Is our sub fee not enought

It's so nice to see how people are now spitting on the CS when a while back it was just "oh stop it, it's just recolors and and past event items, it's never gonna be exclusive things !"

I think it's quite cute how the straw that broke the camel's back is an emote.

Does anyone remember the outrage that happened when they started all this when they made their first shop exclusive with Sleipnir mount? Lots of complaints while poeple said it was fine, just 'optional'. We warned this would happen. Accepting their very first item would only lead to more and more exclusive items for cash shop which is dumb in a sub game. For everyone saying you're not forced to buy buy these optionals items, do you realize a lot of people play to collect these and marketing takes adventage of this? I believe it has become an internet meme by now comparing how old games vs new ones are, but it's true. This is the lazy way of implementing items instead of making them rewards for actual content. Imagine going to a restaurant, which you're going on your own without anyone pointing a gun at you, then you saw this fancy ad about food you really like and they offer such food so you decide to go there. The restaurant has entrance fee and once inside you can eat whatever, but then when you're eating that dish that goes with some sauce, they tell you to pay extra for that sauce but it's fine because it's optional, right?

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Originally Posted by Worldofwarcraft

No it's not enough. It's enough to cover expenses

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It does more than just cover expenses.

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Originally Posted by Worldofwarcraft

People complain, but those same people end up buying it anyways

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No we don't.

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Originally Posted by Worldofwarcraft

Also I mean 15 dollars a month really isn't much for a company.

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It's plenty when multiplied by a quarter of a million.

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Originally Posted by Celef

It's so nice to see how people are now spitting on the CS when a while back it was just "oh stop it, it's just recolors and and past event items, it's never gonna be exclusive things !"

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Well.. the developers have only said it will never have p2w items. They never promised anything else.

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Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

The restaurant has entrance fee and once inside you can eat whatever, but then when you're eating that dish that goes with some sauce, they tell you to pay extra for that sauce but it's fine because it's optional, right?

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Lol there are restaurants like that. Pay for a buffet and you get to have all the salad, pizza, soup, chicken wings and fizzy juice you want. Ice cream, coffee and pie costs extra. You get to leave with a full stomach in any case but you have to pay extra for some flavors. There are also a lot of buffets where you eat anything but you pay for drinks that aren't water.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Well.. the developers have only said it will never have p2w items. They never promised anything else.

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Was not talinkg about the dev team but the players :)

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Well.. the developers have only said it will never have p2w items. They never promised anything else.

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Yeah, but, they're planning to sell experience points for money soon. I consider that p2w, you might not and that's fair enough but hopefully we can all agree we're rapidly leaving a small shop with only minor cosmetic stuff in it way behind.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Lol there are restaurants like that. Pay for a buffet and you get to have all the salad, pizza, soup, chicken wings and fizzy juice you want. Ice cream, coffee and pie costs extra. You get to leave with a full stomach in any case but you have to pay extra for some flavors. There are also a lot of buffets where you eat anything but you pay for drinks that aren't water.

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Do they add hose prices for extra stuff once you're inside after you paid though or were they already advertised? :]

I don't have a problem with selling emotes, but I think the value proposition is skewed a bit. $7 per emote per character is already kinda jank, and in one case you're selling an animation that already exists in the game to begin with. It's kind of like asking people to pay $5 or whatever the cost is for really bad event wallpapers. People won't pay that much for a mobile game if it looks crummy, but for some reason the value gets shifted around here.

Ultimately you're asking for around half or over half of someone's monthly subscription fee here, yeah, it's "optional" and "glamour" and "doesn't affect anything" but I can't help but feel as a player that for $7 I'm not getting my money's worth (even though that's the price of a lunch or something), and I say this as someone who buys Hearthstone packs which makes it feel even more bizarre. You'd probably get a few more people begrudgingly buying if it was account-wide at least.

I'd like to see emotes and other fun one-off things appear in game first before being shoveled off to the MogStation for sale personally. These could have been veteran rewards, or a fun side quest where you teach people to play dead in case of bear attacks, or whatever else.

