People leaving the instant a dungeon pops

I found FATEs to be a better teacher on how to best do DPS, because for a number of them, if you were on your own and couldn't kill the FATE fast enough, you would just die instead because (in most cases) nobody is there to back you up.

This is almost never true in dungeons because even most bosses don't have an enrage mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Remove the Aurum Vale from roulette, or change it to lv.50 dungeon. Problem solved.

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The last thing they should do is removed one of the best balanced dungeons in the game.
If you're reckless, you suffer consequences. Something that only otherwise exists in savage. Every other dungeon more or less hands you the win.
Whereas if you play the AV smartly, you can get in both a quick painless run not any slower than any other dungeon, but with some of the biggest exp rewards relative to its level.

We need more dungeons where cunning and experience pays off.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

Well according to some people looking for more active FCs and better LS to solve this problem is narrowminded. Despite them being options for all of us players to have better more easier times with pretty much the whole game.

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what is narrowminded is saying that is easy to find people to fill an entire group out of an FC and/or LS and makes it an obvious thing and THE solution of any problems THAT is narrowminded because is not that obviously obvious to find instantly and always the number required to do this or that instance.

So for people that give this advice to others, even if yeah in theory should be the case is reality is not..or not for everybody.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

The last thing they should do is removed one of the best balanced dungeons in the game.
If you're reckless, you suffer consequences. Something that only otherwise exists in savage. Every other dungeon more or less hands you the win.
Whereas if you play the AV smartly, you can get in both a quick painless run not any slower than any other dungeon, but with some of the biggest exp rewards relative to its level.

We need more dungeons where cunning and experience pays off.

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I completely agree with this. However, I know that if new dungeons are implemented that are similar in design to AV people will bitch up a firestorm about it. The only solace we could hope for in that scenario is if they just continued to release dungeons like that until we just squeeze the face-roll dungeons out the back end and are left with only the actual AV-like dungeons for people to play at relevant item levels. Basically, once we got to that point it would become the new norm to have actual interesting dungeons and the moaning would hopefully have died down by that point (probably 5.0 or 6.0).

I've seen this pitched before, but once you've zoned into an instance, the roulette will lock that player into that specific instance until it is completed if they leave and queue up for that roulette again. That way, people who leave simply because it's an instance they dislike have the options to skip that roulette for the day, or suck it up and complete that instance and the people who have a bad group/have an emergency/etc can simply leave and come back and finish it later for their bonus.

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Originally Posted by Litegrace

I am normally a tank main so dungeon times have never bothered me. However, I have been trying to level Monk for almost a week now with almost no progress. At least 2 times a day I end up waiting 30+ minutes for a dungeon queue, only to have the tank and/or healer leave the instant we get in.

Seriously, there needs to be a 12 hour lockout for this. If something comes up where you can't join the dungeon, you should just withdraw when it pops. There's no reason to accept it then immediately leave. That just screws everyone out of their queues. There's no reason I should constantly have to queue multiple times (waiting 15-30 minutes each time) just to run a single dungeon.

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I agree. If you mis-que enough, or leave a dungeon I totally agree they need to up the penalty, maybe not as extreme as 12 hours, But id be happy knowing that person cant run a dungeon for 3 hours.

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Originally Posted by birdy_reene

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Originally Posted by Litegrace

I am normally a tank main so dungeon times have never bothered me. However, I have been trying to level Monk for almost a week now with almost no progress. At least 2 times a day I end up waiting 30+ minutes for a dungeon queue, only to have the tank and/or healer leave the instant we get in.

Seriously, there needs to be a 12 hour lockout for this. If something comes up where you can't join the dungeon, you should just withdraw when it pops. There's no reason to accept it then immediately leave. That just screws everyone out of their queues. There's no reason I should constantly have to queue multiple times (waiting 15-30 minutes each time) just to run a single dungeon.

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But id be happy knowing that person cant run a dungeon for 3 hours.

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the devs won't do this for fear of mass unsubbings as a result. 30 minutes is a fine enough penalty for this it means they cant just join a new roulette and it is an inconvenience for those that do it. the devs will never purposely shoot themselves in the feet to convenience those of you that this bothers. so you might as well place this in the beating of a dead horse.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

I've seen this pitched before, but once you've zoned into an instance, the roulette will lock that player into that specific instance until it is completed if they leave and queue up for that roulette again. That way, people who leave simply because it's an instance they dislike have the options to skip that roulette for the day, or suck it up and complete that instance and the people who have a bad group/have an emergency/etc can simply leave and come back and finish it later for their bonus.

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this would be another brilliant move that would be counter productive as the point is to help other players since if you locked players into dungeons they dont want to do you would end up with people not bothering to do those roulettes and eventually nobody would be doing them thus killing the whole reason for the roulettes in the first place. I for one would rather suffer a little inconvenience because of someone not wanting to do the dungeon they got rather than a lot of inconvenience because nobody is doing the roulettes at all.

