartment we have now) could add even more people in the area. (because it will add all non-FC people in those)

So, the same thing solve 2 matters... sad to not doing it v_v"


(simple mathematics i speak : )

(they know the activity on each servers, the population of each (with inactiv character that could become activ), and the number of houses is easy to count... 540 at personnal houses release, 2160 during HW, 2880 at 4.1, 4320 today. For activity, luckybansho helps us to get an idea of how much character are activ per server... 550k activ people, 66 servers => 8.3k per server.)

About simple mathematics. we can easily count how much houses :
1080 at personnal houses release (or not sure if houses 31=>60 did existe at 2.38 or added just after but not a real difference)
2160 during HW,
2880 at 4.1,
4320 today

They know how much character, FC. they can have a quite excellent idea of the activ part.
With luckybansho scan, we can see 550k activ character (600+ on period with the 96h free login... so i am more looking on the others results)
66 servers => 8k5-9k activ character per server (activ from luckybansho : getting at least 1 more minion/mount/level in any job between 2 scan)

In reality, most japanese server are under this, and european/american server are many time over (with high spike for ragnarok/balmung and other like those) ... But easier ton consider same for all

We see that we have 1 house now for 2 activ character. and there is the FC matter then...

SO YES they did the mistake knowing it was a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Bahati

I wish people who complain about having to stay subbed because they are bored/hate the game would just unsub already and give someone who still loves the game a chance at homeownership. SE makes the terms and we either abide by them or we disgree and take our money/time elsewhere.

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The destruction is for making people paying subscription (hard to translate other way the answers in this interview... and remember they did ask the questions due to the "take a break" that Yoshida himself invite us to do ! )
AND to get a TURNOVER on houses possession.

so "stop playing with this, please, leave it a little to this other child, he wants to play with it too"
"YEAH, it is MY TURN to play with it"





But as i said : those answers, the housing, and other matters in the game are only different symptoms of one ill. If the Yoshida mentality, and his team mentality about one of the matters change to fit more to what we, players and customers, are waiting, many other thing will also change. It is my thoughts. The "ill" is, for me, they dont think enough with player's mind.

It would seem SE would rather give the opportunity to have a house to someone paying them rather than someone who is not paying them. Is this that wild of a concept considering there is not enough housing available for all?

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

This would be one route to go down. I suppose I should clarify: a proper response would involve a promise to get rid of the current* demolition system as soon as possible. FFXIV, by Yoshi-P's own admission, is not built around continuous play, particularly for people who have dozens of hours a week to commit to a game. It stands to reason that game systems should avoid punishing people for sporadic subscription drops wherever possible.

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I think you're reading way too much into Yoshi's statement. While he encourages people not to get so caught up in the game that they neglect their family, friends, or personal well-being, don't read into that that he expects players to drop their subscriptions to play other games. Take a break from the game? Sure. Take a break from their subscriptions? No MMO producer would ever encourage such a thing - at least, not as more than a propaganda stunt. Companies that provide MMOs want players to be constantly subscribed to THEIR game, not constantly flitting off to other games as the whim hits them.

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For the same reason that they maintain character levels, mount and minion lists, Mog Station items, Glamours, etc: if returning players have little incentive to resubscribe, then the game's bottom line will suffer. Speaking personally, if any life event pushes me to abandon my subscription long enough to lose my house, I'll most likely never be coming back. It is a significant in-game possession for me; in many ways *the* most significant since, unlike character levels or gear, a house sits outside the progression treadmill. It's not in SE's interest for a short-term break to turn into a permanent subscription loss.

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Character data is inactive data. It can be stored on a dusty spool of magnetic tape for decades at low cost and no inconvenience to other players. Housing is a horse of an entirely different color, for as long as it remains a limited resource.

As for your claim that you'd not return to the game if you lost your house - well, it sounds like you have a very loose attachment to this game. I've seen many in the forums complain about losing their house upon returning to the game - but none claimed to have thrown up their hands and quit because of it. They all decided the game was worth playing, even with the loss of their house. In all likelihood, returning players who use the status of their house as a deciding factor are a lesser population than players who get frustrated because there's no housing available and quit for that reason.

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I'm curious as to why you think demolition is desirable, by the way. I agree that it's necessary right now from a supply limitation point of view, but there are better ways of maintaining populated wards for those who want living neighborhoods (as I said above, I strongly suspect that the current demolition system actually worsens this issue). Thoughts?

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I take the opposite view. By making housing a volatile resource that requires care and maintenance, it discourages people who might buy a house simply because buying a house is something they can do. The folks who buy a house are those who actually care about the house, and will therefore be more likely to visit it, keep it up with furnishings, and so on and so forth. They will actually visit the thing from time to time, and in so doing will help keep the neighborhood lively.

As for better ways than demolition to clear out dead houses, what do you propose? Should neglected houses be shuffled around to other districts periodically? This would be functionally similar to my idea of reinstating housing when a player returns to the game - and is just as dependent on having unlimited wards to shuffle houses to...

