Raiders, why do you raid? None riders, why not?

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Originally Posted by Yeol

So list your reasons below. Raider or not and why? :)

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I used to love love LOVE raids a long time ago in my WoW and EQ days. Times change, people change and I just don't really enjoy it anymore. Mixed with a re-examination of priorities of what I do need and what i don't need in games to be able to play them. This doesn't pertain to just FFXIV but all my other games as well. So far the only things I can say I /needed/, be it equipment upgrade items, alternate gear paths, etc thankfully come from 24 player raids and such. The hardcore raids there's nothing I can say that comes from them that I /need/ I can make do without a slightly higher level of gear. I can live without minions, mounts, glamor, titles, or whatever perfectly fine.

1) Unreliable connection and dont have a FC or any group of people that actually want to raid.

2)It just doesnt do it for me, with most gear you can work your butt off for but it doesnt matter its just going to get outdated weeks later and the gear is just not-dyeable gear(normal)->dyeable gear(savage). I use to be a hardcore raider in SWTOR and it at least gave you something amazing for clearing the hardest stuff such as the crest of the dread master and wings of the architect (wings mount) these items were considered "Legendary Items" something that FFXIV lacks.Like lets say maybe clearing Bahamut (Savage) on min item lvl gave you a Bahamut styled wings mount you know something to strive to get rather than just a higher ilvl.

I don't raid specifically savage is because of my living situation and the skill/time commitment to it. My skill is okay for extremes but I'm not sure so about savage. I've never stepped foot into them. And I'm not completely knowledgeable on my jobs to warrant being able to actually do a good job in it

And of course no one is going to want to take a complete newbie to this kind of content into one.

I raid for enjoyment and to improve myself. Most content outside Savage is faceroll levels easy, though I still have fun with them for what they are. I prefer some bits of content where I'm pushed and punished for my mistakes. Besides, dying a hundred times can be fun with the right group. One I have now brought into song when we had a bad A11 run. :D

I raided in WoW for probably eight years or so, including at a reasonably decent level. I'm just not willing to play games on a schedule anymore and there are certain things about this game, including its built-in unresponsiveness, that would drive me bonkers if I were trying to play seriously. I'm also just not really interested in doing a ton of theorycrafting anymore either, so in a game where things tend to be a bit more opaque and there are far fewer and less well developed tools for it, it's really just never going to be worth the effort to me. I mean I only just started doing ex primals after I came back now that I have an FC that does those things, but killing Zurvan ex is probably going to be about as close to relevant as the content I clear ever gets.

I like raiding, started it with gw's fow and elite missions and oh, man, enjoying so much the need to have a team that needs perform perfectly and just 1 man that screws is a full wipe.

Actually not doing it on PF because the attitude of randoms, and the unforgiveness you meet. You can pug raid on pf only when you actually have the raid on farm, because the only allowed teams in pf are that kind. Every now and then you see 'learning' teams, but there you will find really clueless people (aka, thinking a raid is a faceroll as any duty, then they meets with reality), or again salt over the flipped table when something goes wrong (aka someone's fast-reading will always skip the 'learning' word when enter a pf group).

Will do it with my fc, or nothing.

For a somewhat serious response, I'd like to preface this post by telling everyone

If you can beat Thordan EX at min ilvl, then you can beat anything in Creator Savage

People aren't kidding when they say the hardest part of Creator is finding seven teammates who won't idle on Netflix.

That said, reality has been beating me harder and harder lately. I work 7-7 nights anywhere from 3-7 days a week. That just happens to be prime raiding time on Aether. When I get home in the mornings it's a ghost town, especially on Cactuar. The most ideal time for me to raid would be about 3-6 pm, which is when next to NOBODY raids. I've been in at least 5 statics during the course of Alexander. For whatever reason, they either can't clear the raids, or collapse due to internal drama.

Even now just taking a scan through Aether's rading discord and everyone is recruiting for the evenings.

