How About a Little Love for Mages, Please

There appears to be a total of three... maybe three and a half ... that have the brain capacity to understand what we're trying to explain.

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Originally Posted by CTSwiftheal

you guys are argueing about argueing when the the op is talking about scaleing spell dmg with the lvl of the weapon you guys are talking about materia and bonus stats.

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but we dont use our weapons to cast. all kidding aside what you guys don't get is that it is a formulaic difference. Lets say the formula for mage damage was int times weapon damage times spell power minus mnd then of course equiping a weapon with low weapon damage would have a huge effect on your damage but if the formula was int times spell power minus mnd then it would not matter what the weapon damage or level was on the weapon it is not a factor in the damage you do.

Lol i am so in this new system original force and OP trying to explain, pls implement it devs.

Because they have not a single idea how it would caused to the game in general, because people with gimp equips will be far away compare to the people with proper gears and will never ever gets invites anymore with this scale system and materia because gears will be > skills at this rate. Imagine what will happens to people without brain and gears hahaha


/elitist on

I got to page 6 before finally stopping.

For the OP: Why are you playing a game that values, or attempts to value, player skill > gear? (For magic classes in particular)

I understand that you think a mage's damage should be affected more by a weapon the higher that's weapon level is, but the developers believe that mages' damage should come from being a mage first and then factor in what gear you have. This is different from how they view melee classes, where their base damage comes from their weapon selection.

Next question to the OP: If you disagree with how the developers view the core mechanics of the game (IE how mages damage should be calculated) why are you playing the game?

Another issue that I didn't see brought up in the 6 pages I read is why the damage is tested on level 50 monsters using a level 1 weapon versus a level 50 weapon. The way mages' base damage is calculated is determined by their level compared to the monster they are fighting. Of course a level 50 fighting a level 50 is going to have minimal resists and therefore, approximately the same damage. Go fight Ifrit with a level 1 weapon (with materia) 10 times and then again with an appropriate higher end weapon (presumably Lightning Brand or Electrum with materia) 10 times and show the parses.

If you do not get less resists and higher dps with the higher weapon consistently, then yes mage weapons are broken. For arguments sake, I assume you are going to say that your point is that materia shouldn't be factored into the base damage on weapons, but fact of the matter is that any level 1 weapon is going to how lower stats than any level 41+ weapon simply based on possible materia choices.

With that in mind, your quarrel should be with how potent the base stats of weapons are (IE how much +int/m.acc they have) compared to how strong a weapon can be with double materia. I believe that your problems would be alleviated if U/U gear was actually pertinent to the game and not all about materia.

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Originally Posted by Ashthra

ITT: Assuming Assumptions

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Yeah, okay.
Nothing you posted has any basis in fact, we're just running around like chickens with our heads cut off at this point... and nothing that SE has done in the past, especially anything to do with XI, has any relevance here. The current director of this game has nothing to do with XI.
And are we even going to pretend that Yoshida hasn't already done crazier things than this with the game in the period of time he's been in charge?

I'm not going to automatically assume he'd incorrectly implement the suggestion with nothing to go on but the stuff I've pulled outta my ass. And no, the level scaling of the spells themselves has jack shit to do with the actual calculation of base magic damage just like melee WS also scale with level but the actual base damage of the WEAPON is also a factor in the WS damage. Who is to say that it cannot be the same for magic? Would they have to retool everything to make this work? Of course, but that is the damn point.
Does that mean it'll be a nerf across the board to everyone aside from the best of the best? No, why would it..? Because you said so?


And maybe 1h weapons would lose their utility in many party situations, but their main benefit is supposed to be the use of a shield. If a shield isn't important enough to use on a mage, thats a whole other problem that should be addressed separately.

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Originally Posted by CTSwiftheal

Other than the lack of content this is my greatest concern for the future of the game. Stats mean nothing, it should be imposable to defeat ifrit when the tank is wearing a reindeer outfit and the mages as dps are using weathered scepters.

