I am disappointed with Deep Dungeon

Nerded through it with 3 friends yesterday. It is okay? I have no desire to get into it again right now, but maybe a single player run could make for a nice challange in the future. I would have liked if the rooms were a little more varied and different classes could do different things. For example a Rogue/Ninja should be able to detect or disarm traps. You know, get a little more D&D going on.

The problem with this game lately is the extremely short lived content. The Deep Dungeon was a great idea really. I loved it when they announced it but then i read the interview of Yoshi saying this thing can be finished in 2 hours! What's the point of such short lived content I don't know. In few days this will be dead and forgotten. It doesn't make any sense. I expected something more hardcore. Diadem died in few days too. The only content that really holds up in time in this game is the Dungeons since we need them for daily roulette and we always need something from there.
In 3.X the team started exploring new kind of content to diverse from dungeons but till now they just failed. They are failing because they are creating short lived content which is too easy or too silly with mediocre to bad rewards which you can obtain too easily. The game is taking a too casually approach which I don't like. And no I do not ask for extremely hard content or grind to death for months but this type of content which dies in few hours (few days with more conservative approach) is a no go for me. If you really want us to hook up in this game you need to make content that lasts more and it is more interesting with more varied rewards which you cannot obtain in few hours and then never look back.

The problem is not extremely short lived content.

The problem is badly design content. People isn`t leaving content to die, content arrives dead, we basically try to CPR it for 2 week to a month and then we go "nope... this isn`t working". Diadem, Hunts, Goldsaucer, now Dead Palace... All of it could be still alive and kicking. At the begining i was also thinking "they are too short", but i have found that in reality "they are too bad/grindy/unrewarding/troublesome".

Diadem was troublesome and unrewarding most of the time, RNG based rewards, came to us dead.
Hunts was grindy, badly designed from the board, in one patch was moved from "the side activity" to "catch up activity" and never really became relevant again.
Gold Saucer... Chocobo races are a grind. LoV is a mechanical/control clusterf**k. Triple Triad is ok, but tournements are rigged in most servers and it basically become another "fill this collecting log" activity.
And now palace of the dead is just RNG progression of doing the same over and over endlessly, probably floors from 51 upwards will be releasing rewards to "keep up" with later patches... Again "catching content".

Instead of having value on their own, and being supported for longer, all these just have value because there are goals outside them that are important.

Exactly what i expected... Fighting trashmobs isnt fun, about to fail just like Diadem. Aquopolis same issue, trashmobs.... "fun"...not.

All of them got potential tho but SE needs to give us something exciting in it.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Content for new or returning players does not have to be almost mindless, though. This is supposed to be new for everyone, including end game players. They didn't have to make it difficult, there's just nothing remotely exciting about it.

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It is the first 50 floors out of a planned 200, it will probably get harder with more mechanics and depth as more floors get added. What is at fault is 100% on you and your expectations which were wrong. SE explained in great detail what this content would be like and yet you still went in expecting it to be something else. The next set of floors they release will be the real indicator of what direction they are going with this overall.

I m just a bit disappointed, that the difficulty doesnt scale with the amount of players.

As a 4-man group, its pretty easy to reach the 50th floor. But trying this solo, it will become more and more like palace of dark souls.

I hoped for some sort of "Wizardry" gamestyle, but we just got the usual Hack&Slash what we already have in each dungeon!
I dont talk from the perspective, i mean the gameplay with enemies, items and spells...

Just liked to have something "different" than we already have...
But i like the oldschool grafics for jobs and "rooms" :)

These first floors were designed to be easy, as has already been stated. We can only wait for more floors to see whether PotD will evolve or not.

Also, sad to say, but you know what would happen if SE makes it too complicated/hard? People will start complaining even more about people being bad at the game then they already do (which is pretty much constantly).

I would be up for a challenging experience, personally. Not savage level difficulty since that's not my thing, but definitely a bit harder or a bit more involving. They have a good base with these first 50 floors.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

You posted a comment about how it never matched your expectations and how that contributed to your disappointment. If you take offense to someone pointing you are responsible and at fault for your incorrect expectations despite SE being very clear about what to expect then you should not have brought that subject up.

