A mid-core content for mid-core players.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

It looks like another version of Diadem (Hard) but no flying and no gathering. ^^;

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If the only differences you have seen are "no flying" and "no gathering", it means you didn't read the whole post. I hope you wanna say that instead of Diadem there had to be this content.

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Originally Posted by Vidrian

The start could be like a short version of the combat part, and no 50 hour preparation part.But then it'd more go into different segments where you need a few specific classes per path to know their job, and the others can just mindlessly zerg, which seems to be the main idea behind Mid-core. So for example, in 1 path you need an experienced bard and dragoon, and the rest of the party can just be any class.

The reason people won't farm 1 path, is because different paths drop gear for different classes :)
Maybe there is a certain level progression in gear, but thats not always a bad thing, because if you don't offer gear, but something like mats/mounts/pets, people will stop doing it the moment they get their item. Plus not everyone can even use the rewards, if you were to offer special crafting mats, cause not everyone does crafting or gathering.

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On this we have a pretty different opinion about how a player should face a content. I believe people should play my content (midcore) mainly for the challenge, I put aesthetics rewards only as a bonus; if you put ilev progress in it, it's like you oblige people to do that content, not for try to challenge themself but only for put a +1 on their gear.

However, in the last Live Letter Yoshida spoke about "Treasure Hunting Dungeons", I don't think it will be a midcore content cause he said that it will be difficult as the "treasure maps", but it seems a solid base for a midcore content, and has also parts of your idea, like the 3 paths thing :D

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Originally Posted by Vieilocean

On this we have a pretty different opinion about how a player should face a content. I believe people should play my content (midcore) mainly for the challenge, I put aesthetics rewards only as a bonus; if you put ilev progress in it, it's like you oblige people to do that content, not for try to challenge themself but only for put a +1 on their gear.

However, in the last Live Letter Yoshida spoke about "Treasure Hunting Dungeons", I don't think it will be a midcore content cause he said that it will be difficult as the "treasure maps", but it seems a solid base for a midcore content, and has also parts of your idea, like the 3 paths thing :D

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Unfortunately I have seen there is a LOT less interest from players in dungeons without the gear or something else you can actively link or show. Because the whole 'I like a challenge' is an attitude i see in every game, but only, only, with those who do the hardest content each patch.

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Originally Posted by Vidrian

Unfortunately I have seen there is a LOT less interest from players in dungeons without the gear or something else you can actively link or show. Because the whole 'I like a challenge' is an attitude i see in every game, but only, only, with those who do the hardest content each patch.

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That's for sure. The new generation of mmo players only cares about rewards, most gain with the least pain --> Fun = Rewards. However I proposed a content that it's good for me and for people like me, and also maybe bring back a little the old school mmo philosophy. I hope you're one of us :D

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Originally Posted by Vieilocean

That's for sure. The new generation of mmo players only cares about rewards, most gain with the least pain --> Fun = Rewards. However I proposed a content that it's good for me and for people like me, and also maybe bring back a little the old school mmo philosophy. I hope you're one of us :D

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I'd do it. But I don't like statics because I always want to meet new people. And I'm afraid without actual rewards, few will do this after the first week of just trying it out for the sake of 'new content'. And then its back to statics or hours of queue because of the impopularity because of.. you guessed it... the lack of rewards :(

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Originally Posted by Vidrian

I'd do it. But I don't like statics because I always want to meet new people. And I'm afraid without actual rewards, few will do this after the first week of just trying it out for the sake of 'new content'. And then its back to statics or hours of queue because of the impopularity because of.. you guessed it... the lack of rewards :(

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As I said hundred times, this content IS and MUST BE pug-able, it only pushes the basic mechanics (dodge, aggro, dps priority, etc.). For the reward part : a unique armor+weapon set (only glamour, but a very good one like a relic armor) it will be more then enough for me.

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Originally Posted by Vieilocean

As I said hundred times, this content IS and MUST BE pug-able, it only pushes the basic mechanics (dodge, aggro, dps priority, etc.). For the reward part : a unique armor+weapon set (only glamour, but a very good one like a relic armor) it will be more then enough for me.

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Content ending in a difficult boss that boots you out completely after a single wipe is by nature not going to be puggable, though.

