Getting Kicked as a Tank from Dungeons for Power Pulls! No more for me!

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Originally Posted by Adire

I had the OP in a dungeon the other day. We were in the Aery, the healer had ilvl 90-ish gear mostly and he complained about it the whole run despite the healer keeping him alive. They argued a lot, we got to the last boss, then he demanded we either kick the healer, kick him, or sit there and wait for the dungeon to time out. The healer told him to just finish the run because they didn't want to hurt us (the dps), he (the OP) refused.

The healer really should've had better gear, but they were getting the job done. And when he decided to hold the group hostage we decided to just kick him. Luckily we got a replacement tank instantly and cleared the dungeon. OP, you should work on your attitude.

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Well, gg TC.

Yeah, that's unacceptable behavior, even if they were undergeared.

Now, frankly, i90 is too low for Aery. But if they were able to keep the tank alive despite their low I-level, then hey. As long as you clear the dungeon. Now, if there were wipes and such, and if the healer could not keep him alive during even normal pulls, then yeah. A kick might have been warranted if the healer was preventing them from clearing the dungeon.

But this obviously was not the case, as they got clear to the last boss.

This horrible behavior by a terrible tank is in no way indicative of all tanks, and most of your better tanks will agree that this is just unacceptable behavior whatsoever.

I like tanks that do small pulls better. Most tanks I see that do huge pulls is under geared and you can't heal them fast enough or they use sprint and leave healer behind where can't target them with healing spells. But have seen a lot good tanks where have no problems with large pulls.

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Originally Posted by Spiroglyph

Boi if you got kicked for the same thing in over 20 duties I strongly suggest you think hard on whatever the hell it is you're doing :o

As I'm sure you are well aware, it takes more than one person to be able to kick a player from a duty, so in all those instances there were at least two people agreeing they'd be better off without you tanking.

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This has got to be the best sig ever

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

This has got to be the best sig ever

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Yep, and it exactly mirrors my thoughts. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been kicked from a DF group, in all my 3 years of playing. And I've done everything from small pulls to large pulls. This is making me think the OP is hiding something that suggests the real reason he got kicked.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Yeah, that's unacceptable behavior, even if they were undergeared.

Now, frankly, i90 is too low for Aery. But if they were able to keep the tank alive despite their low I-level, then hey. As long as you clear the dungeon. Now, if there were wipes and such, and if the healer could not keep him alive during even normal pulls, then yeah. A kick might have been warranted if the healer was preventing them from clearing the dungeon.

But this obviously was not the case, as they got clear to the last boss.

This horrible behavior by a terrible tank is in no way indicative of all tanks, and most of your better tanks will agree that this is just unacceptable behavior whatsoever.

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Now I'm not an amazing tank by any stretch of the imagination, but I agree it is unacceptable behaviour. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that tank should be reported to the GMs for play-related harassment. Sure, there might have been a few butt-clenching moments for me as a tank, but if you were getting me healed through the duty, even if you're undergeared, I'm fine with that. I would however suggest to improve their gear after dungeon though as i90 gear is cutting it a little too fine for The Aery, and beyond that is a complete no-go.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Final note - it's a team game. The goal is to finish the duty as quickly as possible, however that doesn't mean if you fail a pull you should quit, moan or point blame. Put those boots back on and adjust to the rest of your party.

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E-{bang}-xactly! If something goes wrong, I won't point blame. I will just say "Ok, that didn't work out as well as I had hoped, here's how I will prevent that happening next time" (actually had that in Doma Castle, I got a bit too eager on one of the pulls and it threw my SCH for a loop, just that one pull in particular, others of similar size were OK, I think it was the individual mobs involved that caused the problem), so I slowed down for that pull. After that, we were able to speed back up again, though both me and the healer had a few butt-clenching moments! But skillful healing on her part and passable use of defensive cooldowns on my part and no other deaths were had. So kudos to that healer, I pushed myself out of my comfort zone and you handled it amazingly!