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Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

Do they add hose prices for extra stuff once you're inside after you paid though or were they already advertised? :]

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It's clearly priced and defined in the menu at the entrance. Just like mog station items are clearly priced on the page and what the sub fee gets you is clearly defined in the agreement we all sign. Despite what you insinuate the agreement has never said SE is bound to deliver everything they create for just the sub fee. Hence the extra cost on the CE items, early access items, merchandise bonus items, Fan Fest items and Mog Station items (which are all the same thing btw so logically you should oppose all or none of them). It's nothing but wishful thinking to assume those cosmetic things come with the sub. It's like going to said restaurants, ordering your buffet meal and then complaining how it's "bad business" that you don't get dessert along with it even though you knew precisely what you were getting.

I don't really understand the forums, you guys always whine and moan to have already existing content added into the game and usable my players, half the questions at Q&As are the want of outfits/emotes that you'll only use once or twice, be it original or pre-existing. So why is when they do as requested, you all leap and grunt like rampant gorillas because of the pricing? You /know/ it's going to be expensive, you /know/ 99% of the time it's tweaked assets already in the game. There's a phrase in the creative media community, "Speak with your wallet", if people /don't/ buy the expensive items over an extended period of time, then either the price goes down or Cash Shop items stop. If you all keep buying, well then, you can fill in the rest, adieu.

i think if it was past event item, it can go into mog station, but it should be able to obtain in future event too
i remember the very early moonfire faires, you could obtain last year event item
what i suggest, event item can go straight into mog station, and next year event,
so it will be you miss it? either pay for it or wait for next year event, I think it would be fair enough

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Originally Posted by Tsunenori

You're offering even less than the empty complaints some other people are making, and on top of that you're copy/pasting this in multiple threads. Last I checked this is a forum for discussion, and that's what people are doing. Or have you forgotten that this game exists today because of the feedback that players provide?

Feel free to troll other threads if these bother you so much.

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You're right, i should try to troll another thread cuz this one is definitively not, just a party with salty player complaining about something ridiculous :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Jandor

French people suck at trolling even more than they suck at the game :rolleyes:.

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But actually ingame, if we compare achievement, things done : me > you. Does that mean you suck more than someone like me ? :rolleyes:

I do dislike how some items are "single character only", Why not make everything account wide :/

What really sucked was the Minfilia hairstyle... I can't even select it for my retainer!

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Originally Posted by Zanarchy

But actually ingame, if we compare achievement, things done : me > you. Does that mean you suck more than someone like me ? :rolleyes:

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Not if you got carried :rolleyes:.

I'm not a cash shop fan, but I don't hate it either.

Weren't the emotes specifically made for the Chinese/Korean Cash Shops? If so, is the argument "Unless it was planned as part of the base game, don't make it." I believe these items were never intended to be available through in game actions. Doesn't mean that they would not have added them one day. It could also mean that other things like the singing emote that we will get in game, may not have happened.

I understand wanting everything and wanting it as part of our subs, I also understand the idea of a company making something only to be offered as a premium add-on to existing items.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

I'm not a cash shop fan, but I don't hate it either.

Weren't the emotes specifically made for the Chinese/Korean Cash Shops? If so, is the argument "Unless it was planned as part of the base game, don't make it." I believe these items were never intended to be available through in game actions. Doesn't mean that they would not have added them one day. It could also mean that other things like the singing emote that we will get in game, may not have happened.

I understand wanting everything and wanting it as part of our subs, I also understand the idea of a company making something only to be offered as a premium add-on to existing items.

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As far as I am aware, these were not region exclusive.

It is frankly annoying that we have to pay for NEW ITEMS and not simply event items/emotes from past quests/events. This isn't a good thing in my opinion especially if they are going to LOCK THEM one per character. This is majorly wrong for those of us who have multiple alts. Alts get no love in this game whatsoever.

I agree with the OP with regards to the pricing and it being per character. I am also sad to say I am not surprised this would happen eventually with the cashshop. people pay money in the cashshop, then there are more things...in the cashshop.

