Do roegadyns ever celebrate a holiday?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

demonstrates the point that the artwork is led by player preference, not the other way around, thanks for contradicting your own argument.

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1. Last year's Moonfire Faire art had Lala and Miqo'te, so your point about that is null and void.
2. Where did I say that the artwork dictates if you're going to play Lala or Roegadyn? I said the art discourages those who choose said races because it feels like they're unwanted. And secondly, that the artwork for events is led by the majority, i.e. Female Miqo'te. Where is the contradiction in that? It's speaking about two entirely separate parties.

I don't think I need to say more when I'm being proved by Kosmos992k and Kling-Klang that whatever race is played the most, will be featured first and foremost. :D

So, good luck trying to disprove me when you're living, breathing proof. \o/

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

Now now don't be lazy .

Also it isn't just about other races not being included in the artworks. Sometimes they are included HOWEVER they are always in the background, even Au Ra suffer from this.

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The complete post won't load through my connection at work, only some of the images are visible. However to this point above, Moonfire Faire 2016 featured 3 characters, Rogadyn, Elezen and Midlander female IIRC. So, other races and genders are NOT always in the background, are they?

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

Finally they draw Roegadyn, and they look awsome too!
http://68.media.tumblr.com/a0d1d02d9...amaho1_540.png
wait...
wait no better crop them out, we cant have Roegadyn in our Banner

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To be fair, that banner crops the part of the poster that contains the actual Saucer building and includes Miqo'te and Midlander. but the original poster includes many others and more prominently features a Rogadyn male and Highlander female.

All you are doing is cherry picking, and even then one poster you're using to 'prove' your point more prominently features a male Roe and female Highlander. Once again, other races and genders are not always in the background, are they?

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Originally Posted by ErryK

1. Last year's Moonfire Faire art had Lala and Miqo'te, so your point about that is null and void.

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How? This year featured 3 - Roe, Elezen and Midlander. This demonstrates the very thing you demand - diversity.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

2. Where did I say that the artwork dictates if you're going to play Lala or Roegadyn? I said the art discourages those who choose said races because it feels like they're unwanted. And secondly, that the artwork for events is led by the majority, i.e. Female Miqo'te. Where is the contradiction in that? It's speaking about two entirely separate parties.

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So, you agree that the artwork is led by player character demographics? Good, then where is the argument now? You say that the selection of character races in artwork discourages players. I'll counter with the continual in-game representation of Miqo'te females are easy women, objects to be bought/sold and used. If you really want to talk about representation of characters in game, we can do that, but as a Miqo'te, I can't see how anyone can really deny that Miqo'te, especially females, are depicted in a fairly poor light which is a lot more discouraging to me than the occasional event art.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I don't think I need to say more when I'm being proved by Kosmos992k and Kling-Klang that whatever race is played the most, will be featured first and foremost. :D

So, good luck trying to disprove me when you're living, breathing proof. \o/

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I don't think you mean to, but in a game context, you sound very prejudiced against Miqo'te females on the basis of race and gender. I hope that's not the case, but your posts make you sound like you are.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Snip

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Refresh your page there is more at the bottom.

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

Refresh your page there is more at the bottom.

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I refreshed. I don't know why the producers of those other games elected to use the Miqo'te RSE, That's their choice, but, it's not something in FFXIV. The same goes for the choice of Y'shtola in Dissidia. That's really got nothing to do with how Miqo'te are represented in FFXIV or in the in-game events and artwork.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I don't think you mean to, but in a game context, you sound very prejudiced against Miqo'te females on the basis of race and gender. I hope that's not the case, but your posts make you sound like you are.

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To be honest, yes, I am. I would explain why, but due to it and as a result of it, I dislike the race/gender combination a lot more than I do anything else. The fact that event art puts them in the spotlight a lot more than it does other races... really doesn't help. But again, that's how I see it. Feel free to reply but I'm sure we've learnt our differences now and I cannot be bothered to state anymore why I would like some level of diversity (eg. instead of just a female Miqo'te giving gifts to the children in the Starlight event art, why isn't it a female Miqo'te and a male Roegadyn giving out gifts together? It's a rhetorical statement because I know we'll never get it as a result of so many female Miqo'te player characters. I realize I am being a tad bit defeatist but a part of Japanese online culture also takes precedence as the devs first and foremost cater to JP then the western players... and as far as I'm concerned, a lot of Japanese players love the nekomimi culture...

