Please lift glamour restrictions!

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Originally Posted by Gemina

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Why should there be any further argument besides "we want the freedom to make unique glamours per job"? I want my Dark Knight, Warrior and Paladin to each have a different look. We can already put all sorts of silly outfits on our jobs. In fact, here is my Warrior while I level it:

http://i.imgur.com/xZIEiuO.jpg

Totally keeping with that armour theme, aren't I? Could even swap the pants to the sailor ones and copy the whole set to any job I fancy. Now don't get me wrong. I wouldn't necessarily care if the job specific gear remained the same. But it's a little silly we can put on a halter top yet healers wearing armour? That'll confuse the newbies! I suppose my argument to the devs would be... look at that pic. I have plenty more of outfits that wouldn't traditionally suit the job they've glamoured on-- even ran a bikini on Dragoon for a day after RNG irked me and I needed a good giggle while I farmed Alex.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

The thing is

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I'm not trying to change your mind. However, you need to understand the other side of things and this post isn't focused solely on you.

This is strictly talking about Artifact Armors only as far as my opinion.

A lot of these armor sets are based off the classic franchise designs and are iconic to the FF Series and their respective jobs, with 30 years of history. Thread has talk of freedom and choice, there is also the other side of it for the Company: Creative and Artistic Freedom. As well as Creative Control.

If SE decides to continue to lock Artifact Armors and you dislike it and feel it impacts your glamour options. Then honestly you don't value their Creative and Artistic Freedom to preserve the image of their assets.

I'm not against opening up more armors to other jobs/classes. However, you still need to value the Company's freedoms as well.

Many of the examples given in this thread of other MMO's glamour systems, don't have a 30 Year history behind them. Other established MMO's also have rules similar to XIV's system.

I am pretty open to glamour desires, though There is some things I would prefer not to see. NIN in full Wolfram would look really stupid.

Where I draw the line is on specifically thematic sets. These sets act as defining points for the themes, concepts and styles that define the different cultures and histories in the world and give them form and identity. If you just throw things like that to the wind it erodes that sense of identity and in turn kills the richness of the world. I very much take issue with that.

So no, your Nymian scholar can't use boots designed by the Allag to help Summoners manifest and control primal manifestations.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

Yes buuuuut, with how glamours work in this game lore wise. It doesn't actually trample on the lore, glamours are merely an illusion spell. Not us actually putting the gear on. We make one piece of gear look like another piece of gear, that does not mean it comes with all the lore behind it. We are just borrowing that robe's appearance, not its blessings and enchantments.

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I don't think any parties involved (eg. Tonberries of Nym, Padjali, etc.) would appreciate having their image tarnished by another group wearing it. Let's also ignore the clipping issues it would have with, say, Dragoon, Ninja, Monk especially...

It's just a can of worms that SE would be better off not opening because it's too much effort for too little gain. AF gear should stay AF gear, everything else is fair game (yes, even the metal wall that is the i90 Heavy Allagan set).

I don't like the idea of any job being able to glamour to share tank specific, caster specific, etc. aesthetics. That's almost more ridiculous than bikini glamours.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Why should there be any further argument besides "we want the freedom to make unique glamours per job"? I want my Dark Knight, Warrior and Paladin to each have a different look. We can already put all sorts of silly outfits on our jobs. In fact, here is my Warrior while I level it:

http://i.imgur.com/xZIEiuO.jpg

Totally keeping with that armour theme, aren't I? Could even swap the pants to the sailor ones and copy the whole set to any job I fancy. Now don't get me wrong. I wouldn't necessarily care if the job specific gear remained the same. But it's a little silly we can put on a halter top yet healers wearing armour? That'll confuse the newbies! I suppose my argument to the devs would be... look at that pic. I have plenty more of outfits that wouldn't traditionally suit the job they've glamoured on-- even ran a bikini on Dragoon for a day after RNG irked me and I needed a good giggle while I farmed Alex.

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Would you prefer they do away with the glamour system entirely then? Releasing tons of Lv1 items to be used for glams IS SE showing some leniency. Those bikinis, sailor suits, reindeer costumes and so forth don't belong to any specific role, job, or gender. That is why you can glam them. If you want to look silly in the role you choose, they HAVE given you this freedom. It's a different story when you want to start to use glams to make yourself appear to be a role you are currently not playing.

