Locking lvl 370 items behind savage content IS ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

If you are unable to clear O5S due to enrage you are not getting the full value out of your existing item set. OP to me you sound like a spoiled brat who wants something new while he already has decent toys. I promise you, you can earn much more dps from decent play than gear.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

It's not about whether you NEED the best stuff in the game to be able to do stuff; people still WANT to get stronger anyway and since at level 70 there's no way to build your experience level directly through combat any further, the emphasis then goes to equipment.

How many of you have gone out of your way to get the best equipment available in an offline RPG and make your party as strong as the limits of the game will allow, even though it was very often not needed to be able to beat the hardest challenges in the game? Willing to bet a whole bunch of you have. Same idea here.

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You know, I actually do understand that - I even kinda share that sentiment. Everyone wants to get as strong as possible, no surprise here.
But I still believe that the argument "You dont need 370 gear" is legit in this context for a simple reason: The gear is, in theory, available to everyone. Raiding is (thank the twelve!) not like housing, so not a limited ressource. Everyone can get their loot out of Savage every week - if they manage to beat it, obviously.

If we stick with your analogy of a singleplayer RPG and gearing up our party there: How do you do that when it comes to the strongest gear?
I recall FFIV where I went through the Cave of Trials and the Lunar Subterrane multiple times (even with characters I didnt plan on using) to get all weapons. Both are endgame dungeons with endgame bosses at the end (and the requirement to potential use weak characters like a certain bard). It was a challenge, it required effort but in the end my whole party was fully geared.
Same with my experience of FFX - I honestly dont even want to know how many hours I spend on that stupid chocobo race! Or how long I made my brother do the dodge-the-lightning minigame. Or how many blitzball-matches I played... not even talking about fighting the Dark Yojinbo over and over again to get gear for everyone.
So yeah, I totally get that we all want the best gear even though we might not need it to beat the game.

But here is the thing: I also understand that getting the best gear comes at a price. And that price is a challenge. But its a challenge you can walk away from if you want - the rest of the game is still open to you. That is what I mean by "you dont need this gear". Not having it isnt blocking you from anything - if you want it though, you can get it. If you're only willing to put in the effort (or wait).

Back to singleplayer RPGs: OPs posts feels a bit like asking for the Ultimate Weapons for each character being sold by a vendor in the first city.

You will be able to upgrade your tome gear with patch 4.3 in two ways:

- hunts
- the new 24 man instance

Before this Patch upgrading will be limited to savage clears.

Outside of the next Ultimate there is no need at all for that high gear. Even Savage got cleared in i350 within the first week after release. I see no reason to change the current system.

as said, 370 ilvl will be avaible "for all" at 4.3
FFXIV works on a 6 month circle =>
T = 0 => max ilvl grew with 30 more. new story mode raid gives 10 more ilvl than previous top stuff, memoquartz 20 more, and savage 30 more.
T = 3 month => raid 24 added, with the same ilvl than memoquartz, and item to upgrade memoquartz item
T = 6 month => new tier raid, cf T=0


It is a catch up system. more serious players gets reward first, and then, all others can get it, and finally, everyone return to 0.

You say "every MMORPG allow other way to farm stuff"? Nope. For blade and soul, you need to do the highest PvE content to get part of your BiS. it is easy content, but have to do it. And then, lets go to the one many knows, WoW, the insignia (memoquartz system) disapeared. and never allowed to get the max ilvl stuff which always was in the highest difficulty raid. (now, there is a system to get best ilvl without going hardest raid, but need so much luck, and many people are complaining.



SO... because you want "everyone to be able to get best stuff" FFXIV is one of the best game for this criteria.
MOVE your ass if you want to show everyone how much your stuff is powerfull!


BTW. Omega rewards ilvl370, to help you for later (the next tier and ultimate at T=3 month) Stuff is an esthetic reward, but also a tool to go higher. if you dont want to focus on omega take the reward, why complain about stuff? ...

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that the whole "you don't NEED savage gear anyway if you're not doing savage" argument is garbage, because everyone wants to get stronger gear whether or not they're playing the hardest content, so that serves to placate nobody.

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Unless they've already gotten mendacity everything, they are getting stronger, though. This is less about "getting stronger" and more "someone got a thing I can't get until the next patch!"

People have cleared Savage in ilv 340 gear though which is the minimum to get in, myself i am a little over ilv350 on Nin and our first few runs we made it to around 20% (and we had some pugs also)
Also the Eureka gear while yes only ilv 350 it has many slots to meld materia

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Originally Posted by Vidu

But here is the thing: I also understand that getting the best gear comes at a price. And that price is a challenge.

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Which is kinda backwards in concept.

Fact is that better gear improves your output at any given skill level and vice versa.
That means that the worse you are, the better gear you need for a given challenge and vice versa.
Rewarding better gear from more challenging content thus means that those who need the gear the most are the least likely to get it.

