Some interesting numbers on 4.0 BLM

Thanks for the rotation!
I tried it last night and ended up doing ALOT more damage with the added benefits of being able to move without fearing the loss of a Fire IV

Before I was doing around 3.5 - 3.6k dps in Omega2 after the change it was 4.1 - 4.2k.

Still pretty salty that a pseudo 3.0+4.0 rotation does more DPS than the harder and less lenient 4.0 rotation though.
Also pretty salty that alot of Statics aren't interested in BLMs

Also since this new rotation is much more lenient and 4.0 is only used with LL or Triple is there any reason to stack spell speed after getting about a 2.3s cast time on Fire 1?

I would just wait and see what the Patch Notes look like. Maybe SE changes a few things like Astral Fire duration which could change things.

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Originally Posted by Azyael

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I'm afraid we bring nothing noteworthy to a more serious group.
MNK and SAM put us in the dumpster in dps, RDM, BRD and even SMN beat us in utility, so...
Let's see if we're buffed so we can at least try to challenge SAM's spots.

Usually i don't reply in this forums, however this time its an intriguing discussion. so i have ran quite a few rotation until i settled with this one as an opener:
Pre B3->enoch->T3->swift B4->sharp->Ley->F3->triple->F4x2->F1->F4x4->F3 proc->convert->F4x2->B3 and than roll with 3.0 rotation. However after 2 fouls, the third one is usually still in progress by about 2 seconds so in that case i use the following rotation:
in UI3:
T3->B4->F3->F4->F4->swift+Flare->F4->B3->Foul->T3-B4->and than starting the semi opener combo.

by doing this you buy like 10 seconds time for your next foul and return to use the one that is ready quickly and start using the semi-opener. instead of using 6 fire 4's and fire. which generally takes longer and delays the use of Ley Lines and triple.
since i don't have the spreadsheet i don't know if this is actually a good response PPS wise.

P.S.
with semi-opener i mean:
sharp-ley-triple->F4x2->F1->F4x4->F3proc

There are a few errors in your math in the cast/recast times, and also you are not taking into account that Astral Fire 3 reduces Ice Spells Cast Time by 50%, and same applies to Umbral Ice and Fire Spells.

But even after fixing it the conclusion is similar. 4.x Rotation Is a tad lower than 3.x one, maybe tied up If we take into account you wont have Foul every time up. I would just clean up your calculation to make the post of even greater value

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Originally Posted by Elendil_Voronda

There are a few errors in your math in the cast/recast times, and also you are not taking into account that Astral Fire 3 reduces Ice Spells Cast Time by 50%, and same applies to Umbral Ice and Fire Spells.

But even after fixing it the conclusion is similar. 4.x Rotation Is a tad lower than 3.x one, maybe tied up If we take into account you wont have Foul every time up. I would just clean up your calculation to make the post of even greater value

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I am. That's why F3 and B3 come off with a 2.5second cast time. What do you mean by "recast times"? I didn't account for Swiftcast/Triple usage (they won't be up for every rotation, you probably want to save one of them to deal with mechanics, and yada yada).
I did not, truthfully, account for spell speed. But we're not in a secondary stat range where this is significant enough.
This is an honest question; if there's an error, I want to rectify it, but I need you to be a little bit more specific :(

I haven't played BLM since 3.x, but just want to give some feedback. Comparing "DPS" or pps between 3.x and 4.x is moot. It can be tempting and deceiving to compare them directly in isolation. SE will tweak potency numbers to balance the current state of the jobs relative to one another, not themselves into the past. So saying that 4.x has X pps more/less than 3.x can be deceiving without looking it within the context relative to the other jobs during their respective patches. That said, there is merit in stating that playing a BLM in 4.x is harder at the baseline than in 3.x.

Thanks for the post, looking forward to getting my hands on BLM in 4.x and seeing how it feels.

People aren't comparing numbers from 3.x to 4.x though, people compare the rotation we used in 3.x to the rotation everyone assumes SE had in mind when they designed 4.x.
The whole debate is about using or not using B4 to gain umbral hearts.

