question how far is to far

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

Inb4 the male counterpart of the bunny suit, ends up showing no skin at all, and is more of a tux. Therefore making it actually an entirely different piece of gear for genders.

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it's gonna be the Halloween even gear all over again. females unique males the same coatee we already have with a new bow

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yes, well, one can always choose to play a female character if they have such an allergy to the male form.

It's fine to have different opinions - but it's become very common for a vocal minority of people to demand that companies bend over backwards to accommodate their tastes when...they're not the majority at all. Most people want to play women who look and act like women and men who look and act like men. It doesn't have to be super masculine or feminine but with how these 'crossdressing or riot' threads go we just see people demanding that everything becomes feminine or androgynous.

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Well... it's not like I'm asking for them to bend over backwards or else I'll stop playing... I'm allowed to voice my opinion right?
Besides the POINT isn't an allergy to the male form, it's a preference of a certain type of male form. Does androgyny really bother you that much, hmm? I realized this was a bit mean, but I got sort of really offended you'd tell me to just play as a female character... obviously i would've done that before if I wanted to. There's nothing wrong with it in the "real" world and there's nothing wrong with wanting it in a video game, either.

Like I said before, I'd be less annoyed if they bothered to make some nice male-only gear (and KEEP it male-only). But seeing they pull the "it's too time consuming to make more gear", it's MUCH easier to just edit current models to fit male rigs (thus making the gear unisex) than design and model new items. So if that's the card they'll keep playing I'll just keep asking for all the gear to become unisex.

The last few patches have been better about it.

I'd be perfectly happy with them making a different top for the male version of the two bunny outfits if they think it fits better. Heck, they could skip the top entirely and give us a male-only neck item which looks like a bow tie and collar - perfectly suitable for the theme and the costumes some people want to make with their bunny girl friends (not to mention adaptable into alternate glamours with different tops). Adjusting designs to fit their view of aesthetics doesn't bother me so long as the male version isn't a lame afterthought while the girls get something special. You won't see me complaining about the 7-Eleven maid outfits from a design perspective because the campaign treated the guys fairly (fans outside Japan, less so).

I know the OP has put half of us on ignore now but I am hoping that the recent relaxing of gender locks on some newer equipment is a sign S-E is getting the right idea. In my mind the 'masculine aesthetic' versus 'feminine aesthetic' argument is completely separate to the 'female and unisex' problem, but there is certainly merit to suggesting more variety too - especially given how many designs are shared between the five caster jobs.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

You don't wanna see a dude dressed as a bunny? It's cool, I don't wanna see girls dressed as Setzer either.

You don't wanna see a dude dressed as Minfilia? It's cool, I don't wanna see girls dressed as Cid either.

The only time I have an issue with gender lock is when it's uneven. Female + unisex shouldn't be a thing.

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This 100%

Its not the fact that guys are not allowed to crossdress that is bothering me more, its the fact that during ARR the developers started releasing more female only outfits per patch then males, this unevenness is what is bothering the majority of us who are demanding for male outfits.

When Golden Saucer was released they released the Setzer and Bunny outfit, one was uni-sex while the other was female only, what should have happened is: The setzer outfit is uni-sex and a female and male version of the bunny outfit or Setzer outfit is male and bunny outfit is female.

Now to the social norm that people have been raised with that makes them uncomfortable this is their own issue, they should not force players to follow their own rules. Give players the choice of freedom, if a male wants to dress as a female, let him, if you dont want to dress as a female, the choice is there to not dress as one.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

This 100%

Its not the fact that guys are not allowed to crossdress that is bothering me more, its the fact that during ARR the developers started releasing more female only outfits per patch then males, this unevennessi is what is bothering the majority of us who are demanding for male outfits.

When Golden Saucer was released they released the Setzer and Bunny outfit, one was uni-sex while the other was female only, what should have happened is: The setzer outfit is uni-sex and a female and male version of the bunny outfit or Setzer outfit is male and bunny outfit is female.

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Yeah, this...
I mean, I get why Setzer's outfit was made unisex. Final Fantasy legend and all.
But in return they really should've had a male counterpart to the Bunny outfit.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Yeah, this...
I mean, I get why Setzer's outfit was made unisex. Final Fantasy legend and all.
But in return they really should've had a male counterpart to the Bunny outfit.

