starting to lose interest in this game sadly

Last week was my 1st week not to cap eso after unlocking them. Really hope having something to work for will help Cheer relic 3.XXX

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Originally Posted by Ayerinn

I think the main issue people have with the cash shop is the game is feeling more and more like a F2P game like GW2/Wildstar/etc. that have extensive cosmetic cash shops...the big difference is that FF14 charges a mandatory monthly fee on top of that. I honestly don't care for anything in the cash shop that I can't get in game (namely, the dyes) but the day "item X" appears that I really want to be able to earn in game for my time/sub fee I might get upset as well - in other words, I understand why people are slowly getting more and more angry over the cash shop expansion. Honestly, it is bad enough a subscription game has the audacity to charge for in game storage...it is pretty ridiculous. They even heavily restrict alts to make it a pain in the @#$@ to use them as storage just to rub salt in the wound.

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I understand why people are kind of upset over the cash shop+subscription, but let's try to put things into perspective. 15 dollars a month was what Vanilla WoW charged, and FFXIV has maybe 10% of the subscribers. Are we really paying that much considering this game has a much higher quality in graphics and storyline? Not to mention the cost of developing for PC and PS3/4.

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

To all the people who are saying that all the stuff in the cash shop is meaningless because it's just cosmetic; that is outright selfish. What is important to you might be worth a damn to others.

- If they were to place "Enhanced" Gordian i210 pieces in the cash shop and just reward i200 dyeable gear in Savage, raiders would be furious.
- If they were to place the latest PvP equipment in the cash shop instead of having it available through in game currency, that portion of the playerbase would be furious
- For crafters, items needed for the red scripts crafts or even the gear itself, you get the idea...

There are people whose "endgame" is glamours, or minion collections, or mount collections. Coming here to say "what you like is not that important, it's fine" is nothing but, again, selfish.

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I only need to say this once to all 3 of your pointless arguments

IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

So items that serve an entirely cosmetic purpose and have no actual affect on gameplay beyond you not being able to acquire every pretty item in-game makes you lose interest? Damn. With DLC so rampant in console gaming, I think you need a new hobby if that's the case. ;P

You know how they could make a killing in sales, Put skimpy bikini glamours in the cash shop.

If I've learnt anything people are willing to "Pay to S..."

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

To all the people who are saying that all the stuff in the cash shop is meaningless because it's just cosmetic; that is outright selfish. What is important to you might be worth a damn to others.

- If they were to place "Enhanced" Gordian i210 pieces in the cash shop and just reward i200 dyeable gear in Savage, raiders would be furious.
- If they were to place the latest PvP equipment in the cash shop instead of having it available through in game currency, that portion of the playerbase would be furious
- For crafters, items needed for the red scripts crafts or even the gear itself, you get the idea...

There are people whose "endgame" is glamours, or minion collections, or mount collections. Coming here to say "what you like is not that important, it's fine" is nothing but, again, selfish.

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Except those examples all contribute to someone else receiving an advantage if they choose to spend money. Say I wanted to compete in PVP. I would be forced to either grind for the new gear or purchase them. You wanting glamour pieces offers no such consequences to other players.

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Originally Posted by reillyblair

i dont know what it is but really starting to lose interest in the game and all this cash shop stuff is pushing me further away i get that they wanted to make more money but i would rather pay a higher amount for a sub fairly with everyone else rather then all the rich kids getting the best stuff i know its cosmetic stuff but still

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If something so slight and meaningless can ruin the game for you, then I have to wonder how much you like the game in the first place...

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Because glamour is the true endgame? The only thing that lasts, the things you get PSTs about, it's all glamour. The one and only true form of endgame.

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True hardcore glamourers farm their gears ingame. Not many would use the Scion outfits for their endgame glamour set. They are just not BiS (Best in Style) enough. Cash gear is for casual glamourers who don't have time for gear farming statics.

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Originally Posted by Fencedude

"What if they did something completely unlike what they are doing and that they said they won't do!? Well, What then!?"

Is basically what you are saying

Which is kinda...pointless/

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Sooo....about 60-70% of content announcements for FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Game companies are in business to Make Money, nothing more. If their product Pleases the Public, so much the better.

