This is the end.

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Originally Posted by Biohazard901

No I'll move on to another game.

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So why not start now and be proactive.

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

So why not start now and be proactive.

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Cause what I want to play doesn't come out till 2016

i dont what to tell you other that grow thicker skin and move on, the likehood of you get paired up with them again is slim.

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Originally Posted by Biohazard901

Cause what I want to play doesn't come out till 2016

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Well, to quote you from earlier:

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Originally Posted by Biohazard901

No one cares... Just quit.

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

..

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The same could also be said on the other end; don't use duty finder or random parties if you can't tolerate the idea of being (over) criticized for your playstyle, especially if you're going to retaliate negatively about it. The matter of fact is, duty finder isn't designed for me, but it's not designed for you either, or honestly any particular group of people. It is, quite literally, a tool used to get a quick group together for content. That's what an online game encompasses, you're going to run into a variety of people. And honestly, considering how hostile the OP has gotten toward some of the replies, it's not entirely out of the question that there's more to what we're seeing from his side of the story.

Everyone in the party is expected to perform their role because that's how the game is designed. If the healer isn't healing, people will die. If the tank isn't tanking, adds get loose and people start dying. If DPS isn't doing their job, things die slowly and dips into the tanks and healer's performance. That's why you have a vote kick feature to deal with people who can't perform their role up to snuff or get rid of unsavory characters (granted there outliers who abuses this, but you can GM report it anyway).

Gets a group of rude players. Assumes entire community is toxic.

I am not defending those rude players. Advice can be given politely. And it should also be taken politely. However, you were indeed doing it wrong by playing mage ballad when it's not needed. As a WHM, I never need ballad in a dungeon run, even though I dps a lot on top of healing. That's because there is sufficient down time between trash mobs and bosses that is enough to regen MP. Shroud of Saints between trash mobs is enough to get me from 5% MP to 100%.

Mage ballad is only needed if there are no breaks to get out of combat. This happens in a long boss fight such as trials and raids. That too, you should be smart about using it. For example, in Bismarck Ex, you should play ballad after the two serpents are down, so that the group has sufficient dps.

That said, assuming that the entire community is toxic is silly. Sure I have met my fair share of idiots. But I definitely have met more people that are nice and even more people that don't necessarily go out of their way to help others but are not idiots, which is perfectly fine.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Snip

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Here's the problem with your attempt to turn that around on me. I'm asking people to exercise basic decency and respect to make use of the feature. You're asking that people should be willing to potentially put up with bullying and harassment, no matter how good the advice attached to it is. Kind of hard not to see which is the more reasonable option. Not to mention, there's a wide array of reasons why someone may not be performing adequately (to you standards), and most are not from a willful desire to drag the party down. A lot of it can come down to people not knowing what they don't know. Like the situation I can gather from the OP's statement, they may think what they're doing is beneficial to the group even if it ultimately isn't. That's not an attitude rooted in a selfish desire to screw over people.

The only expectations you can have for a completely random roulette party are the entry requirements for the instance, the rules set by SE (such as no botting), and the roles each player is assigned upon entry (tank, healer, or dps). So yes, it is reasonable to kick a healer who refuses to cast any heals, or a tank who doesn't pick up NPCs, or a damage dealer who's literally doing nothing or almost nothing to help the team. But un-optimized DPS does not mean that player is not fulfilling the role as a damage dealer. And in this situation we're not talking about someone who steadfast refused to participate. We're talking about a bard who's DPS dropped because they used ballad at an inopportune time. Sorry if I don't see that as a crisis that merits the response it got.

At the end of the day, if you see someone doing something you know is wrong, stop assuming they're always doing it out of laziness or a desire the ruin your day. They may just not understand what the right approach is. Just because something is obvious to you doesn't mean it will be to them...and it's very likely there are some concepts that come easy to them that may confuse you. That's the reality of having more information/knowledge in the world than any one person can hope to even come close to understanding. Instead of flying off the handle, take a moment to respectfully point out the flaw and how they might improve. I might also suggest handling it through a whisper, because a lot of people can feel like they're being called out/blamed when these comments come up in party chat. I will concede that you will find some people who do not care about improving. But in over a decade of playing MMOs, I've found that the vast majority are more than happy to take your advice when it's given in a helpful, respectful manner.

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Originally Posted by Boosti

yes it was turned off right after i got the first comment saying "theres no point in having mages bailed on you obviously have no idea how a drk works." When yes i do know how a DRK works.

