DPS is flat out stupid. Bring back DD

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Originally Posted by TheMax1087

Everyone can deal damage, everyone can damage per second, but only a dps can deal more damage per second :D

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Everyone can damage per second, everyone can deal damage, but only a DD can deal more damage per second :D

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Everyone can damage per second, everyone can deal damage, but only a DD can deal more damage per second :D

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I dream of a world where this is true in Duty Finder. But alas, Healer's and Tanks are commonly top DPS over DPS!

Hello, I'm posting in a 9 page thread about semantics.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Lets call us Damagers, Attackers, or Strikers. No need to use the same term as other MMOs.

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I actually really like Attacker. If you consider the chocobo, his stances are Defender, Healer and Attacker, not DPS. It makes clear sense.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I see update info isn't coming quickly enough for pedantic threads like this to crop up.

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I honestly don't care about the patch info. This was a thought on my mind at the time and I made the thread. Bored at work, not bored of waiting for patch info. And yes, it's pedantic. I don't like calling things terms that don't make sense.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Everyone can damage per second, everyone can deal damage, but only a DD can deal more damage per second :D

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Everyone can deal damage, everyone can damage per second, but only a DPS can DD like a DPS'ing DDER. From the peaks of Coerthas to Thanalan, DP - DP - DPServille DD~!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Coming from ffxi, I still say DD and people say to me "why do you call it DD instead of DPS?"

I simply say "well think about it for a second, I'm a damage dealer, or, I'm a damage per second..."

Then they scoff at me and go quiet.

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See? You get it. Yeah, I came from FFXI as well.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

DD was direct damage, to differentiate from DoT based classes.

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Even if they split up DPS into DD and DoT to differentiate, Damage over Time sounds just as bad as Damage Per Second.

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Originally Posted by Rocond

I dream of a world where this is true in Duty Finder. But alas, Healer's and Tanks are commonly top DPS over DPS!

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Again. Damage per second is something everyone does, Damage Dealers are specialists at it.

Calling a DD a DPS is like calling a Monk a healer because mantra and second wind, or calling dragoon a tank because of keen flurry.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Then Jesus, call it DD. What's stopping you?
Now I know you're being serious. Who cares?
We all know what it means anyways. Someone who deals damage.
If people don't know go "DD = DPS" or vice versa.
You're not going to force people to say a term that you prefer.
Just like when people say 'Toons' [And that bugs the askdjkasdjk out of me]
I'm not going to tell people to say characters. Not that big of a deal guys.

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"Who cares?" I do. People who agree with me care. Hell, even the people who don't agree with me care to some degree by taking the time to tell me they don't care. :/ Yeah, it's not really a big deal. My life's not going to end as a result of continuing to be called DPS, although I'd rather not see DPS at all anymore. I'm a DD, but every time I que, I'm going to see my slot as DPS. I've just always been a fan of terminology making sense. I'm glad I created this thread regardless, because I did get a bit of enjoyment out of reading the debate of how the term tank is actually a misnomer.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Again. Damage per second is something everyone does, Damage Dealers are specialists at it.

Calling a DD a DPS is like calling a Monk a healer because mantra and second wind, or calling dragoon a tank because of keen flurry.

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I was just making fun of Duty Finder and how the DD's there aren't really specialists at it. I actually don't care about any of this other than to laugh at people, but any chance to call Duty Finder bad is a passion of mine.

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Originally Posted by TheMax1087

Dps makes more sense than DD in a game like this where everyone can deal damage.

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Take off your soul crystal if you aren't a healer, put Cure on as a cross skill class and viola, you're a healer. Get more aggro than someone else, viola, you're the tank. So no, DPS does not make more sense just because everyone can do damage.

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Originally Posted by Rocond

I was just making fun of Duty Finder and how the DD's there aren't really specialists at it. I actually don't care about any of this other than to laugh at people, but any chance to call Duty Finder bad is a passion of mine.

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Well, it is good at finding doodie.

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Originally Posted by JustPlainLucas

Take off your soul crystal if you aren't a healer, put Cure on as a cross skill class and viola, you're a healer. Get more aggro than someone else, viola, you're the tank. So no, DPS does not make more sense just because everyone can do damage.