Add to that the fact that your rewards are glamour pieces and well... yeah. Dead on arrival.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Content ending in a difficult boss that boots you out completely after a single wipe is by nature not going to be puggable, though.

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I never said that my content is perfect, I also asked for suggestions and other ideas for a different content from expert dungeons and trials. However the 70% or more of replies on this thread are "DOA", but without any idea or suggestions. And then before replying read the whole thread, because I said like 1000 times that you do not need the clear to have rewards, the last boss is solely for glory, and after months when all people know the startegy, it can be cleared with an organized PUG-party, obviously not a DF pug-party. I don't really comprehend why so many people wanna a sure clear for every single content. Do people have some kind of strange complex or what?

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Add to that the fact that your rewards are glamour pieces and well... yeah. Dead on arrival.

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On this is better for everyone if I do not reply.

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Originally Posted by Vieilocean

I never said that my content is perfect, I also asked for suggestions and other ideas for a different content from expert dungeons and trials. However the 70% or more of replies on this thread are "DOA", but without any idea or suggestions. And then before replying read the whole thread, because I said like 1000 times that you do not need the clear to have rewards, the last boss is solely for glory, and after months when all people know the startegy, it can be cleared with an organized PUG-party, obviously not a DF pug-party. I don't really comprehend why so many people wanna a sure clear for every single content. Do people have some kind of strange complex or nobody has read completely this thread?

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Farming doesn't actually work this way, though. Even if you put together a team of 8 people that can you know can clear the content, often there's small differences in strategy that can lead to a couple of wipes before you get everything worked out. The fact that the dungeon makes you start completely over from the beginning makes even a single misstep catastrophic to not only the run but the entire group. I dunno about you, but if I went to do content like this and after hours of slogging through trash the group wiped to something stupid at the boss rendering my entry fee effectively wasted, I'd just bail. The fact that there are rewards for killing trash is immaterial to me as anyone can go into content and kill trash, even if it's gimmicky trash that's more organized than usual. I don't typically go into a dungeon to do the first boss and then leave. The only time I would is if I'm farming some particular glamour piece, and honestly in 2 years in this game I've done this exactly once.

As far as suggestions go, you honestly haven't seemed very receptive toward input from the beginning so why would we? You stomp in here to vehemently defend your idea every single time you reply. Why would we bother making suggestions on how to change it when you can't even accept basic criticism without being aggressive in your replies?

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On this is better for everyone if I do not reply.

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The fact that you have glamour items as its only reward limits its appeal from the get-go. I know plenty of midcore to hardcore raiders that don't even bother glamouring their characters; they just go around with their equipment looking however because they're only interested in progression. So automatically, you eliminate them as people that would be interested in the content. Why would they go bother doing the content if there's no reward in it that interests them? If you make the glamour items too hard to get, then people will simply use other items. If the same items drop from the trash as from the bosses, people won't even bother trying to clear it. They'll just go in, nuke trash, and then leave. Tome rewards aren't very helpful either as it would probably be faster and more efficient to just farm tomes from content that doesn't charge you an entry fee in the very currency you're trying to farm.

I think if Midas normal was turned into a larger dungeon, instead of just a pittance of mobs before the boss, that can serve as midcore content. they are already suggesting expanding the normal dungeon can work given the way they cut it down during savage to just the boss.

if you are looking for something more lasting, you have to think outside the box of what we currently have for activities, like xi's Campaign or 1.0s hamlet system. This is what can make diadem appealing, given some tweaks to it. Unfortunately players are in a state that craves efficiency over their own enjoyment. Like feeding an existing addiction in the hopes of a familiar high that's further and further away.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I love the punishment ideas. People keep thinking worse case scenario full wipe everytime. But the OP even mentioned phoenix down use.

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We do need a use for raising items and status effect cures.

I love the punishment ideas. People keep thinking worse case scenario full wipe everytime. But the OP even mentioned pheonix down use.

