Why are RDMs so scared of SMN being able to heal?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raiya

I think the point has been wholly missed here entirely.

---

Yeah, I agree. For the longest time, SMN has been lugging around this appendix from ACN and were content with the excuse that hey, it's a healing spell. They're powered by MND, so OF COURSE it's going to suck on an INT-based job.

Then along comes RDM, with a cure based on INT... It's not unreasonable for SMN to ask, "If RDM has a cure based on INT, why can't Physick work the same way for SMN?"

It's irritating that SE, in "cleaning up" SMN, left two terrible abilities (Physick and Tri-Bind) while removing one that was actually useful (Sustain).

Really, I'd say that the best possible solution would be for SMN to have a job trait that turns Physick into Sustain. I think that'd solve most folks' complaints.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Then along comes RDM, with a cure based on INT... It's not unreasonable for SMN to ask, "If RDM has a cure based on INT, why can't Physick work the same way for SMN?"

---

It's unreasonable given that from the second RDM was even mentioned to be in the game, it should have been known that they'd have some form of healing. That's what RDM does. It's the jack of all trades, master of none job. RDM not having potent healing would be like DRG not having jumps. It's part of the class identity.

Remember that first and foremost, this is a Final Fantasy game, and it takes its lore somewhat seriously

Red Mage here, don't care if SMN were to get a decent heal -shrug- That being said, why do you want an offheal instead of Sustain back. And Rubiss in particular, why are you apparently so scared of RDM having more utility? It's traditional that RDM has a more varied spread of abilities. Heck once 3.0 landed I barely saw any SMN use physick outside of 50 content and below, and where were these cries from BLMs when their cross class Physick was suddenly even more useless? Seems like sour grapes and poor understanding of job mythology between games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vexander

Its the old entitlement issue all over again. Hardcore Min-Max types (BLM/SMN) don't believe the filthy casuals (RDM) should have access to the same content as them (competitive damage).

---

it was more of a rhetorical question to wind a few people up cos of all the nerf requests about the rdm. The main focus of stormblood was fixing the power gap between casuals and hardcores which seems that not everyone understood and we got 2 new classes too. They usually have a problem or two with new classes which may need changes but not to the point people are complaining as much as this.

I never did like how summoner was done because the class that i believe should be the only one with summons is necromancer but thats my opinion. black mage was pretty fun though especially with the old flare.

following link is pretty amusing https://youtu.be/dybFvTcAOf4

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vorx

Setup right yes, everytime i'm teamed up with one i outdo the BLM. In fact normally myself and the Tank are the top damage outputs.

---

You are teamed up with bad blms is all, lol

Having all three (BLM, RDM, and SMN) at 70, I don't see any issues with SMN being able to heal better with physick.

As an x-SMN turned RDM I would be more then happy to let Physick be INT based for SMN like it is for RDM. SMN having useless heal is just wrong. It is a waste of a button for SMN and all abilities for each class should be usefull in some way, even moves like tether (sighs)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlphaFox

I would just like to say, as a RDM I don't care about healing or if a SMN had strong heals anyway (Maybe they could buff potency when used on own pet?) but seeing as we are marked into the DPS category us having to spend Dualcast or time healing and raising is time I'd rather spend attacking. Yeah, glad we have it if need be but would prefer not to have to if it can be helped. How I felt back in 2.X when SMN was my main, sure I can raise if need be but that is less damage I am doing because someone messed up.

Not sure how to word this in a polite way so meh :P

---

The thing about raising someone is you overall group DPS is lower if you don't so it makes the little bit of extra DPS you get practically worthless. I'm not saying delaying to get to a good spot in the rotation isn't valid just ignoring the overall effect of a down party member isn't good.

I don't really care about SMN being able to heal as well as RDM. I just want to be able to heal my egi like I used to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurando

In FFXI Summoners were able to cast Regen on the party so them having healing capabilities is nothing new. Therefore the healing product is not because they share with SCH, but because lore permits it.

---

You guys really should stop using FFXI to justify things that are against common FF lore/concept.
If something is true ONLY on FFXI, then it should not be used as an argument regarding FFXIV, that is apart from FFXI. Actually, proximity with FFXI was one of the main problems with 1.0, and the game has since strived to be DISTANT from it. Stop bringing FFXI to the table since it doesn't add anything to the discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Yeah, I agree. For the longest time, SMN has been lugging around this appendix from ACN and were content with the excuse that hey, it's a healing spell. They're powered by MND, so OF COURSE it's going to suck on an INT-based job.

Then along comes RDM, with a cure based on INT... It's not unreasonable for SMN to ask, "If RDM has a cure based on INT, why can't Physick work the same way for SMN?"
It's irritating that SE, in "cleaning up" SMN, left two terrible abilities (Physick and Tri-Bind) while removing one that was actually useful (Sustain).

