Anyone Else Find Sprint No Longer Using TP Making Tanks Even Worse?

If from the start of the dungeon the tank is speeding off, then you probably don't have time to stop and type. Swiftcast Eos and follow them as soon as they start moving.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

I absolutely love it when tanks properly use sprint, and great tanks will always remember SCH's like to prebuff with Aldo and Excog before they sprint off to aggro the mobs.

---

As SCH pre-Stormblood I was already timing my Adlo for the next pull to be applied just as the last mob from previous trash is dying. That way there is no downtime.

Regardless, there are ways to adjust to a sprint-happy tank. I was surprised when I had one for my first ever level 70 dungeon (as WHM). Panicked a bit, if I'm honest, but managed to keep up just fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tridus

*Start Casting Protect*
*Tank Sprints off*
*Sigh* Gonna be one of those days.

It's definitely worse now than it used to be. At least before if they ran away, you could use Sprint as a gap closer. When they use it? GG.

---

YES! THIS! ALL OF THIS!!! Jesus Tap dancing Christ why do tanks sprint off at the start of a dungeon before getting protect?! I even once had a tank ask me why didn't I cast protect on him after he had sprinted off. His swift death from lack of heals was my answer to that question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evumeimei

As SCH pre-Stormblood I was already timing my Adlo for the next pull to be applied just as the last mob from previous trash is dying. That way there is no downtime.

---

The problem is when tanks speed off while the last mob is on 20% or so. It happens more often than I'd like to see when playing melee dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunspawn

The problem is when tanks speed off while the last mob is on 20% or so. It happens more often than I'd like to see when playing melee dps.

---

I play relatively a lot and have a lot of classes at 70. The amounts of times I have seen a tank do this in my 3 years of playing, I could count them on one hand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunspawn

The problem is when tanks speed off while the last mob is on 20% or so. It happens more often than I'd like to see when playing melee dps.

---

I'm guilty of this...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunspawn

The problem is when tanks speed off while the last mob is on 20% or so. It happens more often than I'd like to see when playing melee dps.

---

OMG this. Then they drag the damned thing along with them rather than letting us finish it off and start a new pull.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evumeimei

If from the start of the dungeon the tank is speeding off, then you probably don't have time to stop and type. Swiftcast Eos and follow them as soon as they start moving.

---

I don't need to stop to type with a macro? If I swift summon my EOS, that means I'll have to hard cast Protect. My Protect is macro'd meaning every time I use Protect my words always play in party chat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

protect macro that says, "Casting Protect, Please don't sprint off yet".

---

Tanks don't run off without waiting for buffs out of malice, people can be forgetful, and saying "Please" can go a long way. In fact, I've seen a noticeable difference ever since I started using it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadowblind

I'll never understand why a tank would use sprint in the first place in a dungeon after aggroing a mob.

---

Came here to say this. There's no point in the tank running ahead. It won't speed up the dungeon run, because you'll still have to wait for the rest of the party to catch up and kill the mobs you pulled, and even if you aren't pulling anything, you'll still have to stand and wait at the next boss encounter until the rest of the party arrives. No point whatsoever sprinting in dungeons unless you need to catch up to the party or avoid a mad AOE spam.

Just to make it clear to all the casual scrubs here.
Its not about speeding the dungeon time.
Its about avoiding as many auto hits as possible while pulling for larger mobs. (you hit run as soon as you pulled the first mobs) And that my DDs can keep their stack and buffs up. (Depends on dungeons and if a boss or mobs is coming next)

On the other side i have seen some tanks just not waiting for protes and waisting their run cd to get to a mob etc. This is very suboptimal!
Same for healers who are just too slow like they had valium with milk. Dont sleep! You have enough instant heals (oGCD) to top a Tank up if you didnt pay attention.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

I don't need to stop to type with a macro? If I swift summon my EOS, that means I'll have to hard cast Protect. My Protect is macro'd meaning every time I use Protect my words always play in party chat.

Tanks don't run off without waiting for buffs out of malice, people can be forgetful, and saying "Please" can go a long way. In fact, I've seen a noticeable difference ever since I started using it.

---

I had the same result. Macroed in "Casting Protect, please stay close! :)" Had a tank run off, see that, and run *back* to be in the cast. A little bit of polite communication goes a long way.

