Can we talk about the elephant in the room - Permanent Bans from the Official Forums

My bans have come from critiquing the development team. Even when that criticism is written in a professional and constructive manner. If you dare to question whether certain people actually play their own game or just say you don't understand why they did something because it makes zero sense to the average player and explain why you think that. Banned.

I think I have only been banned from something I said to another player once overall (here of course) and I am active on many forums. But I think they either thought it was a troll since you cannot hear 'how' I am saying it (I thought I was being obviously just silly and funny) or they were just very very fragile as I try never to dip into anything that could be construed as offensive. I firmly believe there isn't as much trolling as people think but since you cannot hear tones or see body language its easy to take things as such. Every time I get responses that seem 'mean' or are not obvious trolls, fanboys or salt I take a step back and question what was said before I reply.

I have learned not to criticize the devs on here or question any choices they make. The forum moderators seem to have very little tolerance for having the choices of the dev team questioned. And I seldom try to be funny or friendly here, or even in-game anymore, since some can have a skin so thin its translucent. Funny thing is this game seems to have the more fragile playerbase overall or people who just take advantage of a very strict code on conduct. I don't have this issue in ESO or GW2. Sometimes you just feel like your walking on eggshells here moreso than other games.

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Originally Posted by kamenkuro

the only downside is being unable to report bugs on the forums,

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Some bugs may be exploited hard, if released to the public, just think at something like "item dupe" bugs, the nightmare of a game. It is a good thing you can report them privately in game.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Some bugs may be exploited hard, if released to the public, just think at something like "item dupe" bugs, the nightmare of a game. It is a good thing you can report them privately in game.

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To be honest, when bug exploits are public the folks using them get suspended pretty swiftly. The thing is that it's when it shows up on bigger places like Twitter or Reddit that they take notice and do something. It's like no one looks at this place, or only use it for updates and liveletters.

I honestly think making the forum a part of the game would work in their favor. Although that would mean they'd need to police that very hard or the sheer force of the entire playerbase could overwhelm them.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

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Thank you for sharing. There's one other thing I wanted to bring up but I haven't gotten confirmation on it. I've heard from someone who was banned from Lodestone that they are no long treating lodestone/forums and game penalty as separate things. That a strike on the forums could count towards your record in game as well.

I haven't asked a GM myself so I don't know about that for a fact but it might be something to keep in mind.

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Originally Posted by kamenkuro

To be honest, this place is a small part of the community. Most players go elsewhere to discuss the game. While bans are frustrating, the loss of being able to talk here is not major. I can only say the only downside is being unable to report bugs on the forums, but you can do that in game too.

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As I said in my other post, the major is you can't participate in any forum activities.

People can try and defend how the ban system works and say "Well then don't say this."
Look at the Reddit posts in OP's link. There's A LOT of things you "can't say".
So here you have us praying each post doesn't hurt someones feelings.
I think someone at one point was actually BANNED because of something they quoted which contains some...words.
(Was that Selli?) It literally can be anything. It's probably because people are too sensitive on the forums.
AFAIK, the only way mods even do anything is if a good amount people report the same comment.
I reported someone once, but on different posts and he was still here. It's a group effort there.

Being banned from the forums also mean unable to submit questions for live letter, unable to vote, unable to participate in community events, unable to leave game feedback in a place where devs kinda-sorta will read it.

As someone who browses it regularly, the FFXIV subreddit is home to some of the most joyless and fun-hating players who take this game and everything to do with it way too seriously, more so than any other video game sub on the site, which is probably a result of it being a haven for people who got banned from here.
While I don't doubt some people got banned unjustifiably, I think there's a pretty significant number of players who should probably stay as they are for a while longer.

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Originally Posted by Hakuro89

Something that's almost hilariously hypocritical is that many have been banned for using the same language used by NPCs IN THE GAME.

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While I agree that SE's forum mod team can suspend for rather tame words, I wouldn't say this argument really holds much water. The game also includes murder of many people, mindless slaughtering of fauna, prostitution, etc - I don't think anyone is ready to say that these things should be acceptable in the real world since we do it in game.