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I think I met my match in terms of bluntness.... and I agree with you to tall Snugglebutt

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Originally Posted by Evumeimei

I would be up for a challenging experience, personally. Not savage level difficulty since that's not my thing, but definitely a bit harder or a bit more involving. They have a good base with these first 50 floors.

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I suspect the difficulty is going to ramp up pretty quickly with additional floors when they arrive. This content is also something everyone can access independent of Heavensward. I haven't tried leveling my alt there quite yet other than trying it out solo with her. Just too much to do these days but I'll go back and give it a whirl and see how that goes. I may try a different role like white mage (she's a black mage) and see how quickly I can level her up when playing.

One way to make it interesting is instead of making random mob floors, make floors based on mob type undead etc. Then give classes a skill that strengthens them to kill certain mobs i.e Dark gets bonus damage for hitting undead/plantoids/cursed etc . Add mechanics like this floor is strong to blunt damage/slashing or this floor is strong to magical damage. This way it still keeps all classes relevant.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I suspect the difficulty is going to ramp up pretty quickly. This content is also something everyone can access independent of Heavensward. I haven't tried leveling my alt there quite yet other than trying it out solo with her. Just too much to do these days but I'll go back and give it a whirl and see how that goes. I may try a different role like white mage (she's a black mage) and see how quickly I can level her up when playing.

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Yeah. Looking forward to the next floors. I will try to solo it just for fun (or duo it with a friend of mine). :) I plan to get my WHM to 60 through PotD.

I can see how people could be disappointed in the content. It has its thrills, though thinking about it and the scope of the game they can only make it so difficult. I think they took small steps but can expand from there...

I was expecting puzzles as well but in the end I feel that after running it so many times people will either memorize the answers or look them up. Since there could only be so many you can implement, and with the rate people spam the content, it would becoming less of a fun challenge and more of a hassle for those who don't take their time and want to get in and out (which seems to be a majority of the player base). Not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just saying anything you put in is essentially limited by something. There's always going to be a bottleneck to the process.

The monsters themselves aren't horrible so far but I do notice if you treat it like a dungeon, and try to pull all the rooms. Unless you're prepared you're going to have a bad time. We did one where the mob gave us silence for 20 seconds or so but then more spawned. We got hit and some died to dual manticores being fought with other mobs. Going in seeing HP / MP increase, or abilities unavailable was nice to see.

For me, it showed how much the defensive play style of this game is lacking. I was taking poison off of people but after a bit I figured, why bother? The no auto regen being disabled made me toss in a cure every now and then if we didn't have a tank. We got no abilities, but someone used an item and it was gone. Being blind didn't hinder us at all. Debuffs, and the need for esuna hasn't been so dire to use yet.

The bosses have potential but they are dying fast. We did one last night and he ran into the center to cast fear on the party, you knew what to do..well..some. Some got hit with it, but the guy was at 1% so..didn't matter.

It could be a wonderful way to introduce end-game mechanics from these bosses to make it hard. You can make the bosses random, but even then after so long you will know exactly what to expect. It all eventually goes into memorization, or someone telling you. I'd like to see Ex primals or their moves come into play. People still die from landslides, dive bombs are hated, or a Levi / Ramuh based one.

I like it so far..I can see where they could make it more difficult but also I see how things like Slow / Blind / Poison are very weak in the scope of the game.

[QUOTE=WinterLuna;3788164]That's rich coming from someone who just wrote a condescending paragraph to a player for making a comment to you on a public forum.[/QUOT

The more you comment in that tone, WinterLuna, the more it invalidates your comments and opinions and reinforces the post of Snugglebutt who is totally correct in his answer to you and all the way... If you have a comment to make to him about his other thread...I suggest you go and post there.

Lets keep this uhmm post of yours on track...as, at least to me, is always interesting to see what were the expectations of people on this topic especially when SE described at lenght what to expect in there, prior or the day it was release, so why you are disappointed about what you found in there when you went in there with prior knowledge to what to expect is beyond me.

Maybe you can explain ????

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

why you are disappointed about what you found in there when you went in there with prior knowledge to what to expect is beyond me.

Maybe you can explain ????