If things went by Need, the reward scheme would go the other way - Some people even need gear from the next expansion to beat a challenge of the given expansion (alias Unsync). As such, Need isn't really a factor to consider, nor an argument worth bringing up in these debates.
The entire thing stems from the idea that more effort should be better rewarded (which is a generally accepted notion), coupled with the fact that gear is the standard reward in RPGs (and often the fallacy of equating skill and effort). The current reward scheme is largely a token of acknowledgement.

As for the OP, well... I have to agree with other posters: It's really no big deal. We got a vertical progression model with planned obsolence, everyone will have access to i370 gear soon enough. There's not much point to get bent out of shape over stats and even the glam is going to be available with relative ease eventually.

Well I may sound like an elitist but I stand by what I said you don't NEED it nor do you deserve it if you haven't even put in the work...you want to get stronger do harder content point blank....if you're not raiding than unfortunately you will have to wait for the next 24man to upgrade your gear.

And the raiders do need it becuase there will be another ultimate and it's usually the top ilvl requirement....

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I'm not trying to defend the topic here or anything, but:

People really need to stop bringing this up (the statement that you don’t need i370 for any content in the game) as an argument.

It's not about whether you NEED the best stuff in the game to be able to do stuff; people still WANT to get stronger anyway and since at level 70 there's no way to build your experience level directly through combat any further, the emphasis then goes to equipment.

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It’s fine if people want to progress their character from i350 to i360 to i370, but they better be willing to put in the proper work for it. As it stands now, the only way to get i370 is by completing Sigmascape Savage. If the OP is unable or unwilling to do that, then they can wait for Patch 4.3 where they can obtain upgrade items for i370 Mendacity gear via the new Alliance Raid or Hunts.

Put in the work and effort if you want better gear early. Since they gave up after 4 tries of V5S—which, in my opinion, is actually more difficult than V6S but not as difficult as V7S—it tells me that they may WANT the gear, but they don’t want to put in the EFFORT to obtain it during the current patch. In that case, they need to wait. It’s not like they’re going to be completely denied i370 gear in the future.

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How many of you have gone out of your way to get the best equipment available in an offline RPG and make your party as strong as the limits of the game will allow, even though it was very often not needed to be able to beat the hardest challenges in the game? Willing to bet a whole bunch of you have. Same idea here.

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Again, put in the EFFORT to get the gear. Instead of giving up after 4 tries, and then whining about how things aren’t just handed to you.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

People really need to stop bringing this up as an argument.

It's not about whether you NEED the best stuff in the game to be able to do stuff; people still WANT to get stronger anyway and since at level 70 there's no way to build your experience level directly through combat any further, the emphasis then goes to equipment.

How many of you have gone out of your way to get the best equipment available in an offline RPG and make your party as strong as the limits of the game will allow, even though it was very often not needed to be able to beat the hardest challenges in the game? Willing to bet a whole bunch of you have. Same idea here.

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And how many of those games require you to progress through lengthily grinds or clear super bosses? The OP is essentially asking for an endless means of obtaining the best gear immediately despite catch up patches already existing. Frankly, FFXIV caters far more than even single player games do. No need to breed a Gold Chocobo, dodge 200 lightning bolts or bring down difficult bosses. Just wait four months and run a raid. That's why people use the aforementioned argument because anyone wanting the i370 gear without doing Savage only want an easy alternative.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

How many of you have gone out of your way to get the best equipment available in an offline RPG

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In how many offline RPGs you really have done this?

Its mostly a huge effort together with beating the hardest optional bosses in that RPG (mostly much harder than the final story battle).

Much more effort than beating Savage in FF14.

The i370 gate for savage seems perfectly reasonable to me. I do EX content, but I don't do savage. As such, I don't stress about getting my ilvl up that high, since I don't ever intend to do savage.

Is it really necessary to remake this thread every time a new raid tier comes out?

If you joined this game during stormblood release and you hate the difficult content, this game wouldn't have been for you back in A Realm Reborn. Byakko Extreme at lvl 70 is much easier than any of the ARR extreme primals at lvl 50 synced, I know I was there pony farming before heavensward. Titan extreme took me a month to complete as a casual and it felt great after beating it at lvl 50, i didn't complain about making the fight easier, instead I worked hard to get better at this game and I did. I didn't even get into savage content back then because I couldn't even get past T9 normal which I really wanted to beat, but I still had access to the rest of the game without being forced to do savage content to complete anything else.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I was trying to do O5S lately in order to get start gaining something in this game and i end up hating O5S so much i was trying to do it 4 times already i give up, ending up with pugs being constantly dropped from the platform and touched by the ghosts, because the way hitboxes and hit registration in this game works is a nightmare and a total BS.