But yeah, as Jojoya stated above, this is SE's forum, they get to set the rules. Since we all choose to post here, that is our acceptance to play by their rules.

Also, GenoReaper - I'm pretty sure I know the poster/comments you're referring to, and he was absolutely unreal, but yeah, unfortunately the comment crossed the line (deserved or not).

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Originally Posted by Ameela

some of the most joyless and fun-hating players who take this game and everything to do with it way too seriously,

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To be fair your definition of fun and others could be, and likely are, vastly different.

You may find the simplicity of the combat or the handout of reward and the lack of effort needed fun, where as I do not. You may find the kawaii elements they add as cute and fun where as I find them seethingly horrible. Its not about taking things seriously or not, its just different definitions of fun. I get called a joyless hack too because I find lala horrible creatures that need extermination, male bunny suits as facepalminglu stupid and the cutesy things added or cross over events as out of place or taking away from the game. While to me they are not fun, to you they are. That does not mean we are soul sucking, joyless, fun-hating players. Its just that my fun and your fun are 2 separate things. And when SE sets up certain expectations in the game, like coil or the msq then throws in something like Yokia Watch, its jarring to me where it may be fun to you.

It's all about personal taste. But I am no more a joy kill than you are likely a kawaii obsessed weeabo. These assumptions are where many of the forum problems lie.

I have never liked the idea of a permanent ban with no appeal process.

Especially when there's a lot of stories saying people don't know why they were banned, or they were temporarily banned for something and then before that ban expired it escalated to permanent. At the very least SE should improve their communication with their customers.

I received a temporary ban once for talking about the horrendous wait times in Feast (in a post made by a community moderator). I think it was a misunderstanding, because I wasn't referencing THEM being the cause of the wait time...just that Feast has really....really.....really long waits sometimes... irrespective of who you are.

In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have made that post on a community moderator-created event announcement... but it was unlocked so I thought maybe it was open for comments. Oops! (and for the one who issued the ban, maybe thinking it was a slight toward them...I promise it wasn't...and I hope we can see each other in the Feast arena one day! I will totally PVP with you all any time!)

Greetings, everyone!

I understand that the process for appealing an account action is somewhat vague, and this is something that we are certainly working on improving. However, there are currently 2 options for appealing any account action:

1. Contact a GM in game to explain why you feel the account action is unjustified.
2. Contact the Support Center (NA)/Support Center (EU) to explain why you feel the account action is unjustified.

These requests are escalated along with the additional information you provide to ensure the account action was issued correctly. As a general rule of thumb, however, account actions will only be reviewed once unless there is determined to be some sort of exceptional circumstance.

As I mentioned before, we are working on improving this process to make it more streamlined for customers.

LGM Enkrateia

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Greetings, everyone!

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Thanks for being brave enough to pop into this hornets nest btw, kudos for that <3

If you're open to a question here, I'd like to put forward the following:

It's interesting to note that Dervy's ban was mentioned above, I've actually been helping him get back into the swing of things and got his first O8S kill only the other day. His case is a good example to highlight where perhaps the moderation team aren't making the best decisions for the good of the community?

Now if you ask me, his first ban was pretty harsh whilst the second was positively trite in a manner that goes against the spirit of a forum. Now this isn't me asking you to reverse Dervy's ban. I suspect that bridge is long burned from both ends now. I'll also add that I didn't have too much trouble getting in contact over my ban either so that's not a concern of mine either.

Rather, I'm more interested in any efforts towards ensuring more balanced, reasonable and consistent moderation towards this forum's users. Needless hate and flaming is unproductive and I'm glad when that gets stopped in it's tracks. However, it often feels like we are walking a tight rope on so many occasions due to the vague enforcement of various aspects of the rules and ToS.

Simply offering requested advice to another player or clarifying details can feel like we are playing Russian roulette with our account rights and that's just wrong when we are actively contributing to the community here.

Perhaps it's time to consider a disclaimered subsection of the board where talk of parsers and such is allowed. This would have the bonus side effect of bringing much of the raid scene back under SE's umbrella whilst also making it easier for the community team to jump on potential sagas such as Ungarmax?