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Originally Posted by Adire

I had the OP in a dungeon the other day. We were in the Aery, the healer had ilvl 90-ish gear mostly and he complained about it the whole run despite the healer keeping him alive. They argued a lot, we got to the last boss, then he demanded we either kick the healer, kick him, or sit there and wait for the dungeon to time out. The healer told him to just finish the run because they didn't want to hurt us (the dps), he (the OP) refused.

The healer really should've had better gear, but they were getting the job done. And when he decided to hold the group hostage we decided to just kick him. Luckily we got a replacement tank instantly and cleared the dungeon. OP, you should work on your attitude.

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Aha, that explains why he's getting kicks out the wazoo and I seem to have no problems. That's exactly it, since I take an encouraging and solutions-driven attitude to problems, people have no reason to kick me, because it drives a more positive attitude in. Someone has a signature with it in... Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. (I have to admit thinking of that has me laughing my head off)

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been kicked from a DF group, in all my 3 years of playing.

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While I don't tank- and I've been playing since 2.0 launch- I have never been kicked from a group which is why I'm always confused when it's the norm for some people.

There is a saying..

"If everyone else is a problem, then you're usually the problem". (Modified slightly to reduce vulgar language).

Not saying that you're a bad person, just that generally speaking if you are constantly running into issues, such as getting kicked, then you might want to consider what it is that you're actually doing that is not up to scratch.
Raging about it or declaring that everyone is wrong is not productive.
Step outside of your own perspective and have a look at what you're doing that could be the cause for these vote kicks.
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Some food for thought - Perhaps you're pulling the entire world, instead of pulling what is reasonably managable? Perhaps you're not dodging ground AoEs while getting pounded on by a bunch of mobs? Perhaps you're losing hate to the healer and they are dying?

General rule - if you're dying or wiping on pulls, then pull a little bit less next time.
It could be your fault, it could be the healer's fault, or it could be the DPS's fault for not zerging everything down fast enough.
Who's at fault shouldn't matter, but what should matter is adapting to what the party can seem to manage.

Not everyone should force themselves to play beyond their level. This doesn't just go for tanks but healers and DPS as well.
If they can't manage the bigger pulls, then they should speak up and ask for smaller ones.

Final note - it's a team game. The goal is to finish the duty as quickly as possible, however that doesn't mean if you fail a pull you should quit, moan or point blame. Put those boots back on and adjust to the rest of your party.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I had the OP in a dungeon the other day. We were in the Aery, the healer had ilvl 90-ish gear mostly and he complained about it the whole run despite the healer keeping him alive. They argued a lot, we got to the last boss, then he demanded we either kick the healer, kick him, or sit there and wait for the dungeon to time out. The healer told him to just finish the run because they didn't want to hurt us (the dps), he (the OP) refused.

The healer really should've had better gear, but they were getting the job done. And when he decided to hold the group hostage we decided to just kick him. Luckily we got a replacement tank instantly and cleared the dungeon. OP, you should work on your attitude.

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This dear OP is likely your problem.

It's not about your pulls, or your gear, or your CD usage but your attitude.

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

tank kick

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who cares you are a tank xD just requeue it will instant pop anyway.

have fun! hobbit

PS: i heal yesterday as SCH in lvl 61 dungeon with big pull and the PLD had full STR gear and i still was able to heal the tank while i did 1,3k dps.

That what we calling them now, power pulls? Sounds kind of me imo.

We're not in 3.x anymore, Toto.

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Sorry about that, folks. The point is this isn't Heavensward. SE made adjustments to a lot of our AoE abilities and upped the attack of dungeon enemies SPECIFICALLY to discourage would-be Supermen from trying to pull whole areas. As someone said earlier, respect the content.

So you lied about the 20 times thing and youre one of those people who tries to rush through dungeons and you pull too many enemies at once and cry about healers not being able to heal you?

You are 100 percent in the wrong. Good day sir.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been kicked from a DF group, in all my 3 years of playing.