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Originally Posted by ErryK

To be honest, yes, I am. I would explain why, but due to it and as a result of it, I dislike the race/gender combination a lot more than I do anything else.

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Then I shall save you the trouble of responding further, and cease discussion with you.

One thing I will give you though is this;

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Originally Posted by ErryK

why isn't it a female Miqo'te and a male Roegadyn giving out gifts together?

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Given the real world event Starlight parallels; a big, white haired Roegadyn guy with a beard would be a great fit for the event.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

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Okay so one event, one has a Roe, Elezen and I think a Highlander(wouldn't make sense for it to be a midlander).

I'm a Miqo'te, I like Miqo'te but it's not really cherrypicking when 35/40(random number) events feature Miqo'te as the main character in the art. That's why no one cares about that *one* 2016 event because the other 35 have a Miqo'te. At least Valentine's and Heavensturn tends not to show Miqo'te I think. Even so, the original Valentine's featured Miqo'te.

Little Ladies' Day featured a lalafell Lady(A "little" lady) then in 2016 they added Miqo'te and Au Ra female so it's no longer Lalafell-only yay!

Add up all the art Vejjiegirl and I posted and that's a load of art of events with Miqo'te in the spotlight or closest to it.

Heck even HW art representing all races/genders together has the Miqo'te in the front and Au Ra to the side. The Au Ra males are in the back!

Art
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3959950

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3960720

As for the prostitution/dancer thing, they go to prostitution due to poverty whether it be Ul'Dah, Gridania, or Limsa(we also see midlanders do it. Actually there is always a Midlander there when they are actively engaging in prostitution in-game.)

Miqo'tes are the sex symbol of FFXIV as well as beauty symbol and popularity. When NPCs order "exotic beauties", they are Miqo'te. The "Beautiful Maiden" F'lhaminn, a Miqo'te. Forgotten Springs filled with "Miqo'te beauties". From what I can tell.. FFXIV makes Miqo'te out to be the most beautiful thing in the game. And the player base definitely isnt making that any less true when there are so many Miqo'te females in bikinis.

While Highlanders are seen as trash. Roes are mostly seen as scummy pirates. Elezens are simply haughty most of the time. None of them ever seen like " Oh gods, so beautifuuuuul". Even lalafells are seen as beautiful more often than them. Tataru, Momodi, that high-class lala in the Costa Del Sol Hildi quest. Examples.

This is a much more extreme example opposing an idea (specifically the idea that this issue doesn't matter) and not so much one person in particular, but hear me out: let's just say they removed every race except Miqo'te. Obviously, they would never do this, but like I said, it's just an extreme hypothetical example. Even if you were already playing said race, would that not bother you at least on some level? Wouldn't you find that...boring? As much as I like mine and others beautiful Rogadames, I'm glad all these other races exist because I'm not staring at one homogeneous mass every day I log in. Variety is the spice of life.

Now, let's take a step back and revisit the issue at hand. Even if you don't like the other races, the fact that a Miqo'te is almost always front and center doesn't bother you? At all? Like, in a game with six races, you don't find that the least bit boring? I guess it's fine if you don't, but that just seems...weird to me especially that in a game where the playerbase keeps asking for more and more options to express themselves, they would be fine with the same exact thing always chosen to represent them.

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Originally Posted by Galaktica

Even if you don't like the other races, the fact that a Miqo'te is almost always front and center doesn't bother you? At all.

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Not particularly. I can log in at any time of the day and see cool, awesome, epic fights involving high landers, mid, Elezen, Roe, of both genders. There are many more active NPCs of the above that I just see casually wandering around town, not even counting the hundreds of Roes, Mid, and Lalafel I see on a daily basis. On the flipside? Where are the 'Priviliged' Miqo'te non hostile npc's? Barring one tiny village in south Than, and the archer questline NPC, they're in taverns, bars, dancing in the middle of the street in nothing but undergarments, and that's pretty much the only representation that miqo'te ever, ever see.