Once again, thanks <3

I got a temp ban for saying a players "attitude may have been $#!tty" in context of someone being a jerk but not doing anything against the TOS.... then later in the same thread there was an f-bomb just sitting pretty.... no ban for the fbomb... just a ban for saying $#!tty

I too have had my main account banned from the forums, this is my son's account.I got banned really early in 2.0 for defending the game against the onslaught of overly aggressive and prolific posters. I'm no saint by any means but I know I was reported by certain individuals who disliked what I had to say. One instance was in the SSM insanity, I defended the inclusion of SSM because it really doesnt matter what the in game sex is or what people do outside the game. That was many years ago... I'm still here, still playing, and still posting just not all under a single account. I can even recall a few specific names (that I will leave out) with whom we became nemesis' of sorts. Only difference is I didnt report their terrible behavior but they had friends who reported me. There is really no oversight in the banning process, no communication with the Ban-ee, (I honestly dont know what i was banned for but I can kinda guess) and no way to redeem yourself, let alone discuss what happened or even apologize to the offended parties and make amends. It would be nice if there was a statute of limitations around their banning process and it wasnt what feels like a blind auto-ban based on the number of reports.

I apologized on support system a long time ago and it didn't do anything.
I got some weird ass generic reply...
I even contacted a legit SE support. He was really kind and understanding.
I told him what happened, apologized, and he said that I can contact
the Forum Mods. Little did he know, we're all 100% blocked...as soon as you log in
you get the "Something, something... Ban Lift: Never." He was surprised to the fact
that I couldn't even contact anyone, point blank period. Barring us from actual forum mods
is downright silly. I wish we could at least still log in our mains to "Like" or contact forums mods.

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Greetings, everyone!

I understand that the process for appealing an account action is somewhat vague, and this is something that we are certainly working on improving. However, there are currently 2 options for appealing any account action:

1. Contact a GM in game to explain why you feel the account action is unjustified.
2. Contact the Support Center (NA)/Support Center (EU) to explain why you feel the account action is unjustified.

These requests are escalated along with the additional information you provide to ensure the account action was issued correctly. As a general rule of thumb, however, account actions will only be reviewed once unless there is determined to be some sort of exceptional circumstance.

As I mentioned before, we are working on improving this process to make it more streamlined for customers.

LGM Enkrateia

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Edit: I have tried this already. We cannot talk to you, or anyone else because of the ban.
The SE support on site have nothing to do with the forums, so we're screwed because we can't
contact you or other mods...I hope this post was directed to forum bans and not in-game bans.
Are the GM's in game the same Forum Mods?

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

I hope this post was directed to forum bans and not in-game bans.

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Greetings, Mikhaill.

I can understand how my post was not specific about this point. I considered trying to fit in the clarification, but it felt awkward when I tried to add it to my original post. However, to answer your inquiry, the methods I noted in my post are for any type of account action. So it could be used to request a review for account actions against a game service, forum access, or any action against the Square Enix Account itself. That is why I included multiple points of contact, so that customers who could not access the game could also request a review.

I hope this clarifies it a bit.

LGM Enkrateia

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Originally Posted by Rockette

I've heard from someone who was banned from Lodestone that they are no long treating lodestone/forums and game penalty as separate things. That a strike on the forums could count towards your record in game as well.

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When I got my 10 day ban last year for being passive-aggressive towards a forum troll the email they sent me said this:

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Originally Posted by Square Enix

Please be aware that during the suspension, we will review the case and determine if you are eligible to access the forums in the future. Depending on the situation, we may decide to take further action by terminating your access to the FINAL FANTASY XI Forum and/or FINAL FANTASY XIV Forum.

Further violations made on the forum against the Square Enix Account Terms of Use, the FINAL FANTASY XIV User Agreement, or the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines, may result in forum access rights being revoked, and the temporary, or permanent, suspension of access to your Square Enix account. This would mean losing access to both the forum and to FINAL FANTASY XIV itself, so please take sufficient care before posting.

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So yes, it appears so.

I got a two week suspension for telling an admitted votekick abuser that I hoped they would get kicked from every party, almost word for word.

