Again, all you mention is your own opinion, your own standards, your own perception of what is okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure3ify
By your standards, you might've been able to clear that dungeon.
By the standards of 3 other people, you weren't helping enough.
But in this entire topic, you haven't given two craps about helping the group more so I don't expect you to start thinking about that now.
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02-13-2017, 07:50 PMBrian_
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02-13-2017, 07:50 PMMeridaQB4B is not mandatory especially in 60 dungeons. Also she would not have been able to que if she didn't meet the requirements. I don't have B4B yet on my alt are you saying I should expect to be kicked? Because I can assure you that my MCH without B4B is doing more than satisfactory damage. I am still learning the class but my friends say that I am in the top 5 on any dun scaith run. Don't assume they are doing bad damage because of missing gear of classes. I have know many people who try hard and do much better than their overgeared counterparts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Venoshock
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02-13-2017, 07:52 PMBlackCrossYes, how dare we expect from a mentor to teach, give tips and maybe have the patience to help a newbie through a dungeon which may (horror of all horrors!) take 5 minutes longer!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02
And how dare we expect of them to say to OP: "Before next dungeon, make sure to level lancer to 35, it gives you two vital skills for dps" instead of immediately kicking.
My bad for being such a hater of the poor, abused mentors I guess -
02-13-2017, 07:53 PMPaahNo you seem to misunderstand. It is the OP who keeps claiming their damage was bad because their gear is low. Not because perhaps they were playing their class wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeridaQ
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02-13-2017, 07:55 PMVenoshockNice straw man bro, I was responding to the fact that you brought up that mentors shouldn't kick and actually give advise in which I said nobody is defending the mentor for not doing his job. When I said 'OP cannot be surprised to get kicked' was because they didn't have adequate gear and didn't have the cross classes that if they even cared about their role, they should have done the research and got them by level 60.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCross
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02-13-2017, 07:56 PMMeridaQYes that is there catch all, but at the same time it is valid for the person report the group for harassment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rita1989
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02-13-2017, 07:57 PMVenoshockI might have used a strong word to describe the need for the ability, sure it isn't mandatory in the same way tanks need provoke, and you can do good dps without it, but at the same time you're willfully gimping yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeridaQ
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02-13-2017, 07:58 PMRita1989Yeah but SE probably added that catch because they decided not to deal with these cases harassment would only apply if they were being abusive before they kicked themQuote:
Originally Posted by MeridaQ
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02-13-2017, 07:59 PMDriavnaAverage ILvL is average, yeah some slots had more weight than others and people should focus on those first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Venoshock
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02-13-2017, 07:59 PMAmeliaVervesI did the Quest for becoming a Mentor, so I guess I am one of them. Yet, I do not wear the crown, so except for Mentor-Roulette, noone can see I am one.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCross
But guess what, just because I am Mentor, doesn't mean I know everything! I don't know every needed CC Skill for every class. Am I bad mentor now? I do like to help others and I explain things, even without the crown showing. Am I good mentor now?
In the end it's just a quest and those are just players like everyone else. Human beings who can have bad moods. So instead of blaming a mentor for not telling you how to get the best out of your class, maybe it is also your job to find out things by using goolge? ._.
I do agree to you. There are d***bags out there and they misbehaved by just kicking, but you should not expect others to know your job.
And please stop this exaggerating, it's not leading anywhere but into people being offended. Try to stay calm and respectful and bring up logical statements and reasons, instead of meaningless blaming. ^^
BTW OP is wearing tank accessories.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCross
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02-13-2017, 07:59 PMReinhaOh, you already have a 250 weapon? :O Sorry, I didn't bother checking your gear before. Weapon damage is the most important aspect of your gear so going by that alone you are geared enough for the instance. If the weapon had been 150 then the effect would be totally different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure3ify
Actually after checking your gear I see you've used a few tank accessories which might be what gave the mentor a bad impression about you. It's not good form to boost your item level with off-job accessories. However, I actually went and calculated what stats you'd have at the minimum item level. You would have 720 dexterity at ilvl 200 with one 210 ring (using full Aiming gear), and currently you have 776 dexterity and far superior weapon damage. By no means are you undergeared for the instance despite using some vitality accessories. The people giving you crap for that are simply wrong.