If i have 250 str and 500 att and my friend has 255 str and 505 att he should do more dmg than me.

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Give the <3 SE!

Wow this thread exploded while I was gone. Okay, one thing I'd like to add before I go on about my point of view on the matter. If you say U/U weapons are pointless then I'd ask you to try using them. The Twin Adder 2-handed Thm staff is great for getting criticals and so is the Moogle Staff (though I agree Ifrit's is bad). I have both and I prefer them over a lightning brand with double Tier III materia.

Anyways, I'll try to keep this short because I really think long posts aren't very constructive as they have a tendency to delude the main point.

The fact of the matter is that regardless of the complaint that the OP makes about base damage being laughable, the real damage comes from criticals, how much more damage your criticals do, how few times you get resisted and NOT base damage. Why do you want DoM to be just like DoW? Seriously? Because I don't. I enjoy that my damage doesn't only come from my weapon.

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Originally Posted by CTSwiftheal

lvl 1 and 1300 posts, i choose not to pay any attention to you. give me Amy back at least she plays the game.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yeah I don't play the game at all, damn glad you told me I wouldn't have known otherwise, guess I'll go back to rotting on my THM that I don't play.

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Sorry, but you go out of your way to hide who you are. Your post are often uninformed or uneducated to the class. We have no real reason to believe you have any experience to validate anything you say.

I agree with the OP 100%. Mages weapons should have a "spell damage" stat on them that is taken into consideration when casting spells and calculating their damage. It is utterly ridiculous that a level 50 can output the same dmg with a level 1 weapon as a level 50. It completely bastardizes the armory system, reducing the weapon to little more than a means for switching classes. If you cannot see this then you need to pull your head out of the sand and/or experiece mmos other than Final Fantasy XI/XIV.

Upgrading your weapon should be no different than upgrading all your other slots of gear. Why argue the weapon shouldn't be upgraded? Are you mental? Spell damage/power should be a critical stat to the mage arsenal and give them a reason to upgrade other than for the ability to put better materia on and to get gimmicks like "lightning magic potency+20" (whatever THAT means). Those same that argue the reason to use a lightning brand is to get that special stat and slot int+20 instead of INT+2 might also consider that you could just as easily put potency increases on a blank weapon for the same effect. Thus your argument loses credibility.

Fact of the matter is if you think the current system is acceptable in a modern mmo world, you need to reanalyze your thought process. It is unfair to think melee should upgrade every slot to be end game viable but mages should get a pass on upgrading their weapon because you can't see past the FF fanboy crap. SE is in the wrong on this one and it ought to be corrected. Furthermore whoever said opening up the game to such a concept would actually limit your options is very short-sighted. Adding something like this in would give SE the ability to create significant distinction between 1h and 2h'd versions of mage class weapons (outside of materia options), thus giving you much greater choice down the line.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

/falls back to original my reply.

Damage is not black and white.

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but the damage your talking about is more like light grey vs lighter grey

damage isnt black and what but there isnt enough of a difference.

the poster above made the best point of all, Ifrit should not be beatable by people with weathered weapons and vanity gear.
damage shouldnt be that black and white but your gear sure as hell should have a much larger impact on your output.
the output your gear gives you is also a great incentive to get that gear.
my buddy started playing a few weeks ago (Mooshywooshy) and he only plays in gear he thinks looks good (i have pics) because he noticed there isnt much of a noticeable impact from gear enough for him to care (which is the opposite of how he felt about gear in FFXI and other MMOs)

i disagree with OP. Mage weapons should not have base stats for magic dmg. they arent the same as melees. mages actually dont need weapons at all to cast magic we just have them equipped because of the armory system. if there would be mage dmg stats on weapons we would just use the lvl 50 weapons and that would limit us too strong.

So, the complaint is that mages want to have to spend money on higher level gear to be on par with the other classes? Mages these days, guffaw.