I love this game, and I'm always happy to support it. I buy cute glamours and emotes from the mog station without much fuss.
But I do wish that when you bought something via the Mogstation, then it would be applied to all your characters. I see no real reason to limit your purchases this way.

Remember that time people stopped romanticizing what their subscription fee entitled them to?

The only real complaint I can get behind about the CS is the fact that most of the items are one-per-character-per-perchase.

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

Yoiu don't "have" to get anything from the mogstation... I dunno where people get the idea they are forced to.

Sure I don't like the fact there are things being added soley to the mogstation but it is no where near necessary to obtain them. Wanting and needing are two very different things.

If you buy them then you really should be looking to yourself as the problem.

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Eh there is a line to cross though. I can understand putting "unique" pieces like Scion gear and Odin's mount as mog station items, since they want the rarity of those items to remain but to do the same with 2 playful emotes is a bit overkill. These two emotes should be obtainable through game and it's really disappointing that they chose to put them in the mog station.

You don't want to spend money?

Well guess what, you don't have to!

The forum salt sometimes...

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Originally Posted by SilkaN

You don't want to spend money?

Well guess what, you don't have to!

The forum salt sometimes...

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And guess what, a lot of them wont either !
Let people complain, it's fair.

It's another begining of new stuff being added in the futur that you'll never see in game for free... it's a bit of: "they crossed the line" tho...

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

Yoiu don't "have" to get anything from the mogstation...

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You're right, so they play on peoples need for wanting something or those who need things to be complete. There were threads over the minions at one point. I'm sure there will be one for other things, having just looked at the mog station after a long time I see backflips and play dead.

Someone is going to say "Take my money!" and..as long as people are willing to give money they will continue to do it. Not very common for people in all forms of business to give away something for free all the time that they could normally get paid for.

This argument isn't new, but as long as you complain but pay money in any way it will fall on deaf ears after going up so far the business chain. Eventually it will go to "Sir, they're upset." "Are they not buying?" "no..we've sold a ton" "so..are they unsubbing?" "no..." "fail the see the problem."

Personally, I think they should give the ones who pay a subscription a chance to gather the items, like they did for lightning. Though, to someone higher than the team working hard on this game sees it as wasted chance at getting money. For me though, if it wasn't part of the game I probably wouldn't have Snows attire.

Anyways, it isn't going anywhere because it is encouraged in some way. Good luck to you all! Maybe they'll add in some things to the game to give you a chance!

I wait for the day SE puts something in the cash shop that people that are saying "you dont have to pay for it" really wants. :) Just so that we can see them complaining on the forums how bad it is and telling them that they just dont need to buy it.

Really we are paying monthly for this game. Lets make a short (not 100% accurate) calculation: If there are 200k actives subs and each one of those pay 15€ per month this would make it 3 Million € per month. That would make around 36 Million € per year. This is completely without any cash shop money and it might be more or less depending on numbers but I would say that this is quite a good number..On top of that they already get the money from the extra retainers and the fantasia that people buy.

I feel really bad if SE cant create content with that amount of money..I mean if they can only exists by selling us more and more cash shop items..wouldnt that mean that the future of FF14 might not look so good?

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I feel really bad if SE cant create content with that amount of money..I mean if they can only exists by selling us more and more cash shop items..wouldnt that mean that the future of FF14 might not look so good?

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Pretty sure I read somewhere once that Mogstation profits go to SE not to the FFXIV Dev team.

I don't even get into these CS arguments... I'm not a digital hoarder, and place value in my own progress and actions in the game, not how many shiny seasonal/cash shop exclusive baubles I have hanging off my character like a Christmas tree.

Tons of one off things I'm missing despite having played the game since launch in 2010, and my enjoyment of the game doesn't suffer in the slightest from it.

Subscription fees do not entitle you to anything other than access to Square's game servers. Threads like this are nothing new, the vocal minority will always have something to complain about, whether its cash shop items, classes being announced that aren't in the roles they wanted, or 24 man trials that get turned into trash mobs :^)

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Originally Posted by seraf

Pretty sure I read somewhere once that Mogstation profits go to SE not to the FFXIV Dev team.