The only thing you were missing in that dungeon was cross class skills and in my opinion that doesn't have a big enough impact to warrant a kick from a normal mode dungeon. Normal mode raid though, maybe. -
02-13-2017, 08:00 PMMeridaQNo read back at the comments, the assumption was made and projected upon the OP that there damage was bad. There is no way we can check whether it was the OPs damage or the other DPS/Tank/healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paah
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02-13-2017, 08:03 PMBlackCrossThey had adequate gear for the dungeon, they just aren't helplessly overgeared for the dungeon like most people are at the moment. They cannot get new, better gear if they can't complete dungeons. How are they supposed to gear up otherwise?Quote:
Originally Posted by Venoshock
Also, I agree that those skills are important to do their job, but at the same time, I expect mentors to tell new players that instead of insta kicking. I mean, I once had a co-tank who had no provoke on Alexander NM and it was painful so I do know. -
02-13-2017, 08:07 PMMeridaQAnd after she was given that advice she will most likely work toward it. Given her time constraints it might take a couple weeks but that's fine and I would hope she didn't get kicked for not having cc skills when she is still leveling for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Venoshock
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02-13-2017, 08:15 PMLone-wolfe-02Don't say 5 minutes longer so lightly, it's only 5 minutes yes but people are very defensive about time being wasted. They were well within their right to kick for playstyle differences, ask any GM.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCross
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02-13-2017, 08:16 PMFreerider
I think we are missing something important here. maybe we should offer op a different kind of advice. Because at the end of the day you can only improve your play. So first better gear: market board has gear that goes as high as 250. Next let's talk about improving dps, even if they don't want to cross class anything does Op know all of their own skills and what each one does at level 60 my guess is maybe not. So let's talk options Op has that some of us older players "mentors" didn't starting out. Stone Sea and Sky is a great example that didn't exist when I started playing, and is a great way to learn the rotations. Next up hot bar set up, does Op have the skills they truly need set up in a way they can get to them? I play on ps and it took me a bit before I could click through 3-4 bars comfortably, so they should set their priority skills first. I mean there is many ways to improve you just have to take small steps.
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02-13-2017, 08:16 PMDeithwenYou cheated the Ilv requirements by equiping Vit gear instead of Dex gear. Not only that but you don't even have the mandatory cross class skills for a DPS, not even invigorate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure3ify
I also suspect that you have no clue about your rotation, hiding behind the excuse of "being new". Well at this level and playtime I'm affraid you can't really use that excuse anymore.
I would have kicked you as well, but I would have explained it to you why though. -
02-13-2017, 08:17 PMJunseiKei*Considers.*Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
Alright, I'll give you that. However, their follow up posts don't exactly reflect your sympathy, so while considered, I have a hard time buying into the logic. I had even stated, in my first post when I was sympathetic to their plight, that they met the minimum ilevel requirements and all, they should be fine. It wasn't until I looked them up and saw they lacked things that contribute to the real reason of why they are being kicked. I say real here because we are not given all of the information, so it could simply be worded that way to garner to 'mentors suck' mentality, made all the more enticing since this is currently a trending topic on the forums.
There is something else at play here. The devs do design things for people to catch up, while having also said at one point that they are many players that are just not good. A good player in minimum gear can easily pass mechanics and fulfill their role. A bad player that is overgeared may still be kicked for playing poorly and contributing to mechanics being failed, though it would be harder to pin point it's their fault because of the gear. However, once it's noted that DPS is low, and especially if you've played the class/ know openers, it's very easy to find out exactly who is causing the issue. I'm still not saying it's justified to kick for low DPS, despite all this. -
02-13-2017, 08:18 PMVenoshockYeah, I know. I never once said I was in agreement with a mentor outright kicking without giving advice first(according to OP). I would of told the OP what they needed to do if I was that mentor. What I'm getting at is that people on this thread HAVE done that and the OP is being incredibly argumentative WHILST using their 'New player' status to defend themselves instead of being humble and taking advise or shit, even asking how to get better.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeridaQ
The attitude the OP has displayed so far, in my opinion is self-centered, and unwilling to learn. What put the cherry on top...multiple cherries on top was calling someone offering advice, an elitist and saying how it's their sub so they can play how they want. -
02-13-2017, 08:21 PMSylveDone more to prepare for it? Do you mean you want them running instances below their current ilvl that give barely any Lore for days on end so that they can overgear a duty so that YOU can get through it 5 minutes faster?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_
The process in XIV is bloody simple.
You get the minimum ilvl for a duty.
You run that duty over and over until you have the gear from it and enough currency to get better gear.