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Originally Posted by Oniji

I haven't played BLM since 3.x, but just want to give some feedback. Comparing "DPS" or pps between 3.x and 4.x is moot. It can be tempting and deceiving to compare them directly in isolation. SE will tweak potency numbers to balance the current state of the jobs relative to one another, not themselves into the past. So saying that 4.x has X pps more/less than 3.x can be deceiving without looking it within the context relative to the other jobs during their respective patches. That said, there is merit in stating that playing a BLM in 4.x is harder at the baseline than in 3.x.

Thanks for the post, looking forward to getting my hands on BLM in 4.x and seeing how it feels.

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I think you misunderstood the post. We aren't compared BLM PPS in 3.x to BLM PPS in 4.0. We are comparing the rotations we used in 3.x (F4-F4-F1-F4-F4) to the rotations provided in 4.0 (F4-F4-F4-F1-F4-F4-F4). And based on evidence, as long as SpS doesn't get too high, the 3.x rotation is a higher pps currently.

I will have 2000ish Spellspeed once I get my Omega pants. This should bump me to a 10% casting speed bonus or a 2.25 GCD. However, as someone noted, you'll likely need closer to a 2.1/2.0 GCD to minimize the Umbral ice phase in the B4 rotations. Much of the PPS gain is the fact that you only spend 1 tick in Ice instead of 3-4. (B3 -> Foul (1tick) -> Thunder (1tick) -> B4 (1tick) -> F3)

However it seems worth noting that secondary stat gains per 10 ilvl seem far less drastic in SB than they have in HW. (+2/+3 on accessories when it was closer to +4/+5). It may be the secondary jumps are more drastic on tiers rather than on 'upgrades', but we'll know for certain when Savage items are dropped.

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Originally Posted by Karja

I would just wait and see what the Patch Notes look like. Maybe SE changes a few things like Astral Fire duration which could change things.

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Oh shush up with the wait and see tactic. We waited and saw since before preliminary patch notes. Let us talk now!

All I can hope is that SE sees all the complaints about the "intended" 4.x rotation and fix it like they did Wanderer's Minuet/Gauss Barrel back in 3.0. Otherwise... Well, they broke the job.

Though, I think that if they at least made it so that when players cast Thundercloud'd Thunder/Thunder III, it removes the recast time, making it a pseudo oGCD.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

All I can hope is that SE sees all the complaints about the "intended" 4.x rotation and fix it like they did Wanderer's Minuet/Gauss Barrel back in 3.0. Otherwise... Well, they broke the job.

Though, I think that if they at least made it so that when players cast Thundercloud'd Thunder/Thunder III, it removes the recast time, making it a pseudo oGCD.

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This scares me a lot.
I'd rather if BLM was balanced around the overall rotation/AF cycles (adjust Fire IV/Blizzrd IV/Foul potencies, and review Umbral Hearts).
Thundercloud being ogcd would be insanely broken. Having access to a 700 potency ogcd seems insane to me. Not sure I'd approve of that change :/

Has anyone experimented on B4 being feasible at all after reading this thread? Mind sharing your experiences so far?

I've been experimenting on it a lot on Susano trying to look for gaps in mechanics where I could squeeze 6 F4s but it usually blows up in my face. My best run so far had me cast a measly total of 5 B4s. I managed to perfectly time my B4 just as each purple marker phase was about to end and pulling off 6 F4s all throughout the succeeding Unheki phase. IIRC one of those B4s was a mistake and I ended up missing a cast of F4.

I gotta tell you guys though, while I 100% agree that SE should do something about our 4.0 rotation, the whole effort of trying to optimize this fight to include as much 4.0 AF rotations as I can was the most fun I've had so far. I just hope this isn't me subconsciously conceding to this mess of a kit. :X

Hello friends. I leveled BLM back in 2.0 but left it at lv50 for 3.0. Now in 4.0 I'm leveling it again and just got lv60 a few days ago.

So I have a question because I'm terrible and getting used to all this again.

