Rest in peace War dps

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dante_V

So why do you need to stay in tank stance longer as drk and do the 1-2-3 combo over and over?
I main the class and have not had to do this at all in any duty so far. In fact the increase in vit has allowed me to stay out of tanks stance longer rotating cooldowns. DRK imo is by far the easiest tank to hold aggro with so long as you can maintain a basic supply of MP. the class seems exactly the same to me outside of a bit more tp up time and the proportional dps cut across the board. But mechanically ive been playing it exactly the same with no issue.

---

That was an intentional exageration, I should probably stress that out, a poor choice of words. I haven't really played DRK much (since patch came out tuesday and it's just Thursday) but I was basing myself on comments i've been reading across various topics/forums and my overall understanding of the class. Holding emnity is not really an issue in Tank stance but problems will inevitably arise as, overall, tanks are generating less enmity in tank stance when compared to 3.1 due to the damage nerf.

Tell me this, you have zero problems staying out of tank stance with good DPS against bosses? I'm not even including trash as unleash spam will most likely keep aggro on you even without grit. I'm talking about a 1400+ DPS DRG (with a 2k+ Opener) breathing down your neck as he unleashes a dozen oGCDs on your target during his opener? It's still all the same? Do you find yourself using Blood Weapon and DA just as much in that situation? At least WAR has Uchained + Berserk. DRK has great sustained emnity but very little in the way of burst emnity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dante_V

snip

---

Have you done it in any 8mans? Did you have shadewalker? How long were you staying out of stance? How many PS did you open with? Impossible to know what your vague post means without knowing how you play to begin with.

No one is saying you need to spam 123 and never drop stance. For DRK using the combo more than once or twice per encounter feels like too much.

You deal far less damage now out of stance in relation to your dps so if you're staying out of stance for any considerable period of time (which i find doubtful considering how hard things hit, unless yiur swapping) they will gain on you noticeably faster if your enmity is riding on a pure dps rotation with no PS. Its not even DPS either. Healers in particular are generating a shit ton of enmity with all the aoe healing needed in fights like sephex where everyone is getting hit like a bus the entire time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syzygian

No one is saying you need to spam 123 and never drop stance.

---

I did say it but, like I mentioned, that was a poor choice of words. I would like to re-stress my point in case that badly worded comment buries the point.

The nerf probably ended up hitting DRK and PLD way harder than it did WAR, thanks to the fact that WAR can generate an insane amount of burst enmity (allowing them to play almost identical to how they did in 3.1). PLD and DRK, on the other hand, end up suffering more in pronlonged fights as their choices are much more limited due to their reduced enmity generation. Heck, I think that DRK might have gotten the bigger shaft as the lower enmity generation means more stance dancing is required (more MP) and every Syphon Strike they can't use is a long term DPS loss (and blood weapon usage being less reliable).

I would have rather seen upward adjustments rather than a global nerf but people are so focus on WAR hate that they seem to fail to notice that things are even worse for them

I was really excited about 3.2 changing vit to the new tank dps calculation but i had no idea it was gonna rip our dps appart and cause emnity generation to be such a pain. There isn't really much to say except i sure hope they fix this somehow.

Me personally, I just want to see souleater actually heal a decent amount, blood bath not be laughable when cross classed, and a better vit/str = attack power ratio.

Obligatory for every Warrior Thread
http://i.imgur.com/bcxq3kQ.jpg
I can see them going through their fellcleave screenshot folders right now

Our DPS isn't dead at all. Yeah we lost some numbers while running all Str but it's only shittier with 210 gear. I'm still able to pull off 1000 DPS+ with the 220 gear. I may not have hit another 11k fell cleave with the new changes, but I can still crit for 9000+ which I'm sure with all 240 gear is possible to go back to hitting with those 10k fell cleaves, and if really lucky 11k. Enmity ain't an issue, DPS ain't an issue. People just don't like change. If you honestly NEEDED Str acc to keep aggro before 3.2 you obviously just weren't meant to tank and need to roll another job cause you're bad. While I miss all str as well, we're tanks. If your DPS in your group aren't fulfilling their duties and putting out high damage, then give 'em the boot. (Talking statics obviously). But we are not in any terrible position, we're still in a good one.

it's a tank dps nerf, so if the war is hit other tank is hit too.
but it's not harsh and the war still dps a lot.
i don't get the complain, exept for the sake of complaning

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chthonian

snip

---

Yeah, but then what happens when we get to content scaled higher, such as higher HP scales?