It definitely empowers terrible tanks to be even worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tridus

I had the same result. Macroed in "Casting Protect, please stay close! :)" Had a tank run off, see that, and run *back* to be in the cast. A little bit of polite communication goes a long way.

---

90% of healers buff Protect at the beginning of a dungeon, it's a well-known fact by now. It's awful behaviour to just sprint away as soon as the barrier falls, but there are so many idiots like that around lately it's not even funny.

I find the "problem" is that there is a subset of players who still use sprint as if we were still in heavensward. When a skill like sprint or even cleric stance is adjusted, the player must adjust their playstyle as well. Sprint is no longer a catch-up button for healers, it's a keep-up button.

@OP
There is little reason for a healer to fall behind. you are faced towards the tank and can see him start to move. You can see his character model sprint, the sprint icon in the party window, and probably have him targeted showing another visible icon for sprinting... You missed all of these, likely being fixated on your chat window... Then blame the entire situation on the tank for not taking the initiative to look backwards? That's not right lol.

If the tank is rushing ahead of you, let him/her die because of it. Whatever happens after that, who cares. Someone will end up learning not to do it next time, whether it be the idiot tank or you. Common sense. You guys are making something out of nothing.

Sorry you went through this, I wouldn't say sprint made tanks even worse. They just use what's available to them. They're in a rush, for no good reason half the time. No different them rushing off now than it was when I was using StoneSkin II and they'd haul butt.

Problem was there too, just in a different way. It's a player thing, a rushing thing. For their own reasons. Half the time it's not a good one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadowblind

I'll never understand why a tank would use sprint in the first place in a dungeon after aggroing a mob. Just run with your team . . . problem (mostly) solved.

---

This is true, stay with the group and run the dungeon. I believe people want to rush it because they're tired of running roulettes. If that's the case, stand back and do something else. I just got back from a month or so break. When you take out the mentality of "I need to have everything 100% ..100% of the time." it's so very relaxing, and fun.

These new dungeons are set up really well, and if anything shows that we need a QoL patch for the older dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

The tank asked if he could chain pull and I said yes and I quickly explained that I was changing fairy because I didn't need the extra heals on bosses.

---

Well for that one I'd blame you and not the tank since you've said yes. Sure after you've told him to wait for pet switching but a tank won't always spend his pulling time reading chat while pulling especialy if they asked you if they could pull and you said YES.

If it was all said in 1 single sentence your tank would probably had waited for you to pet switch.

I mean what do you want more from your tank then asking you if your confortable with a situation ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

90% of healers buff Protect at the beginning of a dungeon, it's a well-known fact by now. It's awful behaviour to just sprint away as soon as the barrier falls, but there are so many idiots like that around lately it's not even funny.

---

I think you are being a little bit bitter. As a tank, I will attest to having runs where I will absent mindedly start going at the beginning only to see the healer cast protect and think "Oh yeah, I forgot about protect". What is awful behavior is treating tanks like they are all arrogant and don't listen, it doesn't do well for the tank-healer relationship. As Tridus said, a little bit of polite communication goes a long way, no matter who you are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ragnah

(you hit run as soon as you pulled the first mobs)
...
On the other side i have seen some tanks just not waiting for protes and waisting their run cd to get to a mob etc. This is very suboptimal!

---

If you're out of combat, the sprint lasts twice as long.
You should be sprinting before you engage, not after.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ragnah

Just to make it clear to all the casual scrubs here.
Its not about speeding the dungeon time.
Its about avoiding as many auto hits as possible while pulling for larger mobs. (you hit run as soon as you pulled the first mobs) And that my DDs can keep their stack and buffs up. (Depends on dungeons and if a boss or mobs is coming next)

On the other side i have seen some tanks just not waiting for protes and waisting their run cd to get to a mob etc. This is very suboptimal!
Same for healers who are just too slow like they had valium with milk. Dont sleep! You have enough instant heals (oGCD) to top a Tank up if you didnt pay attention.

---

Black Dynamite!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by winsock

There is little reason for a healer to fall behind. you are faced towards the tank and can see him start to move. You can see his character model sprint, the sprint icon in the party window, and probably have him targeted showing another visible icon for sprinting... You missed all of these, likely being fixated on your chat window... Then blame the entire situation on the tank for not taking the initiative to look backwards? That's not right lol.