I've been following (as close as I can) what I guess is the standard rotation of:
3xF4>F>3xF4>B3

and I see the logic there, but the timing is tight to maintain like the op mentions. So I wanted to ask you all who are much better at figuring this stuff out than I am, how much worse is this rotation:
3xF4>B3>F3>3xF4>B3

Pretty much just replacing the single F1 for a B3>F3 combo. It is about 1s slower, but I think the damage of B3+F3 is about the same as F1 and it makes keeping enochain up much easier because of the faster cast time on B3 vs F1.

I know it IS a dps loss, but by how much? Is it minimal enough to consider? Or is it a huge loss and not worth doing?

Although I'd still use 3xF4>F>3xF4>B3 with sharpcast though as that gives a free F3.

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

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It's a dps loss, for many reasons.

First, something most people don't understand about how AF III and UI III interact with spells of the opposing element.
When you're in AF III and cast B3 (or UI III and cast F3), the channelling of the spell (the cast) is shortened by 50%. That means it takes 1.75 seconds.
But, on your tooltip, there's something called "recast time". That time- which is one gcd for us- is the time you must wait until you can cast another spell. That's 2.5 seconds for F3 and B3.
So even though the cast only lasts 1.75 seconds, you have to sit there for the whole gcd duration before you can cast anything again. That means that B3>F3 transition lasts 5 seconds.

You then have two other issues to deal with:
First, you forego T3. That's less procs (free pps) and also less movement options.
Second, if you get a slow mana tick on UI, you have to wait around doing nothing for 1.5 seconds on average. Or you cast a filler spell, which would be T3, this rectifying the previous issue.
Since it's extremely hard to guess a mana tick in a vacuum (aka: without seeing the previous tick, if you see one you can guestimate the next relatively accurately), you pretty much always have to cast T3/Foul to get around the mana tick issue.

The pps for your proposed rotation, btw, would be 132 (without a filler spell), which is ~13pps lower than the 3.X rotation.
With a filler spell (to get around the mana tick thing), you'd get around 136pps.
This is a 10% dps loss VS the HW rotation without a Firestarter proc.
On average, you're doing 12% less damage than a player using the 3.X rotation with a 4.0 opener would do (although it's not as bad as I thought it would be).
Whether that's acceptable or not is up to you x)

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

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Ahh you're completely right, I didn't think about the gcd at all. I guess it would be alright during a movement mechanic or something but other than that I'll try to avoid it. Thanks :)

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

B3(prepull)>Enochian>T3>B4>F3>Triple(weaved into quick F3)>F4>Sharpcast>F4>F4>LL(weaved)>F>F4x3>Firestarter>Convert(weaved)>F4x2.

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That whole shebang is 10 PPS lower than Sharp opener when you get an extra FS, Foul and all included with my sheets. Even one TC proc without any clipping (impossible) is not enough to pull ahead. Is there also any reason to use Ley that late when you can fit it with the Sharp and not clip anything? All that changes is getting faster F4 during normal rotation instead of getting them faster during the opener.

I never was a BLM before SB, but on a whim I decided to give it a go and leveled it to 70 via dungeons and stuff. It's actually my 5th 70 now, the 3rd DPS (NIN and SAM being the other two), so immediately I began to notice my 5 or 6 Fire IVs, as pretty as they looked, seemed to be tickling bosses rather than hurting them...

Well, I continued on and went entirely blind into the BLM rotation anyway. Firstly, I ended up falling into a "B4 > F3 > 2x F4 > F1 > 3x F4 > B3" based rotation because the few times I'd tried 6x F4s, I was left with 0 mana and never realized it was thanks to bad mana ticks. Secondly, I had little room for mechanics. Unlike the 6x F4 rotation I apparently should've discovered, I DID have more room to maneuver than most, but it would still cost me one F4 a lot of the time, and in fights involving stack mechanics I'd have to sacrifice 2 or 3 F4s even.