I've strongly considered jumping ship to Chaos but I hear so many things about them. I don't wanna go somewhere to not make progress.

As much as I love to raid, for the gear, the challenge, the glory. I might have to tap out for SB as my chaotic schedule is fiercely fighting it

Why raid? Cuz it's fun.

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

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If you're referring to the same discord I think you are, I suggest keeping an eye closer to Stormblood's launch or in the weeks following. I saw a lot more odd time raid advertisements back in 3.4. Right now, most statics are on break, farm mode or just pug it whenever.

While I DO raid, I certainly understand why a lot of folks would be turned off by it. No matter how good you are at a raid, unless you have seven partners who are ALSO good at the raid, you're going to beat your head against that raid over and over and over and over. Building a raid group is, hands-down the hardest part of raiding - WAY harder than actually running the raid is. I don't know the reason why some people simply can't learn to handle mechanics, whether they suffer lag, allow themselves to be distracted by stuff in real life, simply lack the competence to do it, or any combination of those, the fact is that those folks are out there.

So, what do you do when you wind up with someone who just can't cut it in your group? If your group is coldly professional, you drop them and get someone else. But then, you're in a coldly professional group, which lacks a lot of the joy you get when you're on a team full of buddies hanging out and having fun. If your group is a bunch of warm buddies having fun, on the other hand, it can be very hard to tell that weakest link that they have to leave. Then there's the rare team of warm buddies that HAS no weakest link - that's the ideal everyone aspires to, but it is so, so rare...

That, I think, is why the raiding community is as small as it is. The bulk of them are all business and there to get the job done, having ruthlessly culled any members that happen to fall short of their expectations, with a scattered few teams of buddy groups who happen to be lucky enough to have a full team of skilled players. Neither set is very keen on the idea of welcoming new members - they have a team that works, and so they're going to stick to it. This means that any new teams have to assemble themselves from the morass of wannabe raiders, and doing so is a long and frustrating process that drives many potentials with legitimate talent to simply give up.

..oh and I also don't like dealing with people who overuse the term "meta" for everything. It doesn't making video gaming sound scientific or complex- it's just irritating to me. It's become a generic term that gamers throw around because they either hear it used by others they think are "hard core" or they want to sound "hard core".

Or maybe I am just sensitive to it after years of seeing it.

I don't raid. I honestly don't like the group dynamics that the game's design enforces with static groups and the loot rules. I dislike the enforced schedule of raiding, my personal schedule is so changeable I cannot guarantee to be available, I dislike banging my head off a brick wall until it (the wall) breaks, I dislike stress and drama - which from personal experience are rife in raiding.

Knowing all of this I know that regardless of whether I am good enough, I would still be a poor addition to a raid team. So I wouldn't inflict myself on a raid group anyway. I might PUG some of the older raids, I might run some unsync'd with friends. Really though, I play to relax, and the inherent stress and pressure of 8 people learning the raid content and gearing is not compatible with that IMHO.

Some will say that the reason players don't raid is because they are not good enough. I'd counter by suggesting that perhaps those who choose not to raid are better, and know their limitations.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

..oh and I also don't like dealing with people who overuse the term "meta" for everything. It doesn't making video gaming sound scientific or complex- it's just irritating to me. It's become a generic term that gamers throw around because they either hear it used by others they think are "hard core" or they want to sound "hard core".

Or maybe I am just sensitive to it after years of seeing it.

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You're being meta sensitive over "meta"....how very meta of you. ;)

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

**snip**
So, what do you do when you wind up with someone who just can't cut it in your group? If your group is coldly professional, you drop them and get someone else. But then, you're in a coldly professional group, which lacks a lot of the joy you get when you're on a team full of buddies hanging out and having fun. If your group is a bunch of warm buddies having fun, on the other hand, it can be very hard to tell that weakest link that they have to leave. Then there's the rare team of warm buddies that HAS no weakest link - that's the ideal everyone aspires to, but it is so, so rare...