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The problem is you gave up to soon. If you're giving up after 4 tries then you'll never get anywhere.

Having just worked my way through ARR and Heavensward, I can see the 'remnants' of a complex gear-progression system - endless lists of items in Mor Dhona and Idyllshire only good for glamour now, because I could aim straight for Ironworks in ARR, and by the end of Heavensward I could walk into Rowena's and buy all my Shire gear the moment I hit Lv60. Now I've come up to the similar cycle of gear post-Stormblood, and... since I'm not interested in repetitive high-difficulty content, really I don't see the rush to upgrade anything now (beyond completing the story and sidequests), because what's on the other side of it anyway? Nothing currently, and when there *is* something there it'll be worth getting the gear and easier to get it.

Won't miss the troll posts, at least.

BTW - at item lv354 you are already technically overgearing savage. Enrage is practically irrelevant until v7/v8s. You don't have to be good at your job or have high dps to clear the first 2 stages, you just need to not die.

That being said, 5s is definitely the most annoying stage for most groups. It typically take us at least 4 attempts just to get close to clearing it every week lol

So pick yourself up and try again. Or don't. Plenty of other people have little to no problem getting their clears each week, so it's not some impossible feat.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And how many of those games require you to progress through lengthily grinds or clear super bosses? The OP is essentially asking for an endless means of obtaining the best gear immediately despite catch up patches already existing. Frankly, FFXIV caters far more than even single player games do. No need to breed a Gold Chocobo, dodge 200 lightning bolts or bring down difficult bosses. Just wait four months and run a raid. That's why people use the aforementioned argument because anyone wanting the i370 gear without doing Savage only want an easy alternative.

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Yeah, if these threads were things like, "my schedule is too weird for a static, let me do challenge content like clear PoTD solo to get Savage raid gear" I might be like, "okay, on an individual tuning level on a class-by-class basis that could be rough but I can get behind the spirit of that, solo PotD is a heck of a challenge and definitely requires knowledge of the mobs and your class". But it's never anything like that. Go figure.

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You know, I actually do understand that - I even kinda share that sentiment. Everyone wants to get as strong as possible, no surprise here.
But I still believe that the argument "You dont need 370 gear" is legit in this context for a simple reason: The gear is, in theory, available to everyone. Raiding is (thank the twelve!) not like housing, so not a limited ressource. Everyone can get their loot out of Savage every week - if they manage to beat it, obviously.

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Raiding actually IS a limited resource due to only having one chance at loot every week. Not even one piece of loot per week, one CHANCE per week. If your stuff just never ends up dropping (very likely; how often does your stuff drop with just one run of the 24-man raids every week?), or you don't win lots, you're about as limited in getting the gear as you are with the weekly capped tomes due to how many datalogs you need. In some cases it's even worse (why do I need a whole month's worth of O5S wins just to be able to buy a single accessory?)

Lol then go do Relic even tho is currently nothing more then glam in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Raiding actually I S a limited resource due to only having one chance at loot every week. Not even one piece of loot per week, one CHANCE per week. If your stuff just never ends up dropping (very likely; how often does your stuff drop with just one run of the 24-man raids every week?), or you don't win lots, you're about as limited in getting the gear as you are with the weekly capped tomes due to how many datalogs you need. In some cases it's even worse (why do I need a whole month's worth of O5S wins just to be able to buy a single accessory?)

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You didnt understand what I meant by "limited" - raiding and getting the gear is open to everyone. It might take some time and/or luck, but you can absolutly get that gear. You having a piece of gear doesnt stop anyone else to get the same piece of gear. Thats why I compared it to housing: thats a truely limited ressource. Once I bought a house, you cant have it. But if I get my tank-belt, you can still get one too, since they're an unlimited ressource - the game will just create one for you, if you meet the requirements.

Thats what I meant. Me raiding isnt preventing you from doing the same. Me owning my house in the Goblet is very much preventing you from owning that house.

The answer to your question is simple - its not a great answer, but one that points to a necessary evil: To keep the content alive for longer and to make sure that we're not gearing up to fast.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

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What negative impact is not having this gear having on you/non-raiders?

I understand everyone wants the strongest gear possible but we have already established that no one needs that gear, after all Savage was cleared without it by many players in the first week.

If you can't come up with a reason why not having the gear is detrimental to non-raiders I feel like your entire argument is moot.

If the most difficult content you experience is an EX primal it seems sort of silly to say you need i370.

Well Relic being mostly glam is partly true, but by the end of the cycle it usually is bis and then gets replaced by a dungeon weapon next expansion :/

1.5 months from now they will be handing out 370 weapons so.....................yea. Also its called Savage content for a reason

I think the sense of entitlement has got to be nipped before it's allowed to fester. You want 370 items do what people do raid for it. find groups and raid.

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Originally Posted by LastFireAce

Lol then go do Relic even tho is currently nothing more then glam in my opinion.