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What bothered me more is that after all the complaining and requests, they decided to release another female only bunny outfit. Remember the Halloween outfits? Females get unique chest item and males get the same outfit as the Hildebrand chestgear + pumpkin acc.

Yep; same with the Thavnairian set. They had a good idea for a male equivalent to the bustier set, but they modified it for female models and made it unisex. A dancer-style male-only set would have kept things balanced, yet instead they invested their time in giving the ladies something extra. If they only have a certain amount of time to work on things and this has to keep happening (which I doubt), they could at least alternate instead of always choosing the same group to favour.

It bugs me that the locked costumes are also some of the most popular glamours in the entire game. You'd struggle to find a single female character on my server without the bunny ears and Thav bustier in their collection, they're so beloved. You will find someone glamouring those items in almost every DF party. The design team have clearly done well, so can the rest of us get the same love from them now?

Yep, It always felt like a bias towards designing female outfits, which I can understand. If someone likes making female outfits more then males, then they will be motivated to make more female outfits, but when you get your funds from a playerbase that is made of both genders, you have to start being fair and make outfits for both of them.

They should either make outfit for both or reduce the subscription of gamers with male avatars, because what is the point of paying for outfits that I can not wear? Luckly they have been fair the past few patches which is a good sign, but the damage is already done and the only way my faith in them can be restored is if they start releasing male version of the female exclusive outfits. We have been asking them for over a year and still no reply, they said that males will get something, but still nothing.

Yoshida said he encourages and loves feedback, but so far nothing has been done with our request.

Breastplates. Like female breastplates. If a male character can wear it then I guess that would be going too far. I wouldn't mind it though. I'm a freedom fighter type :p

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Bre...61c_580825.jpg

Also, that would be pretty funny to see XD

This...has been one of those things I've been agonizing over myself.

While I am a liberal thinker and in RL, you're allowed to do whatever you want, personally, when I see a man (That you can really just point out and say "Yeah, that's a guy") in a dress or something feminine, or a woman in something masculine (and yet still has very feminine features), it bothers me personally. Do I voice it? No, not really; everyone has the right to do whatever the heck they want to do with their lives. But it doesn't remove the fact that I don't feel comfortable nor is it a sight for my eyes. But that's my own personal opinion.

This is further heightened in a fantasy genre RPG. While I understand the desire from some of the LGBT and other individuals that want the ability to have some of the dresses and other items that are female only, or some of the females wanting the male counterparts, to me, it completely destroys my immersion. Now, you'll say "Well, in a game where they have a full blown chocobo suit or swimwear that you can glamour onto your gear, your immersion isn't going to stand much of a chance". While true, most of the stuff is based on the game so I can tolerate it (only a bit more. To me, the silly stuff really breaks the environment and I like to have my fantasy genre to be as immersive as possible). So to me, it makes no sense whatsoever when I see a tank in a bikini or in a chocobo/moogle suit, while somewhat funny when it does happen.

But, I completely understand the desire or the want. I would rather they give each sex a glamour that is similar to what they release the other side so that both sides feel like they are getting something. But the cross between some males wearing female gear and some females wearing male gear, I'm not keen on.

NOW! I will say this: Some of the female armor sexualizes characters, no doubt about that. They should have one that is full armor, and one that is half armor/sexualized. Allow both choices. Or, make sure that when you do this, you don't do it all the time. I can completely understand female players being completely disgruntled every time they see an armor set on a female character and it covers everything except, you know, the ABSOLUTE CRITICAL PARTS of a body. The Dragoon one is utterly stupid on a functionality level because, simply put, you've got such a huge opening. While I understand Dragoons are nimble, how is it that the female dragoon has that huge opening and the male ones don't and yet the males can still do all the Dragoon skills?

I think the sexualization of the female body is still being done to this day. And I can applaud the steps that some gamers have taken to include our female gendered colleges and take their side in some cases. To me, I can also understand that some men LIKE to see their women in a sexualized manner. While the debate between it being right or wrong can go on for years, the fact is that it's simply a common male view.