First time offense reason for suspension: Aggressive posting

lol?

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Originally Posted by NolLacnala

I got a two week suspension for telling an admitted votekick abuser that I hoped they would get kicked from every party, almost word for word.

First time offense reason for suspension: Aggressive posting

lol?

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How can someone abuse a vote kick if one difference of play style is a valid reason to kick someone, and two it takes a majority for a kick to go through? Just wondering.

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Originally Posted by Rogatum

How can someone abuse a vote kick if one difference of play style is a valid reason to kick someone, and two it takes a majority for a kick to go through? Just wondering.

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I imagine they queued with friends.

As I understand, the forums moderation is contracted out to a company which follows the letter of the law for any policy that SE sets. They also tend to follow a zero tolerance policy when it comes to any form of harassment, perceived or otherwise. This is done because if SE isn't heavy handed and something goes wrong, they can be sued for a titanic amount of money in most courts and they would loose.

With all of that said, I would love to see a formal path for redemption but I doubt we will see it. The outsourcing is why the game GMs are unable do anything about bans, they don't control the forums. The only person in SE who has ever dealt with a ban reversal was Yoshi himself and I don't know if that was ever reversed.

Best advice I can give anybody on the forums is don't say anything you wouldn't want posted on the front page of the New York Times and if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

Are the GM's in game the same Forum Mods?

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Yes, Enkrateia's answered that GMs in-game also moderate the forums.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Best advice I can give anybody on the forums is don't say anything you wouldn't want posted on the front page of the New York Times and if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

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https://earthfirstnews.files.wordpre...lice-state.jpg

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Originally Posted by ExKage

Yes, Enkrateia's answered that GMs in-game also moderate the forums.

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There might be a chance to upheave the bans then.
Has anyone tried to contact them in-game?

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

There might be a chance to upheave the bans then.
Has anyone tried to contact them in-game?

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They escalate it, "look into it," then cookie cutter answer. A rep once apologized to Rawrz because he felt his temporary ban was unjustified, but there was nothing he could do but escalate it once. Same zero thought answer.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

A bunch of guide writers got perma'd towards the start of HW for including videos/images in their guides with parsers in the background.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

VanilleFang was banned for a joke thread. They posted an incredibly small portion of their own fflogs page in a screenshot - literally just their 100% run as a WHM on the last boss in Rabanastre. The caption was something like "look what Holy did!" and that was it. It was a cute lol and a nice thing to congratulate.

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lol what? What happened to "We can't accept any evidence except in-game logs. Photos and videos can be edited."?

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Originally Posted by Beckett

Words of the English Variety.

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I've had a post stealth removed for containing profanity once. And you know what? I was quoting a post using that exact phrase but they left their post, not mine. They don't even read the full posts.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

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The rules have been the same as they have always been since 1.0. Action being taken is going to be entirely dependent on a moderator seeing it/being reported.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...la=1&tag=forum

"Use of inappropriate or aggressive language."

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

"Use of inappropriate or aggressive language."

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Then what about those threating to eat lalas ? isn't that aggressive ? ^^"

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Originally Posted by Celef

Then what about those threating to eat lalas ? isn't that aggressive ? ^^"

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Potatoes are for eating.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

frontpage of r/ffxiv any day of the week:
____ need buffs
look at this artwork I commissioned of my catgirl
look at this screenshot of a thing everyone has seen 10+ times since the expansion
look at how I decorated my house
look at this artwork I commissioned of my lizardgirl
look at my bad tattoo
fashion report hints or answers
2 or so interviews
I got a __ that was bad in my roulette! Is this normal?
hi im new to mmos is this mmo new people friendly? :)

I agree there should be some sort of appeal process if you were banned for something dumb or banned a looooong time ago but lets not pretend anything deep and meaningful is going down on reddit lol

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Never really liked r/ffxiv or anything on reddit in general for what you listed. I went on there now as of this post and it's nearly identical.
Plus nearly everyone always sounds like a dad gamer, there isn't really anywhere great to talk about FFXIV aside from in the game itself.