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Whooooosshhhh

Some DRK told me while I was doing a Fractual run.
[This was before AST buffs/ Alex gear, DRK still had broken skills and he pulled everything during the Chimera part which I didn't know he was going to use that skill.]
to give him a a BJ because I got stunned and I couldn't heal him and I was pushing my limit to heal him. Then lies and says I was AFK and kicked me.
I did report him though.

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Originally Posted by Vrath

I hear League of Legends is even worse.

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I feel like I'm playing league of Legends some of the times but God's no...that game is WOOOOOOOOOOOOORSE!!!
I've been told to get sexually abused, get some sort of illness and some sort of sexual thing on that game over pissed off people...
I just report and ignore them, same as here because people can get ridiculous.
It's funny when they cry and plea for ban lifts in Trib forums hehe.

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

...

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I'm speaking mostly in context of this topic, not in general. In which case, it's not that he's using ballad in an inopportune time, but he is essentially saying "I do what I want", which shows very little regard to his fellow party members. Whether or not they were aggressive against him for using ballad incorrectly (which in itself can be an overexaggeration on his part, because again he has gotten pretty hostile on comments made against him in this very topic) they told him that it was not beneficial; he backlashed poorly, and it eventually got to the point where he got kicked (which would need some fill ins, because this would have had to have gone on for longer than 5 minutes, and OP mentions that he'd stop saying anything, at this point there's a complete cut of communication.)

Speaking in general, there are players who genuinely do not know how to play their class, and some can be receptive of criticism regardless of how it's presented. However, I do not see this being the case on OP's situation. I don't automatically assume they're doing it out of malice, but what they say in response is what's really important (which again, OP responded with "dont tell others how to play" which can give of negative vibes depending on the circumstances) I'm not saying to accept bullying or harassment, but honestly, this is an online environment and you need a thick skin and they should expect to run into those sort of players as much as you are telling me to expect people who are not performing to my standards (which again, you have to be doing something incredibly off like not comboing or spamming a DoT in place of weapon skills/spells)

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

Here's the problem with your attempt to turn that around on me.

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You're taking things out of context. What was mentioned was only a possible scenario. We only have one side of the story, so nobody other than the three other people and the OP know what actually transpired. The person you're quoting was only pointing out inconsistencies with the OP's story. Namely the whole;

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Originally Posted by Boosti

See i have a DRK and i know that when you have Darkside up you don't get the effects of Mage's bailed, but what about when its off. Then Mage's bailed does work. So i tell the Bard maybe she should consider not telling people how to play there jobs.

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Could the OP have told the Bard in a more constructive way? Absolutely. Did he actually do it? By the looks of the post - likely not. The Bard probably found that rude, so they ended up vote kicking him. The way I see it, there is insufficient information to go on. So I and some others probably would have some doubts to the OP's story.

By no means was the person you're quoting trying to promote harassment. Plus, expecting players to at least play decently isn't so much to ask. Healers heal the tank, Tanks hold aggro, and the Damage Dealers deal damage.

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

Gotta love those terrible trolls who completely implode on themselves.

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And, please, don't flame bait other users. You're acting like a troll yourself.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Not many people who are trying to screw their party over will openly admit it. Boosti did give off the impression that he was not going to stop/didn't stop playing ballad though. Not saying he was trying actively to screw the party over, but he was seemingly refusing to listen to their reasonable request judging by what transpired in his own words.

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Boosti already stated a while ago that he DID turn ballad off as asked.

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You can't really say RiceisNice is being toxic

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I did not say any such thing. :confused:

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Also don't see why you think Rice thinks they're "god's gift".

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How you misread what I actually said, I fail to understand... :p

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Snip.

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I am not taking anything out of context. Rice implied that having to put up with possible bullying and harassment is a higher requirement to using roulette. I simply do not agree that is the case, especially when showing common decency and respect towards your fellow players is largely not hard and built on common sense. I so often see people complain about duty roulette being ruined by 'unskilled players'...and yet rarely do they attempt to help improve the situation with constructive, helpful feedback. As I said before, my experience has shown that the vast majority are willing to take advice when it's not constructed in such a manor as to try and make them feel worthless or bad.

I do find it interesting that so many people are harping on the fact that the OP told the other Bard to not tell him how to play his job, but almost nothing with regards that the other Bard labeled them as 'worthless' simply for using ballad at an inopportune time. I don't know about you, but while both Bards' behaviors are far from pristine, I'd say mitigating someone's self worth over a video game is far more problematic and probably instigated the OP's reaction. Yes, we only have his word, but if we're going to build opinions based on his post, it's only fair to include the possibility that what the OP said is fully, or at least partly, the truth. Maybe it's not, but I personally have no reason to believe that there aren't at least some threads of validity in his comments.