---

It is unreasonable. Like I posted in another thread, the only reason SMN has Physick and raise is because it shares a base class with a healing job, which needs said spells at low levels. SE can't remove those from SMN without hurting SCH. It's their awkward dual job system. You're basically using spells you shouldn't be using or having in your hotbars (except for raise I guess), yet SMNs are asking for it to be buffed/changed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Really, I'd say that the best possible solution would be for SMN to have a job trait that turns Physick into Sustain. I think that'd solve most folks' complaints.

---

Now this is actually a good idea.

OT: As a RDM, I don't care if RDM gets its heal removed or if SMN gets a proper heal based on INT for physick, in fact I wish they would had given us an actual useful skill, it's a waste of job ability slot. Its only purpose is to make people feel like they're playing a real hybrid RDM from past games instead of just a pure caster dps, which we actually are. I just find it silly the reasons SMNs want a heal on par with RDMs when the actual issue is the removal of Sustain, which everyone agrees SE shouldn't have done that.

Add a SMN trait to convert Physic to Sustain.... problem solved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

Its only purpose is to make people feel like they're playing a real hybrid RDM from past games instead of just a pure caster dps, which we actually are.

---

Except that a RDM is not a pure dps class, this was made clear at the live letter, so you are wrong there. You know, a BLM is a pure dps class, and their damage output potential should reflect this over the other caster classes. I really hope the update will reflect the variety in caster classes (better) again tomorrow. Let's see! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eschaton

Except that a RDM is not a pure dps class, this was made clear at the live letter, so you are wrong there. You know, a BLM is a pure dps class, and their damage output potential should reflect this over the other caster classes. I really hope the update will reflect the variety in caster classes (better) again tomorrow. Let's see! :)

---

Exactly. RDM is not meant to be a pure DPS class, sorry to bust your bubble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eschaton

Except that a RDM is not a pure dps class, this was made clear at the live letter, so you are wrong there. You know, a BLM is a pure dps class, and their damage output potential should reflect this over the other caster classes. I really hope the update will reflect the variety in caster classes (better) again tomorrow. Let's see! :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Exactly. RDM is not meant to be a pure DPS class, sorry to bust your bubble.

---

Yes, and no. Pure DPS when we aren't needed to save the day(happened to me over the weekend).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avatre

Yes, and no. Pure DPS when we aren't needed to save the day(happened to me over the weekend).

---

I was able to heal the entire party through the last boss of Shisui of the Violet Tides a week ago because the healer went AFK without telling anyone and got locked outside the boss room

I think we've all voiced the same request of Sustain needing to come back desperately, but I'm in the boat that the minor edge in support Resurrection and Physic gave was a major facet of why I liked the job.

"Oh no the healers are down!"
"I'll save em!"
*swift-rez-aetherflow mp back-physic tank*
And we beat the boss.

This happened many times, and it felt very good, but SE thinks I'm playing SMN wrong now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eschaton

Except that a RDM is not a pure dps class, this was made clear at the live letter, so you are wrong there. You know, a BLM is a pure dps class, and their damage output potential should reflect this over the other caster classes. I really hope the update will reflect the variety in caster classes (better) again tomorrow. Let's see! :)

---

Oh sorry I forgot their 3 melee hits after some time charging gauge. >______>. Yes, we're pure caster dps. There's not a single reason why we would heal in a fight. RDM is suposed to do a bit of everything but in XIV they can't without breaking the trinity, so they gave players a heal spell that they should never use, we're just dps.

i have literally never met anyone ingame who was a redmage who was afraid that Summoners can heal.

Is this really a thing or a troll post?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

There's not a single reason why we would heal in a fight.

---

Healer dies, tank needs healing, only RDM is alive that can use a healing spell...there is a reason right there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annah

i have literally never met anyone ingame who was a redmage who was afraid that Summoners can heal.

Is this really a thing or a troll post?

---

Most likely troll post. I couldn't care less if SMN can heal similar/better/worse/not at all like a RDM. I rarely need to use Vercure, but when I do it's usually just once because the healer(s) are resurrecting.

Why do dramatic kids make up problems like this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avatre

Healer dies, tank needs healing, only RDM is alive that can use a healing spell...there is a reason right there.



Most likely troll post. I couldn't care less if SMN can heal similar/better/worse/not at all like a RDM. I rarely need to use Vercure, but when I do it's usually just once because the healer(s) are resurrecting.

---

There is something very wrong if healer dies in 4man content and requires RDM to heal it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

There is something very wrong if healer dies in 4man content and requires RDM to heal it.

---

Lag spike, power outage causing the healer to DC - but dies before the DC goes all the way through, inattention, trying to DPS and not move out of AoE, tank pointing cleave monsters towards party...there are numerous reasons why a healer can die in 4man content.
Normally when I need to heal it's 8man, and both healers are dead/in process of being resurrected. Some people are just slow to react to insta-kill mechanics. Seen it lots in older content(Keeper of the Lake comes to mind).

