The Mentoring Requirements... *Rant Style*

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Sure, it's not mandatory, but anyone who has three level 60 jobs, has participated in over 1000 dungeons, and has anywhere near their 300 commendations almost certainly has cross-class skills. I'd strongly argue that anyone who managed to fulfill those requirements would not have been able to do so without them, since they'd be kicked off the team more often than not.

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hu? i have done over 3700 dungeons and i have never seen someone being kicked because of a lack of cross-skills. not even the WAR tank in ultima hm without provoke was being kicked xD

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Originally Posted by Tint

hu? i have done over 3700 dungeons and i have never seen someone being kicked because of a lack of cross-skills. not even the WAR tank in ultima hm without provoke was being kicked xD

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People WILL complain if you lack certain cross class skills. It's expected for every healer and SMN to have Swiftcast so that they can insta rez people.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

People WILL complain if you lack certain cross class skills. It's expected for every healer and SMN to have Swiftcast so that they can insta rez people.

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Uh, yeah, I've seen players in a level 60 duty wearing no job stone roleplaying an Archer, or the person who was an in-character Ice Mage in Neverreap. Even they didn't get kicked. Or the full Alliance yesterday in Void Ark who queued as a party without any job stones. Nobody got kicked. How you have time to focus on another player's actions, especially watching for something like Internal Release popping up on a Dragoon while doing your own thing is a bit wild. If you're watching that closely just to nitpick during regular dungeons I'd check yourself.

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Originally Posted by Odett

pls don't be a mentor

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Funny, Im hoping you never become one, would be very bad for the game.

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Originally Posted by Tint

hu? i have done over 3700 dungeons and i have never seen someone being kicked because of a lack of cross-skills. not even the WAR tank in ultima hm without provoke was being kicked xD

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That was because Ultilma farming was before kicking was even in the game...

But yes, I've seen and kicked people for not having the right cross class skills. Not just because they don't have them, mind you, but their attitude towards them ("I don't need Swiftcast in Titan EX, even though my fairy is dead and I can't find time to resummon it")

As far as the newbie network chat channel goes, the idea is of course that after 40 hours into the game, any new player would (and should) by then have a solid grasp of basics of their given class/job(s), and more importantly, have made friends and connections with other players. From there, the natural flow would be to join an LS or an FC if not already in one. The network chat is designed as a default direct line between new players and mentors, but not meant to be permanent or replace linkshells or the like.

Also, there's of course always going to be a way to game the system, which isn't cool, yes, but it speaks in volumes of a "mentor" who'd take up the mantle through less-than-wholesome means.

Consider it a morality check: are you in it to help uplift new players and possibly cultivate a new wave of skilled players that you know can be relied upon thanks to your positive influence? Or do you just want compensation for a new type of grind? I'll take the former over the latter any day.

Lastly, the requirements for DoW/DoM are very good in the sense that while knowing one job/role very well is a good thing for playing, knowing all roles is very good for teaching purposes, and no one can really say otherwise. Being well versed across multiple roles in a game you've played for a long time isn't a punishment or a restriction. It's qualifying experience.

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Originally Posted by Mindylou

Funny, Im hoping you never become one, would be very bad for the game.

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Just out of curiosity, why? Because of his comedic sentence and opinion that a Healer should use all of their abilities?

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Originally Posted by DragonHunterG

For the healer class you need at level 60, can't you just level SMN? Once you're level 60 SMN, you're automatically level 60 SCH. Unless I'm missing something, you don't have to heal at all in order to do that.

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Honestly, I was thinking about this too. I wonder if when ever a mentor signs up, they have to select which roles they're going to use as their requirements. For example, if you have a WAR, SMN, and SCH, you can select all three which would be sufficient. However, if you've NEVER played SCH it probably shouldn't count. So if they make it so you can select either SMN or SCH (but not both) that would eliminate that problem. But that might be too much work, so I doubt any of this would happen.

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

Just out of curiosity, why? Because of his comedic sentence and opinion that a Healer should use all of their abilities?

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I am pretty sure the point of the mentorship program is for people who play at subpar levels teach new players how to continue this trend.

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

Just out of curiosity, why? Because of his comedic sentence and opinion that a Healer should use all of their abilities?

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Whats funny is Odett was spot on with her comment too. I have healed with that person recently...

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I am pretty sure the point of the mentorship program is for people who play at subpar levels teach new players how to continue this trend.

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Or you can make a difference yourself.

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Originally Posted by Mindylou

Funny, Im hoping you never become one, would be very bad for the game.