Once you have the minimum ilvl for the next duty, you move to that and repeat the process.
The OP Met the minimum ilvl. Attempted to run the duty and was kicked.
How in the hell do you expect this player to get better gear if they are literally being blocked from doing the content that will allow them to get better gear? -
02-13-2017, 08:32 PMBlackCrossThat I can agree with. I mean, I do expect mentors to at least try to give advise. If someone is then rude and says something like "I play the way I want" or "shut the fuck up" then yes. Kick is justified. But if you just kick without advise, without trying, you can't call yourself mentor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Venoshock
Someone above said they can't be bothered to learn other people's job, but then, why even become a mentor? I don't expect mentors to know all lvl 60 rotations, but if you don't want to teach other people, or you just want speed runs, then you shouldn't be a mentor.
It's ok to want fast runs, but then don't pretend you are a good mentor. Just be a normal player. Also, no one wants to waste a huge amount of time, if someone is just auto attacking or an ice mage and they don't take advise, kick is justified. If someone is doing correct rotation but doesn't do the same damage yet as someone 30 ilevels higher (or more), then kicking them as mentor is just being a bad mentor. -
02-13-2017, 08:37 PMMeridaQYes I agree the OP has gotten defensive, but it took a bit. The first part seemed that they were more shocked and confused then several responses were worded in the not so helpful manner and then it turned into a match of stubbornness. I would also have given them advice if we had qued together and worked from there. The only time I ever kicked someone for "low dps" was in ARF where the DPS would not aoe and attacked every 30 seconds. The kicker was the first boss where they put up buffs and didn\\\\'t attack till after they fell off. :3 Most of the time when I ask "would you like a suggestion?" People say sure if not I keep quiet. The dungeons are not hard so :3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Venoshock
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02-13-2017, 08:38 PMReinha
I just had an idea that might be useful for gearing up (although not sure if it's been mentioned yet). Hunts! If you have any fc members who could give you a hunt LS invite you would have an easy time improving your gear. Accessories cost 55 centurio seals and a head piece costs 70. It would take 4 S-ranks or weekly B-ranks to upgrade the ilvl 150 pieces. The weekly B-rank is soloable and you can get the assignment from Ishgard, Forgotten Knight pub. Here's a list of the rewards for different types of hunts: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...e_Hunt#Rewards
But again, you had more than the minimum requirements of dexterity and weapon damage for the instance so this is more for future dungeons.
Late edit: I actually realized I had some recently leveled alt jobs that could use some hunt gear, better get grinding! Lol. Also ran out of posts for today so replying to a further post:
But if you add up her dexterity and weapon damage she has more than you'd get from full Void Ark gear + Ardent accessories (ilvl 200). She also has a higher item level on the pieces that actually matter, i.e. left side and weapon, and an average of 202 item level. How come Ariyala puts her gear at effectively i179?Quote:
Originally Posted by JunseiKei
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02-13-2017, 08:41 PMJunseiKeiARF is better to run than SK for lore. If they're up to SK, they've access to ARF. Would have said Gubal Library HM, but you need to speedrun it to make it lore per time spent more efficient than ARF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
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02-13-2017, 09:21 PMBeckettConflicting play styles has been confirmed by GMs to be an acceptable reason to use the Vote Kick function.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure3ify
The key point here is that you complained about a Mentor kicking you. Most of us took that to assume that you would rather the Mentor had done his job as a Mentor and explained to you how you can improve (primarily by getting your necessary crossclass skills). From your reactions in this thread, it's pretty obvious that if the Mentor had done that instead of kicking you, you would have yelled at him, and instead of this thread complaining about mentors, we'd get a thread from that player saying something along the lines of, "What's the point of being a mentor if new players refuse to take advice?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure3ify
Fair enough, but you have to work to do the basic content as well. You need to take those few hours that you have and improve your character before you can do even story content (or else get a group of friends that don't mind carrying you). If this were the equivalent of a single player RPG, you would not be able to clear this story content at your current level, and would need to grind before challenging it again. If you don't want to/are unwilling to put in the (very small compared to other games) grind, this game might not be for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure3ify
As an example in this game, I remember doing an early Conjurer class quest, and not being able to clear it. I met the ilevel and level requirements to enter the duty, but I could not clear it. Just being allowed to enter did not entitle me to a win. I had to level up more and get better gear before I was able to clear that quest and move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure3ify
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02-13-2017, 09:30 PMJunseiKei
Actually, having looked over the gear again, you are wearing some fending gear there. According to Ariyala, your gear is effectively i179, queuing for an instance that is i200 bare minimum.
