Got kicked Right before boss.

Seriously.. Your tank. You will find a new group before they find another tank

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

...the SCH had some really offensive macros about how drinking bleach was better than playing with this tank).

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Any support I might have given you to kick the OP is nullified by this. You see it as punishment so the tank learns a lesson. I see it as abandoning someone who was being bullied and standing with the abusers. No way can I support such a decision in this particular circumstance.

it was a mistake making this thread...

also Vidu. Could you stop replying to my thread at this point?, Your not helping at all whatsoever, i don't know why you feel so entitled when you weren't even there when this happened, you have made 4 reply's of just pure negativity.

Sorry you had to go through this, it's pure harassing and it's even sadder other people mocked you. But yeah the community used to be nicer and it's still nice in general but there's a lot of holier than thou people in duties now how want a level 50 tank to play as if he/she been playing for months or years. Then people wonder why people ask why NA is toxic.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

Sorry you had to go through this, it's pure harassing and it's even sadder other people mocked you. But yeah the community used to be nicer and it's still nice in general but there's a lot of holier than thou people in duties now how want a level 50 tank to play as if he/she been playing for months or years.

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eh it's fine, just didn't expect to get this much backlash.

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Originally Posted by xMysticx

it was a mistake making this thread...

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It's unfortunately a mistake to make just about any thread on this forum... But I hope you will not let that get you down. For as many toxic players we have on the forums, we have more nice people in game. I hope you have more enjoyable experiences in the future.

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Originally Posted by xMysticx

eh it's fine, just didn't expect to get this much backlash.

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I just remembered back in the day when I started playing, my main job is Paladin as well, and I was in a lvl 60 dungeon. LVL 60 DUNGEON and I was still popping all my cooldowns at once, can you believe that? People made fun of me and called me many things. I felt really bad, but after the dungeon I gave myself the time to look for guides and help to see what was I doing wrong. And man. Feels so good to actually learn a job and get all those easy commendations for doing an excellent job as tank. You had a bad experience, and that sucks, but there's 2 ways to deal with that. Or you move on and learn from it and improve, or you keep blaming others for your mistakes.

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Originally Posted by xMysticx

Oh okay also yes i know how to do the combo set, i mainly didn't use it because i didn't think it would be that effective.

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In the pack of 4 mobs and more its not as effective.
You usually just want to pull 2-3 groups (that means up to 9 mobs) with flash and shield lob, then use some Deffensive ability to not die in the progress, use circle of scron, spirits within on any random mob and spam Total eclipse (that aoe spell you have with blue icon) along with shield swipe whenever it is up.
A combo of 3 skills you use basically if you want to kill single target faster, the bosse or something like this.

You want to use abilities like:
- Circle of scorn
- Spirits within
- shield swipe
Everytime they are up to use, because they cost nothing to use for you and using them will makes things die faster, keep that in mind.
And you want to use deffensive abilities like : Sentinel, bulwark, divine veil, and in the "role" bar bellow "action" you want to choose: Rampart, anticipation, convalescence as your other deffensive abilities using them along with the ones you have already. Dont use all of them at once, wait till one will get off then use a second one and so on. What it will do, is make you tankier, easier to heal, and make you able to hold more mobs than usually.
More mobs means, more hits from aoe abilities, and that means the dungeon will go faster and easier for everyone.
Oh and dont forget to use shield stance if you are fighting many mobs at once, you could switch back to sword stance at the boss and mini-boss, will make you kill it faster.

Dont listen to guys who tells you to use multiple flash, this is stupid advice and you should never follow it. Just make sure that 1 flash hits all the mobs, this is more than enough if you are in the Shield stance, it gives enough treat to keep mobs attacking you, circle of scorn is also a treat generator and makes mobs focus on you.
You only use flash if mobs are focusing someone else than you, you could see it on the side with the enemies list, all of them should have red button on them, that means they are focusing on you, if its yellow that means they are focusing on one of your party members, you should pick that mob back as fast as possible, in this game 1 random mob could easly kill a DPS.

Kaldea, I'm not suggesting you shouldn't have kicked the tank, just that the timing (as other people said) was off. I also kind of agree with whoever said that you were taking the side of bullies, if the other two were being offensive and toxic to this tank. There's a time and a place for kicking, and leaving it right to the end makes you come across as petty and vindictive. You were right in kicking, it's the TIMING that is suspect.


