People are deliberately ruining the story for others

I feel while some people would help with those runs if asked there will be some people who will feel they should be compensated with a bonus worth them waiting through that cut scene. Some will either only run with pre-made groups while others will stop doing them. With the whole locking everyone from progressing till the cutscene is done unless it is a automatic without having to press a button to proceed people could potentially troll the group.

But this seems like a issue that will never truly be resolved.

Honestly players going through these dungeons now have it better than any other generation of player out there. They were speed ran almost immediately upon release because they were good sources of philosophy tomestones. However, in the early days due to low gear and players unused to 8 man parties, each fight needed to have the whole party there and ready which means that you just got harassed endlessly if you didn't flat out skip your cutscenes. Through the 2.0 series, it became easier for people to run them without a full party so that opened up the option for new players to watch their cutscenes or participate in the fights. Now in the 3.0 series since you can run the dungeons unsynced, you only really need to ask 1 or 2 level 60s to go with you which is a much easier requirement to fulfill.

tldr; there was never a time when these dungeons didn't ruin most of the new players' story experience. Everyone else had to suck it up and deal with it, the new players can too.

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Originally Posted by Scorcher24

The whole rushing in story dungeons is annoying and people are blind to the issue. If you bring it up, you only get flamed and insulted. There is no repercussion for those people because they are backed by most of the rest of the group, no matter how rude or inconsiderate they are.

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The problem isnt the community. The problem is the existence of soooo many lengthy cutscenes. From my experience, most ppl wont care if you watch cutscenes and just leave you behind.

While leaving you behind isnt necessarily the most ideal experience you would hope for as a new player, drastically worsening the experience for the 7 other ppl in your party just so you can have a better one isnt an ideal scenario either.

I'm not saying this is ever going to happen but I wonder if if redesigning CM/Prae to be be multi-stage dungeons like Coil or Alex would help by spreading the cutscenes out instead of having them all happen within a single dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Issue I have with people complaining about this is Party Finder gives you the option to find people who want to watch CS, to complain means you are being to lazy to take that time

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No, we complain because even if you do take that time it accomplishes nothing. Set up Party Finder to say you want a group for Praetorium with no cutscene skipping. Ask in shout and linkshells for people willing to go at a story pace to join, discuss with everyone who does join that this is for completing the story of the game and everyone should watch the cutscenes. When everyone agrees and you enter the dungeon, well, there's still 7 of them and 1 of you, so their desire to speedrun outweighs anything the run was set up for, and you're supposed to just deal with them destroying the game for you, and be thankful for it.

How to fix Main Story Roulette:

- You aren't able to skip scenes
- You can only do it once a week
- Reward => 500 poetics and 250 esoteric/experience.

Now I fixed all the problems. The reward is worth the time, and you can't skip cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

you're supposed to just deal with them destroying the game for you, and be thankful for it.

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And you think forcing players to watch the cutscenes is going to somehow solve this? As stated many, many times, the majority of people only do this dungeon for tomes in Main Scenario Roulette. Sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that 7 other people would offer to help you and agree to not skip cutscenes and then do so when they're not even getting the roulette tomes.

SE are not going to fix a problem for a dungeon this old. They have improved the way they introduce cutscenes now. Again, people are actually lucky Main Scenario roulette exists, because the time when it didn't, you were lucky to even get into the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

How to fix Main Story Roulette:

- You aren't able to skip scenes
- You can only do it once a week
- Reward => 500 poetics and 250 esoteric/experience.

Now I fixed all the problems. The reward is worth the time, and you can't skip cutscenes.

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See this would now be worth it. I don't know why anyone had a problem with upping the reward in the first place. People complain about a problem and then complain about a solution.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Why are they going to spend 45 minutes on The Praetorium when they can spend 15 minutes on another much quicker dungeon which doesn't involve cutscenes and gives the same amount of tomes?

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By which you're still saying nothing is changing, which goes against the scenario we were discussing. If one run is expected to take around 45 minutes and another around 15 minutes, then they would not get the same tome reward. The former would get maybe twice or a little over what the later gives (which, once you add in time to get in and so on, makes them about equal in tomes/minute). Plus, these dungeons where it's an issue are already a separate roulette, which should give better rewards than any non-roulette run. So no, we should be assuming that you cannot get better rewards anywhere else. So long as that's the case, people would still run it, even if it was re-designed to take longer.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

By which you're still saying nothing is changing, which goes against the scenario we were discussing. If one run is expected to take around 45 minutes and another around 15 minutes, then they would not get the same tome reward. The former would get maybe twice or a little over what the later gives (which, once you add in time to get in and so on, makes them about equal in tomes/minute). Plus, these dungeons where it's an issue are already a separate roulette, which should give better rewards than any non-roulette run. So no, we should be assuming that you cannot get better rewards anywhere else. So long as that's the case, people would still run it, even if it was re-designed to take longer.