Again, as with the other topic on this issue, people fail to grasp what the cause of the problem is and respond accordingly. Instead, they act out of spite, ignorance, and stupidity.

News flash, people do their roulettes for the rewards. There is no more efficient or easier way to get tomestones / EXP as long as you roll into certain duties.

Nobody is leaving their leveling roulette when they queue into Ifrit NM.
Nobody is leaving their mentor roueltte when they queue into the Hero of the Halfshell.
Nobody is leaving their trial roulette when they queue into Cape Westwind.

People are leaving mentor roulette and didn't get a guildhest or easy trial.
People are leaving leveling roulette because they got AV.
People are leaving 60 roulette because they got Aetherial Chemical Research Facility.

The bottom line is that for some roulettes, certain duties are much faster and much easier but have virtually the same reward. That is why a lot of people leave. I'm not saying that's the only reason, but it's easily the majority.

Locking them into the duty for 24h does not fix the problem. They just won't do it. Just because there is a 24h lock on their Aetherial Chemical Research Facility duty doesn't mean the roulette is suddenly more time or effort efficient than doing hunts or something else.

Raising the leaver penalty to 12h or however long not only fails at fixing the problem, but also does immense harm to the game. As is, leavers already concede the penalty and find something else to do. Raising the penalty to 12h just means they won't play this game. They'll eat the penalty and then log off to play DS3 or whatever game is currently out. As for the question of whether or not they even come back to FFXIV once the penalty is finished, the answer is up in the air. For SE and for the player base, that is a horrible outcome. This reality doesn't even factor in the many innocent people who will be caught in the cross fire. This is no different from draconian DRM which people almost universally despise.

The proper way to address this problem is to balance the duties in each roulette so that their time / effort = reward ratios are similar. For example, in the 60 roulette, Neverreap and Fractale are both shorter than Pharos Sirius HM and Saint Arboretum but Pharos Sirius HM and Saint Arboretum have no ilevel sync and they also give more tomestones for your trouble. Aetherial Chemical Research Facility is the clear outlier. They've even tried this approach with Steps of Faith in the trial roulette -- it gives way more EXP than the other trials. The problem is not everyone does their trial roulette for the EXP nor do many people even know about this. You could make the argument that poetics / eso bonus are also an example of SE using an adjusted reward system to encourage content -- when the 3.X relic first released, everyone was hunting poetics bonuses.

The bottom line is people respond very poorly to punishment. This fact is born out through various studies. The proper way to address this issue is through balancing the rewards so that people are more encouraged to actually stay in their roulettes.

And to anyone who argues this wouldn't work, just imagine the hypothetical scenario where AV is buffed to give massive rewards to encourage people not to drop out of it. Imagine if AV leveled you straight to 60 / gave 2000 eso and 450 lore if queued through the leveling roulette. People would be pulling out their hair trying to find a way to queue into AV. Everyone would be dropping queue to try and get into AV. You'd flip the tables instantly. Obviously this is an exaggerated scenario but the point is that balanced rewards can work.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

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All this time they spend throwing a strop cause they don't want to do a particular dungeon, they could have done it in that 30minute time frame and not had to waste an extra 30mins to go back into the Duty Finder again -__-

Like for Aurum Vale the tactics are so simple and you just need to take a minute to explain it, its really not that hard but "Oh no I have to put in effort to get my reward. Oh woe is me I'm gonna leave and make it difficult for those 3 other people because my time is so important, I don't care how much of their time I waste!"

All you're really saying is that people should be allowed to be as selfish as they want without any repercussions because they only want the reward, cause heaven forbid something takes just over 30minutes.

If people don't have the time to give 30-40minutes to the game then they shouldn't even be playing in the first place cause they are just ruining the experience for everyone else.

Hell when me and three FC friends went into the 60 roulette we got the Aetherchemical dungeon and truth be told we agreed to leave under the assumption it would take too long cause the last time we did it was as fresh 60's, but even when going in as a premade the first person to leave gets the 30minute timer (which is actually pretty stupid given its a premade group)

When the timer was up we jumped back in and got the same place again, so rather than waste another 30 minutes we did the dungeon anyway and cleared it in 20-25minutes and felt rather dumb for not just sucking it up and doing it in the first place.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Then I hope you enjoy people going afk in your dungeon.

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There's a lot more players who play the game than you think that could replace that one person who ditched their party members. People who instantly leave a duty with no warning whatsoever should be taught a lesson because 30 minutes of penalty is apparently not enough.

Just remove the ability to leave the instance within the first 15 mins..

If people have to wait 15 mins before leaving, then they might as well just spend the extra 15-20 mins to finish the dungeon.