Not everyone hates punishment. Sure the act of punishment sucks. But the tense feeling you get knowing that harsh punish is around the corner is a plus to my fun. If this never worked horror games that punish you hard for a single mistake would fail. But there are people who enjoy that "tense" feeling like death could happen at anytime if you aren't fully paying attention.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Farming doesn't actually work this way, though. Even if you put together a team of 8 people that can you know can clear the content, often there's small differences in strategy that can lead to a couple of wipes before you get everything worked out. The fact that the dungeon makes you start completely over from the beginning makes even a single misstep catastrophic to not only the run but the entire group. I dunno about you, but if I went to do content like this and after hours of slogging through trash the group wiped to something stupid at the boss rendering my entry fee effectively wasted, I'd just bail. The fact that there are rewards for killing trash is immaterial to me as anyone can go into content and kill trash, even if it's gimmicky trash that's more organized than usual. I don't typically go into a dungeon to do the first boss and then leave. The only time I would is if I'm farming some particular glamour piece, and honestly in 2 years in this game I've done this exactly once.

As far as suggestions go, you honestly haven't seemed very receptive toward input from the beginning so why would we? You stomp in here to vehemently defend your idea every single time you reply. Why would we bother making suggestions on how to change it when you can't even accept basic criticism without being aggressive in your replies?

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First: when in the whole thread I offended someone, I always been polite and accepted suggestions from everyone that has not began the reply with "Dead on arrival, cause no 100% clear or poor rewards". Have you seen the content that Vidrian proposed at least?

Second: now you have posted a constructive reply. Yes, it can be frustrating the first times but with the achievement system (or a similar one), I hope you have read that point, the ones that wanna farm can do specific and organized parties, while the ones that wanna enter and farm the first trashes can do other parties. Freedom.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

The fact that you have glamour items as its only reward limits its appeal from the get-go. I know plenty of midcore to hardcore raiders that don't even bother glamouring their characters; they just go around with their equipment looking however because they're only interested in progression. So automatically, you eliminate them as people that would be interested in the content. Why would they go bother doing the content if there's no reward in it that interests them? If you make the glamour items too hard to get, then people will simply use other items. If the same items drop from the trash as from the bosses, people won't even bother trying to clear it. They'll just go in, nuke trash, and then leave. Tome rewards aren't very helpful either as it would probably be faster and more efficient to just farm tomes from content that doesn't charge you an entry fee in the very currency you're trying to farm.

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As I replied before, it's useless to reply on this matter. We have a total different point of view on this. I respect your opinion but I do not share it.

I'll be fully honest, this doesn't really seem "midcore" at all, nor something most players would be interested in. It's primarily due to certain factors:

1. Kicked out of an instance in a wipe: Why is this a major "feature" of the area? Nowhere else in the game (that I'm aware of) does the game force you out of the instance like this, and with good reason. Part of the idea behind ALL content is that, with enough time and effort, you can learn the content, get better at it, and eventually defeat it. Yet, only for this supposedly "midcore" challenge, you have to re-do the entire instance if you fail at a single part. It doesn't add anything to the "difficulty" of the content, it only adds needless frustration. "Woops, healers ate an AOE, I guess we have to re-do the last 7 quests now" is not something most, if any players would enjoy. It really only wastes time, since you can't learn the content without slogging through the entire thing. It's one thing to start a boss fight from the beginning, this is completely different.

This makes completing the boss nearly impossible, especially if the boss is particularly difficult. Not only do you have to slog your way through 10 possibly long and involved quests to get to the fight, but you also have to beat it in one try or you have to re-do literally all of the 10 quests AND lose tomes. If the boss wasn't particularly difficult, that might be fine. But according to this it's "EX Primal difficulty", which is completely ridiculous. EX Primals let you re-try the content instantly on a wipe, as many times as you like, with no real downside, especially not re-doing an entire 10 quests in a (presumably) large instanced area. There's also the difficulty of designing an epic, "EX Primal like fight" for content that most people won't even be able to reach in the first place. It would be a complete waste of resources, and a major waste of time for most players. More critically, anything that relies even partially on knowledge of the fight (as you suggest the final boss and sub-bosses should be), this requirement significantly hurts. If you have to re-do the entire instance because you don't know one of 11 parts extremely well...most people just won't re-do it. They'll just quit.