That, I think, is why the raiding community is as small as it is. The bulk of them are all business and there to get the job done, having ruthlessly culled any members that happen to fall short of their expectations, with a scattered few teams of buddy groups who happen to be lucky enough to have a full team of skilled players. Neither set is very keen on the idea of welcoming new members - they have a team that works, and so they're going to stick to it. This means that any new teams have to assemble themselves from the morass of wannabe raiders, and doing so is a long and frustrating process that drives many potentials with legitimate talent to simply give up.

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In my opinion this has been the case since at least November 2013, and the raid community has evolved and refined itself in the manner you describe since then. I remember a very impassioned topic here way back then about the negative impact that the static groups of raiding were having on friends, Free companies and other social groupings. I've seen nothing to contradict that old post over the years, and your description of how a raiding community refines itself simply reinforces that. It's not that anyone means for the negative impacts to happen, no one sets out to break friendships over gear drops or failed mechanics, but over time those things can poison relationships and break up friendships.

That said, perhaps that is in the nature of raiding and you're better off not raiding with friends? I don't know, it's harder looking from the outside in. I have several friends who used to raid and burned out, then left the game and I have seen FC members leave for no reason other than their raid group demanded it. So, raiding doesn't have a very good reputation with me.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

..oh and I also don't like dealing with people who overuse the term "meta" for everything. It doesn't making video gaming sound scientific or complex- it's just irritating to me. It's become a generic term that gamers throw around because they either hear it used by others they think are "hard core" or they want to sound "hard core".

Or maybe I am just sensitive to it after years of seeing it.

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This is a really weird thing to be annoyed by and a really weird reason for being annoyed by it.

I used to raid. I raided, retired, got the itch again, raided some more, then retired again. Currently retired and most likely will stay that way.

Why don't I raid anymore? I'm tired of the gear treadmill and quite burnt out on that. I just don't care about gear anymore.

In the end, I no longer see the benefits of raiding as an acceptable use of my time.

Besides the story line, if any I see no real benefit. Weapons and gear are more of a glamor to me, and Relic based light farming would be the only reason if I go into one. Right now not that many reliable people.

Why I raid:
I initially tried it for the challenge, and discovered I loved it. I like to push myself for technical expertise, and as I don't really craft, gather, and became turned off by the relic, it was something for me to do, and do well. I remember the months I spent taking my own initiative to learn and clear T5, and in the end, the friends I made made me realize I inspired and taught them along the way. Our first T5 and T6 are precious memories for me, especially from a time I belonged to an FC that was largely very casual and not nearly as motivated as I was. I loved the Coil aesthetics, and the story; the only actual goal I had before Heavensward was to clear Coil, and I'm glad I did.

Why I'm less interested in raiding now:
I originally typed out my Gordias to Midas era story, but simply put: the shrinking endgame raider community on Goblin - and in part, the expendable sense of party member searching - began to alienate me. Many left for Gilgamesh (word of mouth saying the grass is greener over there), and what was left of our endgame raiding community became incredibly isolated, out of necessity. I'm in, but flying under the radar as I always seemed to. People know I'm good, know I'm helpful, but I don't seem like a top draft pick, nor are there many teams even looking for people these days. I am currently in a group again, a fun group of knuckleheads that struggle, but get the job done, and that's fine with me. The important part to me is we're together, victory or defeat.

Sitting out of Midas also gave me time to get back into PvP, and that's where I REALLY look for my challenge these days. PvP isn't scripted, mistakes can, will, and do happen, but aren't as damning, and it's an avenue I can both shine personally, and truly be part of a team, fixed or random. I make videos of it too, highlights, funny moments, and I've gradually begun writing guides. For me, this is the right fit, especially where raiding began to lose its appeal.