But in all seriousness, I personally think it makes more sense for your weapon to have little to do with magic damage. I know it is probably supposed to be a catalyst or whatnot, but the magic comes from inside you... probably.

*lets myself out*

Have you tried to nuke on Ifrit without M.accu equip?? i don't think if u write this post ^^

@GreyJorildyn
@Dreadnought
@Pretty much anyone who agrees with OP

I will say this again,
Just because it does not add to base damage does not mean there is no difference.
Just because it's not a carbon copy of how Melee works does not mean it's pointless.
Just because YOU don't see the difference does not mean it's not there.

Unless you show me an in dept parse test vs ifrit, showing no difference at all with exactly the same gear except for one with a level 1 Thm MH and one with a U/U or even non-melded 41+ Thm MH then you have no room to say it should be changed

OK, for those of you who got my point - specifically, that mage weapons should scale base damage, just as meele weapons do, congratulations. For those of you who think it's ok for a level 1 weathered scepter to do the same, base damage as a verdant, Ifrit or Moogle cudgel, or an unmelded electrum, fine, you're entiltled to your opinion, but essentially you're saying it's ok for these (what should be) highly sought-after rewards to be worthless. How would you like it if the Ifrit bow or lance did the same base damage as a weathered weapon? Kind of defeats the whole purpose of running the dungeons, doesn't it?

For those of you who totally missed the point, choosing to focus on my damage as opposed to the constant that I was trying to portray - the reason I didn't list my gear here is because IT'S IRRELAVENT. I could be bare-ass nuking and (at least I thought) could get my point across.

I'm not saying that this incremental base damage increase should be such that it totally outweighs or overpowers the affect of melding. If you've gone thru the trouble, pain, and gil to triple stack your electrum or lightning brand, you should be rewarded in the form of higher damage, and congratulations to you. However, you can do the same triple stack on a crab bow and should experience the same thing vs. the Ifrit bow, but it doesn't work like that, now does it. Otherwise, we would see everyone running around with their triple stacked crab bow instead of their Ifrit's bow.

So my point is, once again, this, and only this - higher level (and more highly sought after) mage weapons should result in > nuke damage. This doesn't mean that they should be the end-all, EPen weapon in that class vs. a hard earned, triple stacked weapon.

Everyone's entitled to his/her opinion, and it's clearly your right to agree/disagree with this too. However, if you choose to attack my point of view, at least stick to the point. I'm not interested in YOUR damage vs. mine, nor do you have the right to assume I don't understand which stats drives thm damage, because you simply don't know, now do you?

In the meantime, my Ifrit cane and cudgel will either sit on my retainer, because a single stacked electrum or jade crook outperforms these weapons, or I will use these to stike a meaningless, hollow pose, weapon drawn, while afk in Ul Dah.

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Originally Posted by zzapp

OK, for those of you who got my point - specifically, that mage weapons should scale base damage, just as meele weapons do, congratulations. For those of you who think it's ok for a level 1 weathered scepter to do the same, base damage as a verdant, Ifrit or Moogle cudgel, or an unmelded electrum, fine, you're entiltled to your opinion, but essentially you're saying it's ok for these (what should be) highly sought-after rewards to be worthless. How would you like it if the Ifrit bow or lance did the same base damage as a weathered weapon? Kind of defeats the whole purpose of running the dungeons, doesn't it?

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Not reading the rest of your post and stopping you there.
A. Damage is not back and white. You do more damage by resisting less and doing more criticals as well as critical damage based off of certain stats.
B. U/U weapons are not worthless
C. Level 1 weapon does not = level 50 U/U - there is a VERY noticeable damage difference, if you take your head out of your ***.
D. DoM is not DoW why would you have them be the same.

