Accuracy thread again!

I've noticed quite a few Miasma misses in the new dungeons, makes me sad when I only Bane Bio and BioII :C

All in all tho, not a huge deal, still helping with some damage even if it isn't at full potential.

Think they wanted healers to heal and tanks to tank. Going to dps stance is a luxury now. If you want to dps add some accuracy to your prototype/primal gear.

People complained about tanks should be a tanking class and healers should be a healing class: SE gives a middle ground and people still complain

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

I would surely do this if people would not badmouth me. I hate DPSing. I only do it because people point fingers when I don't. And SE is making my life even harder by letting my Assize miss all 8 mobs on a pull.

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See, this is the whole point... I personally believe healers should help with the DPS. because that's how you make dungeon run go faster. You can choose not to DPS, and I don't blame you.. but you have given with that chance. Now, what worries me here is the direction where SE heading. We are required to use specific materia in order to land offensive spells just like pre 3.2.. They already removed accuracy stat from us, so it's even harder to achieve that goal. If current new dungeons make you miss a lot, imagine what happens in the next update.

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Originally Posted by konage

Think they wanted healers to heal and tanks to tank. Going to dps stance is a luxury now. If you want to dps add some accuracy to your prototype/primal gear.

People complained about tanks should be a tanking class and healers should be a healing class: SE gives a middle ground and people still complain

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People complain because it's much more complicated now. This idea doesn't prevent healers from DPSing. It only gives them a hard time and encourage them to spam more spells so it will finally land. If you are the type of player who usually DPS as a healer. If you see your stone 3 miss, you don't go.. "Oh, it\\'s not landing, guys, I'm quitting DPS". I personally don't mind slotting accuracy materia. So I'm not entirely against it, but there is a lot of misconception here. SE didn\\'t make healers just to heal. If their DPS was such a huge problem, WHMs wouldn\\'t get Aero 3 and assize with 300 potency. They simply want us to grind.

Well with new gear having materia slots and using ACC Vs, you could have enough acc if dps is that important. Helps magic acc is lower than physical.

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Originally Posted by AngelicSence

People complain because it's much more complicated now. This idea doesn't prevent healers from DPSing. It only gives them a hard time and encourage them to spam more spells so it will finally land. If you are the type of player who usually DPS as a healer. If you see your stone 3 miss, you don't go.. "Oh, it\\'s not landing, guys, I'm quitting DPS". I personally don't mind slotting accuracy materia. So I'm not entirely against it, but there is a lot of misconception here. SE didn\\'t make healers just to heal. If their DPS was such a huge problem, WHMs wouldn\\'t get Aero 3 and assize with 300 potency. They simply want us to grind.

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I know healers aren't meant just ho heal. SE gave options is materia melding. Either meld to heal better or meld to dps better. This allows healers that aren't use to healing more leeway, and healers that are capable of healing content to spec for damage.

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Originally Posted by konage

Think they wanted healers to heal and tanks to tank. Going to dps stance is a luxury now. If you want to dps add some accuracy to your prototype/primal gear.

People complained about tanks should be a tanking class and healers should be a healing class: SE gives a middle ground and people still complain

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True, people wanted tanks to tank and healers to heal. But you're forgetting acc is not only about dps, at least for SCH.
It's fun, because while I was trying to down SephEX with my static, so much shit went down, and had to heal so much because people died, that I was nearly MP starved and guess what I missed?
Energy Drain. All tree of them. Atherflow on CD. So, do I shoot myself in the head losing the fairy that's actually helping me heal to get 2k MP back -and maybe miss Energy Drains again-, or burn the stacks into an indomitibility (if it's not on cd for whatever reason) and two Lustrates, being forced to use succor again, and be MP starved again, and wait till Dissipation buff goes down so I can summon the fairy again (for the awesome price of 2k MP), and wait some more for Aetherflow to be up again?
Shit happens. And if I wipe at 5% because I was OOM because my EDs missed, I'm going to be extremely pissed.

The acc problem is riddiculus, because I could meld crit+ss/pie into my raid gear and be more efficient as a healer (what they're actually asking I suppose), or meld acc to, let alone dps, be almost sure I get my MP back everytime I try, and be effectively efficient, because no MP no party.
It's not a choice. It's like they're putting your lunch (that you got yourself) on a pillar and telling you you can try getting it as you are -but it might fall down while you get it-, or go buy a net or something to be sure to get it back. Or, if you don't like it, I suppose you can go get something else to eat.