As the pitchfork-raising addendum: I bloody hate FFLogs. I mean, great tool for improvement if you use it for it, yes. But largely it's become an irritating talking point, and a circle jerk for the attention seekers. In fairness, I definitely care that I do a good job. That really is important to me. But I don't care if you do it faster. I don't care if I do it better. I don't care if X job or Y person is doing Z more dps/healing. . . I really only care that my team puts the work in and gets the job done, together. Spare me the personal skill/worth metrics. Until being one of the first/among the first to clear something matters for rewards, I could care less.

I raided in EQ1 up through the PoP era, when the power/usefulness of raid gear would last longer than the next xpac. MMOs aren't like that anymore, and every xpac mudflates the gear way beyond anything you ground out all those raids for, often in the first couple hours of new xpac questing. That's the model of selling xpacs, so why raid beyond seeing the content? Unlock boss, see boss, kill boss. No need to do it more than once, since the next xpac will gift you way better stuff for simply buying the box. RL concerns also cut into it, but even if I had unlimited free time, I'd only do raid content a couple times at best, and then do stuff like max tradeskills, level alt jobs, goof around with housing, etc.

Raiding is simply too time consuming, and has very little ROI when you know the next xpac will essentially invalidate it.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

Like my initial comment about people who think their accomplishments lose all value the moment the masses can do it easier than they did, I find such a mindset toxic to a positive gaming experience..

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Really. many people would say the opposite is true. it's been proven that handing awards out to everyone devalues them in the long run... it's the same thing in every aspect of human life. the more common something is the less value it holds... and it's no different in games...

if content maintained it's challenges and rewards then players would rise up to the challenges if they wanted the rewards. the result there would be that the average skill of the player base would likely increase, and that can be seen as a very positive thing for the game and the entire community.

compare that to what we have now. where players can be terrible and still get everything. there's no strive for them to improve and that creates the huge skill gap that Yoshi has expressed concerns about. what the current system does is essentially promote laziness. why rise to the content when we can sit on our ass and let the content drop to us...... that massive skill gap is probably more toxic to a positive gaming environment because it actively rewards bad play and that skill gap is far more damaging to the game than keeping rewards behind a challenge that wouldn't get nerfed over time..

one could then argue that is this current environment that exists has fostered the " toxic no bonus" culture that exists within the game.. because of how large the existing skill gap between players is... and that impacts content on the whole. recent content such as zurvan normal for example is almost impossible to fail...

and because its impossible to fail there's no real satisfaction or reward for clearing it even at story level. and if the game isn't rewarding players won't stay playing.... which is again is not a positive gaming enviroment

Surprised by the amount of "I don't raid because I don't want to/too time consuming", I mean I know raiding wasn't the large part of the player base but I didn't really know the ratio between other options like couldn't, didn't get to that point yet, and such.

Would be interesting to see SE run an official poll on end game content. I guess it's no surprise that a lot of MMOs are letting their raid scene down a little, if what is here is in a general sense (that people can, they just don't want to). Would love to see how many can but don't want to because of horizontal vs vertical, or if its literally "wouldn't do raiding no matter what you added to the game". Need more numbers - this is fun to read, go SE poll us, poll us really hard lol.

(Not suggesting to abandon the raid scene all together, just curious if a company used their numbers to reveal people's personal reasons why they played certain ways - we already know most don't raid).

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Really. many people would say the opposite is true. it's been proven that handing awards out to everyone devalues them in the long run... it's the same thing in every aspect of human life. the more common something is the less value it holds... and it's no different in games...

if content maintained it's challenges and rewards then players would rise up to the challenges if they wanted the rewards. the result there would be that the average skill of the player base would likely increase, and that can be seen as a very positive thing for the game and the entire community.

compare that to what we have now. where players can be terrible and still get everything. there's no strive for them to improve and that creates the huge skill gap that Yoshi has expressed concerns about. what the current system does is essentially promote laziness. why rise to the content when we can sit on our ass and let the content drop to us...... that massive skill gap is probably more toxic to a positive gaming environment because it actively rewards bad play and that skill gap is far more damaging to the game than keeping rewards behind a challenge that wouldn't get nerfed over time..

one could then argue that is this current environment that has fostered the "no bonus" culture that exists within the game.. because of how large the existing skill gap between players is... and that impacts content on the whole. recent content such as zurvan normal for example is almost impossible to fail...

and because its impossible to fail there's no real satisfaction or reward for clearing it even at story level. and if the game isn't rewarding players won't stay playing.... which is again is not a positive gaming enviroment

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This is really well put, and I'm glad you touched on that fact. In order for the community, and thus the game to truly grow, this has to change. I have hopes for Stormblood, but they are admittedly low.