Diversity is not a bad thing, and freedom to do whatever you want isn't always a good thing. I believe the time and energy of the devs is better placed on improving the glam system in the areas that it is the most troublesome. Currently those issues involve inflated armories, and not being able to give multiple jobs of a particular role different looks when unique pieces are the optimal build for the current level.

Again though, I am not opposed to new items being released that are more flexible with how many classes can equip them.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

I'm not trying to change your mind. However, you need to understand the other side of things and this post isn't focused solely on you.

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While I agree with you on a history but because this is an mmo and to stay competitive in the market their have been alot of accommodations that has steered away form traditional ff games. The new coming jump potion is one of them I couldnt imagine them doing that to their new release ff 15, but they will with game because its an mmo.

Ive even heard that traditionally drk was a dps, but in our game they are a tank so if they can make huge changes like this I dont see why they cant do the same thing with gear. Because of the uniqueness of doing every class on one this game should have one of the best glamour systems compared to any game because you have 13 different jobs you can draw glam from and it would be nice to mix and match all of them together as we desired, the devs have shown that lore takes a back seat to money when they implemented the new potion we are gettin, Im fine with that this is a business first.

Others dont seem to be , but because of the lore step back I dont see why gear would even be a factor at this point, if they can change a whole job and change it from a dps to a tank, but a healer cant wear an Armour chest piece?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Would you prefer they do away with the glamour system entirely then? Releasing tons of Lv1 items to be used for glams IS SE showing some leniency. Those bikinis, sailor suits, reindeer costumes and so forth don't belong to any specific role, job, or gender. That is why you can glam them. If you want to look silly in the role you choose, they HAVE given you this freedom. It's a different story when you want to start to use glams to make yourself appear to be a role you are currently not playing.

Diversity is not a bad thing, and freedom to do whatever you want isn't always a good thing. I believe the time and energy of the devs is better placed on improving the glam system in the areas that it is the most troublesome. Currently those issues involve inflated armories, and not being able to give multiple jobs of a particular role different looks when unique pieces are the optimal build for the current level.

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Actually, I would very much fancy they do away with the current glamour system and adopt a wardrobe feature similar to most other MMOs. I'll admit, the removal of glamour crystal levels makes things far less cumbersome, but it's still an archaic system overall.

Anywho, the point was illustrate their very stance is immediately contradicted by this allowance. I do agree this needn't be first on the list of glamour improvement. That was even my initial post in this thread: let us have different glamours for each job even if they share gear. That doesn't mean this isn't worth adding to list. If they're going to allow bikinis, then just let us glamour whatever. The artifact gear? Sure. That is iconic to the jobs from Final Fantasy's history. I have no real issue with it staying unique. Everything else ought to be fair game.

Glamour restrictions should be lifted for everything BUT Job attire, I wouldn't want to see a Black Mage wearing a White Mage robe for instance, that's just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

The thing is if you level the job you are that job regardless, if what your sayin is true then dont let us level everything on one character then and nobody wants that. How can you say lets play every job on one but then restrict the gear. What if I simply wana play mypalidan as a whm with a sword in my head its called player freedom and SE gave us that when they made it to where you could put every job on one character. They dont explain it so why cant we use our gear to explain it ourselves if we chose to do so. What is the point in restricting the gear there is none, you have the choice to play every job as one so why act like that choice doesnt exist if a ninja wants to wear a whm robe and that person leveled whm then its nothing wrong with them wearing it.

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Incorrect. You are that job only when you equip the soulstone and/or the weapon associated with that job. What you're saying would be true if you were all the jobs you leveled simultaneously. Perhaps you are in your mind, which is just fine. However, the game does not recognize this.

The gear is not restricted to you. If you want to wear it, you have to level the respective job to the appropriate level to do so. That is the restriction, and we don't hear a bunch people saying, "Hey! I'm a warrior. What's with this level restriction? I should be able to wear everything available for a warrior." You are essentially saying the same thing with wanting to remove role restrictions on gear.

This freedom thing just isn't a good argument, because this is SE's game, and they too have the freedom to create the rules and restrictions as they see fit. I see this as a case where you give an inch, and a mile is taken. SE released, and is still releasing tons of lv1 glamours that have no restrictions other than having to complete the quest that allows you to glam. And now we have a lot of players who want role restrictions removed from gear so they too can be used for glams.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Would you prefer they do away with the glamour system entirely then? Releasing tons of Lv1 items to be used for glams IS SE showing some leniency. Those bikinis, sailor suits, reindeer costumes and so forth don't belong to any specific role, job, or gender. That is why you can glam them. If you want to look silly in the role you choose, they HAVE given you this freedom. It's a different story when you want to start to use glams to make yourself appear to be a role you are currently not playing.