2. Puggable? : Explain once again how this content is puggable? It has a lot of factors that make it incredibly hard to pug. First off, this sounds like a very long instance. 10 quests plus an EX primal level fight is going to take a long time. Content which requires a long time to get done is much better done with statics, or FCs. That way players know they can trust each other (to a degree at least), and more critically they can plan time in their schedule to run long content. Even Diadem was only 1.5 hours (and is even shorter now). If I understand, this sounds more like a 3 hour challenge, and thus something you can't just start randomly. The extremely high difficulty as well makes teaming up with random strangers increasingly unlikely. Sure, there won't be difficult mechanics, but there is still a level of coordination that would be expected, especially if the content is as long and difficult as you seem to be implying. Plus, with the supposedly complex nature of the area with patrols etc, it encourages players to use the same strategies and tactics each time it is ran...which hurts PUGs even more should the tanks be working differently. None of the elements here seem remotely puggable, in fact it seems more like an extremely hardcore raid than anything else.

3. Tome Cost: This tome cost will completely kill the content. Sure your goal is to keep away "Casuals" (which is incredibly strange for content that is supposed to be Mid-core in the first place). You have content that takes an incredible amount of time to complete (presumably), with extremely high difficulty, that gear can't make easier, and you decide to put a needless cost on it? People won't waste a resource that's vaguely valuable on something that's easy to fail and without any "useful" rewards, especially when there's already content that provides useful rewards in less time, effort, and can be more fun (EX Primals can be a blast). There is a reason no other content is gated behind a resource cost like this.

4. Rewards: The lack of rewards will cause a major disinterest in the content. Glamour only armor sets/weapons isn't something most people are willing to work for. If you included, for example, a number of special mounts or something it might have more pull, but probably not enough considering the difficulty. That you have to spend a resource that can provide other rewards only compounds this issue.

While there's some decent ideas here (large explorable areas and fun quests), I think you lost most people once you got into the details.

You can't post an idea here without someone trying to find a possible flaw in it. Even if that flaw is an opinion.

People pointing out personal distaste as if that's how everyone will feel. There are people who hate high end content because they feel anxious someone will belittle them. Should high end content not exist?

There are people who avoid doing dungeons because they find them brain dead easy. Should they just not exist?

Saying "I know people who don't bother to glamour" as a reasoning why the rewards aren't worth it. Well as long as the rewards have a market. I guess the people you know who don't glamour. This isn't their cup of tea and they can skip. This is why having multiple things to do is better than the same two extremes we're always getting.




I agree with others that your idea just sounds like how Diadem should've been.

I think it's a nice idea really. The only thing I am a bit iffy on is using glamour as a reward. If this is a popular instance idea, the glamours will be widely available and have very little value in the long run over time. My little suggestion would be that you get other things and maybe glamour as a bonus item. For instance, food, potions and such things you would use for savage raids if you felt so inclined or could sell for money to people who would use them. They could be a lower quality than the crafted ones but it's not like you are ever going to get tired of having them.

Merely having glamour or a title/achievement as a reward hasn't been enough to motivate people to do content based on SE's prior experiments. For instance, the main reason to do the first savage dungeon made was just a achievement/title. It wasn't very popular content. Getting people to attempt anything that they might have to put some effort forth is a bit outside many's comfort zone. Granted, my suggestion probably isn't much better than using glamour as a motivator. It seems gear that makes you "play better" is the only thing that gets people to do things in droves (I mean the idea that it makes you "play better" seems to help if you think you play good, poorly or are industrious, lazy, whatever.) Bonus points if it's a flashy looking weapon or there is some notion they could be "first", even if its just a grind anyone can do.

Suggest this however you want but 2 things:
1. Learn how to take criticism especially if you ask for thoughts on the idea
2. If you want to suggest this as it is DONT CALL IT MIDCORE. As it is this is in no way midcore

I offer suggestion that most of this instances be randomized. So it doesn't feel like you're just repeating and grinding once you learn it.

And without much development time cost. They could just up the difficult when new tier of gear comes out. Put the old top tier glamour as trash drops(or something equivalent) And make the new glamour the main prize.

The main reason I can't stay attached to any of these instances is because everything is choreographed.

