The cooldown reset on A8s is unbearable

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Originally Posted by Airget

Honestly is a good point, the ability to reset all cooldowns upon wipes would just encourage the mentality of dying until they get the ideal situation they are aiming for.

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And this is a problem... why? Some parties wasting their time by wiping prematurely while trying to achieve some sort of hypothetical ideal situation is a small price to pay so that everyone isn't wasting tons of time every single time they raid.

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Originally Posted by Cnidarian

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Fair 'nuff, I use stream of thought writing a little too much, so appologies for neglecting that first part. Either way, it kidna bothers me - because if someone wants to waste their time trying to get hte "Perfect Opener", that's not abuse. They're still losing the time that they wasted on their 'imperfect' (a laughable term) opener, they're still losing their time that they have to wipe, get back in, re-buff, and re-pull.

Simply put, this isnt' as abusive as you think it is. Most serious raidgroups probably wouldn't even use this if it was in that short of a time period. The bigger thing they WOULD potentially do, is that they would likely wipe if they missed a DPS check of some sort. There are a few examples of this that can happen in the first few minutes of a fight - such as A5S, someone might decide to wipe if they didn't skip the first prey (But man... I couldn't imagine it, the group I was with just grumbled about having to do a mechanic.)

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Originally Posted by PLitz

The "abuse" that I think they're referring to isn't so much double-stacking CDs or anything exploitative like that. I think it's more along the lines of groups intentionally wiping because they screwed up their opener, or because they had an early accidental death, or heck even if someone didn't get as many critical hits as they wanted to in the first 20 seconds. The reason we want it is to not have to wait after popping cooldowns right before a wipe, they just have to find a way to set it up so that people can't just abort every time they have a bad pull.

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Why not let people wipe and reset if they have a bad pull?

How is there abuse there?

Enough is enough and it's time for a change! Please reset cool downs on wipes! Leaving things as they are is completely unacceptable. People have lives to live and other things to do than play this game. The time that they do, excuse me, the time that we do invest in the game should be enjoyable. There's no enjoyment in standing around feeling discouraged for 5-7 minutes, in some cases, while waiting for cool downs to reset. It's completely unnecessary. Just think of the raid parties that are trying to learn and clear content but are being gated by losing momentum due to having to wait for cool downs for no justifiable reason. Add up all the time that people are standing around doing nothing waiting for cool downs and it adds up to a considerable amount of time out of a person's life, the time that they have to try to enjoy the game, and there is no reason for all of this time to have to be wasted.

You guys said you would listen to the player base, take that user feedback and use it to improve the game. Well, this entire thread is valuable user feedback, and it would be awesome, and appreciated, if we could get a response from a Community Mod on this issue.

The way to keep people from abusing the system is to maybe put one trash before every boss. So when people do try to pop all CDs then go into the boss it will all be for not. I wouldn't mind doing one mild group of trash then having to wait for cool downs. That is the only way people can try and cheat is pop cool downs before entering then rushing to hit the boss with like 7 seconds left on CDs. One little thing of trash would solve it.or just let people have the CDs for 4 seconds on boss it really will do nothing just add like 30 k hp to the bosses or something also. There are ways around it.

Every single scenario listed for possible ways to abuse this are stretching the line so thin it's laughable.

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Originally Posted by Luascadan

Every single scenario listed for possible ways to abuse this are stretching the line so thin it's laughable.

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this

there is no need for trash at all , just remove the "shortcut" to boss...we will waste some time traveling back , but that time can be used to cool down the head for a few , because if we got CD reset and no downtime of at least a few seconds we can go mad in no time !

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Originally Posted by Luascadan

Every single scenario listed for possible ways to abuse this are stretching the line so thin it's laughable.

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I was just about to say exactly this. It's almost as if the people coming up with the theoretical scenarios of how it could be abused have no experience of raid at all *gasp*

1. Everyone popping their CDs, sending in a sacrificial lamb, who respawns, runs back to start, then you all run in with 7 secs left of your CD. Obviously there is no time for a pre-pull countdown, but the tank and everyone else hits at the same time and there are no aggro issues at all. OK.

2. Someone doesn't hit enough crits in their opener, so decide to restart (fk the rest of the team and whether they had a good opener or not). Because success/failure in every turn is nothing to do with mechanics or anything, but relying on crits. Dam Elysium and their lucky crit ratio.


3. Someone could do something and make something else happen, and it would be abuse.

4. You died and must be punished, waiting on CDs is the time for you to sit there and think about what you've done.

If these are the best arguments anyone can possibly come up with for NOT implementing the CD reset, well it only strengthens the case that it should be

I agree all these possible "abuse" scenarios are completely absurd. There is no reason in trying to justify NOT having cooldowns reset.

There doesn't need to be any stipulation, any trash added, shortcuts removed, etc. I mean come on. Really? Let me pop Raging Strikes, you run in and die, release, take the shortcut and run all the back, get rebuffed, and I can still get actual use out of RS? Yeah, ok. Love to see this. Please give it a shot and let me know how that turns out.

Cooldowns need to reset when the party wipes in raid instances. Period. No ifs, ands or buts. During prog in a 2 hour raid, you'll spend 30-40 minutes just standing there. This is unacceptable!