Diversity is not a bad thing, and freedom to do whatever you want isn't always a good thing. I believe the time and energy of the devs is better placed on improving the glam system in the areas that it is the most troublesome.

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The point though, is that those level 1 glamours are casual clothes. They are generally basic shirts, coats, jackets, ponchos, dresses, and suits. None of them look like heavy armor that a Paladin might wear.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Incorrect. You are that job only when you equip the soulstone and/or the weapon associated with that job. What you're saying would be true if you \.

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Well I have said repeatedly if you are that job then yes you should be able to mix and match your gear as you please. I'm not sayin let everyone just pic what they want you actually should have the job leveled if you wana use their glamour which many people do.
But lets be real SE have the power to do whatever they want .its the players that just dont wana accept change, its an mmo its forever changing. I have found so many players that dont want to give an inch on how things are done, if a tank can wear a pig suit then their is no argument for a whm being able to wear a tank Armour piece.

With this in the game there is nothing anyone should have to say , I mean a pig suit really a chocobo head that SE gives you as a vet reward on a tank come on and so it shouldnt be an issue to wear gear of a job you have already leveled up. What Im sayin is the game should recognize that we are all jobs if that is the case, if they dont want it to be recognized then whats the point in allowing it?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Actually, I would very much fancy they do away with the current glamour system and adopt a wardrobe feature similar to most other MMOs. I'll admit, the removal of glamour crystal levels makes things far less cumbersome, but it's still an archaic system overall.

Anywho, the point was illustrate their very stance is immediately contradicted by this allowance. I do agree this needn't be first on the list of glamour improvement. That was even my initial post in this thread: let us have different glamours for each job even if they share gear. That doesn't mean this isn't worth adding to list. If they're going to allow bikinis, then just let us glamour whatever. The artifact gear? Sure. That is iconic to the jobs from Final Fantasy's history. I have no real issue with it staying unique. Everything else ought to be fair game.

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Yeah, I get what you're saying. But sorry, I just don't feel that because you can tank in a bikini that you should also be able to tank in a healer's set of gear. Again, the bikini isn't specific to anything, while the healer's set is and it just doesn't make any sense to me to take away healthy diversity for the sake of freedom in a game. Many options are available for each role as is, and this is further expanded if you farm dungeons/raids/trials for drops you cannot buy, and if that is not your flavour of tea, then you can look towards the Lv1 options and crafting/gathering sets that are not restricted, which is most of them.

They should not remove restrictions for job specific gear. It's specific designed for the job and it really doesn't need to go that far. There should be some unique to job stuff (we should not remove all restrictions especially since the community is split on this topic, need a compromise) and seeing a BLM wearing the iconic FF series white and red WHM robe is just....so disillusioning :/

Crafted/leveling gear I could deal with if people want it. I don't prefer it since I really don't feel like casters and healers should be running around in full armor, but if I don't like it then I just won't do that on my own characters. I feel most people wouldn't do this anyway though.

Still need to draw a line somewhere though and the line makes most sense at the job specific gear. It was made for those jobs and it should stay for those jobs.

Reading through this thread I keep seeing the same arguement made for abolishing glamour restrictions based on an incorrect assumption in regards to why SE have stated they will not - and that concerns Artifact Armour. Artifact Armour in FFXIV (AF) was originally in FFXI which was also Job specific gear. As well as having bonuses to stats that helped that particular Job, their appearance was deliberately designed to emulate the traditional appearance of that Job from past FF games, within the limitations of FFXI's PS2/DX8 game engine (WHM AF was white clothes with red triangles, WAR AF was red and black light armour etc). That was it's main purpose, to show the 'traditional' identity of that particular Job.

And like FFXIV, you are free to change to any Job you wish (although you cannot do it as freely as here in FFXIV, in FFXI you were limited to changing your Job in your Mog House or by using a Nomad Moogle npc in an outlying town), and despite FFXI also having a glamour system added recently (called 'style lock'), that too is restricted by Job, you change your Job and it cancels whatever glamour you currently have. And the idea of appearance identifying your Job is the reason.