---

Imagine we just did a boss fight and the healer popped sprint during the fight and the tank didn't. After the fight the tank decides to pop sprint to aggro mobs while the healer's sprint is on cooldown. I'm not saying it's always the tanks fault, because healers should always be popping sprint to keep up, but sometimes that just isn't possible to do because of the cooldown timer and tanks need to have some situational awareness.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

Imagine we just did a boss fight and the healer popped sprint during the fight and the tank didn't. After the fight the tank decides to pop sprint to aggro mobs while the healer's sprint is on cooldown. I'm not saying it's always the tanks fault, because healers should always be popping sprint to keep up, but sometimes that just isn't possible to do because of the cooldown timer and tanks need to have some situational awareness.

---

In which dungeon boss fight are you required to use sprint just before the fight ends? If you had to use sprint right before the end, it was likely because of a mistake you made.

I'm not saying that a tank shouldn't wait. If a tank can prevent a wipe/death, they should prevent it. However, the OP is solely blaming tanks for this. The reality of this situation is that tanks are not getting worse. Healers just no longer have a guaranteed accident forgiveness cushion if they don't pay attention and fall behind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by winsock

In which dungeon boss fight are you required to use sprint just before the fight ends? If you had to use sprint right before the end, it was likely because of a mistake you made.

---

I never said you were required to use sprint for any dungeon boss fight, the point of my post was to let tanks know that this is a multiplayer game and you can't just ignore the rest of the party. The same goes for every other role, everyone needs to have a some amount of situational awareness. Maybe RL stuff happens and distracts the healer for a few seconds like a cat jumping on a keyboard, or maybe their sprint is on cooldown, the reasoning doesn't matter, both tanks and healers and even the DPS need to pay attention to each others current situation. Instead of blaming an individual by saying, "we wiped because of a mistake you made, you shouldn't have used sprint during the boss fight." People can instead take group responsibility without pointing fingers at each other.

Part 2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

So I would say it made a lot of tanks play worse, but the tanks that do use sprint well make them play MUCH better.

---

I think OP is blaming tanks for this like you said, which goes back to my previous point of taking group responsibility for errors being made on both sides, but at the same time I think he is making some valid points. I don't entirely agree with him, but I see his point of view and the point he is trying to make.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tridus

I had the same result. Macroed in "Casting Protect, please stay close! :)" Had a tank run off, see that, and run *back* to be in the cast. A little bit of polite communication goes a long way.

---

I... I think I may have been that tank? I remember macro like that! Although, that was more a "Right! Forgot she hadn't cast Protect yet"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

the point of my post was to let tanks know that this is a multiplayer game and you can't just ignore the rest of the party.
...
Maybe RL stuff happens and distracts the healer for a few seconds like a cat jumping on a keyboard...

---

As I said before, if the tank can prevent the wipe/deaths they should.

The problem with your logic is that you are blaming the tank for ignoring the party by not adjusting for the distracted healer, and immediately make excuses for the healer when they ignore the party. What if a tank doesn't see the healer fall behind and can't compensate for the healer's negligence because the tank was partially distracted by something in RL like a cat?

Why is the "point of your post" to let tanks know they can't ignore the party, instead of letting healers know they can't ignore the party?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I... I think I may have been that tank? I remember macro like that! Although, that was more a "Right! Forgot she hadn't cast Protect yet"

---

Oh cool. :D

I believe that almost every time it happens it's because someone forgot about it, like you said. If you're not healing that dungeon, it's easy to forget its there because you never have to think about it. Pretty happy to say that zero people have run off and missed Protect since I added that in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by winsock

What if a tank doesn't see the healer fall behind..

---

It's called having situational awareness, if you want to be a good player you need to have it. You don't even need to turn your camera around to look as you can just peek at your minimap for the other players positions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by winsock

The problem with your logic is that you are blaming the tank for ignoring the party by not adjusting for the distracted healer?

---

I never blamed only the tanks, please actually read my posts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

...taking group responsibility for errors being made on both sides.

---

If you want to point fingers and only blame the healer for the tank sprinting off and dying when the healers sprint is on cooldown, go ahead. Personally, I'll lay blame at both the healer and tanks feet as they both share part of the blame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

It's called having situational awareness, if you want to be a good player you need to have it. You don't even need to turn your camera around to look as you can just peek at your minimap for the other players positions.