For me i Used to raid but after the group took over a month just to clear A11S and with closing college deadlines i just stopped. Havent really found the energy to start raiding again but thats more to do with looking more towards Stormblood and new content rather than current content.

Also just burned out from raiding and cbf looking for a new team xD

Tried it once, It was okay, but it wasn't my thing in the end.

When I still did, it was because I was having fun with friends. I stopped because drama erupted and I don't play games for unnecessary dramatics. Ended up quitting for a good year, maybe more. Came back recently and no longer savage raid because I don't have the time to commit to a static anymore, don't want to pug savage content, and am having more fun with just extreme primals and the freedom of not having all of my in-game time devoted to raid prep.

I work third shift and my availability for a static is almost non existent in NA. I would go play with the japanese but I think the language barriers would create too many problems raiding. I'm not really fond of this tier styled raiding scheme either. People who decide to join/raid later into the game will have to catch up to all the people towards the end before they can join a static usually unless they are lucky enough to find others who are just starting to raid.

The PF experience is sometimes rough with extreme primals. I don't even want to see what its like with savage honestly.

I don't raid because of regular calendar issues and not getting much personal satisfaction out of it (and therefore wanting to do other things with my time).

In this game, Crystal Tower is RAID, everyone did Crystal Tower, so who is not a RAIDER? ^^?

SE named some 8men boss fights as RAID really makes some players feeling very good, very pro, very satisfied.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

In this game, Crystal Tower is RAID, everyone did Crystal Tower, so who is not a RAIDER? ^^?

SE named some 8men boss fights as RAID really makes some players feeling very good.

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Generally "raider" refers to people who do progression raiding in some form, not anyone who has done at least one piece of content technically classified as a raid.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Really. many people would say the opposite is true. it's been proven that handing awards out to everyone devalues them in the long run... it's the same thing in every aspect of human life. the more common something is the less value it holds... and it's no different in games...


if content maintained it's challenges and rewards then players would rise up to the challenges if they wanted the rewards. the result there would be that the average skill of the player base would likely increase, and that can be seen as a very positive thing for the game and the entire community.

compare that to what we have now. where players can be terrible and still get everything. there's no strive for them to improve and that creates the huge skill gap that Yoshi has expressed concerns about. what the current system does is essentially promote laziness. why rise to the content when we can sit on our ass and let the content drop to us...... that massive skill gap is probably more toxic to a positive gaming environment because it actively rewards bad play and that skill gap is far more damaging to the game than keeping rewards behind a challenge that wouldn't get nerfed over time..

one could then argue that is this current environment that exists has fostered the " toxic no bonus" culture that exists within the game.. because of how large the existing skill gap between players is... and that impacts content on the whole. recent content such as zurvan normal for example is almost impossible to fail...

and because its impossible to fail there's no real satisfaction or reward for clearing it even at story level. and if the game isn't rewarding players won't stay playing.... which is again is not a positive gaming enviroment

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Maybe I am just weird then cause I just don't agree with this mindset. What might be easy for me may be challenging for someone else, but either way, what I do/accomplish/acquire has nothing to do with anyone else. I don't compare myself to others to determine the worth of my accomplishments. I simply appreciate them for the doing of them.

If you don't find satisfaction from something because its "impossible to fail" I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you're just too good? What's easy to you may be quite difficult for others.