Other non-AF armour I can understand players wanting to glamour freely, but AF must always be locked to that Job only, as if it wasn't, then there is no longer any point to it being AF anymore. A WHM's iconic outfit is a white robe with red triangles, it is not a BRD or a PLD or any other Job. Keep AF glamour locked to Job.

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Originally Posted by Lufir

The point though, is that those level 1 glamours are casual clothes. They are generally basic shirts, coats, jackets, ponchos, dresses, and suits. None of them look like heavy armor that a Paladin might wear.

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That is exactly it. The exact point. They are 'casual' clothes anyone can wear. No one in their right mind would utilize them for combat as they have no stats that makes the item role specific. Role specific armours are not casual, but SE still gives us the freedom to continue to have that particular gear's appearance if you don't like how the next upgrade(s) look on you.

At the end of the day the question is does it hurt your game play when tanks wear a pig suit, what about a bikini which is mention alot, or a chocobo head, or even my tank wearing a mags hat and a skirt? I dont believe anyone can answer that question with a yes, so other than you dont like it you have no answer to the reasons why not, lore is not a reason SE has shown where they will pic and choose where lore is important in the game.

So why do the players act as if it is a golden rule, when the devs themselves buypass their own lore? If they changed gear specific gear we would have a thread like we did on the jump potion and people would soon get over it and forget about it just like some players didnt like that the prism system changed, its not that big of a deal why make it one.

The restrictions should stay, the only thing that they need to do is keep adding some pieces as lvl 1 item for glamour purposes, for example the Uraeus Coat and the Astral Silk Robe that at some point where class/job restricted but now they are available for any job that wants to use them. Is way easier and faster than having to go through all of the pieces that we have currently and change the class/job while keeping the stats. Only ones that shouldn't have to be there are the "jobs only", even if there was some pieces that I would like to use, there should be things that we shouldn't just have, don't be greedy D:

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Originally Posted by AkaiYoru

The restrictions should stay, the only thing that they need to do is keep adding some pieces as lvl 1 item for glamour purposes, for example the Uraeus Coat and the Astral Silk Robe that at some point where class/job restricted but now they are available for any job that wants to use them. Is way easier and faster than having to go through all of the pieces that we have currently and change the class/job while keeping the stats. Only ones that shouldn't have to be there are the "jobs only", even if there was some pieces that I would like to use, there should be things that we shouldn't just have, don't be greedy D:

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The level one stuff is to limited a mag literally has no metal options , but the other disciplines do. All casters can wear is clothe how is it fair that tanks can wear pretty much anything from each discipline but mags get left in the dust

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

The level one stuff is to limited a mag literally[sic] has no metal options , but the other disciplines do. All casters can wear is clothe how is it fair that tanks can wear pretty much anything from each discipline but mags get left in the dust

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http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Light_Steel_Galerus

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

The level one stuff is to limited a mag literally has no metal options , but the other disciplines do. All casters can wear is clothe how is it fair that tanks can wear pretty much anything from each discipline but mags get left in the dust

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Well the one most responsible for popularizing that was the late Gary Gygax, as he was the one who originated that idea of "healers cannot use bladed weapons or mages cannot wear heavy armour that would prove too distracting to cast spells" in Dungeons and Dragons, which computer RPGs and MMOs like FFXIV are all descended from (FFXI's manual even stated that outright in it's Job descriptions for BLM specifically, that BLMs "Cannot wear heavy armour that would otherwise interfere with their ability to concentrate").

Most RPGs still use tropes and ideas Gary created for DnD like exp, levels, stats, HP/MP, character classes and yes, restrictions on those classes. And FFXIV is no different. Once again glamour ties back into that.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Light_Steel_Galerus

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Thats the only option I have that on my drk , and its also not a chest peice like a gladiator would have while its nice but like you guys are sayin dont change anything well at least guy more options then make alot of level one stuff so we can at least have some variety.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Well the one most responsible for popularizing .

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Sigh I just don't understand the pick and chose logic here, when I came to this game I played other mmos where you could pick one job or class per character if you wanted something different run another character pretty much in all of them. I come to this one and find out how unique it is in regards to letting you play everything on one character I thought surely there must be some grand explanation for how this is possible, hah as I continued to play I realized that there was none. People go on and on about lore and what makes sense and what doesnt make sense to why this or that can happen in a game.