And before someone says a SCH shouldn't be MP starved, I'll say that 1. it's thanks to ED and 2. There's a lot of raid damage going down in new content, and while learning the fight it CAN happen to be MP starved.
I won't complain as much is they actually solve this -but still complain, because acc requirement are stupid (acc is stupid by itself, and so is parry), and while 3.0-3.1 was more on player skills (can you tank this and hold hate and mitigate properly without Tank Stance on? Can you find room to DPS without killing the whole party because you didn't heal in time?), this time is locked behind gear, and how much money you have.
I won't be surprised if we see an increase of gil buying, either.

I got my accuracy to 450 and I haven't noticed a single miss since. (Though the only 'hard' content I've done recently is seph EX, I'm sure I'll start missing again when I do savage. It's nice though.)

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Originally Posted by konage

Think they wanted healers to heal and tanks to tank. Going to dps stance is a luxury now. If you want to dps add some accuracy to your prototype/primal gear.

People complained about tanks should be a tanking class and healers should be a healing class: SE gives a middle ground and people still complain

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The issue I have there is at least tanks have a rotation to maintain even if they are 'only tanking'. When you shove a healer into expert roulette and make them start missing to the point that it is actually frustrating to even try to dps and my HoTs can take care of 75% of the healing...what else am I supposed to do but stand there? I get that in higher level content that is likely not as much of a problem but that is why they should have given cleric a boost to accuracy or something just enough to meet casual content thresholds consistently.

As a WHM it isn't like my dps rotation is exactly high quality entertainment to begin with let alone when Stone II misses five times or I have to tab through targets to see which of the five my Aero III missed. The entertaining bit was weaving in dots between heals without causing a death. Difficult to do that smoothly with the number of misses that require you to recast moves again and again. They fixed tanks so they wouldn't be going strength specs/gear/materia/stances, which is not really a tank stat to begin with. Then try to force healers to spec accuracy instead of...you know...a healing stat? It just boggles my mind. Because I /am/ a healer I will probably still go healer stats but that means I'm expecting them to give me more to do on the healing front across the board or fix it if that can't be managed.

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Originally Posted by konage

Think they wanted healers to heal and tanks to tank. Going to dps stance is a luxury now. If you want to dps add some accuracy to your prototype/primal gear.

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I think people want those roles to do those things...in content that can't be done with your keyboard on your lap, a beer in one hand and some chips in the four fingers of your other hand. See my earlier post, where I point out that making raids more healing-intensive rather than largely solo-healed by a WHM/Diurnal Astrologian is something I would like to see done in either Midas Savage, or future raids.

I don't toggle Cleric Stance and DPS in expert dungeons because it's "difficult" and I like the "challenge". I toggle it because it speeds the run up and I just want to get the heck out of there as soon as possible so I can do more interesting things. Missing so much on all of my attack spells just feels insulting when I view it in that vacuum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss0kFNUP4P4

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Originally Posted by Ragology

NO! Your job is to HEAL. Focus on your main role and leave damage to the DPS.

:p

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Until the dungeons lock out the 2 dps and the tank and the healer have to break them out.

Which happens in the two new dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Until the dungeons lock out the 2 dps and the tank and the healer have to break them out.

Which happens in the two new dungeons.

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Yeah I agree with this, both the first boss and last boss of antitower have mechanics that get significantly harder if the healer is lazy, what with 2 people being transformed.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Until the dungeons lock out the 2 dps and the tank and the healer have to break them out.

Which happens in the two new dungeons.

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They die in like 2 Energy Drains, this seriously is the most pathetic argument against healer accuracy requirements. If you're wiping on that mechanic, you clearly know nothing about your job.

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

They die in like 2 Energy Drains, this seriously is the most pathetic argument against healer accuracy requirements. If you're wiping on that mechanic, you clearly know nothing about your job.

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They're referring to the healer not dpsing at all like the person they quoted is saying. Forcing the tank to run around and kill both adds is just rude.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

They're referring to the healer not dpsing at all like the person they quoted is saying. Forcing the tank to run around and kill both adds is just rude.

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If you look at the thread they made, you can see that they are complaining about healer accuracy requirements using that specific example again. I'm all for good arguments towards why us healers should get accuracy on our gear, but using the dolls on Anti-Tower as a reason is kind of weak.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

NO! Your job is to HEAL. Focus on your main role and leave damage to the DPS.