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I see what you are trying to do, but it's not even remotely a close equivalence. No non healer can do anywhere near as much healing as a healer, no non tank has the hp or def or cooldowns to survive anywhere near what a tank could, but with dps both tanks and healers can deal 65% of the damage a dps can. That essentially means that without time based damage checks you can deal enough damage to clear anything without a dps, meaning the role of the dps isn't just to deal more damage, but also to do so at a faster rate than the other roles, (coincidentally making them have little use in any content that has no dps checks besides just getting it done faster). Dps being the measure of that rate it makes much more sense for them to be called that

Errrr.... I may be coming in on the shortbus here... but I always thought of DPS as"deeps" which is more fun to say than "deedee"

I've used DD, myself.

and yeah, then identity of the DPS classes is in a bit of a crisis, or at least, among the trinity, they are resented more.

To be honest, I dislike that MMOs caved and started using player-invented terms as official terms for class roles. I would MUCH prefer if it was Attacker, Defender, Healer. Tank? Tanks didn't exist in medieval times. It's dumb and sounds silly.

ATK/DEF/HLR makes much more sense than DPS TANK HEALER, but alas its too late. I suspect YoshiP implemented the current role names because he's an MMO player and wanted simplicity and uniformity between player-based naming conventions and terms used by developers to avoid confusion, so developers simply use player terms now.

Out of context MMO doesnt really make sense either 'Massively Multiplayer Online' what? If you want to use a technically correct acronym for everything should it not be MMOG, or OMMG/OMG 'Online (Massive) Multiplayer Game" or the full acronym of MMORPG. Accepted use in linguistics evolves over time as does the applicable definition of terms in current times.

I prefer Damage Dealer so that's what I use myself, but since I'm never sure who will or won't recognize its acronym, I generally don't abbreviate it. When spelled out like that, I think it's pretty clear.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

when they actually were good armored enough to be invulnerable to their pairs or anti-tank measures, if they ever were, was at the expense of everything else, mobility, firepower, crew comfort/survivality. WWII proved that slow moving heavier tanks made to endure the enemy fire were not good enough and they actually never really granted the survivality of the crews, the whole "heavy tank" and "super heavy tanks" for that matter were ditched years after, with the victor tanks where the T-34 and the Sherman/Firefly

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Yes, they were ditched later, which is why it's no longer a match to modern tanks. But it's that era's heavy and super heavy tanks that the gaming term was based on, the ones with defense at the cost of everything else. (And even when their defense failed against anti-tank measures, the very fact that there had to be "anti-tank" measures is because tanks were already tougher than anything else. Their gaming namesakes aren't 100% invulnerable to everything either, just tougher than anyone who's not a tank.) And it's that favoring of defense over other traits that gave the gaming role the name. (Depending on the game, you generally give up something in exchange for heavy armor, whether that's attacking power, speed, carrying capacity, or whatever.)

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

And switch tank to crowd control already.

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While it kind of makes sense in a trinity game, that still seems odd, since in the only game where I've heard crowd control used regularly, it wasn't about tanks. That was a four role game, where crowd control referred to a support class's debuffing of enemies (as opposed to buffing allies, their other main purpose).


But yeah, Defender, Attacker, and Healer are better names for the roles, and only one of the three actually uses that.

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Originally Posted by Aillith

"deeps"

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Where do you get the "ee" part from though? If you just read it as it is instead of letter by letter, wouldn't it be "dbbs"?

To me this is relative...

Is there a more proper naming convention sure, but if I were to ask "Can I go to the bathroom/restroom/washroom?" are you really going to be that person that goes "I dunno, can you"? You know the point, so what exactly is the problem here. Call it what you will and let others call it what they want.

Tanks aren't crowd control. Crowd control would be removing ability for enemy to act via things like: sleep, stun, mesmerize.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

And switch tank to crowd control already.

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Somehow, as much as Tank is (debatably) non-indicative. I think Crowd Control would be worse. Since Tanks are amond the the Jobs with the least crowd control

• WAR: A stun, and a knockback and a bind
• PLD: A stun, a blind and a silence
• DRK: A stun
• DRG: A stun and a slow
• BRD: A stun, a silence, a bind, a heavy and a knockback (and a cross-classable slow)
• MCH: A stun, a silence, a bind, a heavy and a knockback (and a cross-classable slow)
• WHM: A stun, a bind, a knockback and a sleep
• BLM: A bind, a heavy, a slow and a sleep
• MNK: A stun and a silence
• SCH/SMN: A slow and a blind (I think SMN also gets a stun)
• NIN: A heavy, a stun and a silence.
• AST: A Stun and a heavy

With all that in mind, it seems more appropriate for the ranged Melee DPS (and maybe WHM/BLM) then tanks

You have my heartfelt support on this matter.

Crowd control not only refers to enemies status in battle, but also their positioning, placement.

Positioning is not crowd control.