The game as a whole suffers from a lack of incentives and motivation. because of it's very design. i'm a pretty avid gamer mostly casual in terms of play time and stuff. but I love challenges and difficult stuff.

in xiv though there's no motivation to do any of that. I'd like to do savage but really lack the motivation. I would have done seph ex but again motivation. same with a couple of other bits i'm yet to clear. the rewards don't last long enough, and neither does the difficulty. people are face rolling fights that were challenging once upon a time. and at some point ppl will be facerolling there way through savage, and that paired with the fact the rewards will be junk the moment the next patch lands just kills my motivation entirely.

by the games design midcore content already exists. midas savage may be considered hard core now. but It will phase into midcore and then into lollable casual. because the milestones are forever changing,

in a way it's quite saddening because i'd love to invest more into my character and do the harder content andstuff but in truth it just isn't worth it.
I let my sub lapse end of 2.55 just before heavensward release. resubbed 6-7 weeks ago. and have my core jobs as geared if not better geared than friends who have played continuously. and I don't takegear seriously because there's no point. I invest time building my character and then it's all for nothing. which again is a motivation killer.

kind of a shame really. the story has been great and that's pretty much the one thing that keeps my interest at the minute. i'd invest tons of time in clearing harder content and better gear if it was actually worth it.

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Originally Posted by Claymore65

I'll be fully honest, this doesn't really seem "midcore" at all, nor something most players would be interested in. It's primarily due to certain factors:

1. Kicked out of an instance in a wipe: Why is this a major "feature" of the area? Nowhere else in the game (that I'm aware of) does the game force you out of the instance like this, and with good reason. Part of the idea behind ALL content is that, with enough time and effort, you can learn the content, get better at it, and eventually defeat it. Yet, only for this supposedly "midcore" challenge, you have to re-do the entire instance if you fail at a single part. It doesn't add anything to the "difficulty" of the content, it only adds needless frustration. "Woops, healers ate an AOE, I guess we have to re-do the last 7 quests now" is not something most, if any players would enjoy. It really only wastes time, since you can't learn the content without slogging through the entire thing. It's one thing to start a boss fight from the beginning, this is completely different.

This makes completing the boss nearly impossible, especially if the boss is particularly difficult. Not only do you have to slog your way through 10 possibly long and involved quests to get to the fight, but you also have to beat it in one try or you have to re-do literally all of the 10 quests AND lose tomes. If the boss wasn't particularly difficult, that might be fine. But according to this it's "EX Primal difficulty", which is completely ridiculous. EX Primals let you re-try the content instantly on a wipe, as many times as you like, with no real downside, especially not re-doing an entire 10 quests in a (presumably) large instanced area. There's also the difficulty of designing an epic, "EX Primal like fight" for content that most people won't even be able to reach in the first place. It would be a complete waste of resources, and a major waste of time for most players. More critically, anything that relies even partially on knowledge of the fight (as you suggest the final boss and sub-bosses should be), this requirement significantly hurts. If you have to re-do the entire instance because you don't know one of 11 parts extremely well...most people just won't re-do it. They'll just quit.

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First of all thanks for this reply, at least you have read the whole OP.
- Kick from the istance. I can comprehend that people can see it as a too severe punishment, but it occurs on FULL wipes (and I suggested also a revamp for the phoenix down item) and failing the Elite Missions. Maybe both at the same time are a little too much, we can keep only the kick from full wipes for example.
- Learning the content. It's a content that should last till the end of the game, not only a patch cycle. So also if learning the mid-bosses or last boss takes a few months, it's not a problem. Again the big fights (mid and last bosses) have only basic mechanics, so the only thing you must learn are aoe patters and some mechanic based on reflexes not on coordination. So the difficulty it's similar to the EX trials, but with mechanics centered on reflexes not on coordination, ones all knows the fight the only way to wipe it's people losing attention. Surely it's only clearable with perfect runs, but the fun it's all there.

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Originally Posted by Claymore65

2. Puggable? : Explain once again how this content is puggable? It has a lot of factors that make it incredibly hard to pug. First off, this sounds like a very long instance. 10 quests plus an EX primal level fight is going to take a long time. Content which requires a long time to get done is much better done with statics, or FCs. That way players know they can trust each other (to a degree at least), and more critically they can plan time in their schedule to run long content. Even Diadem was only 1.5 hours (and is even shorter now). If I understand, this sounds more like a 3 hour challenge, and thus something you can't just start randomly. The extremely high difficulty as well makes teaming up with random strangers increasingly unlikely. Sure, there won't be difficult mechanics, but there is still a level of coordination that would be expected, especially if the content is as long and difficult as you seem to be implying. Plus, with the supposedly complex nature of the area with patrols etc, it encourages players to use the same strategies and tactics each time it is ran...which hurts PUGs even more should the tanks be working differently. None of the elements here seem remotely puggable, in fact it seems more like an extremely hardcore raid than anything else.