:p

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It is really reducing...

Ya ive been missing a lot more. Good thing im a sch and I tend to heal only about 10% of the time the whole dungeon. Im spoiled and make selene do all my heal work lol.
I don't meld acc though as so far there seems to be some heavy healing on raids non normal.

Things die pretty fast in the new dungeons ill dps, but im not to worried with max numbers on the casual stuff.

I feel you though, missing on say energy drain or any utilities spells would suck. Non healers tend to bash us healers, I guess they don't know how to play our class. I Get mp back if my energy drain lands, to heal you tanks and dps who complain that healers dont need acc.

For the ppl who say my job is to heal and not dps. I say well has a sch I heal only 10% to 15% of the time in the new dungeons with everyone topped off or nowhere close to being in danger, if I shouldn't dps. Which dance emote would you guys like me to press while my fairy heals the tank?

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Originally Posted by Whiteprincess

Which dance emote would you guys like me to press while my fairy heals the tank?

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Please, obviously you need to /cheer and /rally to encourage the DPS so they pump out more damage. Dancing, especially in skimpy outfits, would simply distract them and lower their output (regardless of gender)

This is even more bothersome now that I realized that I'm wasting MP. Especially with Aeros. Aero III is missing so much that sometimes I have to cast it 3 times consecutively, not to mention on Bosses when I miss Aero 2 so many times that my Aero 3 duration is less than 10 seconds and I need to recast it after putting the other dots, ruining my rotation. Seriously, can at least our DoTs be able to always hit the target?

Or you could meld accuracy instead of healing material if your healing 10% of the time.

Random tangent - has anyone noticed any distinct accuracy issues in Midas (normal) raids? I seem to have a consistent 95-99% hit rate in there and I'm pretty certain I don't have a BRD in every single one of my runs.

If that's true, that's a pretty odd design choice to have the EX dungeons require a higher accuracy than the casual raid, in my opinion.

Non-Aspected DoTs like Astro's Combusts and Archaist Bio will always hit, but aspected like Aero will not because of the initial damage. White Mage has the damage, but should be reminded none of the damage kills are guaranteed hits compared to the other healers. I stand by the idea that ACC is still the best value meld for healers aside from making up PIE due to lower secondary stats. Like Seph EX weapon not having any compared to Gordian/Relic (Eso weapon always had the lowest). Now if you are a "stand there and don't DPS" healer, god speed.

I missed everywhere from Seph Ex, Midas Normal, etc. I still feel getting to 450+ is a more comfortable level even if its not cap.

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Originally Posted by konage

Or you could meld accuracy instead of healing material if your healing 10% of the time.

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I'm afraid, that is not the case, most other jobs don't bother with accuracy material because they have accuracy sub status on their gear. So they can further maximize their character by slotting critical/determination material. Healers will be losing their heal/attack power in a long run if they slot accuracy. Right now, it's still ok, but annoying. Imagine the next update, and another after that - every job will recieve more accuracy because difficulty gets higher and healers only continue to miss more. Ofc, we don't know what to expect in the next update, but as it's right now, it feels bitter on healers with naturally low accuracy. Think about it, we never had this problem before, we used to have accuracy gear and nothing was terrible about. Devs decided to challenge us. Healers who can't stance dance = black mages who can't flare x2 and spam fire 2 only.

At the very least they should allow WHM/AST/SCH to be able to cross class Hawk's Eye.

I have actually just recently started healing more and doing the new dungeons as scholar, like damn it's horrible missing so many attacks
Would it of been so hard to add acc to the gear? Just like how there was no ss on the blm gear.... sigh

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Originally Posted by Niroken

At the very least they should allow WHM/AST/SCH to be able to cross class Hawk's Eye.

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That'd be rather fun, but sadly all 5 of my cross class slots are required on scholar.

Just hit my goal of 501 accuracy though. I've only seen one miss since and it was in Seph EX. I'm pretty happy.

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Originally Posted by AngelicSence

I'm afraid, that is not the case, most other jobs don't bother with ..

