ffxiv royal menagerie trial Normal

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Originally Posted by Krokov

I am curious everyone says to other players get good get better or don't do the fight quit the game Etc. I've wondered why does it bother you?, assuming you'll never party with them or anything what does it bother you if a player gets better or not at the game forget if they asked for a Nerf or not at all in the basic sense why is it so bothersome?

No this isn't to say that I want it I'm just curious as I see all these comments about don't do it don't do it and so on.

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because we don't want our engaging content to be made brain-dead easy.

If you don't party with me, I dont care how good you are in the game. But don't go demanding the content that everyone shares be made easier just for you.

edit: after reading your question again a few times, it sounds like you're imagining a single player game. Lets imagine Zelda BotW. OF COURSE, no one would care how someone else plays that game because it's a single player game and nothing they do can affect you in your game. But MMOs are a shared experience and FFxiv is based on teamwork and working together. Almost all of its content is based on teams. Naturally, if you're on a team, you should be concerned with your teammates' efforts.

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Originally Posted by Krokov

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Assuming makes an ass out of you and me. It is very likely that you might end up playing with such a person. Don't get me wrong. I couldn't care less about how good or bad people play in a normal dungeon or trial. I don't go around and tell people to get gud when doing the last Trial. I actually explained people and worked together with them so they could beat it when I got it as mentor roulette. As long as I get it done I don't care how much dps they output, if they are in tank stance all the time or if healer don't dps. Do whatever pleases you.
But changing content to make it easier for people does not belong to that. If we start nerfing everything stuff will only get easier and ppl will only get worse. It will start a trending decline and that's what I'm afraid of. I still remember the good old days in which Pharos Sirius was a fucking hard dungeon. They nerfed it. It was a pushover. Dungeons already are. You can ignore all mechanics and still kill the boss. Only the healer has to do more work if a dps decides to not do what should be done. This should not be the case.
What SE does with the trial difficulty is actually the right way. Give it some time. People will get to know the strat. People will learn to play their classes better. In the end the group will consist of more people who already beat the trial and it will make the fight easier without it being nerfed.
I'm for trials and dungeons getting harder over time. Just bit by bit so people get used to it without actually noticing it. It will make for more complex, interesting and varying bossfights. If Square Enix isn't allowed to come up with more stuff like that we will just see the same old mechanics over and over again...

I don't mind if square enix puts in the echo (if it isnt already in), because the echo is optional. You could click it away (altho randoms won't do that..). Still that would be an option to make the trial easier without nerfing it and removing the initial experience. I know a lot of my friends are afraid of it being nerfed before they can do it.

If you can just punch the final boss's face in, it would not feel very rewarding, now would it?
On the top of that it would be like spitting into the characters face and our WoL after all the build up.

Throwing in with the popular opinion here:

Please don't nerf it. Heck, please make an Extreme version of this awesome fight (optional, of course). This is one of the most epic boss fights in the game and should not be ruined. I realize it's frustrating for people who just want to get through the story, but ask yourself: would it really feel as epic in the end if you could just faceroll the boss? This problem has plagued Final Fantasy from the beginning. Lots of people play for the story alone and can't get past bosses. But grinding will let you get past it. In single-player FF games, that just involved powergrinding levels until you could faceroll the boss. In an MMORPG setting, you just need to either a) wait for gear progression to make it easier, or b) find friends who can help you clear it or keep trying until you get a good party. All you really need to get lucky on to clear this is 1-2 good healers and at least 1 tank that knows what they're doing. As far as I'm aware, the boss has no enrage. I've had parties take a very long time killing him due to constant DPS deaths and most of the party having Brink of Death the whole fight.

SE, dont listen to whiners. Please, INCREASE the difficulty and make more complex mechanics that require intelligence and skill.
Whoever doesnt like it, there are 100000 other easier games to choose.

We want difficulty.

Remember FFXI final boss fights and how hard they we're? Well not Promathia, but Raubahn and Alexander were hard as he'll, as was the two twins in Zilart. Adoulin final boss was hard too.