To the tank, you are getting some backlash here, but look at how many people are saying the same thing. They're not digs at you PERSONALLY, just your skill level. That is something you CAN change if you want to. Don't take it as toxicity to be told that you're not performing to the best of your abilities, take it as encouragement to improve. No one here, from what I have seen, has told you anything insulting or toxic; maybe a bit of tough love, but sometimes that's what works.

Get back out there, utilize the tips given here, and improve. There is ALWAYS room for improvement. Even world first raiders work to improve their runs. :)

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Originally Posted by xMysticx

also Vidu. Could you stop replying to my thread at this point?, Your not helping at all whatsoever, i don't know why you feel so entitled when you weren't even there when this happened, you have made 4 reply's of just pure negativity.

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Pure negativity? It seems any criticism of you, no matter how politely phrased, is something you consider hostile.

You admitted yourself you didn't tank everything. That is inexcusable at lvl 51. Over 50 levels and you don't actually understand what your role is supposed to do, never mind how your class works.

He is right, you should be tanking everything not just some things. Imagine if a healer had the same approach as you? That they only healed some of the party and left it up to the rest to deal with it? Or if a dps thought it was okay to only help to kill some mobs and not everything? This behaviour forces other players to work harder. Your tanking forces other players to work harder.

I'm not going to condone kicking you before the last boss, that was a crappy move. But just because you were a victim of a poorly timed kick doesn't mean I'm going to ignore that how you express yourself makes it clear you don't understand what a tank is supposed to do, and that you're allergic to anyone helping you.

Yeah i most definitely work on getting better and improving, i do appreciate the advice that most people have given, thanks for the advice!

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Originally Posted by xMysticx

also Vidu. Could you stop replying to my thread at this point?, Your not helping at all whatsoever, i don't know why you feel so entitled when you weren't even there when this happened, you have made 4 reply's of just pure negativity.

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Just went back and read specifically this person’s posts.

Know what I found?

Someone offering advice tinged by a reaction to your attitude. No entitlement, that’s something coming from you, and he’s reacted to it.

I just hope that you take the advice in this thread to improve upon your tanking, regardless of how or why the advice was given, or the tone of the post that proffered it. As was said, no one is expecting perfection or anything close to it from you; all they expect, and they have a right to expect it, is a certain degree of competence. By your own admission, that competency was lacking in that particular dungeon run (which is why people are jumping on the other person who was there regarding the timing of the vote kick rather than whether the vote kick was justified or not). Please, PLEASE, learn what you can, use what you learn, to improve your playing to match your experience level.

Tanking in this game is easy. Just finish reading this cute tutorial then you'll be more than ready to tank any dungeon in the game. Also if you have trouble reading the text in the picture just right click the picture and then click "open in new tab" to get the full size image.

https://i.imgur.com/K8xqNfc.png

How can someone get to lvl 50 and not understand how to play their job on the most basic lvl? If you are lvl 50 you are not "new" to the game you should know how to play your job and be able to fill your role. I'm sorry OP but I probably would have kicked you too after trying to give you advice and being ignored.

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Originally Posted by AppleJinx

Tanking in this game is easy. Just finish reading this cute tutorial then you'll be more than ready to tank any dungeon in the game. Also if you have trouble reading the text in the picture just right click the picture and then click "open in new tab" to get the full size image.

https://i.imgur.com/enNTh9o.png

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Saving this. How nice of you to link something so useful ^_^

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Originally Posted by xMysticx

Exactly, i would of been less frustrated if they would of just kick early mid dungeon, but instead you waste 25 minutes of my personal time just to fool me, that is a extremely rude move on your end, if your gonna kick somebody do it stop wasting other peoples time, it's not rocket science.

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The lesson have to be learned.
What lesson?
First rule of tanking in mmo says: If team is not happy with you, you are more happy to leave them and force them waiting for a second tank another 30 years.

Nothing less, nothing more, just leave the duty if you get rude comments, you are a tank, you could afford it. xD

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

The lesson have to be learned.
What lesson?
First rule of tanking in mmo says: If team is not happy with you, you are more happy to leave them and force them waiting for a second tank another 30 years.