But seems I'm the only person that is asking the question how in the hec can my whm no karate, or knows how to box nobody wants an explinaton for this nobody cares about this. But yet this is one of the most appealing parts of the game that you can play all on one, but the game gives you no reason other than you are an adventurer or you are the warrior of light so theres your answer.take it or leave it.

So you are tellin me that Im suppose to worry about a blm wearing an armor chest plate. But Im asked to not wont a connection or some sort of dialogue explaining to me how Im a master of unbelievable magic, and I am a master of the physical combats? To me without any good reason for this then lore can just protain to the story alone and the job quest everything else is free game because the devs didnt care to explain something that so important to their games function.

So its basically like ive said dont give me a reason to how in the heck I even have the ability to cast magic and then to change into a ninja and no a totally different style of combat and not one npc even acknowledges this in the game, but yet I have to explain why I should be able to wear a specific type of gear Im lost here? You cant ask someone to over look something so major and then ask them to understand why you cant wear a piece of clothing due to lore reasons, if lore is that important then they need to go back explain how we can even do what we do in the first place warrior of light isnt good enough.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

It's about letting the jobs keep their visual identity.

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Why? The visual identity is pretty weak as it is - and many jobs share the same gear pieces anyway. Is there some real reason the jobs need some kind of visual identity or is it just "because"?

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

But seems I'm the only person that is asking the question how in the hec can my whm no karate, or knows how to box nobody wants an explinaton for this nobody cares about this.

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I have piano and martial arts in my life.
There's the reason, straight up. It only doesn't make sense if you imply that a martial artist can have no other merit, talent, ability or gift beyond their martial art- which simply probably isn't true.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

I have piano and martial arts in my life.
There's the reason, straight up. It only doesn't make sense if you imply that a martial artist can have no other merit, talent, ability or gift beyond their martial art- which simply probably isn't true.

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oh ok so I guess Gandalf from lord of the rings new how to box as well, like come on if there is no explanation for such a thing then why does there have to be one for using glaming not actually using any gear that you want.

I can use your logic as well Im a whm and a drk so I should be able to have interchangeable gear because they are both in my life right? And surely if I can wield a sword and a magical staff then I know that I could easily know how to pick out my own clothes as well, because thats much more of a novice thing to do than actually knowing several different types of combat Im the warrior of light I wear what I want is the logic right ha.

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Originally Posted by Assirra

Read what i am saying.
I am not talking about a gameplay standpoint, or anything like that.
I am talking about a pure technical mess it would be to create what you want. The glamour system is already tacked on as it is.
Once again, the whole system is based around you showing gear you can wear because somewhere the game actually thinks you are wearing said gear.
Now let's say we simply remove the job restrictions on any peace of gear. You just turned the loot argument into full on wars because it would mean that everyone can need on any piece of gear.
It is simply not just an easy switch and changing this would most likely revamping the entire armory system and everything around out it adjusted. We are talking about a gigantic update, all for this silly glamour.

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So they would have to fix the code. Yes, it would take some work, but I really doubt it is that big a deal - unless the code is really badly written to start with.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

So no, your Nymian scholar can't use boots designed by the Allag to help Summoners manifest and control primal manifestations.

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That's fine, because she isn't. That's not how glamour works in lore. You don't literally equip the gear - you cast an illusion over your current gear.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I don't think any parties involved (eg. Tonberries of Nym, Padjali, etc.) would appreciate having their image tarnished by another group wearing it. Let's also ignore the clipping issues it would have with, say, Dragoon, Ninja, Monk especially...

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Your first point is baffling as far as lore excuses go, and as for point two... I really don't think potential clipping issues should be a concern. Let players mix and match and decide if certain things clipping doesn't float their boat.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Diversity is not a bad thing

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It's not diversity when your options are limited such that everyone of your job is wearing the same stuff.

I also think that this would be a simple fix if they rolled it into a complete revamp of the glamour system (to include all the problems you mentioned).

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

oh ok so I guess Gandalf from lord of the rings new how to box as well, like come on if there is no explanation for such a thing then why does there have to be one for using glaming not actually using any gear that you want.

I can use your logic as well Im a whm and a drk so I should be able to have interchangeable gear because they are both in my life right? And surely if I can wield a sword and a magical staff then I know that I could easily know how to pick out my own clothes as well, because thats much more of a novice thing to do than actually knowing several different types of combat Im the warrior of light I wear what I want is the logic right ha.

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Did Gandalf spend the time to learn how to box? I'm sure he'd know how to box if he learned how to box.