I find satisfaction in all kinds of things, both easy and difficult. I do however tend to shy away from difficult things that are repetitive like weekly savage raiding. When I engage in something difficult its to accomplish a specific goal. Like say getting a mount from an ex primal. Once I have that mount, I'm not going back with any sort of regularity, unless I agreed to help other people get mounts as well. But my satisfaction from accomplishing that goal is not diminished in any way if they make it easier to get later on. My accomplishment is not diminished because what I do has nothing to do with what someone else does. If you let the worth of your accomplishments be dictated by how it compares to others you're basically engaging in a never ending dick measuring contest. I can't live like that.

I do agree that if a game isn't rewarding people won't keep playing... but the same is true if the content is either too difficult for the majority of the population... or even if its just so tedious that most players don't want to be bothered with it. Game developers have to develop the lion's share of content for the average player. Without the "scrubs" to keep the lights on, the elites won't have a game to play at all.

I heal in FFXIV primarily because none of the dps classes are appealing to me... and that stems from the complexity of several of them. I'm good at healing though, good enough to do savage raids if I were so inclined. I just don't want to cause I'm not really interested in that sort of content. As for dps, I can't handle the finger gymnastics many of the dps classes require and positional attacks beyond "be behind the enemy" is just too hectic a playstyle for me (so yea Monk is out of the question). Bard was somewhat appealing until Wanderer's Minuet entered the equation. BLM less so, but became far worse with Enochian, which is thankfully going away in SB. I'm holding out hope that Red Mage might be the dps job for me, but I'm not optimistic. I'm not "skilled" at finger gymnastic/hectic/twitch play. That's why I avoid games with "action" combat like Tera. Where I do have some skill is in my situational awareness and ability to quickly learn encounter mechanics. I may screw up the first time but I rarely repeat a mistake once I've seen how a mechanic works. Maybe there's a lot of people like me that just don't gel well with how many of the dps classes are designed, and since dps is the driving force of encounters in this game, that might be why there's so many "bad" dps out there, not because they are "lazy" and waiting for content to "drop to them".

Maybe you're really good at that sort of gameplay, but not everyone is and not everyone can be. I will never be good at that sort for thing. It's the same reason I could never master playing the piano. I just don't have that type of coordination... and I'm almost certainly not the only person out there like that. That's why I heal. It's something I am good at and I still manage to dps quite a bit while keeping my groups alive. Heck I've even been praised for doing good dps as a healer.

Just to be clear though, players can't "be terrible and get everything"... at least not unless they are being carried by others. "Bad" players can't get savage content down when its current.... and if they go back and do it an xpac later... who gives a flying fart in space? Your accomplishment isn't diminished in the slightest by that and if you think it is I say there's something wrong with the way you think. "Bad" players aren't getting into progression statics, or at least not for very long. Sure "bad" players can get an ilvl approaching that of "good" players but player power is ultimately a goal everyone wants to achieve, and a large gap between those who engage in raid content and those that don't is definitively not healthy for the game. So the "good" players will just have to be satisfied with a slight ilvl advantage, cool mounts, titles and glamours, and getting all that stuff while its current while the "bad" players have to wait till they outlevel and outgear the content and hope that mechanics still don't cockblock them just to get some of that out of date glory.

Again if your sense of accomplishment is predicated on how it compares to others, then you're doing it wrong as far as I'm concerned.

i was a raider in wow and other mmorpg, it was extremely time consuming, was often leading to drama that was draining the fun from the game.