Nothing less, nothing more, just leave the duty if you get rude comments, you are a tank, you could afford it. xD

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Please, do not listen to this person. As others have said none of us are innately gods at our role and always have room for improvement. Taking advice as insult and waving around the power of your role without improving is only going to harm you in the longrun. You will be kicked later on if you don't have at least the basics of your role down, especially once you get into later heavensward/stormblood content and justifiably so. Sure you may be able to queue back in quickly but when it happens enough it'll really start to ruin the experience for you. Improve yourself so this doesn't happen instead of stubbornly digging your heels in and ignoring those around you, this is a multiplayer game where you work with a team.

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Originally Posted by xMysticx

also Vidu. Could you stop replying to my thread at this point?, Your not helping at all whatsoever, i don't know why you feel so entitled when you weren't even there when this happened, you have made 4 reply's of just pure negativity.

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This is really telling - you calling those replies "pure negativity" kills any credibility you may have had towards saying that Kaldea was 'toxic' towards you.

Get some thicker skin. You should be able to take advice gracefully instead of being offended that someone pushes a bit harder than you might like.

So many people in this thread, Vidu included, have gone out of their way to offer you help and advice and for you to behave in such a way... I hope you're embarassed, you should be.

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Originally Posted by spf1200

How can someone get to lvl 50 and not understand how to play their job on the most basic lvl? If you are lvl 50 you are not "new" to the game you should know how to play your job and be able to fill your role. I'm sorry OP but I probably would have kicked you too after trying to give you advice and being ignored.

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Double exp global event for newcomers + duty roulette bonus for tanks and the story leading lvling.
I was lvl 56 when i finished ARR alone duh.

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Originally Posted by F_Maximillian

Please, do not listen to this person. As others have said none of us are innately gods at our role and always have room for improvement. Taking advice as insult and waving around the power of your role without improving is only going to harm you in the longrun. You will be kicked later on if you don't have at least the basics of your role down, especially once you get into later heavensward/stormblood content and justifiably so. Sure you may be able to queue back in quickly but when it happens enough it'll really start to ruin the experience for you. Improve yourself so this doesn't happen instead of stubbornly digging your heels in and ignoring those around you, this is a multiplayer game where you work with a team.

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Im not saying to ignore the advice, its up to him if he want to make his game more interesting, none could force him to play better right.

And if he gets kicked neither way, he is better of leaving the duty, the moment he choose to play a tank, its the moment he has been elected, mmos are not the democracy. xD
Just leave them behind the haters and let them boil in their hate for long minutes.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Double exp global event for newcomers + duty roulette bonus for tanks and the story leading lvling.
I was lvl 56 when i finished ARR alone duh.

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This. So much. With the bonuses, it is not hard to get to 50 while barely touching dungeons. And I do not find it impossible for no one to have said anything in that time. More than half the roulettes I participate in are dead silent even when people are obviously messing up.

For anyone wondering, I went to go look to see when Ultros was preferred. Jan 30th to Feb 19th. I'll leave it to the OP to confirm whether or not he has the Road to 60 buff or not though. If he wants...

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Originally Posted by xMysticx

First of all i literally just said this was my 1st character, also i'm trying to get better i've done research also you can't expect someone to be a pro first time like i've said i'm getting better, also i never refused advice,

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To be harsh: you are not new. Your char is level 50, which was the maximum level when this game was released. It means you played quite a few hours.
At that level I expect a general competence of any player.
I never expect savage ready performance but I do expect you to know which skill to use in what situation.

Shield lob should be used for 2 things:
- maintaining aggro on a target at a distance
- pulling mobs VERY far away

Contrary to popular opinion I find it quite idiotic to pull groups with it, even though every tank does it. You are left with 2.5s in which X-1 mobs are free to do as they please while you wait on your GCD, while simple minded DPS thinks "TANK DID STH!! ERMAGAAAWD AOE DAMAGE NAO!!11"

I much rather pull with Unleash / Flash or Abyssal drain.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Contrary to popular opinion I find it quite idiotic to pull groups with it, even though every tank does it. You are left with 2.5s in which X-1 mobs are free to do as they please while you wait on your GCD, while simple minded DPS thinks "TANK DID STH!! ERMAGAAAWD AOE DAMAGE NAO!!11"

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This is untrue. You use shield lob to pull groups from range, at which the 2.5s will be filled with gap closing. If this is too much then CoS is a very valid part of your opener. Keeping hate while pulling with shield lob is not harmful in the slightest if you have a basic grasp of tank rotations

Sorry, but kicking before the final boss when their presence wouldn't have prevented the party from completing is griefing. If the party didn't like what was going on they could have dismissed them much earlier.