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I can count the number of times I've been kicked on one hand as well. Hell, I can recount the exact circumstances around it for you right now. One of the Alexander(the one where you're in the rectangular room with the waves of adds spawning as the final battle in it), the queue popped faster than I had anticipated, as I was just about to go head to the washroom, and the second it started loading I informed them I would be back in like 2min. When I got back, I said back, and they had JUST started killing the second set of enemies before that add wave room. I helped kill them, went into the room, for some reason we ended up wiping...mostly. There was ONE person still in the room running around dodging/healing themselves, and when I said something about it everyone decided that they would chew me out and before I could say anything else I was kicked.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

We're not in 3.x anymore, Toto.
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not really anything special imo opinion if anything they hit just as hard, actually Id say some of the hw dungeons hit even harder, if you compare for instance dusk vigil to sirensong however u spell it. If you pull the first three adds plus that bear thing you very well could die as a tank pretty quickly, if you pull both bears and the other six adds you are def going to die for sure you can do huge pulls in siresong like its nothing. Shom al normal hits way harder than the level 63 dungeon with alot fewer adds plus poison the big pulls in the new 63 dont even require hg or living. The avery just pulling the five or six adds up to the gate, hit like a mac truck, I would say tho the first two large pulls in the new 65 dungeon hit pretty hard tho. If anything I feel like in sb its taking more adds to do just about the same amount of damage as some of the hw dungeons wiith fewer adds.

To avoid these issues i always ask in beginning of dungeon if they want "small, medium or big pulls" and its usually directed to healer.

I think the problem, in all likelihood, is that the OP's definition of a 'big pull' is way bigger than the rest of the groups. If the healer can't keep up with the damage you're taking, then that's the marker you should be aiming for, not your own lofty targets.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

We're not in 3.x anymore, Toto.

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Sorry about that, folks. The point is this isn't Heavensward. SE made adjustments to a lot of our AoE abilities and upped the attack of dungeon enemies SPECIFICALLY to discourage would-be Supermen from trying to pull whole areas. As someone said earlier, respect the content.

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This is a long standing misconception. The only reason stuff seems harder is due to our gear. People attempt to pull everything while still wearing Shire pieces in Doma. That got you killed in The Aery if you were rocking Ironworks. I have seen tanks do the Shisui mega pull in Slaying accessories or the Ala Mhigan mass pull and live just fine. As for aoe nerfs. That depends on the party comp. Samurai does hilariously high damage. And if you get a caster, stuff will go down fast.

As you say, it depends on the party makeup, their gear, and, I'd add, their skill. You have to adjust to what you have to work with. You can't go in with the preconceived decision to mass pull. IMO, you should start slow and work upwards as you see what the party can actually handle. Some parties can handle it; some cannot. And just because the last party you had could doesn't mean this one can.

If you are running levelling roulette there is always a chance of getting someone that is actually new or still not used to a certain job or mechanic.

As a main healer, I always check how my tank does at the start before deciding I have some window to try dps or not. Some new healers are still getting adjusted to when they need to pop cool downs, deal with aetherflows (SCHs) and such. Sometimes I also get tanks that say "yeah, I can big pull" but do not know certain mechanics that make those big pulls possible (like stuns and how many mobs you can pull at same time), or keep struggling with some BLM or RDM for aggro, which makes the healing part more tricky.

So I guess the keyword for a smooth run is to adjust gameplay according to each situation and party.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

As you say, it depends on the party makeup, their gear, and, I'd add, their skill. You have to adjust to what you have to work with. You can't go in with the pr.

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but some of the most fun pulls are at the beginning the baeslers wall comes to mind. Successfully pulling every add to the gate is super nice

People kicking a tank from roulettes 20 times in the last 2 weeks? #Idonotbelieveyou

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Originally Posted by Adire

I had the OP in a dungeon the other day. We were in the Aery, the healer had ilvl 90-ish gear mostly and he complained about it the whole run despite the healer keeping him alive. They argued a lot, we got to the last boss, then he demanded we either kick the healer, kick him, or sit there and wait for the dungeon to time out. The healer told him to just finish the run because they didn't want to hurt us (the dps), he (the OP) refused.

The healer really should've had better gear, but they were getting the job done. And when he decided to hold the group hostage we decided to just kick him. Luckily we got a replacement tank instantly and cleared the dungeon. OP, you should work on your attitude.