But let's also consider another side of what potentially is happening. Yes, the OP is probably not playing optimally (welcome to the vast majority of people in expert roulette...only most of the time their mistakes aren't as obvious). How does labeling them worthless actually help the situation? How does trying to put down any team mate ever actually help? Because I've personally never seen it in any game. The more likely scenario, that person, or the group, will perform worse because everything has become too heated to focus well. Also, did anyone try to explain why what the OP was doing wrong. Such information could have helped them understand the criticism. Things like why the healer and DRK probably don't require the added regen effect of ballad...or how Foe's would be a bigger DPS boost for the healer. Again, going back to my previous statement, I find that the people who yell and scream at the lesser skilled players just want to do that; yell and scream but not actually try and improve things. And it frustrates me, because roulettes can provide a valuable 'in the field' learning experience if they let it be.

Call me a troll if you want, but I'm always going to call out those who act like an ass towards others for the sake of acting like an ass.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

I did not say any such thing.

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Implications, dear sir. Implications. Just because you didn't actually mean it, doesn't mean you weren't implying it;

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

Nowhere do I see an attitude of God's gift to FFXIV coming from his post, however, I DO see Riceisnice [and a couple of other folks] jumping to conclusions.

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In the end though, until the OP posts these screenshots that has the names blotched out, we really can't say much. Interestingly, the OP does have the screenshots to prove it; just that he hasn't posted them.

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Originally Posted by Boosti

I have screens on my ps4 of what they said.

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I don't blame anyone for being skeptical. There were many instances in the Forums were evidence was not provided. This is a little different since the OP actually does have them. Personally, I'll save my judgement till I see the actual chat for myself.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

I am not taking anything out of context.

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Citation please. I'll take another look-see at their post. I'll edit in my thoughts afterwards.

As much as you try to deny it, you actually are taking things out of context. Whether you see it or not is up to you.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

The same could also be said on the other end; don't use duty finder or random parties if you can't tolerate the idea of being (over) criticized for your playstyle, especially if you're going to retaliate negatively about it.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

That's what an online game encompasses, you're going to run into a variety of people. And honestly, considering how hostile the OP has gotten toward some of the replies, it's not entirely out of the question that there's more to what we're seeing from his side of the story

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Everyone in the party is expected to perform their role because that's how the game is designed. If the healer isn't healing, people will die. If the tank isn't tanking, adds get loose and people start dying. If DPS isn't doing their job, things die slowly and dips into the tanks and healer's performance.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

That's why you have a vote kick feature to deal with people who can't perform their role up to snuff or get rid of unsavory characters (granted there outliers who abuses this, but you can GM report it anyway).

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

Call me a troll if you want, but I'm always going to call out those who act like an ass towards others for the sake of acting like an ass.

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Just so you know, calling out other players is considered harassment. Though, I commend you for the act, please leave personal attacks to yourself and click that snazzy report button instead. It doesn't help with the discussion.

This entire thread is stupid.

What was the name of the spell again...?

...Mage's runaway?
...Mage's leftquick?

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Snip

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And as much as you believe you see it, no, I am not taking things out of context. And it goes back to what you just said to T2teddy: 'Implications, dear sir. Implications.'

Rice states bully and harassment are a natural part of an online environment. And he's not wrong. But I take issue to the notion that because it will likely always exist, there's nothing we should consider doing to address it. I see that notion a lot when it comes to the issue of bullying (not simply limited to gaming). You'll see people talk about wanting to make changes to reduce bullying and harassment, and others fire back that you'll never be able to make it go away completely, so why bother? When I see that attitude, I get frustrated. It's not necessarily about making those negative behaviors go away over night, but holding people to a higher standard so as few as possible have to deal with it.

When Rice says that's the natural state of the community and people have to live with it, I see the implication of why bother trying to do anything to make it better. And I wholeheartedly disagree, because I feel that there's a greater potential when we treat each other with basic, common sense decency. And while I can understand having a heard time having respect for someone who's been blatantly disrespectful towards others, I don't think poor performance in a video game is an appropriate criteria to loosing others respect.