OP thinks that his opinion on mage weapons is the only way to do it. But the mage weapons right now work fine.
yes spell damage doesnt scale with the weapon and yet you dont see lvl 50 thm runing around with weathered weapons. you know why? because first of all you cant insert high tear materia into it and secondly most of the lower weapons have lower additional stats like magic acc., magical crit rate or magic potency.
so what exactly would a rework of the weapons, by adding a stat that has big influence on spell dmg do? you would see thm run around only with lvl 50 weapons. atm you see them runing around with lvl 41 and higher weapons.

Before I properly geared my thm, Thundara on Ifrit did about 500, now I am a fair way into my gear and double melds and supplement a more damage orientated build with food to keep the macc right, it consistently does ~700.

A 40% increase in damage from gear clearly shows stats in this game are not broken.

As for con, simply buying 3 MND rings and a cheap ass healing pot/mnd+ cowl will raise your curas from 900 to about 1100

If they were, surely people wouldn't need to gear the hell out of their ARCs to get the 10 min moogle achievement.

Also, whilst the reindeer suit tank on Ifrit is a bit stupid, its more down to the setup people use than stats being broken. Anyone that has healed on Ifrit will know how excessively the healers tend to cure bomb the tank - if their HP dips below 75% both healers start using cura, because its definitely better than neither, but thats ~2.4K of curing to about 1k HP, meaning there is a LOT of leeway in how the tank is geared. A skilled and optimally geared healer and tank combo makes a single healer setup possible, but I doubt a tank in a reindeer suit would manage. The fact is people chose not to do that, because it's safer the other way.

Top tier gear is a luxury and not a necessity, the Ifrit fight is a prime example of that - it is keeping hate and keeping Ifrit positioned so plumes are predictable that makes or breaks the run for the tank, and it is managing WS/Spells between WS windows to avoid eruptions that makes or breaks it for everyone else, and this is down to player skill.

Top gear being a luxury, and player skill being a necessity is the way this game should be.

I am just hoping the skill level required rises in future patches.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Not reading the rest of your post and stopping you there.
A. Damage is not back and white. You do more damage by resisting less and doing more criticals as well as critical damage based off of certain stats.
B. U/U weapons are not worthless
C. Level 1 weapon does not = level 50 U/U - there is a VERY noticeable damage difference, if you take your head out of your ***.
D. DoM is not DoW why would you have them be the same.

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Is reading comprehension a lost art? You know, my daddy once told me never argue with an idiot, it's simply an arguement you cannot win, and he was right.

You can refuse to acknowledge that meele weapons scale, while mage weapons do not, and/or you can say that that's ok, but don't be selective or subjective in your base arguement.

A. Don't specify that additional mage damage is purely affected by (magic) accuracy and crits, while implying that meele damage is not affected by the same. Crits and acc apply to meele just as it does to mage. The point is, however, that meele BASE damage scales, on top of that, while mage damage does not.

B/C. A single melded jade crook cures > than Ifrit cane. A single melded electrum scepter nukes > Ifrit cudgel, therefore, essentially rendering these U/U weapons worthless. Did you even bother reading my OP? For the record, a verdant is a blue U/U, and generated 2.7% more damage than a weathered cudgel. So I ask, where is this VERY noticeable damage difference you elude to? Maybe one should examine where one's head is before suggesting where someone else's is?

D. Look, I fully realize that DoM and DoW are different, but to say it's ok for meele weapons to scale in damage and not mage is simply wrong. Don't cloud the issue by saying that mage damage increases with more macc or crits, when the very same applieis to meeles ON TOP OF the base damage incremental add.

I'm done commenting on this subject. I've said what I intended to say, and I don't know how to articulate this in any clearer fashion. All I've tried to do here is point out what I consider (imho) to be a grossly broken aspect of the game. You can choose to agree or disagree. I really don't care.

Basically what they want is this is a level 1 weapon does 500 Damage. a level 50 weapon should do 800 damage. Not understanding that doing this. Will make SE have to redo the stats for thm/cnj or they will become extremely OP in damage.