That said, what's the point of the topic? The GMs will investigate your report and take appropriate action if they feel the reported parties were in the wrong, but they won't tell you their decision.

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Originally Posted by xMysticx

also Vidu. Could you stop replying to my thread at this point?, Your not helping at all whatsoever, i don't know why you feel so entitled when you weren't even there when this happened, you have made 4 reply's of just pure negativity.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

The way you are apparently playing, with Shield Loop as your favorite skill isnt "finishing dungeons perfectly just fine".
It would have been another group stuck with a tank apparently unable to tank - you seem to have at least understood that, which is good! :)

But the attitude of "some other group wouldnt have minded carry me through the dungeon" is rude itself, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

"Most of the damage"? Except for raid-wide AoEs and AoEs people are supposed to move out off, you're supposed to take all the damage.

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If you find this "pure negativity" instead of actually showing where your issue is, then I'm sorry. You shouldn't tank.

If you are a tank, then let me put it bluntly. You need to TANK EVERYTHING YOU PULL and not just whatever you wanna shield lob. If you think stating a tank should be tanking (WOAH RIGHT?) is pure negativity, what's going to happen to when you people actually lose it with you in the dungeon? I've seen nasty messages. I've stated nasty messages (Never typed or voiced to, don't wanna get banned I just vent) and you clearly can't handle even basic role requirements.

Do we expect you to know exactly when to sword oath for more damage? Am I expecting you to always Royal when you hit 60? Nah. I can worry about your damage way later on. What I'd be concern about is you doing your role. Your tanking. Because let's be fair here. If I wanted to tank when I go in the dungeon, I'd go as a tank, not a DRG.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Sorry, but kicking before the final boss when their presence wouldn't have prevented the party from completing is griefing. If the party didn't like what was going on they could have dismissed them much earlier.

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Wait so now kicking someone by the end of the dungeon is griefing if we can still clear with them? Jeez where's my ban? I've kicked quite a few people in front of the last boss quite a few times in Stormblood alone, and what they did to warrant it wouldn't hurt the last boss.

If you want examples since I know they'll be asked, pulling for the tank despite being told to stop multiple times. Moreso on Ninja's with Shadewalker. Medica II spamming by Doma Castle (Please stop this it was so annoying.) Inability to hold threat in a dungeon where tanks aren't needed (So like, 95% of boss fights.)

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

multiple times.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

spamming

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Inability to hold threat in a dungeon where tanks aren't needed

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All would have been obvious well before the end of the run.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

All would have been obvious well before the end of the run.

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And any attempt to help? Like what was mentioned before did happen? If you want I can just start throwing a kick every time someone's not doing something right. That's what Mentors are meant to do right? Kick instead of trying to help the person?

Ok so you should only lLob the shield on your pull, I like to flash twice before doing the rage of halone combo and then I usually flash after each of my combos, never lob unless you luse hate and you are provoking the enemy back to you.

It's TamTara HM. If at the 2nd boss they decided they were done he could have kept pulling so that they couldn't engage in abandon either. Or the chests were open. Were they able to initiate after the 2nd boss in the first place?

Say he never got kicked. He didn't make this thread, how would he learn? Say all three of them were vile (2 of 4 confirmed while one was complicit). What came of this but the OP having a)a bad experience and b) now learning he has much more to work on?

Instead his reaction is that his time was wasted. This entire thing is a fiasco. Eventually, people snap. Could the kicker have done it at a better time? Yes.

Maybe they were hoping they would get better until finally they snapped and the only way to have the OP know that something is -seriously wrong- is to kick. Otherwise they might just leave and you might never be able to tell them "Hey you are in serious need of improvement. Please let me help you."

Edit: OP, in the future, please make sure you get and equip fending accessories. Or not mix maiming and aiming and fending.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

And any attempt to help? Like what was mentioned before did happen?

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Indicate what you would like them to do once, maybe twice. If it's ignored or they start to argue, leave it be and continue with the run, attempt a dismissal or leave and eat the penalty. What is accomplished by dismissing at the end of the run?