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... but you can and always will get better rewards somewhere else. You'd get less tomes in a 15 minute dungeon? Run it twice. It still takes less time than the 45 minutes plus you have double the chance of a 100 tome bonus.

Besides, people are already capping their tomes with Midas, Expert Roulette and PvP. I don't actually know one person who still runs MSR to begin with.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

And you think forcing players to watch the cutscenes is going to somehow solve this? As stated many, many times, the majority of people only do this dungeon for tomes in Main Scenario Roulette. Sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that 7 other people would offer to help you and agree to not skip cutscenes and then do so when they're not even getting the roulette tomes.

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I would have found it hard to believe, too, but that's what happens. PF is useless, because no matter what rules you set up, by the time a group is put together, they still outnumber you, and will still run it however they please. And yes, if everyone had to watch the cutscenes, and couldn't move ahead until everyone was available, it certainly would help. Everyone would have to get the full run, which means everyone would be able to get the full run.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I would have found it hard to believe, too, but that's what happens. PF is useless, because no matter what rules you set up, by the time a group is put together, they still outnumber you, and will still run it however they please. And yes, if everyone had to watch the cutscenes, and couldn't move ahead until everyone was available, it certainly would help. Everyone would have to get the full run, which means everyone would be able to get the full run.

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But people wouldn't run the dungeon in the first place unless the reward was worth it when they have to stand around doing nothing every time someone wanted to watch the cutscenes.

I give up posting here, people seem to be purposely ignoring the fact people only run that dungeon for the reward. Good luck with the request, and good luck with getting people to actually run the dungeon if this was implemented.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I would have found it hard to believe, too, but that's what happens. PF is useless, because no matter what rules you set up, by the time a group is put together, they still outnumber you, and will still run it however they please. And yes, if everyone had to watch the cutscenes, and couldn't move ahead until everyone was available, it certainly would help. Everyone would have to get the full run, which means everyone would be able to get the full run.

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I am glad people skip the cutscenes because it sounds like you have no respect for other people and only care about yourself.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

But people wouldn't run the dungeon in the first place unless the reward was worth it when they have to stand around doing nothing every time someone wanted to watch the cutscenes.

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Well, nobody asked them to stand around doing nothing. They were supposed to be watching the cutscenes as well. That's what everyone agreed to when they joined the Party Finder that had that condition set, in both the checkbox options and reiterated in the description box as well. Plus it was discussed in party chat before starting the run itself.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

It sounds like your lazy and have no idea how to be a leader

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So other people agreeing to rules on how to do a run and then reneging on that promise makes me the one that's lazy? I suppose by the standard that I couldn't enforce the rules that had been set made me an ineffectual leader, but the reason I couldn't enforce them because the game doesn't allow any means of doing so. I couldn't even kick anyone out when it was the entire rest of the party that was speedrunning. Kicks are still based on majority vote. PF isn't a solution because PF rules aren't enforceable.

I'll be brutally honest. I love helping people when asked and I certainly do not mind waiting for people who are watching cutscenes. I've always opted up for waiting for the newer person but... well At this point, even as a tank I can't force them to slow down because another tank will go or a DPS will go and a healer will go etc etc. When the group demands a faster pace, I go with it. I refuse to kick anyone who is lagging because they are watching cutscenes. I've seen people try to do this in some roulettes and I always vote against kicking them.



By Jan 2014 I already had to get a full party to mostly get a good experience and even then, by the end of the Praetorium run even my own friends just went and hit Lahabrea. They were just that exhausted/bored of the whole thing.

Being absolutely forced to re-watch a cutscene I've seen already? I would never queue ever again. I probably may not even help newer people unless they were truly having issues. Forcing me to rewatch cutscenes and not being able to skip them (As I have chosen to skip cutscenes I've already seen) will not make me happy and no amount of extra bonus or reward would be enough of an incentive to queue.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Besides, people are already capping their tomes with Midas, Expert Roulette and PvP. I don't actually know one person who still runs MSR to begin with.

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I only ever did it to get a little more bonus experience leveling 50-52 maybe to 60. The tomes aren't worth it when I can get them faster anywhere else.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

PF is useless, because no matter what rules you set up, by the time a group is put together, they still outnumber you, and will still run it however they please.