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Wait.. what? People are allowed to dislike something just because they knew what it entailed. By your logic, everyone should like everything in the game and never complain because we already read about it in the patch notes. I have no idea why people are trying to use this as an argument against me being disappointed, it's absolutely ridiculous.

read again....I asked you why you had expectations when you knew what to expect prior to go in there ?
that was my question

Whether you like it or not is not what is the purpose of my question. You can still like it or not without linking it to *your expections*

On a side note, his tone was not rude, Blunt ...not rude

Semantics children. Semantics. Stay on topic or lock the topic. Foolishness.

Try it without a healer. It gets pretty interesting with a team of 3 or 4 dps, you actually have to abuse phoenix downs and that (AMAZING) 20 second potion cooldown.

Overall I really like it, though it does take quite a time commitment to complete. Though if you wipe after being on a set of floors for almost an hour it's pretty discouraging.

There was one point we pulled a few things and one of the slimes just randomly exploded with no indicator and killed all of us. I haven't laughed that hard in this game in a really long time, I was so confused! XD

You know what would have been a neat idea for Deep Dungeon, if SE got permission from the creators? Making it like the games Dragons Lair and Dragons Lair 2. Just imagine THAT for a moment.

Here's a link where a youtuber talks about the games, for those that might not be familiar with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5ug4ePqALs

And yes, that is actually THE Don Bluth in the video. Also if I can't post a link like this, please let me know so I can delete it and just put up the name of the video instead.

Went in with some friends and smashed out floors 1-30, and had a heap of fun, so this content is awesome. One thing that would make it better would be that you get a guaranteed +1 to both weapon and armor after every boss.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

I don't know what I was expecting, but I feel like this was hyped up a lot and I'm kind of disappointed.

I completed it tonight and my initial thoughts were 'wait, it's over?'.. We didn't even need a tank. The bosses felt like mobs to me and we're easily killed. We even managed to pull a lot of mobs and kill them without the use of a tank'

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It meant to be done solo that why you can't get ranked grouping in it.

It feel like most of you never really read about what its supposed to be then complained about what you've tought it would be. You went there in a group when its meant to be played solo( group option was implented just to let you try it with friends), steamrolled (as a group again) floor from lvl 1 to 50 and cryied it was too easy even if SE stated it would be that easy for that precise phase while lvl 200 is something only a few players will be able to achieve.

Its like if youv'e claimed raiding is too easy after you've played a guildhest.

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Originally Posted by Venur

It meant to be done solo that why you can't get ranked grouping in it.

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I would hardly say it's 'meant' to be done solo, but it is nice they gave that option for those who want a serious challenge.

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Originally Posted by Venur

It feel like most of you never really read about what its supposed to be then complained about what you've tought it would be. You went there in a group when its meant to be played solo

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Doubt it. It's tuned for more than one player at least. Even when they showed it off in previews they had 4 players. If it was for solo there would be no point to the resurrection shrines because when you die as a solo it ends immediately.

Solo is just something they let you do on the side if you feel like it and want the challenge. Basically for bragging rights.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I would hardly say it's 'meant' to be done solo[...]

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Same. Looking at the later floors, I'm not even sure it's doable solo. Time limit is pretty harsh and you probably need to have your gear already maxed.

Ran this last night and had fun, ran it duo with my wife. :)

Looking forward to jumping back in.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

What are your thoughts on Deep Dungeon?

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My only thoughts from what I've done in it so far is its.....its...."okay"? That's pretty much it =/ it's just...."okay". I haven't found anything yet to make me hate it per say, but I can't say either I've found something about it I absolutely love. I'm going to see how it plays with friends in a couple days and see if my thoughts change on it. For now though all I can really say on it is "its just okay".

it only been the first 50 floors we still have 150 floors to go and they already stated that floors 1 to ~100 will be the story arc of the palace then after that the next 100 floor will be a challenge.

my opinion on the palace im really enjoying it a fun bit of content to do between savage content it both fun to do in matched team as you dont know what party set up you will get which is fun for rng partys set ups and doing the place solo in my opinion is the best im doing it as whm and fun to work my way along the 50 floors im looking forward to next 150 floor both party and solo

The hardest part about the deep dungeon was trying to keep myself awake doing it. It does feel like just going corridor to corridor of mobs, pick your poms, and proceed. The concepts they added into it add no layer of depth. I was expecting more objectives to take on and I was highly disappointed. Perhaps my fault for expecting something more from SE.