At the end of the day if people want to hold themselves hostage to ensure that they don't lose their in-game house then that is, ultimately, on them. The ideal solution would be for everybody to have access to player housing - which could be done in a number of different ways. Perhaps the most efficient method would be to expand the size and functionality of apartments.

Until that happens the demolition function is a necessary evil. To be honest, I think there's a lot of people who don't even use their house very often and simply keep a hold of it for the sake of bragging rights. When I owned a house in-game I never saw my neighbours...nor did I ever see them shift their decorations around to suggest that they were actively using it and adding new furnishings that happened to take their fancy. I'd take a peek every now and then to check out of curiosity. Obviously they were entering their house to prevent the timer from expiring, though they didn't seem to actual do much with the place beyond that.

the fun fact.
You can keep your house if you sub 6 month a year.
And a people subbing 10 month a row and do a break for 2 month... is fucked up...



But i think most pro demo-system are against getting instanced personnal housing...


Fun when most other MMORPG get "housing for all" and FFXIV, with all the players cant... really fun... Even more fun when you see it doesnt bother yoshida at all.
he even thinks it is what makes FFXIV better than other MMORPGs
https://old.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._and_soken_at/

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I think that in order to prevent other MMOs from catching up, we should flesh out what it means to "live" in the world of FFXIV with things that only FFXIV can do, like Perform and the housing roleplay stuff.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I think you're reading way too much into Yoshi's statement. While he encourages people not to get so caught up in the game that they neglect their family, friends, or personal well-being, don't read into that that he expects players to drop their subscriptions to play other games. Take a break from the game? Sure. Take a break from their subscriptions? No MMO producer would ever encourage such a thing - at least, not as more than a propaganda stunt. Companies that provide MMOs want players to be constantly subscribed to THEIR game, not constantly flitting off to other games as the whim hits them.

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This is certainly possible. However, if this is the case, SE is flatly not earning my subscription. The content design for FFXIV isn't deep enough to occupy the roughly 30 hours of play time per week that I have available to me - nowhere close. XIV's content aims to provide something of interest to everyone in a broad audience, which naturally means they don't tend to provide a lot of interest to any particular group. I've always interpreted Yoshi-P's statements on this matter within this context, which imply to me that he's aware people will likely take breaks, and aims to generally make this painless for players (if not something he'd recommend).

Incidentally, XIV's lengthy efforts to ensure players can readily catch up to the current content cycle also provide evidence that they're aware players will likely take breaks. So whether or not Yoshi-P was recommending subscription breaks from time to time, I think he's aware they're inevitable, and housing is the one area in which SE imposes significant penalties on players for doing so. It stands to reason a long-term goal should be to eliminate this anomaly.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Character data is inactive data. It can be stored on a dusty spool of magnetic tape for decades at low cost and no inconvenience to other players. Housing is a horse of an entirely different color, for as long as it remains a limited resource.

As for your claim that you'd not return to the game if you lost your house - well, it sounds like you have a very loose attachment to this game. I've seen many in the forums complain about losing their house upon returning to the game - but none claimed to have thrown up their hands and quit because of it. They all decided the game was worth playing, even with the loss of their house. In all likelihood, returning players who use the status of their house as a deciding factor are a lesser population than players who get frustrated because there's no housing available and quit for that reason.

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Character data isn't exactly inactive. At any time, someone can choose to resubscribe and be accessing that data within five minutes. It's very much stored in a ready state. It's really not so different. I agree that it being a limited resource imposes a different set of considerations for now: my point was that SE should have a long-term goal of eliminating this resource limitation.

As for the other, I'm sure you're right for some. I do wonder how long those returning players stick around though, particularly if they can't find a new house to purchase. In any event, I can only speak definitively on my own perspective.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I take the opposite view. By making housing a volatile resource that requires care and maintenance, it discourages people who might buy a house simply because buying a house is something they can do. The folks who buy a house are those who actually care about the house, and will therefore be more likely to visit it, keep it up with furnishings, and so on and so forth. They will actually visit the thing from time to time, and in so doing will help keep the neighborhood lively.

As for better ways than demolition to clear out dead houses, what do you propose? Should neglected houses be shuffled around to other districts periodically? This would be functionally similar to my idea of reinstating housing when a player returns to the game - and is just as dependent on having unlimited wards to shuffle houses to...

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Firstly, I think the volatility argument is a little bit unrealistic. I'd agree if there were multiple meaningful Gil sinks in XIV, but I know for myself, the first house I bought was sort of a 'why not' decision. I similarly snagged a large for my small friends-only FC as a 'why not' decision. I had enough Gil, I couldn't see that there would ever be a use for it, and so I snatched up property. If, on the other hand, there were a half-dozen other solid uses for my money, I'd have only purchased housing if I really prioritized housing over everything else - thereby lending weight to your volatility argument. I honestly didn't consider the subscription implications at the time of purchase, because I wasn't bored at that point in my XIV career. It's only now that the house is an integral part of my in-game experience, an experience I want a break from, that I'm chafing.