I also see this notion from Rice about what is reasonable to expect from players in a roulette group (based on their role), and how that feeds into the vote kick function. Make no mistake, I do think there are many completely valid uses of a vote kick. But I'm seeing some in this thread equate the OP using ballad incorrectly to him stand in a corner picking his nose during a boss fight. I suspect the OP was probably still attacking, but his damage was being reduced by 15% due to using ballad. Let me tell you, there are so many ways people are likely reducing their potential dps 15% or more in expert roulette. Not knowing your rotation perfectly, not being completely focused on the dungeon (because oh god...I got Neverreap for the 5th day in a row kill me now), etc. Hell, there are many ways that players can reduce OTHER party member's potential DPS by 15% or more. I play a scholar. If I get a tank who can't take a hit or reliably avoid AoEs, my potential dps is dropping. Hell, I've had the rare tank the plummets my dps potential to zero on a number of pulls because they literally can't keep themselves alive long enough for me to get dots up in cleric stance. My point is it's silly to crucify one person when you're probably always grouped with at least someone in your party who is not living up to their full potential.

Which brings up another point. The OP was likely only called out because his mistake was obvious. Anyone can look at the party list and see the ballad buff. Was it a case of something less obvious (like an imperfect rotation), I suspect the OP would probably get through it without a word against him, even if the loss in DPS was similar (I suppose baring someone being obsessive with a parser). To go back to my example with my scholar and tanks, most DPS don't care if the tank is taking more damage than he has to, even if it means my DPS contribution gets lost. As long the tank stays alive and holds enmity, it likely won't phase anyone. So again, my point is that it seems silly to me we get caught up over an obvious (and easily correctable, with constructive feedback) mistake, but ignore everything else.

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

LOL...

Aww, you tried.

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Just stating a fact, don't be upset.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

Boosti already stated a while ago that he DID turn ballad off as asked.

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Then why would they have gone a while being quiet then suddenly got mad at him again? That doesn't seem suspicious to you at all? Boosti's statement doesn't click with the information he originally provided.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

I did not say any such thing. :confused:

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You very strongly insinuated it, don't try to cop out now :)

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

How you misread what I actually said, I fail to understand... :p

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

Nowhere, did Boosti say he believes he was trying to screw party in any way, shape or form. Nowhere do I see an attitude of God's gift to FFXIV coming from his post, however, I DO see Riceisnice [and a couple of other folks] jumping to conclusions.

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You used the word "however" in a context that made it synonymous to "in contrast", further shown by your capitalizing of "DO".

Thanks for showing your concern, but I can read just fine, thank you very much :)

I'm confused, how would mages ballad help a healer DPS exactly?

Attack spells aren't exactly mana intensive unless it's like, holy spam.

Get that Stone II train a rolling and you might not be able to get it to stop. lol

I keep seeing these threads each day, every week, every month.
In all my df runs I've never EVER been harrased and I've been playing since 2.0 started.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact I actually play my jobs correctly and that i'm not actively picking fights when someone says something retarded.

Here's some tips to prevent harassment in df:
1. Git Gud
2. Grow a thicker skin
3. Don't watch netflix
4. Don't start df when you might have something coming up that can interrupt the run, like dinner or the pizza you ordered shortly before you started(americans).
5. Don't victimize yourself when some evil dude on the internet hurts your feelings.(see nr 2)

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

And as much as you believe you see it, no, I am not taking things out of context.

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Again, whether you see that you're going out of context or not, is entirely up to you.

By no means were they promoting harassment. If anything, they were just pointing out inconsistencies with the OP's story. I don't blame them for being skeptical given that this sort of thing has happened multiple times before. In fact, why not just play Foe's Requiem instead? If you believe there is a part in their post which implicates that, please do point it out. I really don't see it.


But, I digress. There wasn't really a point to this topic.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

@Boosti,

don't let "The Eye of Moron"(*) win the day.

Add them to your black list. Don't bother putting gil spammers on that list, once they have been complained about they will ultimately be banned, but their character will not be deleted, so their silenced character will remain in your blacklist forever. Use the blacklist for players that annoy you instead of short lived annoyances such as gil spam.

* - The Eye of Moron : the disembodied collective ignorance, anger, fear, hatred and stupidity of a million immature voices united through the power of anonymity over the Internet - aka the Eye of Moron....

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I have an eye too its called Eye of Automated Blacklist, anyone with a stupid name OR someone in chat being dumb/asshole(ish) I blacklist them end of story.
Need to put the ignorant in their place and let them know that their shit isn't tolerated.

Bard's Song = only a myth.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Again, whether you see that you're going out of context or not, is entirely up to you.