Last night I discovered this thread after hitting level 70, finding myself still frustrated even with Foul to back up my rotation, and trying to look online for anything wrong I've done and whether or not BLM truly is fudged. This morning, I went to SSS and tried a true 6x F4 4.X rotation as shown here, the pseudo-3.X rotation, then the SAM SSS to compare all 3 (SAM has the same ilvl and by some strange luck the same gear, currently, neither have materia melded yet) and got to 20% for 4.X rotation, 10% for 3.X rotation, and a sliver of 1% for SAM rotation (would've beaten if if not for 2 misses on the hotbar).

I'm still sloppy as a BLM, especially since its mechanics are so complex, so I DID make mistakes whereas with SAM's relatively simple mechanics I only made 2 or 3 mistakes. However I'm certain that though I can beat the SSS dummy as a SAM at the same ilvl, I won't be beating it as BLM as the same ilvl while using the 4.0 rotation, and only while using the 3.X rotation if I get more than average T3 procs.

BLM is so high maintenance that it feels really bad to have all your hard work amounts to so little damage. I'm not a BLM main, I might not ever become a BLM main, but now that I've tried it and understand the pains they go through to max out their DPS, I REALLY think they should easily (well, when they're doing the 4.X rotation right, so not so easily) max out the DPS standings. And funnily enough, I'd end up enjoying RDM more since it would feel less like a cheap upgrade to BLM too (since you can't upgrade from DPS-kings/queens).

Make Umbral Hearts have a cast-time reduction effect in addition to mana reduction.
or
Make Umbral Hearts give an extra couple seconds to your AF timer.
or
Make AF/UI a few seconds longer.

Option 1 is the most fun; option 3 is probably the route they go because the answer is usually: what is the easiest / most boring way to fix this?

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Originally Posted by corey1

Make Umbral Hearts have a cast-time reduction effect in addition to mana reduction.
or
Make Umbral Hearts give an extra couple seconds to your AF timer.
or
Make AF/UI a few seconds longer.

Option 1 is the most fun; option 3 is probably the route they go because the answer is usually: what is the easiest / most boring way to fix this?

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AF/UI timers should have a couple extra seconds on them as a matter of course and shouldn't have anything to do with Umbral Hearts. Additionally, we should have a bit more mana so the 2400 situation never happens; we should not be held at the behest of an arbitrary server tick.

What I'd like to see Umbral Hearts in addition to the mana reduction, is simply provide a 5% damage boost to the fire spells cast under it. That way there would be a clear and tangible benefit to casting Blizzard 4 and not just something that is at best a negligible increase over not using it.

Make Blizzard IV reduce magic resistance by 5%. Forces you to use the "proper" rotation, slightly improves BLM dps and also provides raid utility.
or
Make Blizzard IV reduce fire resistance by 10%. Brings BLM closer to SAM dps but no raid utility (except I guess Katon and a couple of RDM spells)

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

Make Blizzard IV reduce magic resistance by 5%. Forces you to use the "proper" rotation, slightly improves BLM dps and also provides raid utility.
or
Make Blizzard IV reduce fire resistance by 10%. Brings BLM closer to SAM dps but no raid utility (except I guess Katon and a couple of RDM spells)

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I actually like that idea. Since Raging Strikes and Foe Requiem are gone, we have nothing left to buff our magic dps. So that would allow us to buff ourselves as well as give us some synergy with other caster (the magic resistance thing) classes, maybe finally making it viable to go with multiple casters.

So I put some insight in this thread into practice yesterday. I ran Delta 1.0 a few times using Blizzard IV during every Umbral rotation, my last run ended at 3.8k.

Conversely, I ran it a few more times, this time only using Blizzard IV when Convert was ready for the 8 Fire IV rotation. I cast it a total of three times in the entire fight. My number ended at 4.3k on the final run.

I almost feel like this is the intended way to play BLM, because after I broke the habit of casting it every time, it just feels so much smoother. I'm not complaining whatsoever. The Umbral Heart trait is aoe-related after all, who says it has to be a part of our single target rotation?