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We don't need any mentors telling new players to half-ass it in a group with other people.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

We don't need any mentors telling new players to half-ass it in a group with other people.

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Is this going to be the XIV equivalent of "Please don't have kids"?

There are some ppl(like myself) that were happy to see this announcement because, as Yoshi-P said, major reward is feeling that you helped someone, being a long-time buddy or someone you just met.
Helping these ppl develop and answering questions is something i really enjoy into.

I also agree on very little to no rewards, as this would cause the mentor system to be flooded with ppl just doing that for the experience bonus or in-game rewards.

I have all 2.0/3.0 content cleared, pretty much im more than capable of helping someone develop. But i do think the system could be done based on request(needs approval to become mentor) and not be limited to have all 3 job roles as a requirement. I honestly consider myself a very experienced Dragoon and Tank, but im not much of a healer. now im leveling one on DF to 60 just for the sole purpose of unlocking this feature.

I have good intentions on my mind, and im pretty sure SQEX has it too, but...if i get matched to teach someone to heal, it will be a pain in the ass =(. We needed to have a better development on that, like you could start as a job mentor, if you have all DoW on 60 then you icon changes and youre a DoW Mentor, if both DoW and DoM are 60 then you reach the highest tier, ("Warrior of light mentor")? so we could spot who would be the best person to help me advance trough this game.

The lv 60 requirement on this suggestion would not be the sole requirement, like for example.....a Lv 60 DRG Mentor needs to have A1-A4S cleared as dragoon, X Comendations(X being definitely more than 300), no reports of bad behaviour on the last 6 months, and whatever other requirement that could be placed in here. Achieving those, you unlock DRG Mentor, but if you wanted to go further(for example, DoW Mentor), you would need to achieve these hypothetical requirements with every single DoW job. and so on.
Also, this status would have to reset at each expansion(or major patch) so ppl can adjust.

If you consider running dungeons/trials only as a good standard for someone to become a mentor, then you're definitely doing it wrong.

(SCH afk healing with fairy)(DPS using 123 combos repeatedly)(Tanks not popping any CDs).

with dungeon only requirements, youre literally saying that these kind of ppl can become mentors. I would look into that =/.


Sorry for the long Post, have a good one everyone.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Or you can make a difference yourself.

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(Psst...she was being sarcastic)

yeah, i will not become a mentor because i only know how to play a healer. but i have just a basic understandment of tanking and i am not into dps classes at all xD i have to gain 8 lvl on my dragoon to hit mentor requirements, but nah...

also i don't think this will work well if you don't play the tank by yourself. i often try to explain some boss mechanics to new people. but the tank runs ahed and pulling the boss before i can type a single sentence. and also what is the difference between explaining now the basics for new people and explaining them as a mentor? most people simply don't want someone who is saying them "you are doing it all wrong, start listening, I will teach you" - even with the friendliest words.

also another huge problem i have is the duty finder and the language filter - english is not my first language. i need a while to type in english especially if i don't know how to say something specific and have to find a workaround to say it in other words xD i can't explain well in english. and i don't speak french at all. i can explain in german, no problem, but even if i search with just german language activated i will get paired with english and french speakers. will they fix this for mentor roulette?

i hope this is just a first step to build the basics and they introduce class-mentoring for new lvl 60 players with super harsh mentor requirements later. yeah... hope... xD

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Originally Posted by Tint

most people simply don't want someone who is saying them "you are doing it all wrong, start listening, I will teach you" - even with the friendliest words

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Well, presumably the newbies signing up to be mentored are looking for people to teach them, so that shouldn't be a problem. ^^

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Or you can make a difference yourself.

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Heh, not sure if you got my joke?

this thread and all the comments on it are the reason why I dont think and actually firmly believe the mentor system is going to be a pandora box, once open we wont be able to come back and it will be chaos very fast....

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Heh, not sure if you got my joke?

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Dry text usually gets lost in translation on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Shyngo

The lv 60 requirement on this suggestion would not be the sole requirement, like for example.....a Lv 60 DRG Mentor needs to have A1-A4S cleared as dragoon, X Comendations(X being definitely more than 300), no reports of bad behaviour on the last 6 months, and whatever other requirement that could be placed in here. Achieving those, you unlock DRG Mentor, but if you wanted to go further(for example, DoW Mentor), you would need to achieve these hypothetical requirements with every single DoW job. and so on.

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Having a4s clears as a requirement probably would limit the number of available mentors greatly, and on smaller servers that may be a problem. Especially since most new characters are created on smaller servers (since big ones tend to be locked ).