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02-13-2017, 09:46 PMBrian_ARF gives more lore than anything else. And, the TC isn't cheating his way to over the minimum ilevel for that and the sync would make his gear less of an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
Hunts are also the most efficient means of gearing up at the moment and nobody is going to kick you from a hunt group because of your gear. Hell, the TC would even get scriptures from that.
For Christ's sake, any type of PvP is synced so TC's gear wouldn't be an issue and you can grind out multiple pieces of i235 gear in an hour. What's even funnier is that people might actually praise him for wearing fending accessories. The TC could even work towards his garo mount while getting that gear.
Give me the TC's character for 2 hours and I will give you back an i240 character without just raiding the MB. If you asked here or elsewhere for advice instead of wasting your time on a garbage topic like this one, maybe people would've been able to tell you how to gear quickly. In the time TC took defending his nonsense, he could be 20 ilevels higher. But, like I've pointed out already, this is his mindset. Blame others, play the victim, ignore your role and the importance of self responsibility and self improvement.
Getting gear in this game is so incredibly easy that the lack of gear is just a sign that you don't care. Is that fine? Sure. But you not caring doesn't mean that the 3 other people on your team shouldn't. -
02-13-2017, 09:52 PMCrysten
OP "knows how her job works" but looking at her Lodestone page and the thread in general:
OP doesn't have her subclasses
OP is wearing Fending accessories on BRD
OP is artificially inflating their iLevel
OP is offered constructive advice and plays the elitist card in response
This is exactly the attitude of someone who doesn't give a shit, and exactly why I stopped being a mentor.
If the OP was in my party and gave me the same attitude as she's been giving everyone else, I'd boot her too. -
02-13-2017, 10:46 PMEmerald_Swords
The requirements should be more rigorous in becoming a mentor . At this point in time, the crown has no value due to the negative behavior alot of them seem to have. An application should be submitted and your activity should be monitored throughout that time period to ensure that you're a right fit for the title.
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02-13-2017, 11:06 PMSmallHobbitthis is a game not homeWORK! ppl play it for relaxing and enjoy the gaming time, dont make hard WORK out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_
if you want do it make work out of it please make it only for your self, if you dont like the ppl you get via DF, run the stuff with your friends or you can play the game alone soon.
and please dont tell me when new content comes out you are wait until a guide comes out xD i am pretty sure you just run it right away one hour after release and you are also have no clue about the new content and you dont care about.
SO WHY THE HELL YOU EXPECT other ppl to watch guide for old dungeons? to watch guide for dungeons it sounds like a bad joke for me xD no idea how ppl even think about stuff like this just ridiculous.
as long tanks and healers not wearing DEX gear to reach the min. ilvl (like left side full ilvl 130 and right side ilvl 270 DEX gear xD) for the content everything is fine and no reason for a kick.
regards hobbit -
02-13-2017, 11:12 PMClethoria
This is why I do 100% personal parties. Go ahead, look up my lodestone, all you'll see is my casual hang out clothes. (provided the thing isn't stuck on Botanist again) I always think that first timers are in it just for the story, and I dont think Alphinaud is really looking at the WoL with judgmental eyes thinking "Hmmm, mayhap they can increase their DPS..."
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02-13-2017, 11:24 PMNeophyteQuote:
Originally Posted by Rita1989
The marked part is the most important one.
You have to know: Even if a item bumbs your ilvl, it doesn't need to be a "upgrade".
If you equip a VIT ring (for tanks) ilvl 205 and achieving an average ilvl of 205, your real (role-related) ilvl is more close to 187 !!!
Using gear for other classes (e.g. with no mainstat for your class) is considered "cheating the system" and people get kicked for that alone.
Also white stuff is just plain bad, once leveling is done.
Go to Ishgard, get your ***-daily hunts and weekly hunts. Those will give you 175 seals (on the first day), a right side item ilvl 200 costs 55 seals.