You claim that mage weapons don't have stats for mage. But they do. Magic crit/Magic acc/Magic pot/MP/INT/MND/PIE
These stats are on the weapons. The benefit's for using a high level weapons are there. You are just refusing the see them. All you care about are seeing bigger numbers. Mage stats have always worked completely different from melee. So the weapons logically will work different. When people don't understand how stats work and don't see huge difference they assume they don't work. So no matter what we say or what we show. they won't care and still think its broken.

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Originally Posted by Xianghua

When people don't understand how stats work and don't see huge difference they assume they don't work. So no matter what we say or what we show. they won't care and still think its broken.

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This. Even though there's been numerous testing after 1.19 in regards to stat cap testing, people still believe it's broken. When I snapped that search display it clearly shows mage stats and as you said, mages work differently which they do in every other MMO that has mage and melee archetypes.

Though what would I know, I "go out of my way to hide my main even though I simply chose not to select it when you were forced to last year because go figure that people had the option to or not" oh and "misinformed because I don't agree everything about classes is broken or need to change." lol

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

Mages weapons should have a "spell damage" stat on them that is taken into consideration when casting spells and calculating their damage.

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It's called Magic Accuracy, Magic Critical Rate, INT and Piety.

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Mages weapons should have a "spell damage" stat on them that is taken into consideration when casting spells and calculating their damage.

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Playerbase: WE WANT THE CLASSES TO FEEL MORE INDIVIDUAL

SE: How would you like us to do that?

Playerbase: GIVE MAGE AND MELEE CLASSES THE SAME DAMAGE MECHANICS

Good effort.

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

Playerbase: WE WANT THE CLASSES TO FEEL MORE INDIVIDUAL

SE: How would you like us to do that?

Playerbase: GIVE MAGE AND MELEE CLASSES THE SAME DAMAGE MECHANICS

Good effort.

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Inb4:

"But wait that was the VOCAL MINORITY, no one with a brain wanted class individuality."

also inb4:

"We do want it, but the damage should be calculated the same because I refuse to use materia."

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Originally Posted by zzapp

Is reading comprehension a lost art? You know, my daddy once told me never argue with an idiot, it's simply an arguement you cannot win, and he was right.

You can refuse to acknowledge that meele weapons scale, while mage weapons do not, and/or you can say that that's ok, but don't be selective or subjective in your base arguement.

A. Don't specify that additional mage damage is purely affected by (magic) accuracy and crits, while implying that meele damage is not affected by the same. Crits and acc apply to meele just as it does to mage. The point is, however, that meele BASE damage scales, on top of that, while mage damage does not.

B/C. A single melded jade crook cures > than Ifrit cane. A single melded electrum scepter nukes > Ifrit cudgel, therefore, essentially rendering these U/U weapons worthless. Did you even bother reading my OP? For the record, a verdant is a blue U/U, and generated 2.7% more damage than a weathered cudgel. So I ask, where is this VERY noticeable damage difference you elude to? Maybe one should examine where one's head is before suggesting where someone else's is?

D. Look, I fully realize that DoM and DoW are different, but to say it's ok for meele weapons to scale in damage and not mage is simply wrong. Don't cloud the issue by saying that mage damage increases with more macc or crits, when the very same applieis to meeles ON TOP OF the base damage incremental add.

I'm done commenting on this subject. I've said what I intended to say, and I don't know how to articulate this in any clearer fashion. All I've tried to do here is point out what I consider (imho) to be a grossly broken aspect of the game. You can choose to agree or disagree. I really don't care.

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Are you ignoring my words just to prove your own non-existent point? The damage from Thm (your original post, don't try to point at Cnj and talk about cures, that's a completely different subject) comes from stats on the weapon (more accuracy = less resists = more damage. more cit rate = more criticals = more damage. more magic potency = higher base damage = higher damage. those are the simple ones)
Blue U/U giving you a small percentage of increase in BASE damage via stats on the weapon is not the issue at ALL. It is the stats on the weapon that give one an edge over the other, U/U having nice stats (most of the time) and weathered having none.