Personally, as Promiscuous as SE makes them out to be, being shown in ways that aren't tantalizing or titillating are practically owed to the race at this point.

I rarely (or maybe, never) see any highlander on any event art.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

On the flipside? Where are the 'Priviliged' Miqo'te non hostile npc's? Barring one tiny village in south Than, and the archer questline NPC, they're in taverns, bars, dancing in the middle of the street in nothing but undergarments, and that's pretty much the only representation that miqo'te ever, ever see.

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Y'shtola? Undeniably the most popular character outside of the game given her number of guest appearances and easily one of the most prominent characters throughout the entirety of the FFXIV story itself. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone other maybe Aplhinaud who gets that much screen time.

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Personally, as Promiscuous as SE makes them out to be, being shown in ways that aren't tantalizing or titillating are practically owed to the race at this point.

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Then I'm genuinely surprised you aren't more upset at all the promotional art. If they aren't showing copious amounts of cleavage, they've showing off more than enough leg to make up for it. Sometimes they're doing both.

Look guys, I found the femroe convention! Seriously though, I've met more femroe NPCs than players, and even that can be counted on one hand, if you exclude the GC squadron. I understand why they would forget to include us in promo art on account of our tiny population, but I feel like including them in promo art might draw in more potential femroe players. I've spoken to many people who don't want to play it because it looks "too anime", something that is easy to understand -- after all, the promo art's all catgirls, lalas, and prettyboy hyurs. They don't KNOW that roes, highlanders, and giraffes exist, and don't want to waste time looking for something that they would naturally assume wouldn't be there. I'm not saying it should all be huge armored broes and angry Hildies, just that they should try to appeal to the tiny minority of players that want to be different AND draw in outsiders who realize it isn't Panty Quest XIV.

Thank you for creating this and putting into decent words my feelings so far. It's not just the artwork for even but in gear previews as well (granted gear previews are slightly more diverse, although male Roes are mostly used in them). I only remember seeing a Fem roe in gear previews for Syrcus Tower mage gear and the HW relic tank gear. However memory is a finnicky thing.

I got to the point i avoid looking at the event artwork and just look for the dates. Up until then it used to go something like:
*gasp* new event? let me see if there's a Fem Roe in the artwork! ... Aww...
*gasp* new gear?! Let me see how it looks on my Fem Roe! ... Aww... well... at least there's a Male Roe in there... I guess i'll wait for it to be implemented...

At least I have become blatantly racist towards kitty girls and lizard people, so keep shoving it in our faces SE!

Well, if FFXIV like to represent Miqotes as promiscuous or whores, well it shows in the population as there are too many damn cat-folks! No condoms or birth control in Eorzea equals a ton of kitties.

A couple of positive Miqotes I can think of other than Yshtola is that one cat-guy from the Crystal Tower quest line and even that other cat-guy from the Black Mage quests. The cat-girl from the Amaljaa quest is another good one. The cat-sisters from one of the Moogle quests. Minfillia's mom. There a few good Miqote reps in this game, I just can't remember any names since I'm not good with made up names, but they are there.

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Originally Posted by Schan

I only remember seeing a Fem roe in gear previews for Syrcus Tower mage gear and the HW relic tank gear. However memory is a finnicky thing.

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Yep and the devblog is even worse.
They veeery rarely ever show off anything with a FemRoe/Fem Highlander/Male Highlander/Male Au Ra character Model and almost always a Miqo'te, Hyur, Lalafell, Midlander.
And again the Miqo'te is always the main focus to show things off, while other races are thrown in the back.

(And they only add Male Roes as Joke Characters, that's all they are Gag Races)
http://imgur.com/jHxh3XJ.png

A few examples below:

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...0524_me_01.jpg

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...0311_me_01.jpg

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...0160815_04.jpg

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...0524_me_09.jpg

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...0160606_05.png

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...0908_iw_11.png

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...0930_me_08.jpg
(Cat Tidus)

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...1213_me_01.jpg

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/001494.html

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/001724.html

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/001658.html

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/001632.html

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/001598.html

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/001563.html

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/001500.html

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/001411.html

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Originally Posted by Nestama

But there's not really anything wrong with letting Roegadyn or any other race that isn't a cat/horn girl play the leading role, is there? Nothing wrong with a little difference.