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Originally Posted by Toguro

I'm a special snowflake because I wish not to spend almost a year or 16hrs a day and level 2 jobs.

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Your a special snowflake if you think it's going to take you almost a year to level 2 jobs to 60.

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Originally Posted by DBthaONE

Having a4s clears as a requirement probably would limit the number of available mentors greatly, and on smaller servers that may be a problem. Especially since most new characters are created on smaller servers (since big ones tend to be locked ).

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whats the point of being a mentor if youre not qualified for it? then it just falls down to what i described on the last paragraph.

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Originally Posted by Shyngo

whats the point of being a mentor if youre not qualified for it? then it just falls down to what i described on the last paragraph.

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Let's add more exclusionary and obscure requirements that only a few players meet. You also need to have two complete Anima weapons!

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

Let's add more exclusionary and obscure requirements that only a few players meet. You also need to have two complete Anima weapons!

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I'm not sure what's really "obscure" about needing to have a job of each role at level 60, to complete a certain number of instances, and to receive a certain number of commendations. It all seems pretty straightforward.

The system is exclusionary by design though. They don't want everyone mentoring, as not everyone has the sort of experience they're hoping to impart to newer players about the scope of the game. A mentor that's only really played one role is going to have a narrow view of party dynamics in most cases (not all, but SE needs to build the system for the common player). The 1000 instances/300 commendations requirements will mean that the average Mentor will also have a breadth of experience with a wide range of content, and also that they probably play regularly, which makes them more useful to newer players.

This should, in general, make the system more useful for players than the FFXI equivalent was (which had relatively lax requirements, as far as I remember—you certainly didn't need to have multiple jobs at maximum level or anything of the sort).

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

Let's add more exclusionary and obscure requirements that only a few players meet. You also need to have two complete Anima weapons!

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Tbh, I think the requirements should be higher. Look at the OP for example, he clearly doesn't understand the other roles in more than the most basic sense, he might be able to tell someone a few things, but shouldn't be "Mentoring" people. Look at the poster after, she should be looking for a mentor, not thinking she could be one.

Edit: I also think any content you are mentoring people in, you should have cleared a certain number of times. Just because you have cleared Ruda HM a bunch of times doesn't mean you should be giving someone the ins and outs of VEX which you have barely cleared once.

But there are other things I want for the system too, tools I don't think we will get. Things like:

-A side by side comparison chart, where you can ask the person to do a rotation they like, then you can show them a different one, and they can look at the difference, possibly seeing why one would be better, rather than just being told.

-The ability to see all moves used, in simple point form so you can review and go over them.

-The ability to mirror the trainees gear and stats, so you can work side by side with them, at their level.

-The ability to stop a fight so you can explain the next phase, and why you do or do not do things, or to repeat a phase.

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Originally Posted by Shyngo

whats the point of being a mentor if youre not qualified for it? then it just falls down to what i described on the last paragraph.

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I don't know how you figure not clearing A4S mean you only AFK heal in dungeons. Maybe I missed how you got from point A to point Q.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

Snip.

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I was referring to the fact that he said all mentors should be required to clear A4S. I'm fine with the other qualifications. Notice my mocking tone. Check context before you go on a spiel next time. As a matter of fact I had a giant post on the fourth page detailing why I supported the requirements and the rationale behind them.

I actually do think the requirements may need to be tuned up a bit more, to be honest. I agree completely with you, Whiteroom.

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

I was referring to the fact that he said all mentors should be required to clear A4S. I'm fine with the other qualifications. Notice my mocking tone. Check context before you go on a spiel next time.

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My fault. I didn't read his post because it was horribly formatted and it hurt my eyes. If that was the part you were responding to, though, you probably should have quoted that part.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

My fault. I didn't read his post because it was horribly formatted and it hurt my eyes. If that was the part you were responding to, though, you probably should have quoted that part.

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No harm no foul. I just dislike looking like a stooge lol. Your post was well-put, I concur with your feelings on the subject.

On the subject of requiring AS4 clears to become a Mentor...that would probably end up being very problematic.

For one, it would drastically reduce the number of available mentors (far more than the supposedly stringent requirements that will be in place in 3.2). But more importantly, it would mean that the only available mentors likely catered to a very specific, progression-oriented mindset, as current Savage is far more difficult than anything the game's ever seen. Not all players like that mentality, though, and it wouldn't be very useful to most new players.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

On the subject of requiring AS4 clears to become a Mentor...that would probably end up being very problematic.