WAR ends up doing pathetic dps once again. You forget that everyone will be gearing up and that SE will design content accordingly. Tank damage is permanently behind the curve now and will only be somewhat decent in the short time right before higher scaled content comes out, then it's back to square one again. And tanks will always be well behind where they were before in damage contribution now, while HP of bosses will go higher and higher.

SE didn't make this change thinking "We only want to temporarily reduce tank damage until they get better gear, then they'll be back to where they were."

They made the change to permanently and considerably reduce tank damage for content to come. "We want to change how tanking is seen from here on out." This was not a change designed to only apply to this patch's early days, it was a change designed to keep tanks behind the curve and reduce their damage contribution permanently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

It's almost like you weren't supposed to be tanking in a dps stance. Le Gasp!

---

i can not like this comment enough.

Hmm I like that vit/str swap now. I mean if our dps matter that much why not make all classes one. I agree we should do some damage but not on the same level as the lowest dps class. We're tanks to tank not deal insane damage. Utility and tanking should be our number one goal.

Yeah but in the end we're not there to deal massive damage. As long as we're keeping hate, and popping our CD's when we have to, our job is done. Str and Vit share what the same 0.45? I've been perfectly fine wearing a crafted Str acc, I still have my allocation points in Str. So just work on your AP getting higher. We're never going to go back to what we once were and it's for a reason. Complaining about a change that was more efficient for our job isn't going to change SE's mind. Even if we're OT's we still do above 1k DPS. If you MT in your group learn the fights, learn when to stance dance and go from there til you can optimize in order to get better DPS. We may not be able to hit 1200 - 1400 anymore, but we still do better damage than the other tanks. So take it with a grain of salt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chthonian

snip

---

Some people, like myself, enjoy pushing ourselves to better than "good enough". We were rewarded in playing above and beyond the requirements with higher dps, i.e. faster runs and everyone winning from it. With that being impossible now, I can at least speak for myself in that tanking bores me now.

SE's "reason" for this change makes no sense at all to me. It's almost as if they want to punish people who put more effort into playing skillfully. Because I was getting the job done well before with STR and then some, and benefiting my groups with my efforts far more than just limiting myself to only being concerned with eating damage would have done. Now I feel as if SE has forced all tanks to lower their standards and settle for excessive Vit and less damage, whether we want to contribute more or not.

my fell cleaves damage went down by 25% more or less :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adire

Some people, like myself, enjoy pushing ourselves to better than "good enough". We were rewarded in playing above and beyond the requirements with higher dps, i.e. faster runs and everyone winning from it. With that being impossible now, I can at least speak for myself in that tanking bores me now.

---

Nothing's stopping you from pushing to be better. Your ceiling got moved, not your floor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

Nothing's stopping you from pushing to be better. Your ceiling got moved, not your floor.

---

A flat damage nerf is stopping me from pushing to be better, because damage is so pathetic now that I've lost motivation to push for such marginal improvement compared to before. It's an insult to effort.

What can I do with all this extra vit now? Nothing at all. I can be a good tank, but that's it now. I can't be a good tank and balance it with good damage anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adire

A flat damage nerf is stopping me from pushing to be better, because damage is so pathetic now that I've lost motivation to push for such marginal improvement compared to before. It's an insult to effort.

What can I do with all this extra vit now? Nothing at all. I can be a good tank, but that's it now. I can't be a good tank and balance it with good damage anymore.

---

If you believe the damage is pathetic try helping a group meet any of the new DPS checks without your outgoing damage. It won't happen.

A loss of motivation is your fault, nobody else's. If you're too good to push your tank DPS now that's fine, but that's your choice and nobody is responsible for it.

And the incoming tank damage has been ramped up so that stuff hits like a bus now and you need almost all of that extra VIT.

These are all things people have been going over in the forums and reddit for 2 weeks now, just get over it and adapt. That's your job more than anything else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syzygian

....

---

I don't recall blaming anyone else for it?

But it's not my fault either. Am I supposed to force myself to like these changes? I don't know about you, but I can't just force motivation upon myself.

But no worries, I will adapt. I'll adapt by not tanking anymore since the new standards bore me. I've never enjoyed being just a meatshield in games. Prior to these changes, tanks could be more than that. Now they can't, and alas, I grow bored with it in this game too.