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No one is saying that there is anything wrong with a little difference or diversity; or that there is anything wrong with having representation of all races and genders in the event art. On balance in this topic, the discussion has turned pretty hostile towards female Miqo'te in particular and to a lesser degree female Au'Ra and lalafel. I'm certainly not against having any of the player races/genders in Eorzea on game art, so long as they fit the event. "So long as they fit the event" doesn't mean that they have to be cute or sexy, they just have to be a fit for the event. Little ladies day is hardly an event that will be led by a male Rogadyn, is it?

But the discussion seems to have boiled down to people saying that of course everyone should be in the art at sometime or another, and that they are in fact in the art at sometime or another, and the frequency of representation largely reflects the demographic trends among the player character population. On the flip side, people are railing against Miqo'te and players of Miqo'te as if they have some sort of inherent anti-Rogadyn/Elezen/Highlander/male Au'Ra bias. I don't remember anyone expressing such a bias, although one poster absolutely confirmed race and gender prejudice against Miqo'te.

Maybe the discussion would be a little more productive if people were looking for ways to include more diversity in these events rather than whining and moaning about past event art.

For example, the Starlight obviously parallels Christmas. Who better than a Roegadyn to pose as an Eorzean version of Santa Claus?

In the end though, no one should be surprised that in a game which has a far greater population of female Miqo'te and Au'Ra than Roegadyn or Highlander of either gender, the female Miqo'te and Au'ra are more likely to be used to represent characters in event art than others. That is not saying that it should be that way, nor is it saying that others should not be in the art, it's merely recognizing a reality.

This discussion didn't have to devolve into some kind of us vs them struggle to somehow free the oppressed Roegadyn - as if anyone can oppress Roegadyn - but it did.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

snip

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I would say that other than my previous statement this topic is more hostile towards the lack of diversity in the race representation than towards cat/lizard people but hey if you want to victimize yourself go on ahead.

I've always felt like some races / genders were more prominent but I've always thought it was in my head. Now that I get to see them back to back... it wasn't.

From a company that just caters to the majority and only plays safe this hardly comes as a surprise. I'm surprised it took us that long to actually point at the elephant in the room.

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Originally Posted by Schan

At least I have become blatantly racist towards kitty girls and lizard people, so keep shoving it in our faces SE!

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Oh come on, you can be better than that.

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Originally Posted by Schan

I would say that other than my previous statement this topic is more hostile towards the lack of diversity in the race representation than towards cat/lizard people but hey if you want to victimize yourself go on ahead.

I've always felt like some races / genders were more prominent but I've always thought it was in my head. Now that I get to see them back to back... it wasn't.

From a company that just caters to the majority and only plays safe this hardly comes as a surprise. I'm surprised it took us that long to actually point at the elephant in the room.

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Well now, I wasn't pulling a victim card at all, but that's your opinion, so whatever.

I don't think this is about playing it safe, it's about knowing your audience, if that's a problem for you, then I doubt you'll ever find satisfaction because entertainment companies that do not follow the rule of knowing your audience end up failing.

As I mentioned to another poster much earlier in the topic I didn't have the time or inclination yesterday to trawl back through the various in-game events such as the Starlight festival, Hatching Tide, Moonfire Faire, etc... But, you know what, I spent the last couple of hours doing just that and counting the faces I could identify, and counting the ones that were clearly prominent to the event (if they stood out starkly from the others).

The results are exactly as I would have expected. First of all, the overall spread of appearances of the various races and genders is broadly in line with the race/gender demographics that has been posted earlier in this topic, there is a little variation, but they are in broad agreement.

TL;DR - A few things stand out in the numbers; Roegadyn appear to be least used, Hyur most used, and Miqote (female) are most prominent.

My method was to look at the event artwork on the LodeStone, I included all the annual festival events as well as Breaking Bricks, Burgeoning Dead, Lightning, Yo Kai, Gold Saucer launch, Make it Rain, etc. I also counted the artwork for the Countdown to Heavensward and Welcome to Ishgard. For each event I also checked the images for the reward items for which character race(s) was/were used.