As for better approaches to neighborhoods, I think the key is an opt-in system. SE built the housing system without regard to player preference, and I think that's why the idea of neighborhoods fell apart. One player might just like interior decorating, but nevertheless is a hermit; another might just want convenient merchants; a third might want access to the FC Workshop or advanced actions. No matter what systems SE imposes - demolition, monthly rents, what have you - the neighborhood feeling was doomed the split-second SE implemented a system that forced neighborhood types together with hermits who just wanted a house.

For neighborhoods to truly work, I think SE must make it voluntary, a choice that does not offer extra supplies of housing or other benefits. These neighborhoods should actually carry with them mechanisms to ensure turnover of people who are not fully adhering to the neighborhood goal (demo system for inactivity; maybe monthly rents in Gil). I'd suggest they also block out the ability to restrict access to your house's interior areas, so as to foster more of an open feel. Anyone welcoming the idea of a neighborhood can elect to purchase (or move) their house into this system as availability arises.

Moreover, had SE designed this system in a more intelligent and forward-thinking fashion, these neighborhoods would have been the only wards. All other housing would have been individual private instances. 'Demolition' in a neighborhood sense would simply relegate you back to an individual instance. Nobody seeking a relatively private house would be forced to participate, and turnover would be ensured to limit the number of inactive players at any given time. Even at this late stage, however, the introduction of instanced housing coupled with new, harsher requirements on staying in the Wards would quickly improve the neighborhood feel. Couple that with some structured game events at peak evening hours within the neighborhoods, and I think we'd have a remarkable setup that punishes nobody while ensuring a truly social housing system for the vast majority who want it.

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Originally Posted by Bahati

It would seem SE would rather give the opportunity to have a house to someone paying them rather than someone who is not paying them. Is this that wild of a concept considering there is not enough housing available for all?

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It's a bit of a wild concept, and not a pleasant one. MMOs have long implemented various bonuses as carrots to encourage players to stay subscribed (content updates, consecutive subscription bonuses, discounts for larger chunks of subscription time purchased, etc.), but I've never seen one use a stick. Certainly it's SE's decision if they want to try this, but I know if at any point I discovered it was an intentional decision rather than the artifact of a bone-headed development choice some years ago, I'd quit on general principle, and likely never buy another SE MMO again. I expect entertainment companies to compete to earn my dollar, rather than threaten punishments of a sort if I don't continue to buy into their ecosystem.

"I think that in order to prevent other MMOs from catching up, we should flesh out what it means to "live" in the world of FFXIV with things that only FFXIV can do, like Perform and the housing roleplay stuff. "

Um.... Has he SEEN Lord of the Rings Online? While not too popular is has a music system that is pretty amazing. If anyone wants an idea, look on youtube for something called Weatherstock. It's a HUGE musical event that players put on in the game every year. Compared to that Perform is rather simple.

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Originally Posted by Amariel34

"I think that in order to prevent other MMOs from catching up, we should flesh out what it means to "live" in the world of FFXIV with things that only FFXIV can do, like Perform and the housing roleplay stuff. "

Um.... Has he SEEN Lord of the Rings Online? While not too popular is has a music system that is pretty amazing. If anyone wants an idea, look on youtube for something called Weatherstock. It's a HUGE musical event that players put on in the game every year. Compared to that Perform is rather simple.

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GW2 has a very similar system to XIV as well. And then there is Archeage. That game uses an MML system, so you're not exactly playing "live", but it's a lot of fun. Spent many nights performing songs with my small group of people.

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

If they did it, it would be a hard decision, with a lot angry people, and even if i think it would be 1-2 week of raging on forum, it wouldnt be a so hard result on long term. And i just said "personnal houses are matter" not "forbidden to give players anything else as substitute or compensation" :p

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I am quite sure that taking away personal houses without something else for it (like instanced personal houses) would create more fire than just a bit of 1-2 week raging. Remember how the forum was on fire when Shirogane started and people were not able to get plots for different reasons? How other sites talked about this and how they even gave us much more wards (thus houses) afterwards? That was not a small fire and they needed to react to that. Now I cant see how taking away someones house because SE made a mistake by creating a bad system would be good. Honestly it feels like the majority of the houses are privates ones thus a huge amount of people would lose their house. That would be such a huge PR disaster and who knows how many people would simply stop their sub. If they did that and force people out of it I would probably also stop playing because I would feel that this would not be respectful at all. Thats why I pointed out that any change should have good instanced housing before that and be a choice that people can make. (Some do enjoy the ward system for their personal houses)

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Originally Posted by Bahati

It would seem SE would rather give the opportunity to have a house to someone paying them rather than someone who is not paying them. Is this that wild of a concept considering there is not enough housing available for all?

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So someone that has played the game for years and takes one longer break is less important than maybe a person that plays it for a couple of months and get a house but might also stop after a time? Or what about those that do pay but cant log in for certain reasons? I mean if its only about paying then people could at least still buy a sub and not lose it but you have to be in the game on your plot on top of that. And there are cases that would lose their house even if they are paying for it..