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Puggable for me it's a content that you can clear without a static. This wouldn't mean that can be cleared with DF. With DF you can enter and do what you can, but for aiming a clear you need and organized pug party on PF. Also for this I put the achievement system. However I think it can be considered and cleared with midcore players in PF, cause more then coordination it requires focus. Maybe I'm wrong, but surely your doubts are legitimates.

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Originally Posted by Claymore65

3. Tome Cost: This tome cost will completely kill the content. Sure your goal is to keep away "Casuals" (which is incredibly strange for content that is supposed to be Mid-core in the first place). You have content that takes an incredible amount of time to complete (presumably), with extremely high difficulty, that gear can't make easier, and you decide to put a needless cost on it? People won't waste a resource that's vaguely valuable on something that's easy to fail and without any "useful" rewards, especially when there's already content that provides useful rewards in less time, effort, and can be more fun (EX Primals can be a blast). There is a reason no other content is gated behind a resource cost like this.

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As I wrote before this is a feature that I only put to keep away trolls not casuals. Cause with casuals you surely can't clear the content, but you can reach and clear the firsts Elite quests that completely refund the initial fee; while trolls that make the party wipe on purpose on the first pull are only disturbing. However if considered too impopular it can be totally removed.

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Originally Posted by Claymore65

4. Rewards: The lack of rewards will cause a major disinterest in the content. Glamour only armor sets/weapons isn't something most people are willing to work for. If you included, for example, a number of special mounts or something it might have more pull, but probably not enough considering the difficulty. That you have to spend a resource that can provide other rewards only compounds this issue.

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On this you can put all the rewards in the world like minipet, mounts, glamour, barding, furnishings...all but not ilev progression.

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Originally Posted by Claymore65

While there's some decent ideas here (large explorable areas and fun quests), I think you lost most people once you got into the details.

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I only wrote a content good for me, but I'm happy that some of the features are good for someone.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I love the punishment ideas. People keep thinking worse case scenario full wipe everytime. But the OP even mentioned pheonix down use.

Not everyone hates punishment. Sure the act of punishment sucks. But the tense feeling you get knowing that harsh punish is around the corner is a plus to my fun. If this never worked horror games that punish you hard for a single mistake would fail. But there are people who enjoy that "tense" feeling like death could happen at anytime if you aren't fully paying attention.

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Thanks for the appreciation.And yes, the difficulty it's all about paying attention and not to cooperate and coordinate with others. Everyone must do his part.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

You can't post an idea here without someone trying to find a possible flaw in it. Even if that flaw is an opinion.

People pointing out personal distaste as if that's how everyone will feel. There are people who hate high end content because they feel anxious someone will belittle them. Should high end content not exist?

There are people who avoid doing dungeons because they find them brain dead easy. Should they just not exist?

Saying "I know people who don't bother to glamour" as a reasoning why the rewards aren't worth it. Well as long as the rewards have a market. I guess the people you know who don't glamour. This isn't their cup of tea and they can skip. This is why having multiple things to do is better than the same two extremes we're always getting.

I agree with others that your idea just sounds like how Diadem should've been.

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I perfectly agree. In my content there're surely flaws and I accept every suggest. The replies that I do not accept are the ones that only say "Dead on arrival cause not 100% clear and only glamour rewards", cause :
- they miss the point of the whole OP : I only want a midcore content that differs from the ones we have now, that's why I also wrote in OP "Show your content". I do not want necessarily THIS content, it's only the proposal of mine.
- they're not constructive. Writing this is DoA without any suggestion or proposal of any kind it's totally useless.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I offer suggestion that most of this instances be randomized. So it doesn't feel like you're just repeating and grinding once you learn it.

And without much development time cost. They could just up the difficult when new tier of gear comes out. Put the old top tier glamour as trash drops(or something equivalent) And make the new glamour the main prize.