Those who are overall least likely to be included or featured are Female Roegadyn - bar none. Overall, I counted only 4 appearances that I could specifically see were Female Roegadyn, and except for the heavensward countdown, none were prominent.

The most featured race is Hyur, followed by Miqo'te, Lalafel, Elezen, Roegadyn and Au'Ra, although Au'Ra are at a disadvantage having come along 2 years later. If you count only since their appearance in the game there are more Hyur than any other race, Hyur are followed by Miqo'te, Lalafel, Elezen and Au'Ra and last Roegadyn.

Overall Roegadyn are the least likely to be included in the images with a total of only (24 appearances)- this has never been in dispute. Female roe are almost invisible though with only 4 appearances that I could find - if anyone else wishes to do this, and can identify more female Roegadyn than this, I will be glad, but even moving an appearance or two around, Roegadyn still come last in the numbers.

If you look since Au'Ra appeared, Roegadyn are still last with just 8 appearances in the time that the Au'Ra have gathered 16.

Overall Hyur are the race most likely to be in event images, but if we split by gender, Female Miqo'te (36 appearances) just pass female Hyur (34) and male Hyur (34).

In terms of what would be considered prominently featured, as in standing out starkly from the other characters, you will not be surprised to find that female Miqo'te are far and away the most often featured. But, it's not as lopsided as you think. If we only look at the time since Au'Ra arrived in the game(By race);

• the most featured is Hyur with 27 apperances, 4 of which were prominent,
• then Miqo'te with 19 appearances, 6 of which were prominent,
• Elezen have had 17 appearances with 5 prominent ones,
• Lalafel had 17 with 5 prominent,
• Roegadyn have only had 8 with 1 prominent.
• Au'Ra had 16 appearances with 4 prominent ones.

The Au'Ra might have expected to do better, since they were the featured new race in the expansion, but apparently not.

The most popular race/gender combinations in the time since Au'Ra joined us are;

• Female Miqo'te with 16 appearances, 6 of which were prominent,
• female Lalafel with 11 appearances, 4 prominent
• female Au'Ra had 11 appearances with 3 prominent ones
• male Hyur had 12 appearances, 2 of which were prominent
• and surprisingly male elezen with 10 appearances, 3 of which were prominent

I have the numbers in a worksheet, but I am not sure if I can post it here. It doesn't really matter though, the broad trends are clear, Female Roegadyn are almost invisible, Female Miqo'te are used a lot, but then, so are female Au'Ra, female Lalafel, male Hyur and surprisingly male Elezen.

Although the spread of the of appearances I could count is broadly in line with the population demographics by race in Eorzea, when you break it down by gender it's undeniable that Roegadyn females are really neglected, and Female Miqo'te are frequently selected over others for the artwork especially (reward images are more even handed), but it's not as stark as you think when female Lalafel, female Aura and Male Hyur are all almost as frequently featured, and often prominently featured.

If you break down Hyur into Highlander and Midlander, Highlanders are clearly less favored for images than Midlanders, and it's not even close.

Since Au'Ra joined us, in order of least likely to appear we have female Roegadyn, male Highlanders, male Miqo'te and female Highlanders. If you just look at races, Roegadyn do appear less frequently than any other race. Hyur have the most appearances overall, and Miqo'te (mostly due to females) are the most prominently featured overall.

If you read this far, thank you. This is essentially confirming what we already knew and was never in doubt that Rogadyn appear less often, and female Miqo'te appear more often, and are more often prominently featured. This has never been in doubt.

Where the discussion started for me was in regards to the breakdown of player race/gender. there are obvious winners and losers in that and event art and images are bound to follow the same trends. A such, Roegadyn are one of the least popular races and will be less frequently featured.

Why are female Roegadyn, male Highlanders, female Highlanders and male Miqo'te less popular player choices? I don't know, that's player personal choice. Why are those same groups least featured (disproportionately so) by the various artists involved? I don't know, perhaps they like drawing catgirls more?

P.S. if you look at it all since ARR started female Miqo'te have the most appearances overall and clearly the most prominent appearances, with the next best being female Lalafel and female Hyur. To keep things fair, I baselined when the Au'Ra joined the game instead.