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Sorry, but kicking before the final boss when their presence wouldn't have prevented the party from completing is griefing. If the party didn't like what was going on they could have dismissed them much earlier.

That said, what's the point of the topic? The GMs will investigate your report and take appropriate action if they feel the reported parties were in the wrong, but they won't tell you their decision.

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He ignored the party (and was supposedly somewhat rude to them to boot) who disagreed with his playstyle. Neither party was necessarily in the right, but neither were entirely wrong. This falls under "difference in playstyles" which the GMs do not get involved with.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Indicate what you would like them to do once, maybe twice. If it's ignored or they start to argue, leave it be and continue with the run, attempt a dismissal or leave and eat the penalty. What is accomplished by dismissing at the end of the run?

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So they should try to help, and then if they don't respond to the help, just forget it and continue 3 manning the dungeon? Why? If they aren't going to even attempt to improve, with help offered, they deserve to be booted.

Honestly I would have kicked anyone not preforming their role (i.e tank losing threat everywhere, healer not healing etc), replace and move on, it's not the end of the world if they don't take any advice I won't waste it if they haven't caught onto how to do their primary role by lvl 50.

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Originally Posted by Awful

Honestly I would have kicked anyone not preforming their role (i.e tank losing threat everywhere, healer not healing etc), replace and move on, it's not the end of the world if they don't take any advice I won't waste it if they haven't caught onto how to do their primary role by lvl 50.

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Since the group in question put up with this tank for the entire dungeon, kicking them at the end was really pointless. It accomplished nothing, really. If I was there I likely would have voted against it. But...they were in their right to do so. Whether it was ethically right or wrong is up for debate, but the GMs likely won't interfere because it's a difference in playstyles thing.

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Originally Posted by Veliena

So they should try to help, and then if they don't respond to the help, just forget it and continue 3 manning the dungeon? Why? If they aren't going to even attempt to improve, with help offered, they deserve to be booted.

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"attempt a dismissal"

When I first started tanking I wasn’t great at holding aggro and was told to stop tanking. Sometimes I was booted at the last boss and it’s more annoying when people say nothing the entire run and then jus kick you. People however become more friendly if you acknowledge their advise. :)

With paladin in the lower dungeons I used to throw a shield lob at monsters, walk through them and turn around and hit them a few times with flash - seemed to work. Keep an eye out during the fight at the markers against the monster names, if they start going to a red triangle (I think) or yellow, chuck a new flash, since it means you’re losing aggro. :)

Tanking requires quite a bit of awareness of where monsters are, where you put them and monitoring aggro. Also a knowledge of the dungeon helps and you have to decide how much you pull and are comfortable pulling and putting cooldowns in to survive bigger pulls or tank busters. :)

Have fun :)

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

kicking them at the end was really pointless. It accomplished nothing, really.

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???

The existence of this thread and the OP actually showing a modicum of self reflection about how he plays because of it shows me that it accomplished quite a lot.

You can sit here wringing your hands about how awful it was, but he was given an entire dungeon to listen to advice that was offered, and in the end it was the only method that led to any results.

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Originally Posted by IttyBitty

???

The existence of this thread and the OP actually showing a modicum of self reflection about how he plays because of it shows me that it accomplished quite a lot.

You can sit here wringing your hands about how awful it was, but he was given an entire dungeon to listen to advice that was offered, and in the end it was the only method that led to any results.

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All we know is what both parties have said, if this were a court case and say he was suing the other party members, either side would have to provide proof or witnesses, so far i've seen only 2 stories and no corroborating evidence to prove that one or the other was in the wrong.

Don't be so quick to judge either side without having all the evidence.

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Originally Posted by xMysticx

First of all i literally just said this was my 1st character, also i'm trying to get better i've done research also you can't expect someone to be a pro first time like i've said i'm getting better, also i never refused advice,

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To some people, ignoring the chat a person posts that gives you suggestions in the chat log is the same thing as refusing advice.

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Originally Posted by IttyBitty

???

The existence of this thread and the OP actually showing a modicum of self reflection about how he plays because of it shows me that it accomplished quite a lot.

You can sit here wringing your hands about how awful it was, but he was given an entire dungeon to listen to advice that was offered, and in the end it was the only method that led to any results.

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That's fine, the group was right to kick them. But it didn't really accomplish anything but make them wait for a tank.