Quote:

---

"Yeah, I understand the argument. With Dual Cast and the kind of healing they can do. When both healers are down and the Red Mage waltz in and saves the day. But, listen, Summoner players, listen okay? Red Mage can raise, okay? And Black Mage, nothing, okay? That's why we have jobs, okay?"

---

I have to wonder... if the logic was that SMN should never use their heal spell; why give SMN a heal spell at all?

I mean the entire mantra of 4.0 has been "reduce the clutter, consolidate the skills"; and yet here, one of SMN's precious skill list entries contains a skill that is literally unusable. And this apparently came at the cost of Sustain, which was the SMN's pet heal skill and thus very important and relevant!

If the heal is there on behalf of SCH, why not just add it to the SCH spell list? - It's not like ACN can queue as healer anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

If the heal is there on behalf of SCH, why not just add it to the SCH spell list? - It's not like ACN can queue as healer anyway.

---

Because low level content exists, and SCH gets synced down. You want a healer in your run without heals and raise? Healers get their main important tools at low level for a reason. And they can't remove it from SMN's list without hurting SCH, and they can't move it to SCH's job spells instead of base class without screwing SCH over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

Because low level content exists, and SCH gets synced down. You want a healer in your run without heals and raise? Healers get their main important tools at low level for a reason. And they can't remove it from SMN's list without hurting SCH, and they can't move it to SCH's job spells instead of base class without screwing SCH over.

---

I mean, jobs that start at 30/50 have their job skills listed as being acquired at lower levels so they can participate in synced content. I don't see why SCH can't have the same

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

Because low level content exists, and SCH gets synced down. You want a healer in your run without heals and raise? Healers get their main important tools at low level for a reason. And they can't remove it from SMN's list without hurting SCH, and they can't move it to SCH's job spells instead of base class without screwing SCH over.

---

Sure they can. All SE needs to do is change Physick to Sustain at level 30 when you pick Summoner path. When running lower level content where Physick is effective switch it back. Nothing new if you look at how Bio and Miasma work in 4.0 with II and III sharing the same buttons.

Honestly I just don't want to have skills that are basically useless, and SMN Physick is one of those skills. If you're not going to make it useful then just remove it from SMN's skill pool, oh and give them back Sustain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vrankyl

"You're a pet job, so manage your pets."

How are we supposed to manage said pets when we can't heal them if they get hit by something? Part of managing your pet is the ability to keep it alive, but if you don't have that then you can't actually manage them. Healers can't see pet health bars so more often than not Egis don't get healed aside from AoEs. If they are honestly afraid of SMNs being able to do things they can't because Titan-egi + sustain then nerf the healing sustain does, but at least give us SOME way to keep our pet alive. It was easier to level as SCH because Titan-egi died if more than one mob looked at it, which is just ridiculous.

---

While we're at it, give MCH a heal to keep our turrets alive too lol :p

If you think that every job within a role should be able to do the exact same thing everyone else can maybe you should play something else because an RPG with class fantasy clearly isn't your thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zfz

"You're talking about Summoner, yeah?"
"Yes, Summoner."
"Red Mage. Born from both white magic and black magic..."

---

This argument shows that Yoshida doesn't know a thing about Summoners, and that would explain why Summoners are so...problematic.

Summoners in Final Fantasy nearly in all of their incarnations had healing. Over the years, summons were Sylph (probably where Scholars got their fairy from, especially since in Final Fantasy Tactics Fairy is an actual healing summon while Sylph is a silencing summon, yeah, Eos is Fairy and Selene is Sylph), Moogle, Unicorn, Phoenix, Kirin.
In addition to that, Rydia did start with White Magic, but she lost it. However, Garnet and Eiko from Final Fantasy IX and Yuna from Final Fantasy X were the parties White Mages in addition to being summoners. There were no HP healing summons in Final Fantasy IX (though there was Phoenix, with power of revival), and due to the way Summons worked in X there was no party-healing summon either (but ALL summons had the ability to learn ALL healing spells they could use on themselves).

In other words, Summoners were in nearly ALL games more than capable of healing, either through summon or through their innate white magic affinity. Giving a Summoner the ability to heal is by no means a stretch. And if they do have that skill...that should have been done. It's a horrid design to have a character with a healing spell that cannot heal...

Yuna(early to mid game, after that she can be whatever she wants), Eiko and Garnet besides are a mix of WHM and Green Mage with the capacity to summon Eidolons/Summons/Espers/Eions/Whatever the name.

As a RDM, I really don't care if Summoners can or not heal, but would be nice if they could heal their Egis when needed. Or maybe they could add lifesteal for the Egis when they attack.

I think the Devs plan to separate Summoners and Scholars one day, but to do that they might remove the healling capability of Summoners or add a new healing spell only for Summoners.