"I don't think this is about playing it safe, it's about knowing your audience, if that's a problem for you, then I doubt you'll ever find satisfaction because entertainment companies that do not follow the rule of knowing your audience end up failing."

But it's just seasonal event posters. Changing things up by putting a female Roe and male Miqo'te on a poster isn't going to suddenly make FFXIV fail. Now before you throw my use of "it's just..." back at me, I want to see something that isn't a female Miqo'te again.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

"I don't think this is about playing it safe, it's about knowing your audience, if that's a problem for you, then I doubt you'll ever find satisfaction because entertainment companies that do not follow the rule of knowing your audience end up failing."

But it's just seasonal event posters. Changing things up by putting a female Roe and male Miqo'te on a poster isn't going to suddenly make FFXIV fail. Now before you throw my use of "it's just..." back at me, I want to see something that isn't a female Miqo'te again.

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Indeed. I doubt the in-game event artwork would cause a problem, I was more meaning the fact that female Miqo'te are almost the mascot of FFXIV, so they will likely feature in a lot of artwork and other images about the game used by SE. In that regard, knowing their audience is important as is catering to it. But I agree with what you're saing about event art.

When I started the count I knew I would find many fewer Roegadyn, but I did not know I would find almost no Female Roegadyn. One of my best friends in ARR (no longer plays unfortunately) played a Female Roegadyn, and she was awesome. I didn't expect them to be as rare as they are.

Why is the cat even there? No need for it.
http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...0160606_05.png

http://i.imgur.com/Divi9yo.png?1

Elezen is most used NPC race.
Miqo'te and Hyur (Midlander) are most played races by players (Lalas come in 3rd).
I am waiting for 2016 census to see Au Ra numbers compared to 2015.

As long as I can see Elezens around me I am happy (Even if they were NPCs).

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Originally Posted by Remus

Why is the cat even there? No need for it.
http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...0160606_05.png

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Another question is; Why can't we see the male Au'ra's face? Presuming of course that it is a male Au'Ra under that armor.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

massive snip

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Hmm I was actually thinking that when Hyurs appear in artwork, more often than not they are Midlanders. I considered for a second that with Stormblood we would see more Highlander artwork but... *looks at how HW's artwork has barely any Elezen on it* ... maybe i shouldn't get my hopes up.

Thank you for crunching the numbers for us. I am admitedly too lazy for it (would also have to spend hours googling for the artwork and collecting it all).

Your analysis does confirm my previous statement that they cater to the majority.

Now, lets say they have artwork for 10 events each year(random number). Is it too much to ask for them to cycle through the 6 races as the prominent one? I understand cat girls love looking at themselves 24/7, but what about the other races? As it has been brought out previously some people play a race but they do appreciate the aesthetics of other races, even if they don't see themselves playing them or they can't design a character from that other race that they like (i personally struggle awfully with making cute Lalas and Elezen and I have spent hours on benchmark. I can't make one that suits my tastes for the life of me, although I have seen that it is possible).

So if you take into consideration that the players have interest on the race they play + other races or in other words that one's taste for certain aesthetics is not stricly bound to the race they play wouldn't that even things out a bit? (Granted i'm not expecting Roes to ever be up there popularity wise).

You mentioned that you agreed that having a Roe as Santa would make sense and it would be acceptable since it is faithful to the theme and it makes sense. Now lets say we kept the artwork the same and just changed the person who is handing out the gifts. If you have done the repeatable quests you will learn that the Starlight event actually comes from Ishgard, where Elezen and Hyurs live. Why couldn't they have used that as an excuse to have an Elezen or Hyur as the main focus? Yes, you would have 3 Elezen in that artwork but for once I think that would be okay. I see cats ingame all the time. I see cats in the artwork all the time too. Couldn't they just spice things up a bit, for once?!

Heck, give me a Godbert in a tutu artwork for Little Lady's day. Please don't tell Julyan I said that.

ninja edit: i was going to use the argument of "it's just artwork" as well but then i would have to argue that it can be used against this whole topic and I can't be bothered to type even more >.<

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Originally Posted by Schan

Thank you for crunching the numbers for us.