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In current conditions healers have baseline damage output X, accuracy is a powerful way to increase that baseline. It also offers a trade off in that it does not also increase their primary role (healing). Since we have customization available in the form materia slots, this creates actual meaningful gearing choices between relatively incomparable benefits. It demands players strike a balance between finding a good level for how much they contribute to their primary concern without also neglecting an important but secondary concern. For me this speaks to the issue being more that other classes/roles don't currently have comparable meaningful choices. Imagine say if DPS gear was naturally very deficient in VIT giving them a very low baseline HP total. Gearing now becomes a meaningful choice between increasing their primary function and getting advancement in a secondary concern.

Accuracy is fine when you can afford melding. I have many crafted 220 pieces, pentamelded many of them with ACC V / IV, and I still miss just as much as before in the ex dungeons. (for some reason, Antitower is the worst of them). I'd really love to know up to how much accuracy I'm supposed to reach to avoid missing that much, when I've already spent millions on melding.
Melding lore 220 /midas with just one or two Acc materias wouldn't cut it, even close.

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Originally Posted by cgbspender

Accuracy is fine when you can afford melding. I have many crafted 220 pieces, pentamelded many of them with ACC V / IV, and I still miss just as much as before in the ex dungeons. (for some reason, Antitower is the worst of them). I'd really love to know up to how much accuracy I'm supposed to reach to avoid missing that much, when I've already spent millions on melding.
Melding lore 220 /midas with just one or two Acc materias wouldn't cut it, even close.

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What is "That Much". What exactly is your miss rate. What exactly is your total accuracy melded? What is the exact difference in your hit rate between Antitower and Lost City? Your claims here would seem to imply something between +150 to +200 ACC over baseline depending what you by "many of them" - seriously, numbers?. If strapping on a ton of accuracy does literally nothing, what's the point of even asking for accuracy native on gear?

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Originally Posted by cgbspender

Accuracy is fine when you can afford melding. I have many crafted 220 pieces, pentamelded many of them with ACC V / IV, and I still miss just as much as before in the ex dungeons. (for some reason, Antitower is the worst of them). I'd really love to know up to how much accuracy I'm supposed to reach to avoid missing that much, when I've already spent millions on melding.
Melding lore 220 /midas with just one or two Acc materias wouldn't cut it, even close.

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According to your Lodestone, you currently have 444 accuracy on your WHM. If you're noticing a significant amount of misses, either you're eye balling too hard or something is wrong with the parser you're using. I say this because of the following comments from a different thread on the general OF:

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I maintain good DPS as a SCH in both new dungeons. I've slotted in 5 Tier V accuracy materia so far, and am at 414. I'm hitting over 99% of the time.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

He just said he has 520 accuracy on his scholar. That's more than enough to not miss in antitower.

Heck I'm at 462 and I don't miss in there either.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Energy Drain, Broil, aero, miasma, and the occasional ruin II to avoid an aoe say hello. (Miasma II if 3 or more targets as well) Sitting at 520ish and I haven't noticed a miss yet.

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I ask you check your data again just to be sure because what you speak is a contradiction to some of the comments listed above. My gut tells me the cap for EX dungeons is around the 450 mark.

444 indeed. My "miss" ratio is most often anywhere between 10-15% (before melding, I was closer to 15%++). And I do try to add damages as much as I can, which means, with an average team, I dps quite a lot. 15% is quite a lot.

Haven't saved any parses of these dungeons, but I'll check again next time I go. Hopefully by then, I'll be above the 450 acc bar and have the misses fixed.
Doesn't change the fact the heavy melding is requiered. I'm sitting on +90 acc melds at the moment (add an extra +9 for the cap?). That means a lot of gils necessary to reach the cap, considering the insane number of failed overmelds one can expect.

The problem is, if someone wants to meld stats that would help not only healing but also damage, like Det, Crit and SpS, they would be left with a large gap from Acc cap (I have 354 accuracy with no melds, and Jesus Christ, I miss a lot), making it near required to have acc melds.

SQEX need to decide about healer dps. Do they endorse healers to DPS? Then add an accuracy buff to Cleric Stance or bring back Accuracy on gear. Do they not endorse? Then remove CS from instanced duties. The way we are now, with a wishy-washy, fence straddling position about healer DPS and accuracy can't go on much longer: I really doubt that, even with a fully melded raid set of grade V accuracy materia, we will be able to achieve accuracy cap when the ilv reachs i260 or i270 (wich won't take long, probably 3.5 or sooner)

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I ask you check your data again just to be sure because what you speak is a contradiction to some of the comments listed above. My gut tells me the cap for EX dungeons is around the 450 mark.