By no means were they promoting harassment. If anything, they were just pointing out inconsistencies with the OP's story. I don't blame them for being skeptical given that this sort of thing has happened multiple times before. In fact, why not just play Foe's Requiem instead? If you believe there is a part in their post which implicates that, please do point it out. I really don't see it.


But, I digress. There wasn't really a point to this topic.

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No they weren't directly promoting harassment. But the general statement of needing a thicker skin to participate in duty roulette to deal with harassment comes with the implication that we as players are absolved of any responsibility to mitigate that behavior and to try and keep the community a generally positive experience for as many players as possible. And I distinctly disagree with that implication. That doesn't mean withholding constructive criticisms, but deliver that criticism in a way that remembers there's a human behind the entity you're critiquing. Not only is acting with respect generally the right way to behave, in my opinion it's the more likely route to get your point across.

Not sure what's so wrong about making that point tbh...

The absolute irony in this topic is that the very toxicity the OP pointedoutis on display in many of the replies that border on hostile. There is no excuse for bullying, it should never be tolerated, nor should it be expected. Bullying and similar abuse in not a natural part of the Internet, it is a consequence of too many people believing that they are untouchable and free of consequence for their words or actions. It's not a natural aspect of the Internet, its an unfortunate aspect of human nature free of restraint.

Each of us control only how we act and react, we do not control others words or actions.

Quitting because of one run with unpleasant people? Yeah, best you stick to single-player games. You won't ever find an online game without unpleasant people unless they severely restrict how players can communicate with each other. (like smash bros online or hearthstone)

Hey, I sometimes get kicked because I really dislike and dont support those so called "speed(...?)" runs! o_o
(No support means: I heal slow, no AoE/buffs as dps, I dont pay attention to additional mobs some idiot pulled as tank!)

They are worthless, annoying and shows only NO respect to the devs who maded these dungeons!
Also: "Speed" runs are NOT faster!

I join per Duty Finder! You meet -->random<-- people!
They cant expect every1 like the same thing! <.<

Sorry OP and others who are in the everything needs to be sunshine and rainbows hugbox camp but some times you have to call the baby ugly. If a person is under performing for that content they should be told they're doing so. It's up to them whether they correct this or not and it's up to the 3 others to decide if they're willing to put up with this or not afterwards. If they're not willing to accept accountability for their own performance they should be ready to deal with getting booted. I do feel some forms of insults do go too far but it varies. Through my time lvling drk, nin and now whm I've seen DPS under perform even what I was doing as brd back in the 2.x series, which is pretty bad to the point I looked at my performance and decided brd was not my thing. I don't expect Olympic Gold performance but I also don't expect a simple dungeon run to take 10+ minutes longer than normal if there's no wipes.

You can't really do anything to *fix* a community, it's just a random sample of people who play the game that we all view as the 'community'

There are always gonna be jerks in every game. Don't let a few people being mean bring you down.

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Originally Posted by Amiantos

If a person is under performing for that content they should be told they're doing so. It's up to them whether they correct this or not and it's up to the 3 others to decide if they're willing to put up with this or not afterwards. If they're not willing to accept accountability for their own performance they should be ready to deal with getting booted. I do feel some forms of insults do go too far but it varies.
**snp** I don't expect Olympic Gold performance but I also don't expect a simple dungeon run to take 10+ minutes longer than normal if there's no wipes.

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You do not get to decide if someone is underperforming, nor do you get to define underperforming. Putting your self importance aside, everyone pays the same sub, everyone deserves respect. I am so tired of self appointed judges of how long a run should take, how much dps should be done, how others should play their role, etc. you can't see it, but that attitude is a huge driver behind the toxicity being discussed.

I don't agree with everything RiceisNice has posted but mostly they are just elaborating on one of the possible scenarios based on what OP has told us. So they aren't really jumping to conclusions or condoning abuse on other players. They actually said they aren't condoning harassment or bad behavior.

Jerichai all your posts have been pretty good for promoting decency towards other players, but I think you might be misunderstanding Rice.

Some of the things Rice posted was a bit too much assumption but most of it was just pointing out the other side of the story...like from what OP posted it can branch two ways to what happened. Since we have insufficient info to know what really happened.

Scenario 1. The other member in the group outright raged at OP about ballad without asking why or being respectful about it.
This would mean that pretty much the other member is imo in the wrong no matter how OP acted afterwards, they lit the fire with gasoline instead of just starting with a small ember of decently worded questions or suggestions. OP could either get mad back or just say they were trying to help, but either way that kind of treatment was uncalled for since you shouldn't assume someone is deliberately not trying to help the group. They may think they are helping they just don't know something you might know.