And glamouring isn't wearing clothes/armors- It's the illusion of it, so if you aquired WHM and DRK armor, why not? If you wanna look silly, you do you.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

The gear is not restricted to you. If you want to wear it, you have to level the respective job to the appropriate level to do so. That is the restriction, and we don't hear a bunch people saying, "Hey! I'm a warrior. What's with this level restriction? I should be able to wear everything available for a warrior." You are essentially saying the same thing with wanting to remove role restrictions on gear.

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Even when I do level the respective job (which I have!), I still can't glamour it how I want. But no, wanting level restrictions gone is NOT the same thing. I want to be able to use the gear that I earned. Not nearly the same thing as someone coming in at level 1 and wanting to use level 50 armor as their glamour. (Though to be honest, I have played both Rift and WildStar where there are no level restrictions, and it is quite fun making 12+ outfits for my new character that look awesome.)

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Originally Posted by Miste

Still need to draw a line somewhere though and the line makes most sense at the job specific gear. It was made for those jobs and it should stay for those jobs.

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You don't, actually. Other MMO wardrobe systems have shown that when there are no lines, people are quite happy to let their creativity go wild and create outfits unique to their character. I will never see how folk can think that limiting options leads to diversity - it just makes groups of people look the same.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Then honestly you don't value their Creative and Artistic Freedom to preserve the image of their assets. However, you still need to value the Company's freedoms as well.

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./endthread

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Even when I do level the respective job (which I have!), I still can't glamour it how I want. But no, wanting level restrictions gone is NOT the same thing. I want to be able to use the gear that I earned. Not nearly the same thing as someone coming in at level 1 and wanting to use level 50 armor as their glamour. (Though to be honest, I have played both Rift and WildStar where there are no level restrictions, and it is quite fun making 12+ outfits for my new character that look awesome.)

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Also, wearing a piece of gear and wearing a glamour of that piece of gear is not the same thing. For the first I can see why there would be restrictions. But for just wearing an illusion of a particular piece of gear? No logical or lore-based reason at all.


Personally I am used to the far more flexible system used in Lord of the Rings Online, where using the wardrobe system lets anyone cosmetically equip any piece of gear whatsoever. Still restrictions on what armour etc. you can actually wear and get stats from, but for looks anything goes. Just because it is a newly created character it does not mean one is limited to a mismatched assembly of whatever one happened to pick up.

Restrictions on glamour in this game are just silly - and personally I see no merit at all to any of the arguments brought forward here for keeping restrictions, except maybe the one about it requiring rework of some code, but that is just work.

Haha I just thought about something so if you want job exclusive things for instance should your whm only be able to ride the horse for the whm after all that is an job specific mount.

Are should your paladin only be able to exclusively ride the lion mount that you get because it is connected to the paladin by lore. Yea that argument sounds pretty silly I would think so why does it matter with gear is beyond me. But if everyone can ride them (as someone said with gear) what is the point in having them, because once again you can be every job on one, works with a mount should work with glamour I dont think anyone whos gotten these mounts only rode them on that specific class.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

That's fine, because she isn't. That's not how glamour works in lore. You don't literally equip the gear - you cast an illusion over your current gear.

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You seemed to skip over this bit:

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Originally Posted by Belhi

These sets act as defining points for the themes, concepts and styles that define the different cultures and histories in the world and give them form and identity. If you just throw things like that to the wind it erodes that sense of identity and in turn kills the richness of the world.

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This isn't even about the lore as much as maintaining defined styles and themes which give visual character to the world. Now in some cases it might not seem to make a big impact but if you make it fine for one thing you make it fine for everything and then it becomes a mess.

You already have a LOT of options for boots, and get more every patch. Having one or two models you cant use is hardly extremely limiting.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I also think that this would be a simple fix if they rolled it into a complete revamp of the glamour system (to include all the problems you mentioned).

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Well if your waiting on a complete revamp of the glamour system you might be waiting a while. Unless they have a huge glamour reveal slated for the EU Fanfest, it is unlikely we will see any revamp prior to 5.0. There focus at the moment system wise seems to be their inventory overhaul and their cross server grouping systems.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Yeah, I get what you're saying. But sorry, I just don't feel that because you can tank in a bikini that you should also be able to tank in a healer's set of gear. Again, the bikini isn't specific to anything, while the healer's set is and it just doesn't make any sense to me to take away healthy diversity for the sake of freedom in a game. Many options are available for each role as is, and this is further expanded if you farm dungeons/raids/trials for drops you cannot buy, and if that is not your flavour of tea, then you can look towards the Lv1 options and crafting/gathering sets that are not restricted, which is most of them.