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Thank you for reading it. I wanted to try to get back to the heart of the discussion which wasn't for me ever about catgirls vs Roegadyn. I've always supported diversity, with the sole caveat that it fit the event. But in keeping with that, the skill of the writers should be able to create plots within the limits of Lore that allow almost anything. For example, a massively buff Roegadyn Warrior who secretly has a passion for collecting dolls could be a good storyline within the context of a Little Ladies Day event.

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Your analysis does confirm my previous statement that they cater to the majority.

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I was truly disappointed by how absent Roegadyn females are, I sort of expected all the other results, but I really didn't expect that, I thought they would be on par with the males, but absolutely they are not.

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Now, lets say they have artwork for 10 events each year(random number). Is it too much to ask for them to cycle through the 6 races as the prominent one?

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We have 4 main cities and only 6 playable races, it should be possible to at the very least have one event a year that falls to each race, and then take turns on the others. I mean, sure, there will always be slots for cat girls in the vending kiosks and the background - dancing in a bikini or something... ;)

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You mentioned that you agreed that having a Roe as Santa would make sense and it would be acceptable since it is faithful to the theme and it makes sense. Now lets say we kept the artwork the same and just changed the person who is handing out the gifts. If you have done the repeatable quests you will learn that the Starlight event actually comes from Ishgard, where Elezen and Hyurs live. Why couldn't they have used that as an excuse to have an Elezen or Hyur as the main focus?

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Absolutely, I agree. What I don't want is forced inclusion, in other words as long as it makes sense, great, the more the merrier.

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Heck, give me a Godbert in a tutu artwork for Little Lady's day. Please don't tell Julyan I said that.

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see my comment about a doll collecting warrior above...

Diversity should never be about slotting alternate races into something to be able to fill a specific count or tick a box. Diversity should be about being inclusive. In this case, there is opportunity to explore the traditions of each race of Eorzea through the festivals commonly celebrated. I'd be much, much more interested in these events if they (SE) did that, rather than going down the route of filling a quota.

It's hard to convey in the dry words of a post in a forum, but, it should not matter what race or gender you are, everyone has their own story to tell and that is what matters. Celebrate those different stories by including them all.


p.s. ninja edits....ah, I do that too. I'll re-read something and see a missing word or a poor phrase and go back and change it, by which time someone has already replied, or worse still I'll reply to one or two other posters and add them to a post, but of course someone already replied to the original so it's all ninja edits...

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

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Well from I understand from your posts you are not against variety in artwork and I guess we all agree on this.

Now, I would appreciate if you didn't feel like we are pulling out our pitchforks and revolting against kitten people. Seriously we're not. I still want them in the artwork, but we also want SE to tone it down a bit and give the less played races some time on the spotlight (in this case Roes because they are rarely represented at all leaving us Roe players sad and bitter).

After all it's just artwork. You already got kitty Scion as the poster girl for the game that ended up being used in other SE games.

After - what.. 3 years? - of kitty people in the spotlight I think the people who don't appreciate kitty people are getting a bit fed up and it's starting to show. That's why I think this discussion is important.

Kosmos we know why they use miqo'te/au ra already, we don't need for it to be repeated on every page.
Only thing we are asking for is for FFXIV to represent everyone and not just the majority, there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong if you only want miqo'te but you should stop telling us there is something wrong with us asking for other races to be represented. We need to mutually respect instead of trying to say no to the other side. We heard you already. You've appeared on every single page in this thread already.

You always say "I want other races if it's appropriate to the event"

This is false, what's appropriate is subjective. Any race can celebrate any event, that's a fact not a subjective opinion.

Am I the only one who feels that this jump potion debate is literally shutting down this discussion?
That timing >.>

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Originally Posted by Schan

Am I the only one who feels that this jump potion debate is literally shutting down this discussion?
That timing >.>

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Eh. It'll die down when everyone gets tired of screaming in an echo chamber.

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

Eh. It'll die down when everyone gets tired of screaming in an echo chamber.

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If the american elections taught me something was that people never get tired of shouting into an echo chamber u_u

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

You always say "I want other races if it's appropriate to the event"

This is false, what's appropriate is subjective. Any race can celebrate any event, that's a fact not a subjective opinion.