Oh don't get me wrong I do get concerned with teammates efforts I usually don't say anything cuz I'm just not aggressive I'm more passive. And it's not that I imagine this is a single player game (alot lot of times I do like to be by myself and enjoy stuff) I just I'm trying to understand as I don't really grasp the concept if you will of how if something's easy it's no longer enjoyable again not asking for a Nerf or anything, personally I do feel a sense of yes we did it after completing a fight that's taken x amount of attempt, I'm really just trying to understand other players outlook as it were on the game and difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Krokov

I'm really just trying to understand other players outlook as it were on the game and difficulty.

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in my opinion, it probably boils down to different playstyles. MMOs attract a ton of different playstyles, some that seek challenge, some that seek constant content, some that just want to level up, some that just want to look cute/cool. I honestly dread getting Sastasha in leveling roulette no matter role i queue as because I find it so boring and easy. Not everyone is going to be that way, but people that prefer complexity and challenge will get bored very quickly. thats just our perspective, at least.

This is normal, wait until you hit EX!

There's not much in this fight that's too hard. After you pay attention you're pretty solid. These mechanics we've all seen before, we just can't face roll them and get hit by them without any penalties our way.

I know I messed up, when shiva's ice came around I hit the joy-stick. Tank - down!

Anyone that sits down to log in to an MMO, and puts in the time to reach the final boss, should also devote some time to learning how to play the game. There are always going to be bad players, but every one of us has the opportunity to choose not to be one. If you can't clear the trial as is, maybe gathering and crafting is more your speed. Seriously, if a player strives to be even average, then these story mode fights will not be a wall to them. The only thing that needs a nerf in this game, is the sense of entitlement felt by the ones who put no effort into learning. At some point, Get Good really is the answer. The OP has found that point here with the menagerie.

This is a theme park MMO, yes. But just like in a real theme park, you have to be tall enough to ride the rides.

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Originally Posted by Mature

Asking for a nerf after 2 weeks out???

You might want to consider playing PAC - MAN or games a like

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PAC-MAN is way harder than this game.

No, they are not nerfing it. It's an easy fight!

No, no it really shouldn't. If you can't beat this within a dozen tries there is seriously something wrong with the group. My DF group went 1/6 and I just solo healed it from 50% since the other healer kept falling off.


These players should not be allowed to progress into the pool of even endgame dungeons imo as they kill the experience of capable players on a daily basis. If anything, there needs to be even more difficulty checks than there are.

Reducing the difficulty on this only makes the experience that much worse. Don't listen SE, we need a tiny bit of challenge outside of Raids and Extremes.

I remember people like the OP screaming for a nerf on Nidhogg when we finally got to fight him on story mode at release. Same people that complained about Ozma and wanted it to be nerfed. Which subsequently are the same people that asked Alexander 12 to be nerfed.

Why should everybody be able to clear something in a couple of minutes? I just did that trial last night and my group wiped around 4 times until everybody got the mechanics and after that it went smooth. Ever since, every time I get that trial again my groups end up wiping a couple times if there's a big number of new players but otherwise it's a one shot.

There's a difference about "this content is way too dificult and the average player base can't clear" and "this content is more challenging than what the average player base is used to, therefor it requires more attention and time to learn".

If it's new you don't know what to expect, and if you don't know what to expect you're obviously not fully prepared for it. Not only you, but me and a lot of other people. But as you can see on your own thread even the most casual up to the most hardcore of the players had a tough time clearing that trial at first. But they did.

Adding another tip I forgot in my post on page 5. Have you ran the most current dungeon to the point where every piece of gear you have is as up to date as possible for this fight?

I realize many people are just saying "Iz ez, git gud." and calling it a day, but that's not going to solve their problem or the OP's. My point is to prove that the OP has no business asking for a nerf as s/he has not done everything in his or her power to maximize his or her contribution to the party. It's better to ask oneself "What can I do better?" than to whinge about something on a forum and get verbally knocked down and kicked in the teeth by an entire community. Which is essentially what I see happening here.