- why i don't raid anymore? i don't have the static...
- why i don't look for the static? i'm on Ragnarok, enter a static in middle of a raid cycle is not possible.... or very hard.
- why you don't make a static? because i don't have a lot of friend ingame, the drama i have mention before have make me warry of other player and raider in general (no offense)
- you don't like challenge? i do like challenge... but i don't like the mindset some raider have... i like to fail and progress, i know it can take time and don't go smoothly... some people will need more time to adapt to a fight or mechanic. but for some elitist, it's unforgivable, maybe some of you don't remember or haven't seen, but i still remember the 1 error = kick PF message... how you want people try to join the raiding community when you see this sort of message?

what you think is needed to change for make you raid? honestly? raid at 8 savage don't interest me, i want to enjoy the game, but when challenge create drama and toxic community i prefer avoid it.

plus i think FF14 lack a massive part of it content, we come from group at 4 and directly jump to raid to 8.... the content at 4 are rarely hard, nor challenging, it's hard to train our own capacity of player in content to 8... FF14 lack a challenging content at 4, means as training and entrance to raid to 8. i will take a good example from WoW Vanilla, my raid was using Zul gurub that was at 20 for train for raid at 40. it was easier to create a teamplay like this, make people know each other in smaller group can make bigger group far easier to work together. but in FF14 you directly jump into raid at 8, story are not hard enough for be a good training ground.
we need in FF14 a challenging content to 4... something that will force player to play together. to learn to play them class in the best... you can't expect people become better if all the content to 4 is freaking easy!

plus add a content challenging to 4 can maybe make people meet other one, create more community than simple guild... because ls have loose a lot of them utility that we was using in the V1. some people out have FC that don't raid, by lack of people and don't want to leave it... then ls can help them... but for this they need to meet and train together! training in raid at 8 is the worst idea ever, you can't master your class if you are not in small group into hard and challenging content, forcing you to play at the best!!!

Mostly just scared to do super hardcore raiding. The most I've done has been 24man and EX primals.
I still haven't done Zurvan ex. However, Sophia is super fun (I love the music), and I have been enjoying that fight since it released.
I'm also rather shy, so theres a lot of fear in my head when considering raiding. Furthermore, its usually my friends who push me to go out of my comfort zone. Its a Paradox! _xD
Lastly, Stormblood is almost out, so I might as well wait until then if I am going to do it.....right?

I used to be a pretty avid raider, and have won competitions from doing so, this is one of them http://dn.cherrycredits.com/greendragonresult. While raiding teaches you how to be a better player, I think dealing with the conflicts isn't easy, at some point I felt like it wasn't worth the effort dealing with replacing players, rivalry, dramas, having my meals late, rescheduling , during the competitions we would raid for 17-19hrs a day at one point we did it for 2 months straight, etc.

To me since I have experienced the price that comes with fame I no longer feel anything towards it, furthermore you worth and fame only lasts either as long as the content lasts or the longevity of the game. I'd like to use the hours I have lost on more important things in life now, getting back to basketball and sports in general again, my studies and work - being able to have full control my time and life. Raiding is fun don't get me wrong, but being burnt out is what leads you to dread the game. Real life responsibilities will catch up with you whether you like it or not and raiding requires alot of time and possible making
you to miss out on your social life depending on what your team demands. Right now I enjoy playing console games, because you don't need to manage people, you can play at your pace without having to wait for others or to accommodate.

;)I raided hardcore in ffxi for ten years , by time I got to this game I was burnt out, also ffxiv isn't rewarding like ffxi even though it took longer to get things but once you have obtain it was an accomplishment ffxiv doesn't have the same feel content is to short in this game so all your hardcore raiding an gear you worked to get will be trashed when the next update comes out every three months I believe yoshi p should never made that every three months to come with new patches it's killing the game,so the percentage of players will not attempt to try savage content or some like my self don't see the purpose in it or for others there's a huge skill gap which certain players will never get to that skill to down things such as savage or new raid content when some players are just to lazy an it shows in the content we got the last three years sadly..

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Originally Posted by Zhao

Mostly just scared to do super hardcore raiding. The most I've done has been 24man and EX primals.
I still haven't done Zurvan ex. However, Sophia is super fun (I love the music), and I have been enjoying that fight since it released.
I'm also rather shy, so theres a lot of fear in my head when considering raiding. Furthermore, its usually my friends who push me to go out of my comfort zone. Its a Paradox! _xD
Lastly, Stormblood is almost out, so I might as well wait until then if I am going to do it.....right?