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It's not false. What is 'appropriate' to an event may be partially subjective based on anyone's interpretation of the event, but since we do not make the events, that is the judgement of the developers.

As for you telling me whether or not I can post to a given topic, or how often, I wasn't aware you were moderating this forum.

I have at no time expresses any opinion that would come remotely close to wanting Miqo'te only. I was also bothered enough about the topic to spend time looking up each in-game event from ARR on the lodestone and counted the faces I could identify in the images used there. Did I hold back, did I fudge the results, or avoid the relative invisibility of Female Roe and frequent use of female Miqo'te? Nope. I had thought I would add something of substance to the debate by posting that, apparently you didn't read it.

Mutual respect? Sure, that would be great, you're just not offering it to me. Tell me where I said it was wrong to ask for others to be represented? Tell me where I tried to say 'no' to this 'other side' you are apparently representing?

You know what's funny, two posters in this topic already admitted they feel prejudiced against female Miqo'te. I feel no prejudice towards any one in Eorzea, but I sure feel it emanating from you.

Diversity and mutual respect are fine words, let's see if you can walk the walk not just talk the talk.

As I said before;

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Diversity should never be about slotting alternate races (edit: or gender) into something to be able to fill a specific count or tick a box. Diversity should be about being inclusive. In this case, there is opportunity to explore the traditions of each race of Eorzea through the festivals commonly celebrated. I'd be much, much more interested in these events if they (SE) did that, rather than going down the route of filling a quota.

It's hard to convey in the dry words of a post in a forum, but, it should not matter what race or gender you are, everyone has their own story to tell and that is what matters. Celebrate those different stories by including them all.

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It's not partially subjective, it's entirely subjective what's appropriate and what's not.
We're trying to influence yoshida and his team to change that subjective "appropriateness"

Your other points are just agreeing with the rest of us, roegadyns should be included in the event art.

So you're basically trying to twist words into "what's appropriate" and agreeing with us in everything else.
Your only argument is appropriate, besides appropriate you have no other points.

Is that worth posting in every single page?

I already proved to you why "appropriate" is not an excuse, it's subjective and needs to changed. We are here to change it. What are you here for?

Wow! The bias is so clear when all the artwork is seen together. All I can figure is, in Japan, cuteness is very important. Hence, Lalafells and Miqo'te are on all the art.

Now, as a card carrying liberal lalafell, I feel this is wrong. I feel all the races should be included in the art. Not necessarily all of them on the same piece!

Give our lalafell and miqo'te models a break once in awhile, Square Enix!

The only art I can appreciate is the 2017 calendar, full of roegadyn :o

http://i.imgur.com/lhxlwkG.jpg

Even female miqo'te become secondary :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Eul

The only art I can appreciate is the 2017 calendar, full of roegadyn :o

http://i.imgur.com/lhxlwkG.jpg

Even female miqo'te become secondary :rolleyes:

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Is this official SE art? I've never seen this :0

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Is this official SE art? I've never seen this :0

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This is 2017 calendar from fanfest

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Originally Posted by Eul

This is 2017 calendar from fanfest

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That's nice! Why can't they do more of that xD

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Originally Posted by Eul

The only art I can appreciate is the 2017 calendar, full of roegadyn :o

http://i.imgur.com/lhxlwkG.jpg

Even female miqo'te become secondary :rolleyes:

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That looks like all Lominsan characters, home of the Roes. Got lucky that Storm Kitty didn't just photobomb it in the front. I believe she's the one that stands in the back right corner of the Maelstrom HQ that gives you dungeons to do for promotions and plays Triple Triad.

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Originally Posted by Eul

The only art I can appreciate is the 2017 calendar, full of roegadyn :o

http://i.imgur.com/lhxlwkG.jpg

Even female miqo'te become secondary :rolleyes:

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Sweet mother of god. Merlwyb can scissor me timbers any day of the week.

Sex sells. Especially when it comes in an innocently cute package. It would be surprising to expect them to stray away from female exploitation. There's more examples to be found in manga and anime than you can fap to in your lifetime. Regardless the artist, the art direction's hardly going to change past occasionally throwing the less sexualized and inherently cute races (or genders) a bone ¯\_(ツ)_/¯