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Originally Posted by Deus_ex_Machina

What about: "Hey, I am a deeps"

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this:
http://i.imgur.com/KGb4egK.gif

Does a good job expressing my reaction when I heard that. (well the girl on the right)

As for the DPS thing, i think it comes from wow, even if the role is called a measurement unit. But DPS can only really do damage, where healers can do some damage along with tanks, but it is not the focus.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You all must be really bored waiting for 3.4 to be arguing if you call something DPS or DD.

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Maybe that is the main reason for this?

I've always hated that melees were called DPS. I've made fun of it constantly. No one ever calls their cars MPH or MPG, no one calls the healers HPS, so when the hell did DPS made sense?

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

To be honest, I dislike that MMOs caved and started using player-invented terms as official terms for class roles. I would MUCH prefer if it was Attacker, Defender, Healer. Tank? Tanks didn't exist in medieval times. It's dumb and sounds silly.

ATK/DEF/HLR makes much more sense than DPS TANK HEALER, but alas its too late. I suspect YoshiP implemented the current role names because he's an MMO player and wanted simplicity and uniformity between player-based naming conventions and terms used by developers to avoid confusion, so developers simply use player terms now.

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I agree with this completely. It similarly rubs me the wrong way when chat logs use wording like "P crits M for X damage" instead of "P scores a critical hit on M for X damage." "Crit" and "tank" are player slang. The actual game content should be more formal/professional.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Crowd control not only refers to enemies status in battle, but also their positioning, placement.

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Wait when was this a thing? Was it ever a thing for tanks to be called, pre-WoW era? I'm legitimately curious. I didn't play enough AoC or EQ to bother learning terminology back then, if it really was a thing.

Well the argument that healers and tanks arn't called HPS and MPS is kinda stupid... Healers don't focus on putting out as much heals per second as possible doing so would result in a crazy amount of overheal, and tanks don't focus on mitigating all the time. Both roles are entirely reactionary.

Calling them DD or DPS is perfectly fine seeing as it is actually what they do, focus 100% of their time into putting out as much damage per second as possible. In fact in this game DPS is more suited (imo) because every role is a DD.

All this talk about DPS or DD and I'm here with a different thing on my mind: "...tank?"

Off to the web dictionary!
Tank (n.):

1. a large receptacle, container, or structure for holding a liquid or gas.
2. a natural or artificial pool, pond, or lake.
3. Military: an armored, self-propelled combat vehicle, armed with cannon and machine guns and moving on a caterpillar tread.
4. Slang: a prison cell or enclosure for more than one occupant, as for prisoners awaiting a hearing
5. tank top.

.....sure?

I'll just keep "Damager, Healer, Defender" to myself in the Corner of Ignorance.

In my small mind DD has always meant direct damage and how you can split DPS into DD and DoT classes.

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Originally Posted by rikuzero

All this talk about DPS or DD and I'm here with a different thing on my mind: "...tank?"

Off to the web dictionary!
Tank (n.):

1. a large receptacle, container, or structure for holding a liquid or gas.
2. a natural or artificial pool, pond, or lake.
3. Military: an armored, self-propelled combat vehicle, armed with cannon and machine guns and moving on a caterpillar tread.
4. Slang: a prison cell or enclosure for more than one occupant, as for prisoners awaiting a hearing
5. tank top.

.....sure?

I'll just keep "Damager, Healer, Defender" to myself in the Corner of Ignorance.

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Please let DnD 4e die and we can forget it ever existed.

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Originally Posted by rikuzero

All this talk about DPS or DD and I'm here with a different thing on my mind: "...tank?"

Off to the web dictionary!
Tank (n.):

1. a large receptacle, container, or structure for holding a liquid or gas.
2. a natural or artificial pool, pond, or lake.
3. Military: an armored, self-propelled combat vehicle, armed with cannon and machine guns and moving on a caterpillar tread.
4. Slang: a prison cell or enclosure for more than one occupant, as for prisoners awaiting a hearing
5. tank top.

.....sure?

I'll just keep "Damager, Healer, Defender" to myself in the Corner of Ignorance.

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I tried looking it up, I thought there was one meaning where tank simply meant anything that takes hits well, like being a "an armored, self-propelled combat vehicle, armed with cannon and machine guns and moving on a caterpillar tread." you also forgot the use of when something does not do well, "ice crystals tanked today"

Also...:

https://youtu.be/YXBcLXiCemQ?t=38

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Please let DnD 4e die and we can forget it ever existed.

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Why did you bring up D&D? "Damager, Healer, and Defender" were not roles in 4e. Well, Defender was, I guess, but I very much doubt rikuzero had D&D in mind when he made his post...