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Yes. I stopped missing entirely in expert dungeons at around 460, so most likely somewhere between 451 and 460.

I'm never looking back btw. Being able to not waste GCDs when DPSing feels great, I just hope they fix our accuracy so we can have some more meaningful customization in the future. If they don't do anything and just expect us to keep melding accuracy it's going to be problematic in 3.4.

Im melding accuracy on some of my new gear while melding crit and det on others for my SCH. I dont really feel the need to go full acc on everything like some people here. I don't really miss that often and i feel either im just lucky with rng or other people are exaggerating due to the whole "you remember negative things easier/more than positive things" so when they see "miss" it sticks in their minds more than the fact that it didnt happen almost every other time

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Originally Posted by Zari

Im melding accuracy on some of my new gear while melding crit and det on others for my SCH. I dont really feel the need to go full acc on everything like some people here. I don't really miss that often and i feel either im just lucky with rng or other people are exaggerating due to the whole "you remember negative things easier/more than positive things" so when they see "miss" it sticks in their minds more than the fact that it didnt happen almost every other time

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I feel the same way. The miss rate at this time isn't something to be up in arms about at this time, but there should be concern for the future about how S-E will be tuning accuracy requirements.

Also a lot of players need to realize that you don't need full melded accuracy to hit the necessary accuracy caps in all content. I recommend three types of materia melding that suits one's playstyle

1) Don't bother with Accuracy melds. For healers that just heal. Meld CRIT, PIE, DET, and SpS in comfortable levels that augment your healing. You'll probably feel it later if you're going to try to DPS, but it's something to consider for the pure-healer types.

2) You want to DPS consistently in casual content (EX dungeons / Midas normal). You'll probably want to meld approximately half your slots with Accuracy. No need for penta melded 220s, so don't break your bank over that. Midas / Lore 230-240s with 50% accuracy materia should be more than sufficient for current casual content.

3) You want to DPS consistently in hardcore content (Savage Midas / EX Trials). You'll probably want to meld EVERYTHING with T5 Accuracy and eat some HQ food to boot. Supposedly caster cap for A8S is in the 600+ range which is completely doable with full T5 Accuracy melds in i230/240 gear and food. Remember you get a free T5 outta Void Ark each week.

I feel the reason S-E went this route for healer DPS is to give healer's the option to choose how they wish to play their healer. You want to DPS more? Meld some Accuracy and eat some food and let it rock! Want to heal more than naught? Focus your melds on healing augmenting melds.

It's not perfect but I kinda feel that was their goal with this patch.

In fact, this reasoning is disturbing. As many suggested, if SE really wanted to leave us a choice, why not add an ACC boost when switching to CS ? Whether you use it or not, it at least you can have it.

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Originally Posted by cgbspender

... if SE really wanted to leave us a choice...

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This is not creating choice. This is removing choice. You've put forward baking the accuracy solution into the baseline act of DPSing. Choice is when you are forced to have "not everything" between or more two mutually exclusive options. Sure you can't have Cleric stance on and off at the same time but everyone can have it and toggle it as appropriate within a given encounter, it's simply a part of moment to moment game play. Just to highlight this it's functionally equivalent to making all healer offensive abilities have natively higher hit, since you don't use them outside cleric stance anyway.

It's fine to dislike trade offs. It's fine dislike gearing complexity. It's fine to dislike having to make choices. It's good to have a sceptical eye towards tuning. It's dishonest to pretend that baking functionality into baseline abilities is the same as having choices about the functionality just because the ability is modal.

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Originally Posted by HPDelron

In current conditions healers have baseline damage output X, accuracy is a powerful way to increase that baseline. It also offers a trade off in that it does not also increase their primary role (healing).

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Yes, it does. SE seeing healer's DPS as a problem. We are required to use ACC materia in order to keep X damage flat. But we have to understand where this trade off is coming from. New dungeons are meant to be harder than previous one. If DPS gear in the next update will have 20 more ACC, that means, that's how much healers are going to lose their hit chance. It's basically an overall nerf to all healer DPS when it's already small. Healers primal job is to heal and DPS as secondly. But because our DPS is 2ndly, we do lower damage and spent extra MP, that's the concequences. Now we need to slot ACC in almost all gear just to be able to perform regular X damage like before.