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Originally Posted by Xianghua

Basically what they want is this is a level 1 weapon does 500 Damage. a level 50 weapon should do 800 damage. Not understanding that doing this. Will make SE have to redo the stats for thm/cnj or they will become extremely OP in damage.

You claim that mage weapons don't have stats for mage. But they do. Magic crit/Magic acc/Magic pot/MP/INT/MND/PIE
These stats are on the weapons. The benefit's for using a high level weapons are there. You are just refusing the see them. All you care about are seeing bigger numbers. Mage stats have always worked completely different from melee. So the weapons logically will work different. When people don't understand how stats work and don't see huge difference they assume they don't work. So no matter what we say or what we show. they won't care and still think its broken.

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Pretty much this.

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

Playerbase: WE WANT THE CLASSES TO FEEL MORE INDIVIDUAL

SE: How would you like us to do that?

Playerbase: GIVE MAGE AND MELEE CLASSES THE SAME DAMAGE MECHANICS

Good effort.

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Making this my signature, thank you. I lol'd.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It's called Magic Accuracy, Magic Critical Rate, INT and Piety.

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As well as native resist rates the monster may have -- Do we really need another base calculation? Melee only has Weapon base damage, STR and Attack power that modifies weapon skill damage (this is ignoring auto-attack mods, as Lancer has Piety as a 2nd mod for example.)

Mages has quite a bit more calculations as is, as this quote says; Magic Accuracy, Magic Critical Rate, INT, Piety, MND (for healing), Healing Potency, {Element} Potency...

Adding weapon base damage to baseline your overall damage is a bit much at this point, especially since it can scale your power down or up depending on the fact if you have the highest or lowest weapon damage weapon -- What about cross class spells? You do know Melee weapons, particular on the Marauder side, has very high base damage, right? Wouldn't with BD calculations mean MRD would nuke higher than a THM/CNJ would since we're ignoring all obvious factors of M.Crits/INT/etc?

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

Also, whilst the reindeer suit tank on Ifrit is a bit stupid, its more down to the setup people use than stats being broken. Anyone that has healed on Ifrit will know how excessively the healers tend to cure bomb the tank - if their HP dips below 75% both healers start using cura, because its definitely better than neither, but thats ~2.4K of curing to about 1k HP, meaning there is a LOT of leeway in how the tank is geared. A skilled and optimally geared healer and tank combo makes a single healer setup possible, but I doubt a tank in a reindeer suit would manage. The fact is people chose not to do that, because it's safer the other way.

Top tier gear is a luxury and not a necessity, the Ifrit fight is a prime example of that - it is keeping hate and keeping Ifrit positioned so plumes are predictable that makes or breaks the run for the tank, and it is managing WS/Spells between WS windows to avoid eruptions that makes or breaks it for everyone else, and this is down to player skill.

Top gear being a luxury, and player skill being a necessity is the way this game should be.

I am just hoping the skill level required rises in future patches.

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This is my issue with the game. Top teir gear is a luxury and getting the top teir gear requires very little skill. Why should we bother getting these top end gears if they are not going to make us stronger for the next content? Why waste all my time doing Ifrit and Moogle when i can get a lvl 41+ thm weapon, meld it with acc and int, and preform better with it than a lvl 50 current content weapon. Players have nothing to strive for in the game right now. My entire linkshell sits around all day and crafts and gathers because there is nothing to do. None of our Mnks, Arcs, Glas, Lncs, Mrds want to do moogle because the Ifrit weapons are better. None of our mages need to do these fights cause we all have tripple melded Lightning brands. In about a month I am going to have all my jobs to 50 and noone is going to need to go acomplish anything. I can only create so many things for my members to do out of thin air, all we can do is hope for some content that is progressive and necessary rather than "were so good we can beat all the current content in bikinis and reindeer outfits"

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Originally Posted by CTSwiftheal