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For reference sake, if you can do Sophia EX, you can kill A9S and probably won't have too much trouble learning A10. :D

As for waiting, I'd recommend the opposite, actually. If raiding does interest you, then getting your feet wet now will only help. Echo allows for more slip ups with mechanics, which can be extremely helpful for inexperienced raiders. I don't know what the Primal scene is like, but Aether has plenty of learning groups. Best thing to keep in mind is wipes will happen, some may even be your fault. Try not to let it get to you. Every raider, regardless of their skill level, goes through that process before it all "sinks in." Just need to jump in and give it a shot.

I would love to raid, I live for challenging game content. But I work full time, I have friends and family that don't game that need me around. I just don't have the time/motivation to devote to it at the end of the day, and no one is interested in learning content with a "filthy casual" lol.

I do the ex trials to collect the birds, (only one left!) but other than that, I don't have the nerves or time to do savage. I don't feel it as rewarding. Gear is easily replaced and all too quickly, no story to keep me on the edge or interesting mounts to personally motivate me to grind the fights.

I did FCoB progression when that was a thing in 2.4, and that was probably the most fun I've had in the game. We were pretty casual about it and initially had problems with no-shows for raids, but once that was sorted out it was brilliant and made me a much better player than I was before.

Alexander really didn't interest me and the Gordias crap didn't help, so I haven't been raiding in Heavensward - settled for EX farming instead, which is alright. Obviously a lot more frustration with player skill when playing with randoms all the time.

Might be looking into casual raiding again for Omega, but my life looks quite different now than it did two and a half years ago, so who knows.

I used to be a hardcore raider in several MMO's I played before (LoTRO, SWToR, RIFT) and I loved it. But raiding in every single one of these games had some sort of meaning. Best gear, title (hello "Original challenger of Saruman" for first 12 people on server who beat the challenge) etc. In FFXIV is nothing like this. Several reasons why I do not raid anymore (order is random):

- savage gear should be the BEST gear in game, which is not the case. Gear is subpar in most cases with absolutely horrible secondaries (hello DRK sword with skillspeed and parry just to mention one example of many) and even good pieces last for very short period of time so why bother

- without static is almost impossible to beat anything, because people are not able to handle simple mechanics... I cannot count wipes even in weekly clears with "no bonus, bring good dps etc"... its just frustrating

- if you are lucky enough to get static with friendly people, you have to plan all your game activities around raid schedule = you have no time to do other stuff, and I want to do what I want, when I want to.

And some more which were mentioned already several times in this thread so there is no need to put it here again.

I don't raided coz I dislike scripted PvE fights - much preferred PvP where you play spontaneously. Also I don't have the time to invest into static.

I don't raid. Not anymore at least.
When my old FC decided to start raiding, things got out of hand very quickly. We had three raidgroups and the amount of drama we had to deal with was just unbearable.
Talking behind backs, badmouthing others and jealousy were some of the main problems we faced.
People who I thought I was close to grew very distant over time, which I can understand, since our raid'leaders' were actually provoking and supporting the drama instead of trying to solve the problems, thinking the 'competition' would motivate us.
Well...it didn't...
Another factor was certainly time. We only raided on the weekends, and had strict rules about attendance. If we would be absent even once, we would instantly be replaced.

Long story short, all of the groups have split up. And I'm done with raiding for good. Ex bosses and 24-man runs are enough for me and I can enjoy the game even without BiS gear :)

I raid because I want to experience all game content (preferably before nerfs), challenge myself and see how well I can perform (also compared to others on FFlogs). I also love being part of a team that faces and conquers the challenges together, supporting each other.

The negative side of raiding for me has been trying to schedule the raiding times, which is why I'm not planning to organise any raiding in Stormblood. I'm also not sure if I will be able to raid regularly in SB because of my schedule and living conditions (travelling between two countries), but if possible I will join a raid group organised by someone else or try solo raiding through party finder.