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Well all the money that is earned will probably go to SE and not the dev team since they are a big company. And from all the money that SE earned the dev team will get a budget that they will have to work with. So there is a high chance that all we do with buying these things is making more money for SE itself.

@Seig345+ Kuroneko_Jutah: Well I dont raid and I love collecting pets and mounts, I also like to glamour my character..yet if I want a complete list I would need to buy something for real life money. At least for me this makes the game a little less enjoyable..also where does it stop? Raid is only done by a small percentage of the player base. So is it alright if they put this content behind a paywall too? Glamour is to some what raiding is to others. Why is it acceptable to have to pay for glamour but not for raids? They might start with only those items in the cash shop but I fear what they will put there in the future..

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Originally Posted by Alleo

*snip*

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I do actually agree that more of these types of items should be made available through other means, or at the very least brought down to a reasonable price. But I'm not picky about how I spend my entertainment budget. If I want something from mog station badly enough, I will pay for it. As far as I'm concerned, I'm supporting my favorite game in this way. I'm not going to sit here and point fingers at Yoshi for a decision that was in all likelihood made by someone else entirely, and more to the point, someone who doesn't report to him.

In that case wheres our in game parsers we been asking for, why not put it in the mog station, so ppl can buy it up and realize how much they suck and actually learn to play instead of requesting more mog station exclusive.

It's sad when F2P games have a less exploitative payment model than a sub based game.

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Originally Posted by Kuroneko_Jutah

They don't want to put a parser in the game because they're (rightly) afraid of someone breaking into it and reverse engineering the damage formulas so they can manipulate and exploit them.

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I'm sorry, what?

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Originally Posted by SundayTrash

In that case wheres our in game parsers we been asking for, why not put it in the mog station, so ppl can buy it up and realize how much they suck and actually learn to play instead of requesting more mog station exclusive.

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They don't want to put a parser in the game because they're (rightly) afraid of someone breaking into it and reverse engineering the damage formulas so they can manipulate and exploit them. But why am I bothering to tell you, you'll just call it an excuse and continue your angry ranting from your e-soapbox.

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Originally Posted by Roda

It's sad when F2P games have a less exploitative payment model than a sub based game.

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Except for the part where most F2P cashshops actually rely on Pay2Win items for the players to buy and manipulate aspects of the game to entice the P2W gambling mentality in order to make more profits. Some companies such as Aeria Games are the most notorious for this.

I'm not buying this...it's a bit questionable as as a legacy player to see this.

To me, I happily supported the game when it needed it, but this is just greedy. First it started with making people pay for past event items, when they used to be in vendors, now never before seen emotes are in there instead of quests.

Easily have the money to buy it but I feel this is truly crossing the line. If I wanted a free to play game, I'd go find one. Might as well at this point..or no game at all if this is the direction of P2P games. I am really, truly losing interest between this and the so called ultima fight. :( makes me sad because I've loved this game for so long.

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Originally Posted by Kuroneko_Jutah

They don't want to put a parser in the game because they're (rightly) afraid of someone breaking into it and reverse engineering the damage formulas so they can manipulate and exploit them. But why am I bothering to tell you, you'll just call it an excuse and continue your angry ranting from your e-soapbox.

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Fearmongering isn't gonna win you points.

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Originally Posted by seraf

Except for the part where most F2P cashshops actually rely on Pay2Win items for the players to buy and manipulate aspects of the game to entice the P2W gambling mentality in order to make more profits. Some companies such as Aeria Games are the most notorious for this.

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Nope. (Notice I didn't say all. There are better companies than Aeria and nexon out there) Not wildstar. Not gw2. Not only are their shops mostly cosmetic with sprinkles of convenience, you can earn everything with enough in-game play.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Fearmongering isn't gonna win you points.

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The part about people using an official parser to reverse engineer or datamine how damage formulas work is actually a legit concern for SE and is probably one of the reasons they have been reluctant to add one at all.