For one, it would drastically reduce the number of available mentors (far more than the supposedly stringent requirements that will be in place in 3.2). But more importantly, it would mean that the only available mentors likely catered to a very specific, progression-oriented mindset, as current Savage is far more difficult than anything the game's ever seen. Not all players like that mentality, though, and it wouldn't be very useful to most new players.

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Also, it would mean they would have to adjust the mentor qualifications with the drop of each new raid. And then wait for people to clear, before there are any new mentors. Where if they simply made it so that you had to clear content, say 20-30 times before you could mentor that specific content, it grows with the game.

It probably should be hours played a certain job that grants you the ability to mentor for that particular job, or maybe number of instances when playing a specific job. A lot of hours, but I haven't decided how many.

The current requirements suck because it's easy to get 300 comms and three jobs to 60. You don't even have to know how to use a job to get it to 60. Level should not be a requirement in and of itself. The 1000 instances is an ok-ish requirement on the face of it, but honestly, across the 15 or so jobs you could have gotten your way to that and still not be an expert at a particular job.

As a career healer I *could* level a tank and dps to 60 running fates and really not doing much with them, but why should I have to do that to mentor as a healer? They clearly have not given mentoring enough thought. Too many of their decisions are rather easy to pick apart as being flawed so it makes me wonder just what goes on in meetings sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Where if they simply made it so that you had to clear content, say 20-30 times before you could mentor that specific content, it grows with the game.

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The only issue with this is that it dramatically reduces the usability of the Mentor Roulette. One of the things the Mentor Roulette prioritizes is groups in need: either folks needing to clear something for the first time or groups that have lost members—if you need to clear a particular piece of content X number of times (where X is greater than 1, anyway—presumably, it won't put you in something you haven't cleared yourself) to be eligible for it, it reduces the number of mentors available that can fill the party slots for those groups. That would, I think, end up running counter to one of the main functions of the system. It's not just about helping people out, it's also about facilitating matchmaking for Duty Finder.

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Originally Posted by AeraLure

As a career healer I *could* level a tank and dps to 60 running fates and really not doing much with them, but why should I have to do that to mentor as a healer? They clearly have not given mentoring enough thought. Too many of their decisions are rather easy to pick apart as being flawed so it makes me wonder just what goes on in meetings sometimes.

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I don't think its meant to be a 100% solution to weeding out bad mentors, however, it is a limiter. You will never solve the issue of bad mentors. Just because someone has cleared a lot as well doesn't mean that they are good teachers either. It's not meant to be perfect, just not totally without some limits.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

The only issue with this is that it dramatically reduces the usability of the Mentor Roulette. One of the things the Mentor Roulette prioritizes is groups in need: either folks needing to clear something for the first time or groups that have lost members—if you need to clear a particular piece of content X number of times (where X is greater than 1, anyway—presumably, it won't put you in something you haven't cleared yourself) to be eligible for it, it reduces the number of mentors available that can fill the party slots for those groups. That would, I think, end up running counter to one of the main functions of the system. It's not just about helping people out, it's also about facilitating matchmaking for Duty Finder.

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Then the mentor roulette could be more in depth could it not. Not just covering everything ever?

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Originally Posted by AeraLure

It probably should be hours played a certain job that grants you the ability to mentor for that particular job, or maybe number of instances when playing a specific job. A lot of hours, but I haven't decided how many.

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I'd prefer a quest that tests your abilities.

"Use the Duty Finder as a tank role to enter a level 60 dungeon and do not lose enmity once 0/10"
"Use Sea, Stone, Sky as any DPS class and complete Midas Fist of the Son (Savage)"
"Enter Solo Duty where you need to keep every NPC alive during waves of attacks" - includes non-healing things such as ensuring debuffs are gone. DPSing can help speed it up, but isn't necessary to complete. Must be able to manage MP

All of this would take a few hours, anyone could do it, and you'd only get people who have all 3 roles at 60 + be semi-competent with each.

I believe a witty English author once said it best,

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Originally Posted by Douglas Adams

It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made a mentor in a silly online game should on no account be allowed to do the job.

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I might be paraphrasing a bit though.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Then the mentor roulette could be more in depth could it not. Not just covering everything ever?

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I'm not sure what you mean by the Roulette being more in depth. Could you elaborate?

I'll just be honest. If I was a noob, I would just want to be told the best rotation period straight forward from the get go. Someone who has the mentality it's just a game do whatever you want including be an Ice Mage is not fit to be a mentor. The requirements should be strict to prevent terrible mentors.