The main reason I can't stay attached to any of these instances is because everything is choreographed.

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It's real that everything is choreographed in all the instance we have; but if you totally randomized the map, mobs spawns and bosses (+ all the features I wrote) it will be too stressfull and too RNG. There must be progress, and if you're good you must have more chances to clear it, and not hoping in RNG. So for :
- Mobs. Instead of a random spawn I prefer a more complex system of patrols, so you know what to expect but you're not completely sure on what will happen.
- Bosses. An extreme version of Giruveganus (last boss of Stone Vigil HM, or Diresaurs in Heavensward) : a boss with a skill-set of aoes, that do NOT cast them in a pattern (choreography) but randomly, and obviously aoes are not visually shows (no aoe marks on ground). So all know that if the boss is crossing arms means that he's casting a ball of fire on the target he's facing and so on...

A content not totally RNG but neither fully choreographed.

I think the basic issue with your raid is this: most people don't like not clearing a content, regardless of rewards they might or might not be getting. It might be something you personally enjoy, but the vast majority of people (at least in this game) do not. So a content designed for frequent failure is going to be unattractive from the get-go. Especially when that failure is paired with being kicked from the instance where you have to pay a fee to get into in the first place

I also think your idea of "puggable" may be a bit different from most people's, as most use it to mean DF'able. And as we know, a hardcore raid is not DF'able in the least. Even ex Primals are hard to DF until everyone is so overgeared that mechanics cease to matter.

Personally, I would not bother to waste my time and tomes on something that has such a high risk of failure.

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

I think the basic issue with your raid is this: most people don't like not clearing a content, regardless of rewards they might or might not be getting. It might be something you personally enjoy, but the vast majority of people (at least in this game) do not. So a content designed for frequent failure is going to be unattractive from the get-go. Especially when that failure is paired with being kicked from the instance where you have to pay a fee to get into in the first place

I also think your idea of "puggable" may be a bit different from most people's, as most use it to mean DF'able. And as we know, a hardcore raid is not DF'able in the least. Even ex Primals are hard to DF until everyone is so overgeared that mechanics cease to matter.

Personally, I would not bother to waste my time and tomes on something that has such a high risk of failure.

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I agree that my ideas are a bit different from most people. As I said before, I've an old conception of mmo-player.
I respect your thought though.

A ray of light in these dark times. Perhaps the twelve have listened to my prayer.

https://i.imgur.com/47Ucgpa.png

https://i.imgur.com/4NVjZ9N.png

in my opinion as i read the post of friend.. i guess the need to give much focus in pve ( as the game it is. )

actually it wil be more better if they put up to 10-15 man raid content and also new raid dungeons

i hope for it .

also mode scale in raids will be awesome .

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Originally Posted by Vieilocean

A ray of light in these dark times. Perhaps the twelve have listened to my prayer.

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Biggest difference between what you posted and what they're actually doing is the fact that progress is saved. :P

They've probably been planning this for months but are leery to announce anything too far in advance.

Midas savage is midcore.

A5s especially is even easier than an extreme primal.

As for the mechanics you suggest, I don't like them.

I don't think some people realize how mid-core this game already is. There's a smudge of content at the end of the long road for players who are really deep into the game, and then there's a plethora of grind content meant for players who don't have the time or devotion to run the smudge of content at the end (Albeit, that smudge of content can feel like the key to the royal promenade, so to speak). The only content I wish they would do differently is the freaking anima weapon stuff. Why make people use a lower powered version of a weapon that is supposed to be the base version already, and why make people fate grind for random rocks instead of just letting them grind currency or something to buy the rocks needed from a vendor? At least with currency people have a metric they can go by. Running around in the fields doing randomly spawning fates in the hope that a magical rng fairy smiles on you is not a pleasing experience! Neither is getting currency that is probably out-dated right now.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Biggest difference between what you posted and what they're actually doing is the fact that progress is saved. :P

They've probably been planning this for months but are leery to announce anything too far in advance.

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I never said that I wanted ONLY my content in. I expressly wrote in OT that mine is a suggestion of mid-core content, and invited people to write their own mid-core content.

And surely SE had plan "Palace of the Dead" months ago, and I'm happy with this cause they known the lack of mid-core content in the game.