Difficulty isn't even the issue here. It is just boring. It should of had random generated puzzles, unique objectives, and so on. With the amount of EXP it gives, it honestly is no different than doing a dungeon on the DF. At least with a DF dungeon, you don't need to mess with the save system.

It is baffling this goes through SE's testers and no one complains that it feels dull, boring, and uninspired. But hey! I think the job sprites look cool!

Why is SE's idea for content is just throwing wave of mobs at us? They play way too safe and don't think outside the box. Which is sad, because 2.0, the first patch had a lot of unique things going on and now SE just makes shallow content.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

The hardest part about the deep dungeon was trying to keep myself awake doing it. It does feel like just going corridor to corridor of mobs, pick your poms, and proceed. The concepts they added into it add no layer of depth. I was expecting more objectives to take on and I was highly disappointed. Perhaps my fault for expecting something more from SE.

Difficulty isn't even the issue here. It is just boring. It should of had random generated puzzles, unique objectives, and so on. With the amount of EXP it gives, it honestly is no different than doing a dungeon on the DF. At least with a DF dungeon, you don't need to mess with the save system.

It is baffling this goes through SE's testers and no one complains that it feels dull, boring, and uninspired. But hey! I think the job sprites look cool!

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This is my sentiments as well, and wouldn't change if the 51-200 floors only pump up the values on the monsters.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Also this is great for new people coming into the game the last thing they want to do is scare them off.

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Egh, could just put a disclaimer upon accepting the quest:"You are about to engage in content that expects a high level of gameplay experience. Do you wish to proceed?"

Personally, I'm expecting the later floors to simply have more and more frequent environmental hazards (debuffs), more traps and higher HP enemies/bigger groups, more and more mandating a proper trinity setup. Maybe they'll pick up on the door idea and have mobs randomly drop keys - and if you are unlucky, you'll just spawncamp one of the tiles until the damn key drops >_>

Not looking forward to it, personally. I'm not having high expectations.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

The hardest part about the deep dungeon was trying to keep myself awake doing it. It does feel like just going corridor to corridor of mobs, pick your poms, and proceed. The concepts they added into it add no layer of depth. I was expecting more objectives to take on and I was highly disappointed. Perhaps my fault for expecting something more from SE.

Difficulty isn't even the issue here. It is just boring. It should of had random generated puzzles, unique objectives, and so on. With the amount of EXP it gives, it honestly is no different than doing a dungeon on the DF. At least with a DF dungeon, you don't need to mess with the save system.

It is baffling this goes through SE's testers and no one complains that it feels dull, boring, and uninspired. But hey! I think the job sprites look cool!

Why is SE's idea for content is just throwing wave of mobs at us? They play way too safe and don't think outside the box. Which is sad, because 2.0, the first patch had a lot of unique things going on and now SE just makes shallow content.

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I really gotta disagree and chalk it up to 'different strokes for different folks'.

I find this to be really fun, especially if you go in as all DPS jobs. Really have to use teamwork and focus stuff down and use items smartly.

I could see it being boring if you went in with a generic trinity setup though, but even doing it with a healer with me I still had fun. It's a lot like diablo or mystery dungeon to me-those games don't have 'puzzles' or anything like that, maybe you just don't like dungeon crawling?

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I really gotta disagree and chalk it up to 'different strokes for different folks'.

I find this to be really fun, especially if you go in as all DPS jobs. Really have to use teamwork and focus stuff down and use items smartly.

I could see it being boring if you went in with a generic trinity setup though, but even doing it with a healer with me I still had fun. It's a lot like diablo or mystery dungeon to me-those games don't have 'puzzles' or anything like that, maybe you just don't like dungeon crawling?

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Its no different from any other dungeon other than you can be any role you want. It adds no variety or mechanics that would make it less like a normal dungeon and more of a trial of sorts. They can make content interesting with puzzles and objectives and still have it fun and not difficult.

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Its no different from any other dungeon other than you can be any role you want. It adds no variety or mechanics that would make it less like a normal dungeon and more of a trial of sorts.

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It's significantly different than normal dungeons.

Normal dungeons are 100 percent scripted. These are completely unscripted. The maps are random, chests give different advantages and traps can cause deaths or wipes of people aren't careful where they step. Not to mention these dungeons have their own unique progression system to add to the uniqueness.

If anything, Deep Dungeons is a great balance to the normal dungeon system, but by no means are these content types carbon copies of each other.