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tank was in their right to complain. having i90 gear is pretty bad even at 50. "getting the job done" is and has been a lame excuse to give people a free pass. Tanks can be hard to play more so on the NA data center with all the selfish attitudes around. Tank is the one putting their hp pool up against 3-20 mobs at a time and need healers up to the task. The healer shoulda been kicked for their gear. imo you and the healer had the attitude, not the tank. Try thinking about others for change, b ut ppl think tanks are all but useless with some of the shi i've seen.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

tank was in their right to complain. having i90 gear is pretty bad even at 50. "getting the job done" is and has been a lame excuse to give people a free pass. Tanks can be hard to play more so on the NA data center with all the selfish attitudes around

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Or you can do what tanks are meant to do: take it like a champ.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

tank was in their right to complain. having i90 gear is pretty bad even at 50. "getting the job done" is and has been a lame excuse to give people a free pass. Tanks can be hard to play more so on the NA data center with all the selfish attitudes around. Tank is the one putting their hp pool up against 3-20 mobs at a time and need healers up to the task. The healer shoulda been kicked for their gear. imo you and the healer had the attitude, not the tank. Try thinking about others for change, b ut ppl think tanks are all but useless with some of the shi i've seen.

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Tanks need to gauge their parties limitations and adjust accordingly. Can they pull 20 mobs and the healer handle it ok, or can they pull 20 mobs and the dps handle it ok. If they're not paying attention to the flow of the party and adapting then they're clearly pants on head retarded and deserve all the kicks; especially if they get toxic about something they don't like.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

tank was in their right to complain. having i90 gear is pretty bad even at 50. "getting the job done" is and has been a lame excuse to give people a free pass. Tanks can be hard to play more so on the NA data center with all the selfish attitudes around. Tank is the one putting their hp pool up against 3-20 mobs at a time and need healers up to the task. The healer shoulda been kicked for their gear. imo you and the healer had the attitude, not the tank. Try thinking about others for change, b ut ppl think tanks are all but useless with some of the shi i've seen.

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Yes, it's bad. But if it was really that bad he should've just left or kicked the healer and be done with it rather than complaining the whole run.

The fact that OP's been kicked 20 times as a tank says that the problem is probably the OP. Parties generally do not want to kick the tank.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

tank was in their right to complain. having i90 gear is pretty bad even at 50. "getting the job done" is and has been a lame excuse to give people a free pass. Tanks can be hard to play more so on the NA data center with all the selfish attitudes around. Tank is the one putting their hp pool up against 3-20 mobs at a time and need healers up to the task. The healer shoulda been kicked for their gear. imo you and the healer had the attitude, not the tank. Try thinking about others for change, b ut ppl think tanks are all but useless with some of the shi i've seen.

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I was on the tank's side until he started complaining after literally every pull and holding the group hostage. Me and the other DPS had nothing to do with the tank and healer's squabble and the dungeon was being completed, all we wanted was to finish and get out of there. The tank just had to deal with it for one more fight and he'd be done, but he chose to throw a tantrum and attempt to use wait times as leverage over us. The healer on the other hand was with us, just wanted to finish and be done and was being far more mature about the situation.

Also, I don't need lectured about the difficulties of being a tank. I have paladin at 70 and warrior and dark knight at 60. I do my fair share of tanking and don't feel the need to behave like the world revolves around me.

Kicking anyone in the run was unnecessary as we were moving along fine, albeit with slow pulls. The fact we cleared right after the tank got kicked proves he was in the wrong. The only reason we decided to kick him was because he was the obstacle in the way of completing the run because of his tantrum, not the healer.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Side note: If the healer met the requirements to get into the dungeon then their ilvl wasn't too low, even if some personally think it is.

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TBF I've queued into all of the below 60 leveling dungeons wearing level 1 glamour gear and gathering right side. I fixed my gear once I was inside, but non 50/60/70 dungeons don't even have an ilvl limit, as far as I'm aware.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

TBF I've queued into all of the below 60 leveling dungeons wearing level 1 glamour gear and gathering right side. I fixed my gear once I was inside, but non 50/60/70 dungeons don't even have an ilvl limit, as far as I'm aware.