This is my issue with the game. Top teir gear is a luxury and getting the top teir gear requires very little skill. Why should we bother getting these top end gears if they are not going to make us stronger for the next content? Why waste all my time doing Ifrit and Moogle when i can get a lvl 41+ thm weapon, meld it with acc and int, and preform better with it than a lvl 50 current content weapon. Players have nothing to strive for in the game right now. My entire linkshell sits around all day and crafts and gathers because there is nothing to do. None of our Mnks, Arcs, Glas, Lncs, Mrds want to do moogle because the Ifrit weapons are better. None of our mages need to do these fights cause we all have tripple melded Lightning brands. In about a month I am going to have all my jobs to 50 and noone is going to need to go acomplish anything. I can only create so many things for my members to do out of thin air, all we can do is hope for some content that is progressive and necessary rather than "were so good we can beat all the current content in bikinis and reindeer outfits"

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So now you are on content and rewards? Stick with one argument and stop changing just to try to prove your point. We all know that the mage weapons from ifrit/moogle suck. But its not because damage doesn't effect spells. but because The stats on them are worse then what materia adds. that's the problem, stats don't need to be changed or revamped. The weapons just need better stats. (which will come with future weapons.)

If your members don't want to do content because they don't like the rewards that's their own fault not ours or SEs. It sounds like you have the type of people who only care for their own gains and would stop showing up after they get what they want. If that is indeed the case I'd start looking for new members.

I seriously don't understand why you people can not understand simple things.

We are still in the middle of a complete revamp. Until it's done SE just doesn't have the time to go and put out all this content and rewards people are after. Simple fact the stronger they make the gear and weapons now. the more OP everyone comes later on. Its really pathetic you see people wanting fights to be harder and longer. But at the same time want weapons/gear to be stronger and better.

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Originally Posted by CTSwiftheal

This is my issue with the game. Top teir gear is a luxury and getting the top teir gear requires very little skill. Why should we bother getting these top end gears if they are not going to make us stronger for the next content? Why waste all my time doing Ifrit and Moogle when i can get a lvl 41+ thm weapon, meld it with acc and int, and preform better with it than a lvl 50 current content weapon. Players have nothing to strive for in the game right now. My entire linkshell sits around all day and crafts and gathers because there is nothing to do. None of our Mnks, Arcs, Glas, Lncs, Mrds want to do moogle because the Ifrit weapons are better. None of our mages need to do these fights cause we all have tripple melded Lightning brands. In about a month I am going to have all my jobs to 50 and noone is going to need to go acomplish anything. I can only create so many things for my members to do out of thin air, all we can do is hope for some content that is progressive and necessary rather than "were so good we can beat all the current content in bikinis and reindeer outfits"

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Pushing aside the opinion based part of your post I will tell you that you can not beat moogle with bikini's and reindeer outfits. Like I've told others, I'll tell you, there is a huge difference between the scripted fight that is Ifrit and real content. I would place my bet that no one could even beat Darkhold in reindeer outfits. I would really like to see a badly geared party even attempt any of the stronghold NM's without having their butts handed to them on a silver platter, let alone moogle.

Almost 24 hours, and this thread is still going.

My head hurts now. ; ;

Im closing this thread. Thanks for all the input. We will look in to all the data and make changes 10 months from now. Please keep supporting us!

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Originally Posted by Ashthra

Almost 24 hours, and this thread is still going.

My head hurts now. ; ;

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Yeah, really.

I don't care how they do it. I just kno they need to fix al the gear and stats. Some stats work better now with the reworking. Some or just as useless. Way to much gear is all but pointless because of this.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

I don't care how they do it. I just kno they need to fix al the gear and stats. Some stats work better now with the reworking. Some or just as useless. Way to much gear is all but pointless because of this.

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How? Next to nothing is useless.

I just cannot agree with the stats being useless on *any* class. As many as said, it all depends on what you have. Me personally, I strive for 300 of the main stat in all my jobs - on secondary I focus on a good bit as well. It really works and makes quite a noticeable impact.