I do wish they had a clearer appeals process. Like, I had no idea that you could go to a GM to get an explanation of why you were temporarily banned. If that were the case, I absolutely would've done it and explained that what I said was in no way meant as a slight -- not by any stretch of the imagination. The PVP forum can get pretty brutal, so I can see why they'd take it that way, though. They should probably include the appeals process in the email that tells you why the corrective action was applied. At least that way you feel like you have some kind of recourse (even if nothing comes of it...or you were clearly in the wrong).

This forum is it's own worse enemy. No notable info to be found because everyone with said info is banned and nonody seriously comes here looking for info reflecting in low use. Personally, I'm just here for the outlandish outrage and ridiculous rwquests only known to this community.

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

Has anyone tried to contact them in-game?

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My girlfriend has tried a handful of times to talk to the GMs in-game.

The most common response was along the lines of "the forum team and the in-game team are different and in-game team doesn't handle forum affairs. Try contacting customer support via e-mail." Every e-mail she received was a copy-and-paste response, most of them telling her to contact a GM in-game..who would tell her to send an e-mail. She did get one copy-and-paste response that told her to post her concerns on the forums though, lol.

She did have one in-game GM who really listened to her (I think this was her 5th or so trying to contact them in-game about it). They said they'd forward her request and also include their own feedback about how she was remorseful about her actions. They said she'd get a reply within a few weeks if they did appeal her ban, but if not she probably wouldn't get a response. That was over a year ago. Personally I would have liked to know even if it was denied, just to know that the request actually looked at and considered.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Then what about those threating to eat lalas ? isn't that aggressive ? ^^"

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Technically it is and should be reported, but there are so many of them that no one has the time for that.

Something I forgot to mention

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Greetings, everyone!

I understand that the process for appealing an account action is somewhat vague, and this is something that we are certainly working on improving. However, there are currently 2 options for appealing any account action:

1. Contact a GM in game to explain why you feel the account action is unjustified.
2. Contact the Support Center (NA)/Support Center (EU) to explain why you feel the account action is unjustified.

These requests are escalated along with the additional information you provide to ensure the account action was issued correctly. As a general rule of thumb, however, account actions will only be reviewed once unless there is determined to be some sort of exceptional circumstance.

As I mentioned before, we are working on improving this process to make it more streamlined for customers.

LGM Enkrateia

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The problem here is that many bans are issued "correctly", as the post is breaking a rule, but I use quotation marks there because the rule being broken is that the player said sh*t, f**k or any other mild word that wasn't even directed at someone else, which is a silly reason to suspend someone. The core issue in this thread is the disproportionate moderation with very mild offenses, so upon contacting a GM the only response would be that a rule was broken and the ban was justified.

Another thing is SE policy of escalating bans, which makes no sense, 2 small infractions suddenly puts someone in the same category as someone spamming gore images or something like that. Everyone has bad days, and in 2-5 years its not unreasonable to have more than one bad day, a slap on the wrist shouldn't escalate into a punch because they got a slap on the wrist 3 years ago.

There definitely needs to be some changes here. In the past I’ve had people vilify me and disrespect me over the most innocent of post but nothing was done because I chose to fight my own battles( and was suspended) over running to a mod. One thing I’m curious of, with all the questions that SE pulls from here for Q and A’s, has anyone ever submitted a question regarding this topic to one of them?

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Originally Posted by Warghoul570

There definitely needs to be some changes here. In the past I’ve had people vilify me and disrespect me over the most innocent of post but nothing was done because I chose to fight my own battles( and was suspended) over running to a mod. One thing I’m curious of, with all the questions that SE pulls from here for Q and A’s, has anyone ever submitted a question regarding this topic to one of them?

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You really have to pick what's most important with those Q and A's. You see some of the most wanted questions go unresponsive or a "Wait and see" type thing.
This isn't "as" serious as other important questions on there and most of the people who got banned simply move onto discord or reddit for sources
and just go on about our day. I personally prefer the OF but with stepping on toes so gently gets you ban, I come and go a lot.

I think it is and I commend that one guy who at a Q and A asked to get his account unbanned directly to YP himself. I will ALWAYS have respect for that guy. GOOD FOR YOU GUY! I approve taking all issues right to the boss.