Had a tank instantly leave aery, mentor healer is leader he decides not to seek refill. Tells us he cancelled refill and we should kick him, he then runs off and kills himself on trash.

Then repeatable asks to be kicked.

Asshole

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Originally Posted by NaesakiAshwell

All this time they spend throwing a strop cause they don't want to do a particular dungeon, they could have done it in that 30minute time frame and not had to waste an extra 30mins to go back into the Duty Finder again -__-

Like for Aurum Vale the tactics are so simple and you just need to take a minute to explain it, its really not that hard but "Oh no I have to put in effort to get my reward. Oh woe is me I'm gonna leave and make it difficult for those 3 other people because my time is so important, I don't care how much of their time I waste!"

All you're really saying is that people should be allowed to be as selfish as they want without any repercussions because they only want the reward, cause heaven forbid something takes just over 30minutes.

If people don't have the time to give 30-40minutes to the game then they shouldn't even be playing in the first place cause they are just ruining the experience for everyone else.

Hell when me and three FC friends went into the 60 roulette we got the Aetherchemical dungeon and truth be told we agreed to leave under the assumption it would take too long cause the last time we did it was as fresh 60's, but even when going in as a premade the first person to leave gets the 30minute timer (which is actually pretty stupid given its a premade group)

When the timer was up we jumped back in and got the same place again, so rather than waste another 30 minutes we did the dungeon anyway and cleared it in 20-25minutes and felt rather dumb for not just sucking it up and doing it in the first place.

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You are not realizing something very basic.

The 30 minute leaver penalty does not stop you from playing this game. It only stops you from using the DF.

If your main goal is leveling, you can do fates for 30 minutes. You can do your beast tribes for 30 minutes. You can do clan hunt logs for 30 minutes. There is plenty to fill the time.

If your main goal is tomestones, you can do hunts for 30 minutes. You can queue for PvP even with the DF penalty.

Outside of that, you can do your red scrips, you can go gather, you can craft, you can do any number of things.

They are hardly wasting their own time. They are only wasting the time of others.

So, onto the point of what I'm saying. Sure, I am saying that people should be allowed to be selfish. It's human nature. Can you stop humans from being selfish? I am saying that if you know people will be selfish no matter what, you put in the proper incentives to take advantage of that selfishness in a way that helps the game.

The most recent example of this? SE adding aether oils to the CT weekly quest. Suddenly CT queues are completely manageable whereas prior to this change they were only popping during prime hours or reddit events. People want aether oils. You put the rewards in place and people do what you want them to do out of their own motivations.

Another example? The UI relic step. Suddenly poetics bonus is no longer something you shun but something you welcome. Before you had to have friends to clear coil. Now you post a PF offering poetics bonus for T1-T13 and you get the easiest and most courteous carry of your life.

Like I already pointed out. It doesn't matter what punishment you put in place. Either people will find a way around it or they just won't do their roulettes anymore. You would be better served appealing to the nature of the problem that causes them to drop roulettes and use it to entice them to stay.

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Originally Posted by Litegrace

I haven't seen this too much, but it does happen. I always get excited when someone is new, mostly because I remember my first time running dungeons and the fact that depending on the instance you can get bonus tomes.

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Unfortunately most people don't feel that way. I'm with you tho, I don't mind.

Also, you are right, it has been happening a LOT lately. At least on Excalibur. I only hit 60 this past week, and there were several times during the 50-60 grind that I got stuck because of people leaving as soon as the message pops up about new players. Kinda pisses me off.

Everyone had to have done it a first time, and sorry if you think someone doing it for the 1st time will slow you down, but honestly, if you feel that way maybe you shouldn't be playing mmos. The dungeons in this game are not difficult, and bosses can still be downed with 1 or 2 people dead. Leaving at the start is a douche move.

The lockout could be tied to the instance timer. Your lockout ends when the rest of the group leaves the dungeon, when it has been completed, or when then dungeon timer expires. In all cases you are punished for the length of time that everyone else had to put into completing it.

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Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

The lockout could be tied to the instance timer. Your lockout ends when the rest of the group leaves the dungeon, when it has been completed, or when then dungeon timer expires. In all cases you are punished for the length of time that everyone else had to put into completing it.

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That's even worse since people could troll it even easier by not even progressing in the run.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

That's even worse since people could troll it even easier by not even progressing in the run.

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Well, if you're a tank, you screwed over others out of a sometimes 30 minute queue, or longer. If you 'get trolled' cause they can't find a replacement... Well...

Fair's fair, aye?

Edit: I just find it entertaining that everyone trying to defendthe far too LAX penalty are those with instant queues.