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Game does not please the public. Public becomes furious. Word of mouth and reviews give game a bad reputation. Game stops generating profit. Failure.
Game pleases public. Public becomes happy. Word of mouth and reviews give game a good reputation. Game continues to generate profit. More development is done for content for game. Success.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Sort of, he listed a handful of other people that need wages too and brought up some other expenses. It doesn't mean they aren't making loads off of our subs already, and that they don't really need the cash shop purchases. They are a cash grab, because yes they are in the business of making money.

They company, in business of making money, will charge as much as they can to make money. The consumers, in the business of saving money, will try to limit how much they can charge us. Consumers do this through consumer feedback (like this thread) and consumer demand. Rolling over and saying they want to make money, so here take it, is very poor consumer behavior and not at all how a capitalist economy works.

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Partly this. They makes enough in subs in order to pay the FFXIV staff. Before the cash shop, they paid their staff while subs were incoming. The number of subs has only increased since that point. The FFXIV team has not substantially increased by any significant margin. That is the thanks of SE's board.

When the cash shop released, they said the funds were going to the European Data Center stuff. After the success of the cash shop, dollar signs appeared in their eyes and they turned it into a cash grab.

This game already has a pay to win feature. If being able to buy more retainers isn't pay to win I don't know what is.

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Originally Posted by Mancub22

This game already has a pay to win feature. If being able to buy more retainers isn't pay to win I don't know what is.

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But at the same time you can have 16 retainers on the same server without paying for a single one. It only need a bit organization, a FC safe and maybe a house.

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Originally Posted by Iskander

Game does not please the public. Public becomes furious. Word of mouth and reviews give game a bad reputation. Game stops generating profit. Failure.
Game pleases public. Public becomes happy. Word of mouth and reviews give game a good reputation. Game continues to generate profit. More development is done for content for game. Success.

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Contrary to popular belief, forums make up a incredibly small fraction of any fanbase. Even if the majority here loathed the Cash Shop with a destructive passion that makes Bahamut blush, it would be a drop in the bucket. The fact Sleipnir has garnered over half a million dollars suggests people don't hate the Cash Shop all that much.

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Partly this. They makes enough in subs in order to pay the FFXIV staff. Before the cash shop, they paid their staff while subs were incoming. The number of subs has only increased since that point. The FFXIV team has not substantially increased by any significant margin. That is the thanks of SE's board.

When the cash shop released, they said the funds were going to the European Data Center stuff. After the success of the cash shop, dollar signs appeared in their eyes and they turned it into a cash grab.

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Or, or! Those funds are now being diverted to another section of the game. It's almost like they need to constantly provide content or upgrades at regular intervals. But even if their motivations were solely profit. Welcome to business 101. A company's primary interest is to make money. Despite that, they appeal their customers by restricting the Cash Shop to vanity items that have no influence on the game. FFXIV is actually an example of precisely how a Cash Shop should be managed. Dislike the color swapped Magitek Chocobos? No worries! You have a black one that functions in the exact same way, and it's free! If someone else wants to pay $12 for it. That's their prerogative.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Or, or! Those funds are now being diverted to another game.

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Most likely scenario tbh.

Between FFVII remaster, FFXV release, KH3, and bankruptcy recovery I'm willing to bet that's where those funds are going.

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Originally Posted by Mancub22

This game already has a pay to win feature. If being able to buy more retainers isn't pay to win I don't know what is.

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Not really. I know plenty of people who get by as crafters while still only have two retainers. You can also play through the entire story quest without ever once leveling a craft and you'll have more than enough gil to keep yourself adequately geared. Extra retainers simply allow for easier omnicrafting or storage if you decide to later level multiple jobs or fancy hoarding gear. Conversely, you could make alt characters and have extra retainers free of charge. It's just inconvenient, which is what you're actually paying extra for: convenience.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

Most likely scenario tbh.

Between FFVII remaster, FFXV release, KH3, and bankruptcy recovery I'm willing to bet that's where those funds are going.

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Oh, no doubt. FFXIV's profits are definitely fueling FFXV, and possibly FFVII. I suspect Disney's stack in Kingdom Hearts keeps that money train going. Nevertheless, that is less a FFXIV problem and more simple business, as frustrating as it can be.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Extra retainers simply allow for easier omnicrafting or storage.