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Oh, you're right. :eek:

I stand corrected, I assumed there was but I guess that's just for max level dungeons. I'll edit that part of my post. :)

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

tank was in their right to complain. having i90 gear is pretty bad even at 50. "getting the job done" is and has been a lame excuse to give people a free pass. Tanks can be hard to play more so on the NA data center with all the selfish attitudes around. Tank is the one putting their hp pool up against 3-20 mobs at a time and need healers up to the task. The healer shoulda been kicked for their gear. imo you and the healer had the attitude, not the tank. Try thinking about others for change, b ut ppl think tanks are all but useless with some of the shi i've seen.

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If iLVL 90 gear was getting the job done why does anyone have the right to complain? What good does it do anyone to replace a healer (the second hardest job to get to que of anything let alone dungeons that are already in progress) that can do the job with a healer that can do the job with better gear? Complaining about his gear when he is doing his job, which is keeping him alive, just wastes time. The tank was wasting everyone's time just to complain about nothing.


Even getting healers like myself who push DPS as hard as possible hardly speeds up a run more than a minute or two. The tank had zero right to complain if the job is getting done.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

Try thinking about others for change

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The tank was holding two people (DPS) hostage because of one (1) person [OP or the healer]. Think about what I bolded and quoted, and apply that to what happened.

AFAIK, tanks holding players hostage like this actually is a reportable offense and I have actually reported a tank back in ARR who, only because of slower DPS, sat down and demanded to be let go at the last boss. We said no. He continued to sit and demanded to be kicked. One of the DPS decided to just be rid of him and I reported him. GM responded with pleasantries telling me yah it sucked we'll look into it.

I had a lvl 43 Gladiator in one of my leveling Stone Vigil runs. We asked them about job stone etc. They didn't realize how much it would help. The SCH didn't pitch a fit, demanding to leave or go. We took it a bit slower and got it done. Was it a learning experience for them? Yes. Did we ask them to get their job stone? Yes. We didn't pitch a fit and demanded to be kicked.

If you want to leave, do it yourself.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Oh, you're right. :eek:

I stand corrected, I assumed there was but I guess that's just for max level dungeons. I'll edit that part of my post. :)

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Also Heavensward leveling dungeons don't have an item level requirement either. The Aery is one of these dungeons.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._ilvl_minimum/

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Oh, you're right. :eek:

I stand corrected, I assumed there was but I guess that's just for max level dungeons. I'll edit that part of my post. :)

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Yeah, I wouldn't pitch a fit if I got into a group with someone in i90 or lower so long as we could clear the run, whether that be through me adapting to the needs of the party(acting as a pseudo tank as SAM or NIN for instance when we got a tank that was far below me in gear) or something else. So long as we get it done, that's what matters.

NOW if they're being an active detriment, unable to keep people alive etc, then I'd be a tad miffed. Otherwise, I'd just stress the importance of getting better gear than go on my merry way.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

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I'm conflicted.

It's like, on the one hand I want to give you positive reinforcement for making your own comment about your own experiences...but on the other hand, this comment is so asinine.

Like, did you fail to see the part where OP acted like an entitled baby and held the party hostage? Sure, having i90 is lazy, but lazy =! asshole. According to Adire's post, the healer was "up to the task," they just had shitty gear.

...and yeah, you're right. Everyone must think tanks are totally useless. It's not like it's a requirement to have at least one in most content. Absolutely not one of the two jobs in super high demand at all times. What are you even on about?

After reading through this thread, I can see that OP's attitude is the reason for him being kicked. Granted, It would be a pain to go in a dunjin with a ilvl 90 healer, but my rule of thumb is, if my HP isn't 0, then everything is fine. I probably would suggest the healer to hit up some vendors afterwords afterwords atleast, just to make life easier him and everyone else in general.

I will give the OP two pieces of advice.
1. Change your attitude. Seriously, people would rather wait for a new Tank than to deal with with someone with a crappy attitude, especially if your being petty for small things.
2. Change your class. Take that with what you will, but unless you walked in someone elses shoes, IE healed big pulls, done positionals as a DPS, then you truly won't know how to properly play your class.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

tank was in their right to complain. having i90 gear is pretty bad even at 50. "getting the job done" is and has been a lame excuse to give people a free pass. Tanks can be hard to play more so on the NA data center with all the selfish attitudes around. Tank is the one putting their hp pool up against 3-20 mobs at a time and need healers up to the task. The healer shoulda been kicked for their gear. imo you and the healer had the attitude, not the tank. Try thinking about others for change, b ut ppl think tanks are all but useless with some of the shi i've seen.