TL;DR: I don't agree with crossdressing, because on a personal view, I don't like it, because it simply breaks my immersion in the game. I'm also not afraid to speak my opinion because this is, in the end, a forum where I can state my opinion. But on that note, I also don't like the fact the game has silly stuff that can be glamoured over proper sets because it's "funny" or "cute". The visual team needs to start thinking about adding both sexes when they add items, and they need to take in account that they need to meet the same standards: If you add something sexy for females, add something sexy that females would like on males. Equality is something that should always be striven for. Finally, we have made strides on sexualizing female anatomy but we still have a long way to go before we can safely say that both sexes are being treated fairly.

From what I can see, S-E is looking towards removing some items and making it unisex. While I don't personally like that choice, it is their game and I will not say a word about it if I see it, but personally, it won't sit well with me.

"If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all" - any mother figure.

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Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

TL;DR: I don't agree with crossdressing
[...]
From what I can see, S-E is looking towards removing some items and making it unisex. While I don't personally like that choice, it is their game and I will not say a word about it if I see it, but personally, it won't sit well with me.

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The problem is that most of the time, female characters are perfectly allowed to crossdress (since many of the "male-only" items are, in fact, unisex). Male characters aren't.

IRL, women are allowed to crossdress (trousers, suits/tuxes, masculine flannel shirts) without anyone opposing it, other than maybe people assuming that for places requiring 'formal wear', women must wear high heels and dresses. Men aren't without people questioning their sexuality, gender identity or beating them up for assumptions regarding those. (Yes, there are rare cases when men can "get away" with it, if they're fortunate to live in a city where people generally are more tolerant. It'll still cause quite a few raised eyebrows and comments. I tend to wear a long skirt at home, because it's comfortable and it's more socially accepted than wrapping a duvet cover around my waist because it's clothes. Went to the shop once during the summer without switching to trousers, crossed paths with a small group of people in their early twenties or late teens and heard semi-loud comments to the point of "people should really make up their minds (about gender)" -- probably because I'm also long-haired... with a beard. Glanced at the group. Three of them were short-haired women with jeans. Yeahhh... people should really make up their minds, no? *amused*)

Anyway, I get side-tracked. The point is that it should be fair for all players of this game. When gearsets are female/unisex, that's not fair. If they're female/male, that's fair. If they're unisex/unisex, that's fair. I for one am glad that SE are looking at levelling out the already-existing unevenness in addition to evening out the release pattern for current patches. Whether they do that by making the gearset pairs into unisex/unisex or female/unisex/male (by introducing new male-only gearsets to match the themes of previously released ones), it's pretty much the same to me.

And while I did make the comparison with IRL also allowing more freedom when it comes to clothes, the fact of the matter is that in Eorzea gender equality isn't really a struggle, is it? I mean, we know they can change quest text based on character gender, because not only pronouns get different, but we're addressed slightly differently in some texts depending on our gender. If text boxes started questioning our life choices of becoming the warrior of light if we happened to be playing a female character, or if female NPCs stopped being guards or other "dangerous" jobs because it wasn't "responsible" of them... then it might be fair to assume social rules when it comes to clothes may be similar.

Everyone has their own style and there should be room for everyone to express that style, and that is a good thing.
The answer is: you can ever go too far. To open up as many costumes to as many people who want to wear them allows for diversity, and diversity is a good thing in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

The problem is that most of the time, female characters are perfectly allowed to crossdress (since many of the "male-only" items are, in fact, unisex). Male characters aren't.

IRL, women are allowed to crossdress (trousers, suits/tuxes, masculine flannel shirts) without anyone opposing it, other than maybe people assuming that for places requiring 'formal wear', women must wear high heels and dresses. Men aren't without people questioning their sexuality, gender identity or beating them up for assumptions regarding those. (Yes, there are rare cases when men can "get away" with it, if they're fortunate to live in a city where people generally are more tolerant. It'll still cause quite a few raised eyebrows and comments. I tend to wear a long skirt at home, because it's comfortable and it's more socially accepted than wrapping a duvet cover around my waist because it's clothes. Went to the shop once during the summer without switching to trousers, crossed paths with a small group of people in their early twenties or late teens and heard semi-loud comments to the point of "people should really make up their minds (about gender)" -- probably because I'm also long-haired... with a beard. Glanced at the group. Three of them were short-haired women with jeans. Yeahhh... people should really make up their minds, no? *amused*)

Anyway, I get side-tracked. The point is that it should be fair for all players of this game. When gearsets are female/unisex, that's not fair. If they're female/male, that's fair. If they're unisex/unisex, that's fair. I for one am glad that SE are looking at levelling out the already-existing unevenness in addition to evening out the release pattern for current patches. Whether they do that by making the gearset pairs into unisex/unisex or female/unisex/male (by introducing new male-only gearsets to match the themes of previously released ones), it's pretty much the same to me.