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In practice this is far from the case, ventures have proven to be a very lucrative market allowing players to amass astounding ammounts of gil in a short period of time due to the extra services they receive with multiple retainers.

Retainers make earning gil easier than without them, it can be construed as paying real money for more spending power ingame.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

In practice this is far from the case, ventures have proven to be a very lucrative market allowing players to amass astounding ammounts of gil in a short period of time due to the extra services they receive with multiple retainers.

Retainers make earning gil easier than without them, it can be construed as paying real money for more spending power ingame.

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None of which is a reliable alternative. It also requires a minimum of one hour or upwards of eighteen. You can clear dungeons in less time, which then boils down to who gets luckier. That said, I don't particularly like how they're handling retainers. The fact we have yet to get another one or see them improve the armoire despite a wealth of new items sucks. But I wouldn't associate it with a pay to win model. To me, that is a system that would allow players to buy experience or Relic weapons.

I find the cash shop in this game way less obnoxious than the ones for other games.

Look towards World of WarCraft where everything from pets and mounts to 90 level boosts can be bought and unlike, say, ESO, this game has a sub fee.

Things on the shop here are half the cost of WoW items ($25-30 for a mount there) and many of the outfits could be obtained in game at one time and were free if you'd been there.

Anyway regarding "not having fun", burnout happens. Take a break for a couple months and come back. I juggle four MMOs and swap between the two with subscription models. Nothing wrong with bowing out for a bit and coming back fresh later.

And regarding where the money goes, it likely goes first to shareholders and keeping the servers running. Once the game is self sustaining then funds are put into beefing up the game and start trickling into elsewhere.

Apparently by Op's standards I am rich. I didn't even know. :)

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

None of which is a reliable alternative. It also requires a minimum of one hour or upwards of eighteen.

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Retainers aren't a "Reliable" alertnative to making gil? Could have fooled me.

To curb the Pay to Win argument they could easilly remove the ventures from all but your main two retainers and have them act as just extra storage space. Then you would have a service that gives you no real game changing value, but as they stand they can be a powerfull tool. Hell some ventures can yeild up to 25k an hour for doing nothing all the while being free to do all that "Other stuff" you listed. Why farm just dungeons when you can farm dungeons and send retainers out?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

None of which is a reliable alternative. It also requires a minimum of one hour or upwards of eighteen. You can clear dungeons in less time, which then boils down to who gets luckier. That said, I don't particularly like how they're handling retainers. The fact we have yet to get another one or see them improve the armoire despite a wealth of new items sucks. But I wouldn't associate it with a pay to win model. To me, that is a system that would allow players to buy experience or Relic weapons.

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Selling gil through a gambling system in which you have a chance to win either 1-1,000,000 gil every hour wouldn't be reliable, but it would undeniably be buying gil. Buying gil isn't pay to win in FFXIV (good thing too), but there's no denying that you have the ability to indirectly buy gil from SE and ventures aren't exactly difficult to come by.

I'll concede to you both. That is a fair argument. While I don't necessarily have a huge issue with extra retainers myself, I'll admit it does lead to indirect gil buying. Suppose the biggest problem I have is whenever the devs claim to not have enough memory/server space for additional free storage, yet charge for retainers.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Retainers aren't a "Reliable" alertnative to making gil? Could have fooled me.

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While I do agree that having 3 retainers bringing me back 45 titanium ore an hour makes me more gil, but the real benefit lies in freeing up my gametime to do other things than mine titanium ore. You're Pay 2 Win theory by having more retainers is unsubstantial due to all actual progress items(DoW/DoM/DoH/Dol) are locked behind duties, tomes and scrips; items that cannot be bought with gil; and even when we consider that you can use gil to buy off the MB materials needed to craft for red scrips, you're paying for the convenience and time management, since you can technically go gather these mats yourself. The Pay 2 Win system you are trying to paint retainer ventures into does not exist, especially when you believe 25k an hour is a large sum of gil as per your example.

Even if we were to say that a player who did nothing but craft, had 6 retainers pumping the ventures, and bought/crafted all his own gear and pentamelded it perfectly, spending millions in gil to achieve......i185? This cat can't even get into Thordan Ex, and you've surpassed him in Ilvl by a margin doing roulettes for free. I see no Pay 2 Win scheme here.