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Yo...(DoW)_II#Sells -
02-13-2017, 11:28 PMJunseiKeiThe issue is with dungeons that have minimum ilevel caps, SE takes into consideration all stats, not just main. The reason being the main stat given from fending lends you nothing to DPS as a BRD (VIT), all you're gaining is CRIT off those fending stats (and one case of skill speed). Dungeons have almost nothing in terms of accuracy and it's a dead stat once you meet the cap for whatever you are running.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
The stat formula is Weapon Damage > Main Stat > First Favorable Secondary > Second Favorable Secondary > Least Favorable Secondary. You only opt for something in favor of secondaries when it outweighs the weapon damage (in case of weapons) and main stat AND the secondaries lost over another piece. This is where knowing stat weights for your particular job is worth knowing. -
02-13-2017, 11:29 PMLeigaon
I wonder just how slow the dungeon was actually going. Well there's no way to tell because the OP got kicked before the first boss. From their last comment on the first page this person seems to have the idea of BRD and the abilities leading up to it.
Then again, people using mentors in any way at all is a big mistake. Still, I just took DRG through to 60 and before I hung up my lance, these dungeons took a bit when you were at or around the required iLV but nothing life changing. Though did have to slow down a tad on some things.
If anything the run may have been a casual progression, not baiting the comets and not taking out the green slime may cause for a bad time. You could point out they are lacking some skills needed, and that is valid. Still maybe the mentor did see that the BRD isn't using blood for blood or skipping out on other cool downs, and not seeing it as them not having it but being lazy. As a new player you get new moves, so you have to get those new moves into your memory to use so sometimes a new player may forget it.
My guess is the mentor wanted to get in and out, done. This wasn't happening, so they kicked the person who was new. Funny could have easily been the other DPS that was causing things to go slow, or they got another new player who really wasn't up to the standards. -
02-14-2017, 12:08 AMbswpaytonAs a mentor myself I think its very messed up what this mentor did and also for those whom are talkin about things you need this is a dungeon , dungeons are the easiest content in the game. You are fine its just gona be lame people that just wana trip about everything Id say just keep tryin to improve ur skills and ignore people like that. Its all about learning you do something enough youll learn how to do it better each time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure3ify
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02-14-2017, 12:29 AMClethoriaPain teaches all of us. Perfected plenty of content with parties willing to sit and talk and actually learned from their mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by bswpayton
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02-14-2017, 12:50 AMBrian_So because the TC didn't put in the work, 3 other people now need to put in more effort than normal to clear that dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallHobbit
And character progression is now considered homework in a vertical progression MMO? What a joke. 2hrs of pretty casual PvPing is now hard work? If playing the game is considered hard work to you, then maybe you should find a game you can actually enjoy playing. You might want to try a single-player game this time around.
I also never said he needed to watch a guide for Sohr Khai. Ask in novice network, FC chat, or anywhere if there is anything you be careful about. Be properly geared (for example, not wearing VIT accessories or i150 gear in Sohr Khai). Know how to play your job. It's hilarious people are saying that's too much to ask for.
And the idea of holding healers and tanks to a different standard than DPS is also idiocy. Just because you are a DPS doesn't mean you get to be carried. -
02-14-2017, 12:58 AMChandraNoctis
If I looked at someone's gear in an end game dungeon (and the only reasons I'd look are if things were dying really slowly or if they had some cool glamour and I wanted to know what it was) and saw that they only met the min ilvl because they cheated the system by using a different role's accessories then I would kick them too.
Granted I would probably tell them why they were being kicked (dps is really low AND they are cheesing the min ilvl requirements). I wouldn't kick just for low dps (although I might if they mouth off when someone tries to provide friendly advice) but I would kick for low dps combined with cheesing the ilvl requirement. -
02-14-2017, 01:05 AMskyfox
Nonetheless, maybe it was not completely saint thing for both mentors to initiate vote kick new people but it require more than a mentor to get actually kicked both time fair and square. You came to this forum for the missing clue why you got kicked. Take constructive criticism from here and move on.
http://imgh.us/changeyourthinking.jpg -
02-14-2017, 01:11 AMBourne_Endeavor
Initially, I was going to play devil's advocate and assume the OP simply didn't realize they needed to level Lancer further for cross skills. It also sounded as though they were kicked instant after the tank checked over her gear. Reading through everything, that seems less the scenario. Since we only have one side of the argument, it's hard to know how his mentor reacted. I won't lie, if I asked you about cross skills and also found out you cheated the ilvl with VIT gear just to sneak in, I'd be tempted to kick as well. That tells me you knew exactly what you were doing: i.e. hoping to be sped through story content. That may not be the case though. If you flat out didn't realize, which is somewhat reasonable for new players, I'd be more forgiving.