Scenario 2. The other member did ask why OP was ballading either nicely or in an indifferent way and OP immediately overreacted and got defensive.
This would be the problem that Rice brought up that might have happened. If this happened OP was imo in the wrong because they overreacted to someone's light critique of their playstyle. So in this case OP lit the fire with gasoline and probably shouldn't have overreacted. You can't just assume someone is asking you a question about what you are doing to make fun of you. They might just been genuinely curious and/or want to help you.

I posted my opinion based on scenario 1. Rice posted their opinion based on scenario 2. Neither of us is correct or incorrect about the OP, we just discussing how people may perceive these scenarios.

I tried to let people know not to immediately rage at players because they aren't doing what you think is best. They may not know what you'd like them to help the group with.

Rice tried to impart the other side of the coin. That if someone asks or even lightly critiques or tries to suggest another way of playing that you shouldn't overreact or get defensive. They may just be trying to help you.

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Originally Posted by Boosti

That was it nothing else was said by me. Then all hell broke loose i was told i'm a worthless retard and suck at the game and then was kicked out of the dungeon. Today will be the last time I get on this game, unless there is some saving grace that will fix this toxic community from the egotistical ass holes that consume it. I love Final Fantasy but this happens to much to make me enjoy a game that is no longer fun. If other have had this please let me know your story and how it has effected you.

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Why aren't you with a FC, and why aren't you running with them? Problem solved?

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

Hey, I sometimes get kicked because I really dislike and dont support those so called "speed(...?)" runs! o_o
(No support means: I heal slow, no AoE/buffs as dps, I dont pay attention to additional mobs some idiot pulled as tank!)

They are worthless, annoying and shows only NO respect to the devs who maded these dungeons!
Also: "Speed" runs are NOT faster!

I join per Duty Finder! You meet -->random<-- people!
They cant expect every1 like the same thing! <.<

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We call that being selfish.

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Originally Posted by RickXRolled

We call that being selfish.

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No "we" don't. Playing as intended does not equate to speed runs. Speed runs are something that some players do, and it would be courteous to request a speed run in DR/DF, but is others don't want to, then it's not a speed run, and not wantingto speed run is not selfish, pushing or bullying others to do it IS.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

No "we" don't. Playing as intended does not equate to speed runs. Speed runs are something that some players do, and it would be courteous to request a speed run in DR/DF, but is others don't want to, then it's not a speed run, and not wantingto speed run is not selfish, pushing or bullying others to do it IS.

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Getting vote-kicked for not contributing to one is a "difference in play styles", though, so be prepared for that black loading screen.

How do you even speed run the newer dungeons ? They have barriers put up that prevents you from making giant pulls. The pulls that people are doing now are not even meduim pulls.

Pulling half a dungeon and wondering things aren't dying super fast (hint: the mobs in HW have higher hp pools). is not a speed run.

And this is coming from someone who loves giant pulls AND dpsing as healer ._.


Anyway to OP just play Foe's for healer if you see them in cleric stance makes dps for us a bit higher. 3k assize ;-;

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

No "we" don't. Playing as intended does not equate to speed runs. Speed runs are something that some players do, and it would be courteous to request a speed run in DR/DF, but is others don't want to, then it's not a speed run, and not wantingto speed run is not selfish, pushing or bullying others to do it IS.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

Hey, I sometimes get kicked because I really dislike and dont support those so called "speed(...?)" runs! o_o
(No support means: I heal slow, no AoE/buffs as dps, I dont pay attention to additional mobs some idiot pulled as tank!)

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Intentionally and uncompromisingly crippling your play and hurting the group in an attempt to prove some point when the others don't want to do what you want them to do is pretty selfish...

If there are 3 people in the group wanting to do a quick run, and one person wanting a slow run, and that one person intentionally slows the run down, that person is being very selfish. And that's what AsahinaMyLove just admitted to doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

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Can call me toxic all you wish and I'll just laugh. There's a base line that I've seen that can constitute saying some one is under performing. I've leveled my dark knight, nin and working on whm solely off roulette's, dungeons and daily hunt list so I've seen good, bad and average players. I've seen nins who don't put up either Kiss of the Viper or Kiss of the Wasp despite pointing it out or using Huton then doing way less than what most others do as nin. They can play as they want but at the same time if myself and the others agree that Mr. Non Kiss of the Viper/Wasp or Mr. I'm not gonna use Huton is the cause of why everything is going so slow we have the same right to replace him. Especially if it comes to harder content too.