There are a lot of things that should make you loose interest in this game, the purely-cosmetic cash shop should not be on the top of the list... >w>

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

That makes no monetary sense unless you are the type of person who spends over a certain threshold on Mog Station stuff a year. What you are asking for essentially means paying for glamour items that you may not even want, over time.

For instance, if the sub fee is raised by $3 a month, that's $36 a year. Depending on what's released throughout the year, one might not even want to buy $36 worth of Mog Station glamour stuff; but if it's lumped into the sub fee, they're paying for it regardless.

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This ^^^^^^

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Originally Posted by Mancub22

This game already has a pay to win feature. If being able to buy more retainers isn't pay to win I don't know what is.

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I totally agree. I know that the extra inventory space and near-worthless items they bring me is instrumental to my victory in Alexander Savage and Thordan EX.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I totally agree. I know that the extra inventory space and near-worthless items they bring me is instrumental to my victory in Alexander Savage and Thordan EX.

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https://media0.giphy.com/media/ajgz23DpDDB4s/200.gif

That one liner gets all my likes xD

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I totally agree. I know that the extra inventory space and near-worthless items they bring me is instrumental to my victory in Alexander Savage and Thordan EX.

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Wait, doesn't that technically mean that Heavensward is pay to win, because it brings you items and skills that are of huge significance to your success in Coil?

Expansions are pay to win confirmed.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I totally agree. I know that the extra inventory space and near-worthless items they bring me is instrumental to my victory in Alexander Savage and Thordan EX.

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But it gives you extra space to win the glamour game D:

(seriously now, they were talking about the fact that more retainers allow for more sales and ventures which may or may not result in huge profits depending on plain dumb luck or steady low profits. You can then use those gils to buy a run in AS3/4/what have you, and that becomes borderline with P2W. Not that I agree, gils being utterly pointless as it is now besides run buying, but that was their point)

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Contrary to popular belief, forums make up a incredibly small fraction of any fanbase. Even if the majority here loathed the Cash Shop with a destructive passion that makes Bahamut blush, it would be a drop in the bucket. The fact Sleipnir has garnered over half a million dollars suggests people don't hate the Cash Shop all that much.

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It may be a small sample size, and is hardly representative of the whole, but that does not equate to all feedback on the forums being negligible or irrelevant. Similarly, feedback given to a cell phone call center is only a small percentage of subscribers, but the feedback is taken very seriously for future planning. (I use this example, because I used to work in a cell phone call center and can attest to it.)

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Or, or! Those funds are now being diverted to another section of the game. It's almost like they need to constantly provide content or upgrades at regular intervals. But even if their motivations were solely profit. Welcome to business 101. A company's primary interest is to make money. Despite that, they appeal their customers by restricting the Cash Shop to vanity items that have no influence on the game. FFXIV is actually an example of precisely how a Cash Shop should be managed. Dislike the color swapped Magitek Chocobos? No worries! You have a black one that functions in the exact same way, and it's free! If someone else wants to pay $12 for it. That's their prerogative.

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Your argument starts off very dismissive and condescending, and there is no need for that. We can all have a mature discussion here.

Firstly, your failing in your duties as a consumer. That is a consumer should be looking after their own self interests, and not defending the interests of a company. This is how we arrive at appropriate market prices of assigning value to products.

Secondly, studies have shown that increased profits don't result in money trickling down. Increased profits just result in the rich executives getting richer. Conversely, decreased profits do trickle down and result in layoffs / budget decreases. It's fair to assume that the increased profits from the cash shop are then not trickling down, and are simply going to executives.

Looking at this document, http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/pdf/ar_2015en.pdf, it appears that SE received increased profits from 2014 to 2015 and saw a decrease in things like salaries from 2014 to 2015. There is a lot on there though, and I am no economics major. I'd be more than interested to see if anyone else has anything enlightening to say from it.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

FFXIV is actually an example of precisely how a Cash Shop should be managed.

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Going back to this point, I disagree. I think that Guild Wars 2 does the best job with their cash shop. Nothing is necessary to play the game (the same here), but you can purchase gems with gold or real money. Conversely, you can use this to buy gold with real money, which helps reduce RMT and provides an appropriate real world market price for gold. People can decide whether farming gold is more important to buy items, or if using real world money is more appropriate for buying items/gold - resulting in a balanced market value of money, time and gold.