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And why not? Excluding the artifact gear or other ironic outfits to the series as a whole, why is say, Shire gear unique to specific roles? In fact, the crafted gear frequently sees more than a colour swap between multiple jobs. If people want to put armour on their healers, go for it. The argument bikinis are okay because it's normal clothing but Shire armour isn't equally makes little sense. That point is only further emphasised when armour sets do actually exist for healers.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I will never see how folk can think that limiting options leads to diversity - it just makes groups of people look the same.

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Because not everyone is you and shares all of your opinions? I also never mentioned diversity as a reason for my post or my reasons for drawing the line...you picked out the last thing I said without paying attention to the rest of my post.

Some people like having the iconic FF series gear linked to the jobs and job specific gear in general because they love the Final Fantasy series and they love their favourite job and feel like the gear compounds the job's identity and they enjoy that aspect. I love the WHM Orison set so much I almost wish I could use it on any healer but I just don't think that needs to happen because it wasn't made for anything but WHM.

I said the line needs to be drawn somewhere in order to make a compromise to cater to both sides. Open up the other gear, but keep the job specific gear locked to the job still. That way if people want more choices they have a lot more, and people who like to have some gear specific to jobs can keep those (FYI most of the gear in the game is not job specific).

It's called a compromise for a reason; if you ignore one side of it it just becomes selfishness. Other MMOs are not FFXIV so comparing their communities is a waste of time. Most other MMOs are not linked to a iconic series that has been around since 1987 and has certain aspects that make it part of the FF series.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Haha I just thought about something so if you want job exclusive things for instance should your whm only be able to ride the horse for the whm after all that is an job specific mount.

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It's a Conjurer mount, since the quest to obtain it only requires CNJ at lvl 30, and doesn't require unlocking WHM.
The tank mounts aren't tied to their respective jobs by lore, since they're just achievement rewards.

As for the topic at hand, it'd be nice if the crafted stuff could become accessible to all classes. Something like the Cashmere Skirt of Healing (which is just a dyeable version of the skirt from first low level caster set).

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Now in some cases it might not seem to make a big impact but if you make it fine for one thing you make it fine for everything and then it becomes a mess.

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This doesn't follow at all, given past experiences with wardrobe systems that have neither class nor level restrictions on what you can costume. They are hardly a "mess". They are, however, quite fun to play around with when making outfits for characters.

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Well if your waiting on a complete revamp of the glamour system you might be waiting a while. Unless they have a huge glamour reveal slated for the EU Fanfest, it is unlikely we will see any revamp prior to 5.0. There focus at the moment system wise seems to be their inventory overhaul and their cross server grouping systems.

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I don't see why this should dissuade me from advocating a change I believe would improve the game.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Most other MMOs are not linked to a iconic series that has been around since 1987 and has certain aspects that make it part of the FF series.

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Hello, Lord of the Rings Online.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And why not? Excluding the artifact gear or other ironic outfits to the series as a whole, why is say, Shire gear unique to specific roles? In fact, the crafted gear frequently sees more than a colour swap between multiple jobs. If people want to put armour on their healers, go for it. The argument bikinis are okay because it's normal clothing but Shire armour isn't equally makes little sense. That point is only further emphasised when armour sets do actually exist for healers.

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Bikinis and the like aren't even my argument, so I agree that it makes little sense. At the end of the day, it is simply respecting the vision the devs have of their game. The cold hard truth is they want certain gear sets exclusive to the role(s) they deem appropriate, but can still be loose and humorous enough to allow some of the silly glams that are available. I just happen to be on their side of the fence.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

This doesn't follow at all, given past experiences with wardrobe systems that have neither class nor level restrictions on what you can costume. They are hardly a "mess". They are, however, quite fun to play around with when making outfits for characters.

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So tell me, what are your thoughts on cross-class weapon glamours? It would be just a glamour. I might want to be a white mage that heals with a carpenter's saw. I could tell you it would be fun for me, and ask that devs take the time away from their development plans to implement what I believe will improve the game.

I'm hoping that you will draw a line, and understand that people wanting to preserve an otherwise "convincing" fantasy aesthetic actually have a point.