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Just make a 2 person party. Then it is 50/50.
But make sure that the other one is lv 60 and enter it unsynched

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Well, nobody asked them to stand around doing nothing. They were supposed to be watching the cutscenes as well. That's what everyone agreed to when they joined the Party Finder that had that condition set, in both the checkbox options and reiterated in the description box as well. Plus it was discussed in party chat before starting the run itself.



So other people agreeing to rules on how to do a run and then reneging on that promise makes me the one that's lazy? I suppose by the standard that I couldn't enforce the rules that had been set made me an ineffectual leader, but the reason I couldn't enforce them because the game doesn't allow any means of doing so. I couldn't even kick anyone out when it was the entire rest of the party that was speedrunning. Kicks are still based on majority vote. PF isn't a solution because PF rules aren't enforceable.

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Take some time and help people a bit below you so you at least have 4 friends with you; now you have more then a party and majority! Now you can do ALL the story with a group of friends!

PF is possible. I have already join a PF that ask for help to do the lvl 50 story dungeon, and no skip cs. No reward.
I guess I wasn't the only one bored at 2am, full in 10min. We have run the dungeon killing everything and let him watch every single cs before pull.

In DF. I always do it as tank and when there is a new player I ask the party to wait a bit before every boss (I do a 15 countdown before pull).
Sometime they follow sometime not. 15sec isn't a lot but I can't ask for more in a total random party.

If people are letting you watch the cutscenes at your own pace, they have none nothing wrong. If they let you idle while they kill enemies or bosses on the path ahead, again, they have done nothing wrong. The only time they are wrong is if they complain about your not keeping up, or boot you for such a thing. And these don't even remain valid as 'wrong' if you decide to harass them for going too fast.

Either accept this speedy party forming DF perk as your efficient means to clear the content (with the consequence of dealing with how the majority wants to progress), or start up your own party with your special snowflake rules. This is a matter of choice, nothing more. There is nothing to debate here.

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Originally Posted by Braneric

I'm not saying this is ever going to happen but I wonder if if redesigning CM/Prae to be be multi-stage dungeons like Coil or Alex would help by spreading the cutscenes out instead of having them all happen within a single dungeon.

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Not really. The dungeon would be so laughably easy-- more so than it already is -- queue times would become absurd just based on the fact groups could clear in 3-5 minutes. Unfortunately, there just isn't a way to fix CM/Prae. No amount of tomes will incentive the majority of people to sit through roughly an hour of cut scenes they have already seen. What I do think might help mitigate it somewhat is come 4.0, they put multiple mini-boss mobs in there to occupy those who aren't there for the story. It wouldn't be perfect, but it could keep people from leaving new players entirely behind.

I just went into my 1st Full party dungeon today (Castrum Meridianum) and it was the most horrible experience i've had in the game so far.
I've greeted the group and said i was first timer. n.o.b.o.d.y. cared, they rushed ahead, pulled mobs from 1 corner to the other, i was constantly locked out of battles, saw cutscenes one right after the other (since they went ahead while i was watching one, they completed whatever needed to be completed, then another started). I didn't do a single thing, last boss dead, which i didn't even fight, and everybody insta-left without a word.

Is this what you want to pass to newcomers? it isn't fun, it isn't pleasing, it speaks very poorly of this community mentality and how the game was designed for first timers. I know you want to do whatever daily you need doing as fast as you can but this is just retarded, i felt i was playing with dungeon clearing bots instead of human beings. I can't even imagine the amount of dungeons i've yet to do where this will happen, i was really enjoying the game so far but this really put a dent to that.

^ the only dungeons really like this are those two Main Scenario ones. SE realised their mistake afterwards and later fixed the placement of cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

^ the only dungeons really like this are those two Main Scenario ones. SE realised their mistake afterwards and later fixed the placement of cutscenes.

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That is good news i guess, i just unlocked the other one and i don't even feel like doing it, i don't mind a fast paced clear but that was just absurd.

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Originally Posted by Mael-bess

That is good news i guess, i just unlocked the other one and i don't even feel like doing it, i don't mind a fast paced clear but that was just absurd.

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Find a couple of level 60 friends that are willing to wait for you to watch CS and unsync the dungeon.

It's the best solution all around.

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Originally Posted by Mael-bess

snip

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They chose to skip cutscenes, you chose to skip gameplay. Good news though, now you can skip cutscenes and chose gameplay!

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Originally Posted by Geula

They chose to skip cutscenes, you chose to skip gameplay. Good news though, now you can skip cutscenes and chose gameplay!

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I didn't choose to skip anything...i want to watch the story i've never seen, as it is normal in any game, they just didn't cared.
Why on earth would i skip cutscenes if it's the first time i'm seeing them? Makes no sense.