The developers need to decide what the threshold for skill is in their game and they need to design accordingly. Different games have different tiers for this based off of the type of clientele they are trying to attract. SE need only change this if the current design is not working toward their business goals.

It's the FUCKING FINAL BOSS

Of course it need to be hard. Thordan was an awesome boss but lack in terms of challange.

Please don't Step of Faith it.

If you having so much trouble to beat it means you lack the skills, go watch some videos and guides them go back to the fight.

If you are still having trouble, that means you are really bad and don't want you in clears parties for more endgame content, stay locked there please. Call me an elitist if you want.

Also, don't you have friends or FC to help you? Nobody needs to buy clear in this game, lul

I honestly like the Shinryu fight as it is. It gave me a challenge that told me "There's no PS3 to hold us back!!"

If they nerf it. People who cleared it before the nerf should get a free glamour item of their choice.

We have heard this tune before remember when Final Steps of faith came out, yep same song and dance from people struggling or failing at completing the trial.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

We have heard this tune before remember when Final Steps of faith came out, yep same song and dance from people struggling or failing at completing the trial.

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I guess this means they are going to nerf it, the only question is when :\

I really hope they leave it alone. Yes it is has a solid difficulty but watch video, and learn from your mistakes in fight. Once you get the mechanics down it's not really bad. And it is all kinds of fun.

Duty finder, only one person knew the fight, got beat the first time around, learned from our mistakes and we beat it on the second try. Honestly, what's hard about paying attention to what mechanics do and then countering them? If you are absolutely still having problems, run Ala Migho castle a few times for some ilvl 300 gear.

Oh god. Is this going to be Steps of Faith all over again?

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Originally Posted by Niadissa

Duty finder, only one person knew the fight, got beat the first time around, learned from our mistakes and we beat it on the second try. Honestly, what's hard about paying attention to what mechanics do and then countering them? If you are absolutely still having problems, run Ala Migho castle a few times for some ilvl 300 gear.

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Cleared mine via duty finder as well with most of us having no clue. Wiped 5 times got it on the sixth with very few hiccups. People just need to learn.

So I helped another friend through this. The party we got was FULL of terrible, horrible, players that kept killing themselves. For example one of our tanks kept walking off the edge to his death. My partner healer kept running out of mana(a WHM... how even...).... so he was pretty much useless. We still cleared it. It's extremely forgiving for even the most casual player. There's no need to "git gud" for the fight, you just can't AFK auto attack it.

i mean, what's the point of nerfing this fight if you gonna see even harder content from there? Extreme primals are harder than this fight, Omega will be harder and Omega savage will be the ultimate difficulty of this game.

The new 24 man raid (return to ivalice) will be harder as well.

So, why the fuck do ou want a nerf on this fight if you not going to pass the other endgame content wih your current skill level? Gonna want to nerf all content too?

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

I guess this means they are going to nerf it, the only question is when :\

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Final Steps of Faith wasn't nerfed, though...

It's about bloody time some people take a look at their HUD and notice they're lvl 70 now and that they aren't running Sastasha anymore. That in the long time they've been playing they SHOULD have learned a thing or 2.

I am glad that I did this fight now and not later when it will be nerfed. (I fear that this will happen) Steps of faith did have the problem that a missed shot could mean a wipe, yet you had to wait till he walked all the way to the end..that would take lots of time. It was really sad what it became after the nerf.

I also believe that this is a good way to show some people that they need to get better. The other dungeons were already more mechanic heavy and this one is on the top of it. I sure hope that it taught that one jump potion healer a good lesson of getting better. The only thing I fear is the behavior of some people that finished this and get it in their roulette. In my second group we had a tank that already did it and that had no understanding that us new people need to learn this fight. There are a lot of things happening and a mistake can lead to you dieing so one should be prepared to wipe to this at least once or twice, and more if there are mostly new players in it. Yet that tank started to complain after the second wipe and even wanted to end the duty. We had to kick her and did not get another one after that..so I do fear that this might get bad for people later when a lot of players are finished with it and might not remember that they also needed a bit to understand the fight.