Idk im still out dpsing the dps in duty finder / party finder. Just cant carry them as hard which im ok with. Cuz when dps checks get failed everyone starts trying to figure out which dps is the weak link. kinda funny how it all works out in the end.

I feel like people are exaggerating the decrease in WAR's self healing potency, before the patch when I used Berserk + Equilibrium, I could crit for about 8.9k in a group, but now, even though my item level has gone up by a few levels, I can crit for over 10k with Equilibrium while alone. Not that surprising because attack power now scales with vitality.

Additionally, my DPS doesn't feel much lower than before not that I much care, I'm still going to keep trying to squeeze out whatever DPS I can, at least I can do it more safely now that I have more HP and defensive stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jollyy5

I feel like people are exaggerating the decrease in WAR's self healing potency

---

if you were in all vit gear to begin with then your damage would actually increase and you wouldn't notice the potencies. 20% less damage is still very noticeable (especially if you were all strength). I noticed the first time I did a crit fell cleave and equilibrium when i first touched warrior this patch that things were definitely changed. The self heal nerfs are not an exaggeration. Especially with blood bath + berserk being less potent than before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adire

snip.

---

That's fine, but it's important to stress that it isn't the fault of balance being off. Tanks were able to do ridiculous damage before. Now they're more or less in line with what they should do so they aren't ridiculous carries. If you don't enjoy tanking as it is, no one will hold it against you, but it's not because there's something wrong with the role. It's just not the role for you.

I object to the implication that tanks who continue tanking are just meat shields, though. You direct positioning, have to have good dungeon knowledge, and have to know how to coordinate with the team. We don't have as many class centric mechanics as DPS, sure, but we deal with loads of environmental and team-centric mechanics.

Then the objective is: if they don't become again the war into Warrior (the max expresion of DAMAGE with his great two handed and enormous axe, then stop playing everybody wars, I can't understand because they change the damage, they must make war stronger again, literaly a two handed War Axe would do more damage as always little swords, daggers, bullets, fists, etc.

And put elemental resistances/weaks, put elemental materia into your weapon to do elemental damage and make enemies with resistances and vulnerabilities, not dps boring checks (and after nerf people and their predilect classes) make bosses as the strat start before the dungeon, chose the wepons correctly, even classes! (against dragon a Lance will be more effective as daggers for example) make bosses with behaviour!

We are in 2016! and pay 10 eu/dolars or a bit more for playing this game, so SE less nerfs and improve the game with real new and original ideas and content!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gameplayzero

if you were in all vit gear to begin with then your damage would actually increase

---

Hm! I was always in all Vit, and I noticed a slight decrease in damage and a significant decrease in healing. I wonder if it's the numbers or my perceptions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adire

Some people, like myself, enjoy pushing ourselves to better than "good enough". We were rewarded in playing above and beyond the requirements with higher dps, i.e. faster runs and everyone winning from it. With that being impossible now, I can at least speak for myself in that tanking bores me now.

---

So what about the people that raided for Gordian gear as a STR tank, pushing content and getting those 210 pieces that never mattered? The fending pieces that fell on the floor week after week, yeah what a GREAT reward that was. I always hated carrying bad DPS because my role was never meant to beat them in damage even now we have people in ilvl 210+ that are still doing 500 DPS tanks can still do more than them.

As for faster runs that falls upon your DPS my Paladin friend tanking while my friend and I were a drg ilvl 211 and monk ilvl 217 we did Antitower in 15ish minutes we were both pulling over 1.2k+ on boss fights trash didn't take that long as we had a Sch DPSing. The good tanks are going to still tank and push content while the bad tanks are going to sit back and never push themselves as it always has been. Playing skillfully is still a thing in this game for tanks the ceiling is still high you just need to know how to adapt and play with the new meta.

Maybe tanking has different views for everyone which I understand, for myself however i'm going to keep tanking it's a shame you hung up your sword/shield/axe/greatsword, but that's why we play an MMO to enjoy ourselves rather than be something we don't enjoy.

I don't know but I think most geared WARs will echo the fact that Berserked Equilbrium was critting for 15k+ and Fell Cleave was hitting for 9k+ in raiding set-ups.