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

Make Blizzard IV reduce magic resistance by 5%. Forces you to use the "proper" rotation, slightly improves BLM dps and also provides raid utility.
or
Make Blizzard IV reduce fire resistance by 10%. Brings BLM closer to SAM dps but no raid utility (except I guess Katon and a couple of RDM spells)

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And it's good utility!
This is a very good idea :)

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Originally Posted by AxiomPITCH

I almost feel like this is the intended way to play BLM, because after I broke the habit of casting it every time, it just feels so much smoother. I'm not complaining whatsoever. The Umbral Heart trait is aoe-related after all, who says it has to be a part of our single target rotation?

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The aoe rotation is basically B3 > B4 > T4 > F3 > Flare > Foul > Flare > Transpose > Repeat. If it's supposed to be an aoe-related trait, it provides us 2 more Umbral hearts than we need for the aoe rotation.

That's why everyone believes it's supposed to be key to the single target 4.X rotation, that and since the aoe-related trait unlocks at level 68 while Umbral Hearts unlock at level 58 alongside Blizzard IV.

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Originally Posted by Kiriken

The aoe rotation is basically B3 > B4 > T4 > F3 > Flare > Foul > Flare > Transpose > Repeat. If it's supposed to be an aoe-related trait, it provides us 2 more Umbral hearts than we need for the aoe rotation.

That's why everyone believes it's supposed to be key to the single target 4.X rotation, that and since the aoe-related trait unlocks at level 68 while Umbral Hearts unlock at level 58 alongside Blizzard IV.

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But it still is the key, it's just on Convert's cooldown. You can't pull that high without using it at least with Convert.

I also find that it's nice to use if the fight and your rotation align enough to where there will be a small delay in the fight itself while you're still in umbral, you could cast it and do a little more damage (and mobility if you have sharpcast ready at the time as well) in the following astral phase. But it's not consistent, there's many variables that make it inefficient to use. If they really want us to use Blizzard IV, then yes, it does need to be reworked, because as of this moment it's use is incredibly niche on single targets with a 180s cooldown.

Also that aoe rotation should only be used on 4 or more targets. It is slightly inefficient on anything less. Instead, on 3 targets, do B3 > T4 > B4 > F3 > F4 > F4 > Flare > Foul > Flare > Transpose > Repeat. You can place those Fire IV's however you like. I keep trying to find a use for Fire II, such as on 4 targets, but it's literally a waste of time now since you do more overall damage from doing the "quick" astral phase with F3 > Flare with umbral hearts. BLM is in a strange place.

B4 only with convert or also when LL and Triple are ready?

If the fight allows your cooldowns to sync up then yes, B4 should be used with all three of those abilities. The 2nd LL and Triple without Convert however, I'm not sure, I haven't really tested that myself yet. It does make sense to use it, because of how quickly the first 3 Fire IV's go out under LL and Triple, but I dunno if it ends up with a dps increase over just omitting Blizzard IV. Also the 2400 MP remaining is hard to look at while under LL if you don't use B4, so at least there's that reason to use it.

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Originally Posted by qivis

B4 only with convert or also when LL and Triple are ready?

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The rotation will line up LL with Triple perfectly, so whenever that's up you can use B4 and basically do a small opener minus the Convert part.

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Originally Posted by Kiriken

The aoe rotation is basically B3 > B4 > T4 > F3 > Flare > Foul > Flare > Transpose > Repeat. If it's supposed to be an aoe-related trait, it provides us 2 more Umbral hearts than we need for the aoe rotation.

That's why everyone believes it's supposed to be key to the single target 4.X rotation, that and since the aoe-related trait unlocks at level 68 while Umbral Hearts unlock at level 58 alongside Blizzard IV.

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You forgot two Fire IIs before that Flare. Since, like the Flare MP cost, you can actually use the Enhanced Umbral Heart effect with just one Umbral Heart.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

Make Blizzard IV reduce magic resistance by 5%. Forces you to use the "proper" rotation, slightly improves BLM dps and also provides raid utility.
or
Make Blizzard IV reduce fire resistance by 10%. Brings BLM closer to SAM dps but no raid utility (except I guess Katon and a couple of RDM spells)

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I love this idea. It makes Umbral Hearts a second Enochian, though I could see it as simply buffing the player's magic potency and Fire potency respectively, as a proper selfish buff.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

You forgot two Fire IIs before that Flare. Since, like the Flare MP cost, you can actually use the Enhanced Umbral Heart effect with just one Umbral Heart.