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That has always been the case though. The relics only ever surpass Savage gear at the end of the expansion.

All this talk about need, lol. You don't need more than one mount either...

Just sayin'

What other reason would we have to do savage?
Like any MMO the best gear is locked behind raiding. As it should be!
(this is aint wow where you get end game gear for free)

The real question I have for the OP is; why do you even feel the need to get savage 370 gear? ilv is nearly pointless outside of the content you express you don't enjoy anyway. This coupled with the gear skins not being unique... and rather ugly is most cases anyway, why bother.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

I think the sense of entitlement has got to be nipped before it's allowed to fester. You want 370 items do what people do raid for it. find groups and raid.

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You mean I don't get a reward for just trying? I thought everyone was a winner and special....

Have you tried finding or creating a static? that's really the way to go when doing savage.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

How many of you have gone out of your way to get the best equipment available in an offline RPG and make your party as strong as the limits of the game will allow, even though it was very often not needed to be able to beat the hardest challenges in the game? Willing to bet a whole bunch of you have. Same idea here.

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Not me, lmao. If I already know that I can complete the content without having to do optional bosses that I don't want to do to get max lvl gear, why would I? Some people enjoy doing the optional bosses in offline RPGs, and more power to them! I personally don't. The point of playing a video game is to enjoy it, not put yourself through unnecessary stress. If savage content is thrilling for you, then awesome! That means you enjoy doing it, and you'll get some high level gear while you're at it!

If savage content is something you dread doing, and you can barely clear it, why are you putting yourself through the stress then? What is the point of having that ilvl before the next patch? Just to say "Look at me and my savage gear, even though I don't actually do savage"? The whole "But my progression" argument is moot because you can progress perfectly fine with the tome gear updates if you're not actually doing savage. What OP wants, is to have the ilvl before the patches without actually doing the work. Which implies a heavy attitude of entitlement. People seem to use the "Why is ____ locked behind a ____ wall?" complaint too often.

"Man, why is driving locked behind a 'owning a license' wall. It's ridiculous!" "Man, why is food locked behind a 'I actually have to pay for this' wall? It's ridiculous!" = This thread in a nutshell.

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Originally Posted by WilhelmWhite

Not me, lmao.
If savage content is something you dread doing, and you can barely clear it, why are you putting yourself through the stress then?

"Man, why is driving locked behind a 'owning a license' wall. It's ridiculous!" "Man, why is food locked behind a 'I actually have to pay for this' wall? It's ridiculous!" = This thread in a nutshell.

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Because they play differently from you and enjoy different things and that's ok.

Some people like having the most powerful character they can have, and will do whatever it takes to try and get the best for them.

I'd said it before, and I'll say it again. I really don't mind the best gear being in the hardest content, it only makes sense. I don't like savage raids, so I don't do them. It is what it is.

What I do mind and get slightly ill about which also leads me to not care enough to even bother with it, is the ridiculous low amount of weekly capped tomes, 450, which requires months of doing the same bland content over and over to obtain somewhat current gear (for only ONE JOB FFS!). And by that time, it's time to do it allll overrr againnn.... Fun times.... meh

I appreciate Eureka for at least once, allowing folks to poopsock for mid level gear. I had two full sets of Eureka gear within 7 days of it's release, and now, I have enough crystals for another set if I wanted it.

Choices, ya know? Options. Two words that I don't see how anyone could have a problem with, and you can't tell me, you like the idea of just 450 tomes. No, you'd just justify it somehow, still not liking it if you're honest with yourself.

The iLVL treadmill is stale today. I'd love to see gear that actually matters to jobs, like lowering the ability recast time. If savage offered such gear, I'd probably do it then.

I dont have much of an issue with the tomestone gear but I dont find the content bland at all.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Because they play differently from you and enjoy different things and that's ok.

Some people like having the most powerful character they can have, and will do whatever it takes to try and get the best for them.

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Why did you purposely cut out the part of my quote where I mentioned twice that people wanting to do the content, and me not wanting to do it is ok? If you're going to quote me, don't cut it into out-of-context pieces please, thanks.

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Originally Posted by WilhelmWhite

If savage content is thrilling for you, then awesome! That means you enjoy doing it, and you'll get some high level gear while you're at it!

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Originally Posted by WilhelmWhite

Some people enjoy doing the optional bosses in offline RPGs, and more power to them! I personally don't.

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And you're missing the point. OP stated multiple times that doing savage wasn't something they enjoyed doing, so my question is "Why do you continue doing it then?" Without doing savage content, you're already super over-geared for everything if you're fully equipped with the i360 tome gear.

Can we just take a minute though and acknowledge that Nedkel hasn't really responded so maybe they really did quit?

I'm sad to see the playerbase get smaller, but it's Nedkel. so...not that sad?