---

Alternatively, the healer could keep up.

Quote:

---

I never blamed only the tanks, please actually read my posts.

---

I am referring to: "the point of my post was to let tanks know that this is a multiplayer game and you can't just ignore the rest of the party"
Why tanks?

Quote:

---

If you want to point fingers and only blame the healer for the tank sprinting off and dying when the healers sprint is on cooldown, go ahead. Personally, I'll lay blame at both the healer and tanks feet as they both share part of the blame.

---

Personally, I don't think it's right to blame the tank for failing to adjust for the healer's mistake. Just like I won't blame a healer if a dps dies to avoidable dmg.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by winsock

Alternatively, the healer could keep up.

---

Actually, when a tank is using sprint and the healer doesn't have it up it's simply not possible to "keep up".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by winsock

Why tanks?

---

I'm convinced you didn't read my post except for the very first sentence before posting your outrage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

The same goes for every other role, everyone needs to have a some amount of situational awareness.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by winsock

Personally, I don't think it's right to blame the tank for failing to adjust for the healer's mistake. Just like I won't blame a healer if a dps dies to avoidable dmg.

---

That comparison isn't even relevant, if you want to falsely believe that everything is the healers fault when a tank sprints off ignoring that the healer is having trouble keeping up because sprint was on cooldown and dies alone because of it, go ahead.

Winsock if you want to have an intellectually honest debate, I'm down for that. However, I am not solely blaming tanks so please stop taking my quotes out of context and read my entire message please. If a tank sprints off and dies alone because the healer couldn't keep up, it's the healers fault for not keeping up and the tanks fault for ignoring that his healer was falling far behind. I'm not laying blame solely on the tanks and to imply that I am doing so, is incredibly intellectually dishonest. I honestly can't even remember the last time I wiped in a 4 man dungeon, but this idea that everything is always the healers fault from your own perspective is an incredibly disgusting attitude to have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by winsock

Personally, I don't think it's right to blame the tank for failing to adjust for the healer's mistake.

---

This is a team based game, not a 1 man solo show. If a tank decides to sprint off solo and die, because the healers sprint was on cooldown or maybe because the healer popped sprint late, tanks also have a responsibility to pay attention to their group. Just as the rest of the group needs to pay attention to the tank. I've made my stance abundantly clear, so I'm leaving this thread now, have fun taking my posts out of context again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

Winsock if you want to have an intellectually honest debate, I'm down for that.
...
If a tank sprints off and dies alone because the healer couldn't keep up, it's the healers fault for not keeping up and the tanks fault for ignoring that his healer was falling far behind.

---

Okay, so intellectual debate. Should a player be blamed for failing to correct a mistake made by another player? In my opinion, no. If the mistake is corrected, that is icing on the cake.

Here is a scenario that isn't exactly common, but certainly happens enough to be used as an example:
A tank begins a big pull, tagging mobs along the way. A DPS pulls one of the mobs off the tank, and the tank will not be able to regain threat via a ranged ability. This is fairly 'normal' within the scope of issues that can potentially happen, and most DPS know that they can drop the mob off on the tank at the end of the pull to recover without any significant issues should they accidentally pull.

The tank is faced with a decision. Do they stop the pull short and backtrack a bit to recover the dropped add? Or do they assume the DPS will correct their mistake themselves? The DPS isnt currently moving, but that isn't a reliable indicator. Sometimes the DPS just wants to use XYZ ability before continuing. The tank decides the DPS probably knows how to correct their mistake and continues the pull normally.

The healer notices that distance has increased between one of the dps and the tank. The healer knows for sure that the tank will die if they don't follow, but that the dps might okay. The DPS may end up pulling the mob to the group, but even if they dont, they might be able to take it solo and not need a healer, so the healer decides to follow the tank.

Several seconds pass, the DPS dies, but the pull is ultimately successful, despite being slower having only 1 dps.

========
In my opinion, the DPS is the only one at fault here. When this happens in game, I dont make an issue of it, but inform the DPS that if they do accidently pull, they can pull the mob to the tank to recover.

In no way would I fault the healer or the tank for the dps dying, and dont believe the dps has any justification in crying "where were my heals?" or "why didn't you hold threat?"

Do you think the tank and healer hold blame in this scenario?