Personally, I'm fine with the adjustment. I can still pull 1k+ DPS in fights with higher deliverance up-time like Sephirot EX so whatever. My Fell Cleaves are now hitting for 8k instead of 9k. Whatever. I'm still contributing a large chuck of raid DPS while fulfilling my role as a tank so it doesn't feel like the sky is falling. WARs pulling very good DPS is hardly impossible. I still beat bad DPS players easily.

Warrior tanking has lost what made it fun in the first place. Tanking is just so boring now... there's not much reason to try and push yourself since the gains are so incredibly minor, it's better to just take 5 DPS instead of 2 tanks into content.

Glad I quit tanking though, Changes are not fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian_

Personally, I'm fine with the adjustment. I can still pull 1k+ DPS in fights with higher deliverance up-time like Sephirot EX so whatever. My Fell Cleaves are now hitting for 8k instead of 9k.

---

Yeah im kinda suprised it only took approx 10 ilevels to hit about same numbers than pre-patch, i was betting we would need to wait ilvl230+ so see them again but lucily i was wrong. Gameplay vise nothing has really changed except enmity, outside of tank stance enmity matters more due dmg nerf and it requires better monitoring than before(unless you have NiN), funny thing is that this raised skillcap for PLD and DRK as STR is not carrying you anymore while WAR actually took smaller hit as their enmity combo is also their best DPS combo.

I would like to thank all the tank in General that have quitted and when back to dps I am really Glad you guys did

Because people like me a true tank to the bone with tank blood running throught my veins will finally able to find a spot in raiding again

Come back for 3.2, tank forums still salting like mad.

Don't change, I love you guys (I'm now one of you).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Janhyua

Because people like me a true tank to the bone with tank blood running throught my veins will finally able to find a spot in raiding again

---

It sounds to me like you don\\'t understand what tanking is. I\\'m guessing there\\'s a reason raid groups passed you over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RapBreon

Come back for 3.2, tank forums still salting like mad.

Don\\'t change, I love you guys (I\\'m now one of you).

---

It\\'s like Syzygian came in and just threw salted earth all over the forums. ;D

http://m.imgur.com/HQSMWsp

The salt is comedic. Still, I have to respect the players who keep tanking in spite of the damage loss.

Not much damage loss with new gear. I'm almost where I was in 3.1 as a WAR at Ilvl 219 in Seph EX as OT.

As much as I'd like to take credit for all the Salted Earth, I'd argue that the Fractured state of the tanking meta is the true Scourge of these forums, having turned them into a full blown Circle of Scorn.

This thread is hilarious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syzygian

As much as I'd like to take credit for all the Salted Earth, I'd argue that the Fractured state of the tanking meta is the true Scourge of these forums, having turned them into a full blown Circle of Scorn.

This thread is hilarious.

---

Man you just Carve and Spit these puns all over the place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syzygian

As much as I'd like to take credit for all the Salted Earth, I'd argue that the Fractured state of the tanking meta is the true Scourge of these forums, having turned them into a full blown Circle of Scorn.

This thread is hilarious.

---

I'll act in reprisal to your comment saying that I am Infuriated by your puns. I think it's a real low blow for you to resort to that, and you provoked me into replying. I'm not sure if you have any awareness in what you have done, because you didnt have the foresight. What I'm saying might cause delirium, but as you can see, in an act of defiance, I unleashed my vengance through puns. I doubt I covered everything, but writing this was just so overpowering to my darkside

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I'll act in reprisal to your comment saying that I am Infuriated by your puns. I think it's a real low blow for you to resort to that, and you provoked me into replying. I'm not sure if you have any awareness in what you have done, because you didnt have the foresight. What I'm saying might cause delirium, but as you can see, in an act of defiance, I unleashed my vengance through puns. I doubt I covered everything, but writing this was just so overwhelming.

---

Replace overwhelming with overpowering and you'll be all set.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keldion

http://m.imgur.com/HQSMWsp

The salt is comedic. Still, I have to respect the players who keep tanking in spite of the damage loss.

---

You mean people who understand that tanking encompasses all aspects of its play, not just the 'lol topped meters guys' part? :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Replace overwhelming with overpowering and you'll be all set.

---

Haha oops, haven't played WAR in a while

Super dedicated tanks are presently approaching 1,000 AP. When they reach full 230 slotting, they're going to be doing more dps than when they were strength tanks. The nerf was pointless, the old complaints about tanks doing too much damage are going to reappear. Bad bards are going to get sweaty again, reeeeeal soon.