And while I did make the comparison with IRL also allowing more freedom when it comes to clothes, the fact of the matter is that in Eorzea gender equality isn't really a struggle, is it? I mean, we know they can change quest text based on character gender, because not only pronouns get different, but we're addressed slightly differently in some texts depending on our gender. If text boxes started questioning our life choices of becoming the warrior of light if we happened to be playing a female character, or if female NPCs stopped being guards or other "dangerous" jobs because it wasn't "responsible" of them... then it might be fair to assume social rules when it comes to clothes may be similar.

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Yeah, that's pretty much why I said I wouldn't really say a word about it ingame or IRL, but inside, I'd be perturbed by it. There's an equality factor that I am for, but in my mind, it doesn't jive. Not sure how else to explain it.

Am I the only one who thinks bunny ears and silly gimmick clothing should never have been in the game in the first place?

Running a dungeon with a Roe wearing leopard skin trunks and bunny ears is something that would really wreck the immersion into the game for me. The current state of it before making things available both sides is too much IMO...

the problem with the rabbit suit is it's not a rabbit suit. It's a bustier, panties with fishnet stockings and bunny ears. I have no qualms with the bunny ears being made gender neutral.

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Originally Posted by pikster

Am I the only one who thinks bunny ears and silly gimmick clothing should never have been in the game in the first place?

Running a dungeon with a Roe wearing leopard skin trunks and bunny ears is something that would really wreck the immersion into the game for me. The current state of it before making things available both sides is too much IMO...

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But its here already and only one side of the playerbase has the option to wear those type of outfits. SE will not remove them, since they spend time and money it and players are fond of them. So the only logical solution is to even the playing field and allow the other half to enjoy those type of outfits.

Here are some examples on how the bunny outfit could work on males.

http://i.imgur.com/Iv38332.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/iLYeVXO.jpg


But SE has said that making new outfits takes to much time and effort (yet they made female ones....), so we have no choice, but to ask for the female outfits.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

But its here already and only one side of the playerbase has the option to wear those type of outfits. SE will not remove them, since they spend time and money it and players are fond of them. So the only logical solution is to even the playing field and allow the other half to enjoy those type of outfits.

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Im all for opening it up for both genders, hell, if we are going to throw realism and lore to the wind we might as well do it all the way! But tbf, thats not my morals speaking or an overwhelming desire for equality... Its more of a "meh" this really shouldn't be an issue.

Still, if all players could not go to a dungeon dressed as a bunny i'd really appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

the problem with the rabbit suit is it's not a rabbit suit. It's a bustier, panties with fishnet stockings and bunny ears. I have no qualms with the bunny ears being made gender neutral.

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Why is that a "problem"?

We already have the coeurl briefs and talisman for guys. Would the male version of the bunny costume really be much different from that?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

Why is that a "problem"?

We already have the coeurl briefs and talisman for guys. Would the male version of the bunny costume really be much different from that?

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Can't say I'm fond of the Jok swimsuits. Why does your ken doll need to be a flaming diva? This isn't real life, characters aren't born with gender confusion they're male or female and the eorzean style based on NPC's is pretty clear cut.

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

Can't say I'm fond of the Jok swimsuits. Why does your ken doll need to be a flaming diva? This isn't real life, characters aren't born with gender confusion they're male or female and the eorzean style based on NPC's is pretty clear cut.

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What does wearing female outfits, have to do with gender confusion?

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

Can't say I'm fond of the Jok swimsuits. Why does your ken doll need to be a flaming diva? This isn't real life, characters aren't born with gender confusion they're male or female and the eorzean style based on NPC's is pretty clear cut.