EDIT: I totally wouldn't mind though if SE decided to make normal dungeons more like Deep Dungeons going forward. Imagine having storyline dungeons that were designed to fit a certain theme, with random "hallway" maps connecting larger fixed rooms where more interesting fights/mechanics could be in play. Doubt SE will go that far, but a paladin can hope.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

Its no different from any other dungeon other than you can be any role you want. It adds no variety or mechanics that would make it less like a normal dungeon and more of a trial of sorts. They can make content interesting with puzzles and objectives and still have it fun and not difficult.

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More enemy mechanics like the slime explosions or the rhinos tank busting and stuff would be welcome, but actual puzzles and the stuff you're asking for would go against what they are trying to do.

If you've never played a mystery dungeon game, maybe you should, because I feel like that is what this is trying to simulate, and it does a good job of that.

you realize create procedural content and add new variable take time and balance, the advantage of this system it's they can upgrade it, add new type of monster, more floor, new objective and who know what....
you can't expect this sort of mods to have everything from get go. soo far it's far better than diadem, people saying the inverse are simply weird, i'm sorry but that my feeling.

Diadem was you get tons of people to the same place for not move for more of 40 minute to chain kill the same monster over and over and over and over.

indeed in deep dungeon we are killing monster, opening chest and that most of it. but at least the monster vary with new mechanic added and if you don't go with the optimum group, believe me it's a challenge, try to go without healer and tank.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

More enemy mechanics like the slime explosions or the rhinos tank busting and stuff would be welcome, but actual puzzles and the stuff you're asking for would go against what they are trying to do.

If you've never played a mystery dungeon game, maybe you should, because I feel like that is what this is trying to simulate, and it does a good job of that.

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exactly that

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

More enemy mechanics like the slime explosions or the rhinos tank busting and stuff would be welcome, but actual puzzles and the stuff you're asking for would go against what they are trying to do.

If you've never played a mystery dungeon game, maybe you should, because I feel like that is what this is trying to simulate, and it does a good job of that.

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Problem is we have plenty of content where you go in and simply kill mobs. There isn't much of a thought process on what you do in there. It really needs to be spiced up with a variety of objectives to complete to be interesting. This is "playing it safe content" at it's finest.

I think I remember reading somewhere that the next 50 floors will be story related? So maybe we'll have some more interesting challenges there? I think this round was just an alternative to grinding Tam Tara and Toto Rak for your other classes.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Problem is we have plenty of content where you go in and simply kill mobs. There isn't much of a thought process on what you do in there. It really needs to be spiced up with a variety of objectives to complete to be interesting. This is "playing it safe content" at it's finest.

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I kind of wonder if we're playing the same content, because I had to think on what to focus and what items to use pretty much the whole time.

Of course like I said earlier, I've done it with all dps, and then all dps and 1 healer, so.

Also solo or 2 manning it requires a bit of thought as well. Try different party comps for a more enjoyable experience.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

1. Pom items that affect the environment. Avoid traps by hugging the walls. There is no healer/smn to ress your ass so you got to be careful.
2. Kill things to level up, kill things to unlock the portal to the next level. Avoid pulling deadly mob pairs (slimes, bees). Sneak past mobs when there are too many to kill.
3. Get chests. They are vital to your progress when soloing (dps buff, defensive buff, clear debuff off of yourself, put a debuff on last boss, reduce enemy spawns).
4. Efficient use of buffs. Figuring out the best path between mobs and finding the correct rooms.
5. Choices between time-efficiency and getting levels and chests.
6. There are circular floors where 4 rooms are connected to each other like a doughnut.

So, did you try it? What was your job and how far did you get? I went in as AST and got somewhere past floor 11 before dying. Going to try SCH tomorrow.

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got to floor 20 before running out of time. There isn't much of a reason to do but to just do it. Getting silver chest will be a pain because there's no other reason to go in there if your not getting the aether gear maxed out. Your not getting bonus exp or anything. In fact your better off running with 4 people (obviously) and your not getting any different of an experience if your playing it safe. You'll always be avoiding unnecessary enemies, avoiding traps, buffing, and debuffing. Only reason I'm doing it so much is it makes for a more interesting way to lvl your classes and that 235 weapon we can get solidifying our aether stuff.