So dear community a harder fight is all good (and necessary) but also remember to bring some patience with you. Otherwise it will not surprise me if SE nerfes it.

On one hand, I get all the people who want this nerfed. Unlike a lot of the content mentioned in this thread as an example, like raids and extremes - this content is mandatory for story progression.
That said, I agree it's a learning matter. Plus, as time progresses, more people will become familiar with it, and more importantly, gear will improve and power creep will rear its head once more. This fight will become a joke just like Thordan (and if that one was nerfed before, all the more power to the example because it really is a joke right now). This isn't how the final trial of an expansion (minus patches) should feel, least of all right off the bat.

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Originally Posted by Katryn

I realize many people are just saying "Iz ez, git gud." and calling it a day, but that's not going to solve their problem or the OP's.

My point is to prove that the OP has no business asking for a nerf as s/he has not done everything in his or her power to maximize his or her contribution to the party.

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You're essentially saying the same thing as "git gud" here, only with more words while somehow, at the same rate, complaining about the fact that OP chose to subject themselves to the feedback and/or backlash of the community. I'm not sure I'm understanding your point, because it doesn't seem to have proven anything whatsoever.

FC-member was having trouble clearing this fight earlier with randoms from Duty Finder, formed group of 7 FC members and poor boss had no chances.

At least that one random who got in with us seemed happy for easy kill. :p

Sorry OP, but your claim that even with a 140+ member FC "can't" beat it is ridiculous.

Is RM hard? Yes and no. Hard for the first couple of attempts since you're not used to what attacks are coming, but after that it's a very predictable pattern that you can easily dodge.

I Pug'd RM. The first group failed due to time up since they had to wait after their tank rage quit (I joined mid-fight). The second group I was in cleared it after only two wipes. And that's pugs with absolutely no communication.

An FC can communicate to make it even easier. So your claims are false.

Nerfing content shouldn't and won't happen until the next new content comes... which will be 3-4 months, thank goodness.

I don't think SE should change a thing about the Royal Menagerie. Yes, it's a step up from the usual challenge of Normal difficulty Trials, but that's exactly the point: Not only is it the final boss of the Stormblood storyline (for now), but it is also an exam of all previous Primals you have faced thus far. After all, most of its abilities have been taken directly from other Primals.

The only possible thing they could change in this fight is reduce the AoE damage some, which could be somewhat helpful to players going in their first time especially on the 5 bomb part where I see people in the right spot and still die, but mechanics would still need to be learned.

I constantly get this on my trial roulette and it's almost always a one shot. I don't think it needs nerfing. People are clearing just fine.

Please don't. It's literally just one big mashup of mechanics you've seen before. If you can't even remember how things work after 70 levels then I don't know what to tell you. If anything I wish more bosses were like this. It's fun and easy enough once you actually understand it but hard enough if you don't pay attention and plan cooldowns properly. In my past runs everything goes smoothly until the last 10-15% when people fall off cause they weren't paying attention to cracked platforms or tanks forget to share and pop cooldowns during the last Akh Morns.

My group finished it our second try o.O I'm not that good and we cleared it.

I think the main reason why people see it as so hard is because they've become reliant on mid-battle resurrects and their healers having so much mana and free time that they act more like dps most of the time. When Piety got nerfed along with the major buff to debilitations from being revived, it essentially was SE saying that players can't bumble their way through content anymore. This is the first story required fight that has required the utmost from everyone in the party, and yeah it sucks because getting randoms in the duty finder really only hurts your chances at completing it, but this is definitely something sorely needed in the game.

Think of it like Ozma (Extreme)...

Cure 3 is really a lovely skill on this boss, you'll come to see it's true value.

The only problem my team had when i did it for the first time was the meteors of phase 2. other than all the damage from that the mechanics are easy, but surviving phase 2 is the challenge.