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Isn't F2 waste of time (= loss of DPS)?

edit:
that "=" was a "0" before, sorry :D

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Originally Posted by qivis

Isn't F2 waste of time (0 loss of DPS)?

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The only reason we used F2 beforehand was because of the transpose cooldown.

Given that you can double Flare now (8 seconds), you need an absurd pack size to justify getting off more Fire2s, given that Flare is over 3x stronger on the primary target, and still stayds stronger on maximum falloff. There's no point in bothering with Fire2 as it prevents you from doing more Flares.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

The only reason we used F2 beforehand was because of the transpose cooldown.

Given that you can double Flare now (8 seconds), you need an absurd pack size to justify getting off more Fire2s, given that Flare is over 3x stronger on the primary target, and still stayds stronger on maximum falloff. There's no point in bothering with Fire2 as it prevents you from doing more Flares.

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Yeah, that's what I thought. That 0 was a misleading typo, meant to be an = :D

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

The only reason we used F2 beforehand was because of the transpose cooldown.

Given that you can double Flare now (8 seconds), you need an absurd pack size to justify getting off more Fire2s, given that Flare is over 3x stronger on the primary target, and still stayds stronger on maximum falloff. There's no point in bothering with Fire2 as it prevents you from doing more Flares.

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I thought at 12 (11.6 exact) mobs fire 2 actually starts out-pacing flare in overall damage.

— Crazy thoughts / Wishlist —

• Enochian has been moved to level 60 and is now a trait that causes Fire, Ice, or Lightning direct critical strikes to generate Melt, Shatter, or Burst, respectively, lasting 10 seconds. Each causes Scourge to be replaced with the oldest of any of the three effects, changing the skill into Melt, Shatter, or Burst. These effects can be clicked off to make use of a newer effect directly.

• Melt causes your Fire damage to additionally reduce the target's defense by 5% of damage dealt (dropping it into negative Defense) for 12 seconds atop 200 instant Fire damage.
• Shatter consumes your Umbral Hearts to deal 170 potency each to the target atop 200 instant Ice damage.
• Burst immediately deals the full damage of the remaining periodic effect of Thunder I or III and spreads it enemies within 6 yalms. If the target is not affected by Thunder I or III, the target will receive 1 tick of damage from each enemy within 6 yalms affected by Thunder II or IV.

• UI now generates mana from the swap itself (enough for most casts even when swapping from nearly no mana) and then continuously filling the rest completely over 4 seconds (in UI3), affected by Attack Speed.
• Astral Fire and Umbral Ice now generate 20% reduced mana cost and cast time per stack (rather than only rank 3 carrying the latter benefit).
• Astral Fire and Umbral Ice now additionally affect the cast after transitioning between if cast or queued within 1 second. Resultantly, you have an extra 60% of a spell's mana available to play with upon returning to AF.

Umbral Heart's mana reduction works additively with above, reducing said spell's cost to almost nothing.

• Astral Fire has been reduced to 20% damage increase to Fire spells per stack. The potencies of all Fire and Ice have been increased to compensate.

(Now 200/100/270/300 potency for ranks I/II/III/IV, 300 for Flare, and 270 for Freeze. This does not affect resultant Fire damage, but makes time spent in UI less punishing.)

This should should slightly increase Astral Fire uptime through the second reduced-cost Fire spell of each rotation, offer additional instants in the form of tactical skills, massively improve mobility and consistency (except where reliant on direct crit procs for Enochian - Scourge), and make Blizzard IV a bit more viable.

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Originally Posted by SublimeIbanez

I thought at 12 (11.6 exact) mobs fire 2 actually starts out-pacing flare in overall damage.

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Oof. Let me math.