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So Eorzeans don't swim? Or if they do they do so fully clothed? How does wearing a fairly common style bathing suit constitute being a "flaming diva"? Why is it ok for a female to wear a bathing suit but not a male? What does wearing a bathing suit have to do with "gender confusion". Are the npc's wearing subligar's "confused" too?

Swimsuits and whatever males got are completely different. I work at a pool.

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

Swimsuits and whatever males got are completely different. I work at a pool.

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But this is Eorzea and not the real life. I get that the way people are raised, they might be uncomfortable and its your right to be like that and express this opinion. But denying others from wearing what they want is odd, very odd. I dislike the bikini wearing miqotes or the ones that try to be as slutty as they can. But I do not want to take this option away from them, because it makes them happy.

Happiness, something that alot of gamers do not understand. So what if I dont like slutty female miqotes, this does not mean I should deny them their choice. I ignore them and move on, I wish many did this aswell, instead of comming to the request threads and complaining against the choice to wear what people want to wear.

Let players wear what they want, if you are bothered with it, ignore and log off, because something is very wrong, when you are uncomfortable with the way a digital character looks like.

All of this was not directed towards you, Alyssin.

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

Swimsuits and whatever males got are completely different. I work at a pool.

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Maybe you should look again. O.o Sure, many guys these days use bathing shorts and similar things, but speedos are still a thing ^^; Especially amongst competition swimmers, IIRC (unless they've recently gone to favouring longer legs on their swim pants).

I find it amusing because this is the first MMO I have played where people complain they can't wear some female gear on males. Guess it's just the type of player base this game has. I spoke to some of my fc members about this and we came to agreement where if you want female looking gear just play female. Honestly in my personal opinion I see this as a waste of development time. Comparing this to raiding is just silly. Yes raiding is done by a minority i can say for sure a much larger amount people care about raiding than wearing female clothes on a male character. They can see the number of people doing raids and they can say we can make this because for the amount of people doing it this won't be a waste of development time.

In this case it just feels like a very small and when i say small i mean tiny part of the player base is just being very loud about it and it just comes across as quite a few. This just my opinion anyway and im not a fan of what they are doing. I won't say not to do it its their choice. I can already seeing it ending where they add it people wear it to be a special snowflake for a bit and then change back to their old glamour always happens then they realize they didn't really need it.

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

Swimsuits and whatever males got are completely different. I work at a pool.

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Then you clearly need to broaden your exposure to clothing styles. Speedo's are common as hell swimwear for men. Heck just google the Australian Men's Olympic Swim Team and you'll see. The problem here is you're using your own preconceived notions of what is and isn't appropriate for genders to wear to determine who should and shouldn't be allowed to wear what. Eorzeans do not necessarily share our world view of what constitutes acceptable fashion.

Remus gets it

Speedos are still worn yes. Compression shorts are also quite popular.

Not a speedo
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7c693419.png

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

Remus gets it

Speedos are still worn yes. Compression shorts are also quite popular.

Not a speedo
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7c693419.png

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...00/228/dat.jpg

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

^that's what I'm talking about.

Not a speedo
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7c693419.png

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Actually yea it is... with a few extra straps, for sure, but it really is just a speedo. And what's wrong with it as it is? You're a male playing a female character... but the sight of a guy strutting around in a fancy speedo makes you uncomfortable and incites you to call him a "flaming diva". The fact that this bothers you just makes you seem really insecure to me.

No, panties and fishnet stockings incite me to calling him a "flaming diva."

Hahaha, Eul

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Originally Posted by Remus

I find it amusing because this is the first MMO I have played where people complain they can't wear some female gear on males. Guess it's just the type of player base this game has. I spoke to some of my fc members about this and we came to agreement where if you want female looking gear just play female. Honestly in my personal opinion I see this as a waste of development time. Comparing this to raiding is just silly. Yes raiding is done by a minority i can say for sure a much larger amount people care about raiding than wearing female clothes on a male character. They can see the number of people doing raids and they can say we can make this because for the amount of people doing it this won't be a waste of development time.

In this case it just feels like a very small and when i say small i mean tiny part of the player base is just being very loud about it and it just comes across as quite a few. This just my opinion anyway and im not a fan of what they are doing. I won't say not to do it its their choice. I can already seeing it ending where they add it people wear it to be a special snowflake for a bit and then change back to their old glamour always happens then they realize they didn't really need it.