There is a trick a lot of people use for roulettes. You have a friend with a level 16-19 tank (preferable) or healer queue with you (as dps) so that you get a (near)instant queue. The tank or healer then leaves when the duty pops, so they are free to go do whatever they want. It is important that the tank or healer is not much higher than 19 so that you get one of the first three dungeons. All of these can be done WITHOUT a tank, very easily. They can be done without a healer if you have an acn, thm, smn or blm dps with physick to heal when needed, as well. You can still dps 90% of the time and just cast two or three physicks per pull to keep the tank alive. Sleeping mobs helps too, and you won't have to heal at all if you do that and fight them one at a time. This is a way to instantly queue and complete your leveling roulette as a dps, you just do as much of the dungeon like this as you need to until a replacenent pops up. Whether or not this is a good or bad thing is debatable. I don't personally do it, but i did come up with the concept to help my friend get his instant queues as a dps. Several people i know do it now, and even more people will now that i posted this xD

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Originally Posted by Litegrace

Seriously, there needs to be a 12 hour lockout for this. .

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LOOOOOOOOOOL this is ALMOST as good as the people that want to make cutscenes unskippable for the 2 main scenarios when a noob is present. Where do you people come from? really? c:
It's not like getting into a dungeon is the ONLY way you are able to level. Please stop with the crying and put your big boy pants on.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Well, if you're a tank, you screwed over others out of a sometimes 30 minute queue, or longer. If you 'get trolled' cause they can't find a replacement... Well...

Fair's fair, aye?

Edit: I just find it entertaining that everyone trying to defendthe far too LAX penalty are those with instant queues.

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Well I'm not a tank main, I main BRD and deal with this exact DF times, so you're completely wrong thinking it's people with instant queues. People defend this because the timer is not in place to punish people for leaving, but to prevent people from jumping in and out of the DF until they get what they want, and add the fact that people who want a harsher penalty offer ideas so ass backwards insane it's laughable.

Not everyone who quits out early is doing it intentionally, I've had to quit because my job called me in, I've had players quit out because their babies woke up, because their kids needed to be picked up from school sick, I've even had a player tell us they needed to quit out because someone side swiped their car, and yes many people quit for no reason.

It doesn't matter why someone quits out whether or not it's a good or bad reason, it sucks all around, but regardless, the people crying about harsher penalties are the same people who will flood this forum crying about the harsh penalties they've asked for.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Well, if you're a tank, you screwed over others out of a sometimes 30 minute queue, or longer. If you 'get trolled' cause they can't find a replacement... Well...

Fair's fair, aye?

Edit: I just find it entertaining that everyone trying to defendthe far too LAX penalty are those with instant queues.

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I main smn and I don't mind the long queue times nor do I mind the 30 minute penalty when I decide to leave a dungeon. I have other things to do IRL to keep me entertained. I think a 30 minute penalty is fair enough as is. Only special snowflakes seem to want that changed.

Why do I never experience this, ever, on the Chaos data server?

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People leaving the instant a dungeon pops

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No problems there, unless everyone leaves at once. I can always use the extra practice. That, and if they're the kind of people that tuck tail and run just because they gambled and lost (roulette and all) I wouldn't really want to run with them anyways. God knows what else they'd complain about.

LOL tank main crying about dps queues and experiences. And everyone cries about tank as role in need. its all about incentives. hell even throw in some choose your own class/job to throw the bonus in if youre a tank. all of a sudden queues for levelling are instant.

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Locking them into the duty for 24h does not fix the problem. They just won't do it.

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Which is just fine by me. It'll at least keep them from queueing the roulette again and potentially inconveniencing even more parties.

The lock needs to be longer than 24h though, to be honest. People won't have many qualms about giving up one roulette for the day, but they might if it means they can't run the roulette again until they grow a pair and just complete the dungeon. That, or they'll just stop queueing roulettes altogether, which is also fine.

I've seen this a few times. No way to know why 100% of course, but I figure it's a case of people getting the 1 out of the 2 expert dungeons they dread and figure the 340 minutes is worth not running something they hate.

I don't think I've seen this in any other queue types but the expert dungeon roulette. (Well...maybe when aurum vale crops up in the leveling dungeon, I'm usually temped to bail right away myself when it crops up, tho I'll usually hang around and only bail if we wipe 2 or more times on the 1st few trash packs)

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Originally Posted by Vidrian

Why do I never experience this, ever, on the Chaos data server?

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Happened to me 5 times today just trying to get my low level roulette done on Chaos data center... Honestly anyone saying this has never happened to them must not be paying attention because it happens daily, always on low level roulette.

Im just trying to level a DPS and spending 15 min in que every time some princess healer or tank doesnt want to do Dusk Vigil / Dzamel / Aurum just isnt fun anymore...

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Originally Posted by pikster

Honestly anyone saying this has never happened to them must not be paying attention because it happens daily, always on low level roulette.

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Oh really? Not paying attention if someone leaves? Oddly enough I run a full suite of roulettes each day on my main and many on my two alts as well. I RARELY have a problem with people leaving. RARELY!