Assumption: Consume all Umbral Hearts and still double Flare. Baseline Spell Speed. (Minimum GCD of 2.5) 12 targets. Will also not calculate T4 other than GCD time.
This means

B3 -> B4 -> T4 -> F3 -> F2 -> F2 -> Flare -> Flare (We will exclude Foul for now)
Total time: 2.5 + 3.0 + 3.0 + 2.5 + 3.0 + 3.0 + 4.0 + 4.0 = 25.0 seconds
Potency - Primary Target: 120 + 260 + 120 + 144 + 144 + 468 + 468 = 1724
Potency - Second: 144 + 144 + 398 + 398 = 1084
Potency - Third: 144 + 144 + 327 + 327 = 942
Potency - Fourth: 144 + 144 + 257 + 257 = 802
Potency - Fifth: 144 + 144 + 187 + 187 = 662
Potency - Sixth+: (144 + 144 + 140 + 140) * 7 (6th target + 6 more) = 3976

Potency / seconds = 9190 / 25 = 367.6 potency/second

Ugh.

Flare only: Using previous work we can simply this down to 19 seconds, minus 288 potency in every scenario to
Potency / second = 5734 / 19 = 301.7 potency / second

Which means Fire 2 breaks even at... *math math math*

X / 25 = 301.7 = 7542 potency which is... approximately 1680 under the '12 target' scenario, meaning you need a pack of approximately 9 for Fire2 to be equal PPS, and everything else is gravy.

For F2 only spam... you can likely do 5 F2's (would have to test to be certain) which puts you at...
26 seconds with 9740 potency
374 potency / second

Again, this math doesn't account for T4 or Foul potency that would change the dynamics of it, because I'm lazy, and is strictly from a Fire / Flare standpoint.

So in most 3-6 pack cases, I will say F2 is a waste. Based on this math I did that is highly subject to being wrong, I will say on the designated AOE packs that exceed 9, you can probably just F2 spam, but Flare would still be better included for dealing merssive damage to a big target in the group.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

Make Blizzard IV reduce magic resistance by 5%. Forces you to use the "proper" rotation, slightly improves BLM dps and also provides raid utility.
or
Make Blizzard IV reduce fire resistance by 10%. Brings BLM closer to SAM dps but no raid utility (except I guess Katon and a couple of RDM spells)

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tbh i dont realy like this idea. simply from a logical point of view (i know its called final fantasy but even fantasy follows some kind of logic :(. Umbral hearts are like a gameplay mechanic belonging to a BLM so i dont see how it can be equated to a debuff.

i suggest that they should increase the potency of the spell cast within umbral hearts. each umbral heart increases the spell potency cast in AF by 30 so for example:
if you have 3 umbral hearts up and you cast 1 fire spell in AF than the first spell will get a 90 potency boost, the second spell will get a 60 potency boost because one of the UH's have been used and the third spell will increase its potency by 30.
I did some quick calculations with this using only the opener rotation and it showed an increase of about ~ 5%.

They did a pretty good job on BLM, they only need to tweak it a bit in terms of damage and its fine. by giving umbral hearts more reason to be used outside the opener, within ley and aoe.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

math

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B3 and F3 is a 3.5 cast and why would you cast B3 anyway? Their damage also can't get halved.

10 mobs with Thunder:

T4 B4 F3 F2 F2 Flare Flare - 443,6 PPS
(2300+260+216+1440*2+2340*2)/23,3

T4 B4 F3 Flare Flare - 397,4 PPS
(2000+260+216+2340*2)/17,3

T4 B4 F3 F2 F2 F2 F2 Flare - 435,1 PPS
(2300+260+216+1440*5+2340)/28,3

Bonus:
T4 F3 F2 F2 Flare - 450,6 PPS
(2000+216+1440*2+2340)/16,5

You need 3 ticks for normal T4 to be roughly equal to F2 (140 and 144) and use TC pretty much at will. Foul would be extra 4225p every 30 seconds.

Did a quick test and you have to wait a tiny bit to get enough mana for 5xF2, and even longer come next patch because of shorter B4 (already included above).

btw, the new letter does not seem to bring much hope to BLM, it seems like it is just some band-aid QoL changes. A buff? Yes! Enough? Nope!