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This is probably the first mmorpg where you see players complaining, because alot of mmorpg give the players the option to wear female outfits. World of Warcraft a 2004 mmorpg, has no male/female slot, all the outfits is for everyone, so males can wear female outfits. The same can be said for majority of F2P mmorpgs. Elder Scrolls Online has no genderlock aswell, I have often seen male wear dresses, because they can, heck even Blade and Soul which was released in the west this year gives males the option to wear sexy female outfits.

So I would not be suprised if people were not complaining on other mmorpgs, because why complain, if you already have the option to crossdress?

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

No, panties and fishnet stockings incite me to calling him a "flaming diva."

Hahaha, Eul

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So your problem is ultimately males appearing feminine?

No, males appearing in clothes for women is. If you want to wear clothes for women, play a woman. Bustiers are designed for women with their anatomy taken into account. Fishnet stockings are for women. Panties are for women.

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

No, males appearing in clothes for women is. If you want to wear clothes for women, play a woman. Bustiers are designed for women with their anatomy taken into account. Fishnet stockings are for women. Panties are for women.

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No, the phrase should be, "If you want to play a woman, play a woman." Me, and others, play a male character because we prefer the looks (and/or voices) of them. That doesn't (and shouldn't!) prevent us from appreciating some of the currently female-only outfits. And it certainly doesn't/shouldn't prevent us from feeling slighted due to all the female/unisex glamour outfit pairs. Not when the entire idea behind gender selection from Yoshi's side has been "the gender of your character should make no difference when playing the game" (an early statement I read during ARR beta regarding male and female characters having the same starting stats).

Yes, brassieres are intended to support the female bust. (Bustier is merely a term coined for non-boned overbust corsets, afaik, and corsets exist for both genders.) And... apart from maybe, potentially, the fluffiest male roegadyn possible, no male characters have man-boobs. So where female characters get bras, male characters get naked chest. (Or chestguards or heartguards, in case of armour.)

Fishnet stockings are... for people with shaved legs. IMO. (On an amusing note, I heard that most legs advertising stockings/pantyhose, where you can't see the whole person... are male legs ^^; )

Panties... Yes, I'll agree that the word is associated with female underwear. But there is male underwear that resembles "panties" closely enough to make the distinction a matter of semantics. Same as how women have boxer shorts, despite those originally being male-only underwear (irl). I don't think there are any items in game that are called "panties" (if there are, please enlighten me), so it doesn't matter anyway.

I don't think (and I doubt there are that many who think so) that if SE decides to make, say, the bunny chest/legs/feet unisex that they're going to make them identical in appearance when male characters wear them. Just look at the soldiery caster legs. They're fishnets for female characters, weird tights for male characters. In fact, many of us have argued that a perfectly reasonable male equivalent would be to take inspiration from the Chippendale dancing group:
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...0/75010487.jpg

Similar sexually teasing image for women people attracted to the male body as the playboy bunny has for people attracted to the female body. Make the "bustier" a simple collar+bowtie, and while there already are several trousers that would suit to pair with it, I personally would be okay with another pair of almost-identical trousers to complete the set. Gloves and bunny ears could be kept as-is.
(I disagree with the one suggesting that the collar+bowtie should be a neck item -- we already have those in the Moogle ribbons and later recolors, and the main issue with those is that accessories can't be dyed. If it's kept as a chestpiece, you'd be able to dye it into the colour you want.)

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

snip

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I'm hoping they give just bowtie for bunny sets for males. /pray

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

Snip

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I was under the impression that the argument was "we want to wear female clothes on our male characters or riot!" not "we want to have the female outfits designed to be worn for men too." I'd be totally cool with the chippendale outfit and some bunny ears in place of fishnet stockings, panties, and a bustier.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130109061217

Too far?

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

No, males appearing in clothes for women is. If you want to wear clothes for women, play a woman. Bustiers are designed for women with their anatomy taken into account. Fishnet stockings are for women. Panties are for women.