I got raid tonight. I'm gonna see how long I lose having to wait on the god **** cooldowns for A7S progression @_@

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I got raid tonight. I'm gonna see how long I lose having to wait on the god **** cooldowns for A7S progression @_@

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Set a stopwatch and please report back, lol

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

I agree all these possible "abuse" scenarios are completely absurd. There is no reason in trying to justify NOT having cooldowns reset.

There doesn't need to be any stipulation, any trash added, shortcuts removed, etc. I mean come on. Really? Let me pop Raging Strikes, you run in and die, release, take the shortcut and run all the back, get rebuffed, and I can still get actual use out of RS? Yeah, ok. Love to see this. Please give it a shot and let me know how that turns out.

Cooldowns need to reset when the party wipes in raid instances. Period. No ifs, ands or buts. During prog in a 2 hour raid, you'll spend 30-40 minutes just standing there. This is unacceptable!

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Exactly this.

Over half the fights fade to black when you wipe anyway. Those that don't have long areas you have to run down that will take more than 20 seconds to get back into.

And besides, buffs get wiped when you die. So you should just link the reset to your character's death in raid instances, don't you think? That way no one can just be waiting outside a lockout for a reset...seems obvious.

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Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu

Well, this entire thread is valuable user feedback, and it would be awesome, and appreciated, if we could get a response from a Community Mod on this issue.

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...How could you fail to see the Mod response and the 10-or-so people quoting said Mod response? Admittedly, the default number of posts per page is tiny (I have it set to max, so for me it's just last page it happened, but on the other hand, this thread is just three pages for me...), but come on!

Anyway, I'll oblige you with another quote of said Mod response:

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Hey everyone,

The dev. team is aware that there is a large demand for cooldowns to reset after a wipe. During the Niconico Chokaigi event held in Japan recently, Yoshi-P mentioned that while there are some concerns about the possibility of players abusing the cooldown reset, that they are actively looking into this.

We'll be sure to follow-up once we have more information.

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Originally Posted by spellsnare

what about doing a cooldown reset like ''your all need to stay alive like 3 minute after the beginning of the fight'' if wipe after the 3 minute spend well all cooldown going to reset in that way no abuse at all

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Good luck on your progression on stuff like A8S.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Over half the fights fade to black when you wipe anyway.

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They should make all fights like this. It would fix the "Oh shit! I've released!" issue too.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

...How could you fail to see the Mod response....

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That was a fail on my part. I read the first 3 pages of posts and decided to post myself and didn't notice that there was a Mod response prior to me posting. Thanks for posting Zhexos response by the way. I originally did not see it, like I mentioned, but noticed it yesterday when checking on this thread to read any new posts. I took the time to read posts on prior pages that I didn't originally read, and saw that response and thought to myself, "Oops. I missed that, but glad to see that a Mod did respond regarding the issue."

Here's to hoping that the dev team understand the frustration waiting on cool downs is causing, that they are sympathetic to our cause, and that they code the game to reset cool downs, in instanced content, after a full party wipe.

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

2. Someone doesn't hit enough crits in their opener, so decide to restart

If these are the best arguments anyone can possibly come up with for NOT implementing the CD reset, well it only strengthens the case that it should be

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#2 would actually be a pretty legitimate annoyance on any fight with early dps checks (A3S was pretty bad, and Fausts). As it is, with many fights while undergeared a single early death is enough to trigger a "let's wipe and start over." Sometimes you should just work with what you have instead of waiting until everyone gets the perfect opener, but a wipe 1-2 minutes in shouldn't mean you have to sit around waiting for Battle Voice or Hallowed. But, never trust DF players to act civil when it comes to things like this.

Short cooldown on the cooldown reset (hah) is plenty. If the fight was longer than 2 minutes everything resets, otherwise everything with cooldowns longer than 2 minutes is cut down to 2 minutes.

Lets be real. The real reason they wont fix this isn't because of the fear of "abuse". The real reason is $$$. The more we wait for CDs, the longer progression takes. The longer progression takes, the more we will all play the game in order to complete the current raid tier. The more we play the game, the more monthly fees they collect. Its all for the all mighty dollar. Fear of abuse is just an excuse.

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Originally Posted by Kahl_Lionheart

Lets be real. The real reason they wont fix this isn't because of the fear of "abuse". The real reason is $$$. The more we wait for CDs, the longer progression takes. The longer progression takes, the more we will all play the game in order to complete the current raid tier. The more we play the game, the more monthly fees they collect. Its all for the all mighty dollar. Fear of abuse is just an excuse.

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counter argument: raid finder
if it exists for the start of the next tier, you can start in the middle or end now so ..... progression is shorter now (no need to redo first few phases to get to where ur wiping)

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Originally Posted by alimdia

counter argument: raid finder
if it exists for the start of the next tier, you can start in the middle or end now so ..... progression is shorter now (no need to redo first few phases to get to where ur wiping)

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The selection ist just to queue up with people that ara also similar far in the fight. You don't jump directly to that phase. This was clearly said and written in fat red letters in the patchnotes.

oops yeah just used it for the first time today and realised that.