Guess i'll have to find some friends.

You can rewatch cutscenes in the inn if you skipped a few. I panicked and skipped a few myself when I was doing that dungeon the first time ._.

Well i just did the other one and had to skip most cutscenes, as it was getting worse than the previous. It's really stupid that they were designed like this and even stupider they stayed this way for years. It's really not a fun conclusion to this part of the game for a new player, neither is fun for the people farming it, such a disgrace. I'll be at the inn watching this "properly" tomorrow.....

SE can't really change the old MSQ dungeons, as it would require them to redesign them into a single-player instance (the only possible way for you to watch and experience the dungeons at the same time, without having other players wait for you or speed off without you). As others have said, though, it is only those two dungeons. It is a shame that most players have to skip cutscenes in order to experience the dungeon (or vice versa), but it's just a small blemish and you'll most likely forget about the bad experience sooner or later.

I'm thankful that I've been on the game since beta phase 1 on PS3. The community, then, watched the cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I'm thankful that I've been on the game since beta phase 1 on PS3. The community, then, watched the cutscenes.

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There has always been a push to skip CSs as CM/praetorium were the thing to farm for tomes early on. The community didn't suddenly turn to shit in the last year or so :p

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I'm thankful that I've been on the game since beta phase 1 on PS3. The community, then, watched the cutscenes.

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No. No they didn't. You're looking at this with rose-tinted goggles.

I was in the beta too. I was in early access. No more than 4 days after the game was released people were speedrunning Prae and CM for tomes.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

No. No they didn't. You're looking at this with rose-tinted goggles.

I was in the beta too. I was in early access. No more than 4 days after the game was released people were speedrunning Prae and CM for tomes.

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Will agree with this as I've never seen people wait for cutscense after already running it once.

I'm just going to say this. If you're a high level doing the main story quests. Expect to run into new players, it may not happen all the time. But there are still people who are coming to the game as fresh players. The behavior in those dungeons can really tarnish the community. It's funny, people are not wanting new players to watch the cutscenes, in a story driven mmo and I'm tired of hearing that poor "watch it in the inn" excuse. It's just as annoying as the whole "don't waste my time" comment.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

It's just as annoying as the whole "don't waste my time" comment.

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Yeah, wasting time is actually kind of the point of a game :D.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I'm thankful that I've been on the game since beta phase 1 on PS3. The community, then, watched the cutscenes.

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I've been around since Phase 2 beta. Nobody wanted to stick around for cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Scorcher24

Yeah, wasting time is actually kind of the point of a game :D.

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Sort of. I may play games to waste time, but I don't enjoy wasting time (doing nothing/waiting) in video games. I logout if I find myself idling in Idle Shire (and not due to long DF queue times) and play a different game (Bravely Second, Twilight Princess HD or Bloodborne).

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Originally Posted by Scorcher24

Yeah, wasting time is actually kind of the point of a game :D.

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Almost - wasting time in an entertaining manner is. You can sit on the couch and watch your favourite performer on TV or you can sit on the couch and watch paint try. The latter will most commonly be regarded as a waste of time, the prior only if you should be doing something else in that time.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

SE can't really change the old MSQ dungeons, as it would require them to redesign them into a single-player instance (the only possible way for you to watch and experience the dungeons at the same time, without having other players wait for you or speed off without you). As others have said, though, it is only those two dungeons. It is a shame that most players have to skip cutscenes in order to experience the dungeon (or vice versa), but it's just a small blemish and you'll most likely forget about the bad experience sooner or later.

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And that's the way it should be done and it should have been done ages ago, turn it into a single player instance with maybe npc's to help you. And no i probably won't forget it, when i return to these dungeons later to farm it, whatever high players are farming here, and stump into a new player i will wonder, will i ruin his experience as mine was ruined or wait til 45+ mins of cutscenes. Most likely i won't have a say in the matter since others will rush it regardless.

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Originally Posted by Mael-bess

And that's the way it should be done and it should have been done ages ago, turn it into a single player instance with maybe npc's to help you

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As I said before, they already realised their mistake a long time ago and this is how most story duties have been since before Heavensward. Everyone understands SE messed up, and those two dungeons are not a good experience for new players, but 1) they fixed their mistake for future dungeons, 2) complaining about content that old isn't going to solve anything, and 3) the cutscenes in those two dungeons are not even that important. The majority of them in between bosses are just fillers. You won't even remember those cutscenes when you progress, and I'm sure when you're doing countless roulette's and tome farming, you will see both sides here.

Again, I completely understand where you're coming from, but SE understand this and have already changed how they implement cutscenes in Main Story duties.