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You're assuming the male version of the bunny outfit would look exactly like the female version. That's a silly assumption to make. Consider something like Kirimu coat. It has a bare chest shown for males and a modesty protecting bra for females who wear it. I'd imagine the male bunny outfit would be similarly altered. Would you have less issue if the male bunny outfit had a chest similar to the couerl talisman (a bare chest with say a chippendales style collar), some chippendale style cuffs for the wrists and some full length slacks? But even if it wasn't altered. How is that much different from a male character dyeing a subligar pink and wearing that with some other silly hat like one of the moogle hats?

And not for nothing... who decides what clothing is exclusive to what gender? Once upon a time high healed shoes were the exclusive province of male fashion, only later being adopted by women. Deciding who can wear what based on some preconceived notion of what is or isn't male or female clothing is silly. Let people wear what they want. You aren't forced to wear it and the number of people you'll see wearing it should be so infinitesimally small you'll almost never see any after the initial craze of people who wear it for the novelty at release wears off. Of course anyone on your server who has read this topic may well wear it around you just to spite you he he.

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

I was under the impression that the argument was "we want to wear female clothes on our male characters or riot!" not "we want to have the female outfits designed to be worn for men too." I'd be totally cool with the chippendale outfit and some bunny ears in place of fishnet stockings, panties, and a bustier.

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The main argument (AFAIK) has always been, "It's unfair that they keep releasing female/unisex sets. Give our male characters the same rights D:" -- for some, they express that as "make everything unisex", others express it as "give us more male-only sets", and yet others express it as "I don't care which, just give us the same amount of gearsets, with equal thought behind them". I'm sure there are people (who are arguing for gearset equality, mind you) who are saying things in other ways, but those are the three main sentiments I've seen.
For me, it's the third of those. Sure, there are female-only gearsets that I'd love to wear as-is, but I'm also realistic enough to understand that they wouldn't be converted as-is to the male body without at least some modifications -- similar to how female characters get a bra beneath the Thavnairian vest when male characters don't. And considering some other gear pieces that have different appearances depending on the gender of the character wearing it (Coatees, Eerie Tights, Evenstar Tights, NIN AF gear, DRG AF gear...) the difference can be more or less drastic.

For me, it's more important that the "image" of the gearset remains than the actual appearance. As it is, most of the female-only gearsets emphasize a specific stereotypical aspect/expression. With Spring Dress, it was 'lady' -- the male version there would be 'gentleman', not 'sailor', IMO. (No, not the 'lady' that's the equivalent of 'lord'.) With the Bunny sets, it's sexuality -- male sexuality is expressed differently than female sexuality. With the Thavnairian set, it's again sexuality, but this time with a fairytale Middle Eastern flair. Say 'harem girl'. The male equivalent would be 'harem boy' IMO, especially when the 'Aladdin' equivalent of 'Jasmine' was made unisex.
Not sure if I'm expressing things clearly enough ^^;

Edit: And while I'm mentioning the Thavnairian set, I'd love a vest without the hip shawl D: My childbearing hips/thighs are wide enough as it is!

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

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I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this. This post is quite apparently here to just incite others, but sure, I'll take the bait, just because I want to say one thing off the bat, but I'll save it for the end.

First of all, I realize that this is likely a horrifying realization for you, but there are plenty of straight women and gay men who would love to see some of the beefcakes of Eorzea walking around with bunny ears and revealing outfit on. Because our characters are all rather attractive at least in body structure, what you do to your character's face isn't my business.

Secondly, I have no idea what you're trying to say with your second point, I'm guessing its something about the various expressions of gender in our own species? Once again, gender is a dubious term and one that we have mostly made up. Gender expression is more about society's rules as a whole than a personal level. So if a straight or gay male character wants to walk around flaunting their sexual attributes, we should let them. Eorzea is a realm of equality, now, while some outfits shouldn't be worn by men, for example a wedding gown (they're just not made for men, sorry boys), some of the other clothing should be, like the Thavnairian Bustier (perhaps a change in name is due?) or the Bunny sets.

Tertiary, SquareEnix is a company that favors aesthetics, not only that, you needn't look far to see examples of men in the series wearing feminine clothing or having feminine features that look fantastic. Kuja, Cecil Harvey, and Ramza Beoulve are all great examples of this. So no, I don't think the clothing will look bad on men, in some cases it might look better.

Anyway... the last thing I have to say,
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/47539431.jpg