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While I agree i90 is low and the tank had the right to complain, if the healer was doing his job I would be much more worried about that tank's bad attitude by holding the rest of the group hostage. If that healer pissed him so much he should have just left.

If I followed that point of view I should have kicked lots of tanks that joined my roulettes in the past just because I considered them undergeared and they would make my job as healer harder. Except for one case in which I remember it was really IMPOSSIBLE to keep up (tank had less hp than I had as SCH and I couldn't throw one Physick without having all mobs turn to kill me, the tank took the cue before we even said anything and abandoned the duty), most of the times we managed to finish the run and tanks were super cool with us telling they should get higher ilv.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

tank was in their right to complain. having i90 gear is pretty bad even at 50. "getting the job done" is and has been a lame excuse to give people a free pass. Tanks can be hard to play more so on the NA data center with all the selfish attitudes around. Tank is the one putting their hp pool up against 3-20 mobs at a time and need healers up to the task. The healer shoulda been kicked for their gear. imo you and the healer had the attitude, not the tank. Try thinking about others for change, b ut ppl think tanks are all but useless with some of the shi i've seen.

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I sided with the tank right up until he continuously whined about the healer's gear, and especially after waiting until the very last boss to make his threat. He knew precisely what he was doing and merely thought to waste the healer's time. If said person were purposefully trolling or being a twat, I happily encourage kicking them at that last second. This isn't such an example though. The healer likely didn't realize how much harder leveling dungeons get in the expansion. If it bothered said tank so much, either leave or kick them right away. Frankly, unless the healer was causing issues, I would rather tough out the run than wait for another healer.

As a healer, if the tank asks and I say yes for the power pull, and then turned out I can't handle it, or the tank can't handle it, or the DPS output of the party can't handle it, I say oops sorry, let's do smaller pull. No kicking the tank, because the tank DID ask first. Even if he fails or I fail, or something else fail, I honestly think that vote kick is unfair in this case.

I main a healer, I have all healers at 70...and I can't recall even one time I witnessed a tank getting removed just because he chain pulled.

Most of the time when I see a tank get kicked it's because they do something stupid like refuse to use their tank stance despite having very obvious aggro issues and having extremely spiky health...or some wiseguy in Brayflox with the novice hall gear. Sometimes these tanks were chain pulling, but they weren't removed for chain pulling, they were removed for making the instance a mess for everybody. Most dps and healers don't like when the tank's antics lead to everyone tanking.

OP if you're getting kicked often then you're doing something wrong. It's one thing to frequently encounter problematic players, it's another to drive people to kick you. Either your tanking needs work or your attitude does.

I always pull big and haven't got kicked so maybe you arnt managing CDs properly or not getting all the hate or something lol there is more to this story then we are getting....The only place I am not to keen on pulling big Is bardem

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Originally Posted by Aleczan

As a healer, if the tank asks and I say yes for the power pull, and then turned out I can't handle it, or the tank can't handle it, or the DPS output of the party can't handle it, I say oops sorry, let's do smaller pull. No kicking the tank, because the tank DID ask first.

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Thank you for being a really kind healer.
Even if I die, I apologies myself because I thought I could of handled it too.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Thank you for being a really kind healer.
Even if I die, I apologies myself because I thought I could of handled it too.

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Thanks. :D

Yes and sometimes I die, or I let the tank die (Benediction on the corpse, woo hoo!) and I said sorry. Most tanks are like "haha it's ok" or "do you want me to pull smaller or do we still want to give it another try?"

Alright, sometimes I run into a rude or a mean tank, and it leaves a bad taste. However, there's no reason to be angry or mean to everyone else. I like it very much when people try to communicate for party plan in the dungeon, it means they try and they want to cooperate. So, if we talk first, and if everyone is polite and kind, even if we fail, it's all good. And it leaves a happy memory.