For THM, specifically since this thread talks about mages - I sit around 308 INT/270 PIE / 265 MND / 469 M.Potency / 449 Macc. (I want more macc). But, having done Moogle and Ifrit with this gear - I can say it truely makes a world of difference. Not being resisted on blizzara's bind on THM for moogle is a huge plus, and not messing up your combos.

While true they can stand to fix itemization (even XI's static growth for years was much more refined than what XIV had till they moved to the "require" system) the stats themselves are perfectly fine.

There's been testing and testing shows that due to our high stat bases it takes equally as high stat mods to show true increases in your performance.

If we were sitting at XI numbers (i.e Stat bases of 5 - 80, rather than 200+) it would be a lot more balanced and noticeable. People are still in their "nothing in this game is good/works" mode of thinking even though they've made strides in correcting that.

People say that they're useless and broken, Because logically you can't agree with what you don't understand.

They don't understand that SE can't make stats do the increase they want. Without lowering the base stats and the stats that materia and gear give. Or changing the stats of the mobs. They don't understand doing 100dmg to a mob with 1000hp is the same as doing 1000 to a mob with 10k hp. they don't understand that when we have 200+ of every stat it will require much more then +20 of a stat to see a noticeable boost. They don't understand that if they made stats have a big increase Materia would be overpowered. Until they understand this stats will always be "broken"

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

While true they can stand to fix itemization (even XI's static growth for years was much more refined than what XIV had till they moved to the "require" system) the stats themselves are perfectly fine.

There's been testing and testing shows that due to our high stat bases it takes equally as high stat mods to show true increases in your performance.

If we were sitting at XI numbers (i.e Stat bases of 5 - 80, rather than 200+) it would be a lot more balanced and noticeable. People are still in their "nothing in this game is good/works" mode of thinking even though they've made strides in correcting that.

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I can't believe that nobody had said this already!

Do people honestly if you expect to increase their stats by 1% and have it increase their damage by 10%...

Looking back at the OPs data, going from weathered to verdant is an INT of increase of about 1% and a m.att increase of about 2%, the average damage increased by something in the region of 3%

I honestly cant see how this is broken.

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

I can't believe that nobody had said this already!

Do people honestly if you expect to increase their stats by 1% and have it increase their damage by 10%...

Looking back at the OPs data, going from weathered to verdant is an INT of increase of about 1% and a m.att increase of about 2%, the average damage increased by something in the region of 3%

I honestly cant see how this is broken.

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End of thread. Stats are funky because you're only adding a small % to what you already have. I agree it's silly that the damage of a rank 1 scepter vs a rank 50 is so small but that's because our stat pools are so big. From doing ifrit with no double melded gear to doing it with double melded magic acc/int/attack/etc I can tell you that increasing ALL of these stats has made a very visible difference. At the start my resists were high and I was doing anywhere from 600-700 a combo, now my resists are floored and I do anywhere from 850-950+ per combo(and that's still missing a double meld for crit potency).

The stats work. You just need to spend a lot to increase them. Is this right? Well that's a whole different story. Perhaps their reasoning for making stats the way they are was because of the possibility of 3-4x melds and people having the ability really boost their stats, even if it's incredibly costly.

Edit: Also kinda silly to complain about damage for a class that currently can out burst any class in the game right now and having you're only limiting factor be mp(convert coming) and enmity/dying.

The mages arguing that weapons ARENT a problem are honestly shocking me.


The weapons BEFORE were much better designed. (Before the overhaul) Instead of even having melee stats the stats on mage weapons were Macc Matk Mcrit.

And yes, your weapon SHOULD be incredibly important as a caster, It's your "Focus" which can greatly increases the potency of your spells.


Something's wrong when the "Best weapons" of the game are arguably worse than some of the level 30 weapons.



Fix mage weapons plz, thx.