On the lack of humanity in our community.

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Originally Posted by Yoshiyuki

emotional genocide

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Quoting this sheerly for the hilarity of this combination of words. That aside...

Honey, life isn't fair and a lot of things that happen aren't "right". What you call "dehumanization" isn't limited to this game, or even the internet. It's a problem endemic to the human species as a whole. It exists at a much deeper layer than just people's behavior in online games; it just appears more openly on the internet than in real life because it's easy to get away with antisocial behavior on the internet and not have to suffer the consequences.

Once games like this get big enough the sense of players being "disposable" or "replaceable" becomes very common, which is the driver behind a lot of the behavior you are describing. There isn't a whole lot that can be done about it, I'm very sorry to say. Best thing you can do is keep looking for a place that's right for you.

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Originally Posted by adn

Honey, life isn't fair and a lot of things that happen aren't "right".

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What is things parents don't teach their children?

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Originally Posted by YukariOro

I often can't change how I feel, but I can change how I act and react because of how I feel and have worked hard to do so.

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QFT
This is something that is very wise, and very, very true. It is a piece of wisdom that I honestly think would make the world so much a better place if everyone could understand and apply it to their life.

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Originally Posted by YukariOro

And so true on how treatments differ, for example, anti-depressants are among the worst things someone with bipolar can take, and can actually make them sicker. There have been studies down however, that find that cognitive therapy actually can help a bipolar patient improve, whether they are on medicine or not, and I personally have found this to be true in my case.

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I learned that I can control how I react, but not how others act through cognitive therapy. Sadly, many people do not respect such 'talk therapy' and consider the only solution to be medicinal, when in fact there are many beneficial courses of action that can be taken.

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Originally Posted by YukariOro

lol, I was gonna stop talking about depression, especially after some of these ignorant comments I've read and received, but yours was just too good and insightful not to reply to. =)

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Age and experience sometimes lead to insight. I won't go into particulars but I have some experience of the impacts of depression and bipolar disorder - among other things.

I agree 110% that we control how we react - so we need to focus on our own reactions, emotions and behavior. However, there is one thing I feel that I must add. Just as it is imperative that we learn to cope with and control our own reactions - and disregard the negative actions or perceptions of others, we should also understand and respect the fact that many people are unable to do so.

Due to that, we also need to work on how others react to or treat others. Even though we have no direct control over that, we as members of our communities and society in general, do have a duty to use whatever influence we have to make it clear that our community has higher standards of behavior, and that certain types of behavior are unacceptable. Some would say I live in a self inflicted Utopia, because I believe that we can improve things. Maybe they are right, but I refuse to give in to such pessimism and continue to hope and work for change.

In respect to the OP and FFXIV, our community does face an issue here, and although we will all be individually better off for understanding we control only our own reactions and behavior; I think that the community will only benefit when what I have called bullying is diminished and replaced by a greater sense of humanity.

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Originally Posted by YukariOro

All those things you describe, those symptoms you listed, they're not just an idea or a concept to me, I actually live them. But because you seem to be on some kind of crusade to prove what depression really is, it appears to me that you never bothered to stop to see exactly who you were addressing your rebuttal to, the very type of person you're supposedly trying to defend with your aggressive comments. A person who deals daily with severe depression. Me. Good intentions or not, your actions seem to be misguided.

And if it works for me to think this way, and it does, then no, I am not wrong to think this way. For me it is a healthy approach and nothing you can say or do will convince me otherwise. For me this is a valid coping method, period. Simple as that.

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I replied to you, yes, but the post wasn't meant only for you. Other people read these forums, and if they can take something away from my reply (like the graphs I linked) and have a clearer view of what suffering from depression actually means, that's what I'm aiming for. I didn't think my comments were "aggressive" but then again it wouldn't be the first time that I was misinterpreted that way. I know what I'm trying to say, but often times express it in a way that makes other people think I'm angry or upset when that's simply not the case. I'm not on a "crusade" as you seem to think; how you cope with your depression is very personal and very much up to you. The only reason I even posted is because you were using "depression" interchangeably with "sadness" when to me it's important to note that they're two completely separate (albeit related) things. I just don't want you to think I'm upset or angry. It's actually nice to discuss it with someone that can actually understand what I feel and deal with.

With that said, we're really off topic now and we should probably stop. :3

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

This is something that is very wise, and very, very true. It is a piece of wisdom that I honestly think would make the world so much a better place if everyone could understand and apply it to their life.

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I agree with you, life would be much better if people were more aware of what they can and can't control, and their limitations when it comes to controlling others.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I learned that I can control how I react, but not how others act through cognitive therapy. Sadly, many people do not respect such 'talk therapy' and consider the only solution to be medicinal, when in fact there are many beneficial courses of action that can be taken.

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I think this is because most people are used to the traditional sit down and spew talk therapy and they really haven't learned or know the difference in how something like cognitive therapy.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Age and experience sometimes lead to insight. I won't go into particulars but I have some experience of the impacts of depression and bipolar disorder - among other things.

I agree 110% that we control how we react - so we need to focus on our own reactions, emotions and behavior. However, there is one thing I feel that I must add. Just as it is imperative that we learn to cope with and control our own reactions - and disregard the negative actions or perceptions of others, we should also understand and respect the fact that many people are unable to do so.

Due to that, we also need to work on how others react to or treat others. Even though we have no direct control over that, we as members of our communities and society in general, do have a duty to use whatever influence we have to make it clear that our community has higher standards of behavior, and that certain types of behavior are unacceptable. Some would say I live in a self inflicted Utopia, because I believe that we can improve things. Maybe they are right, but I refuse to give in to such pessimism and continue to hope and work for change.

In respect to the OP and FFXIV, our community does face an issue here, and although we will all be individually better off for understanding we control only our own reactions and behavior; I think that the community will only benefit when what I have called bullying is diminished and replaced by a greater sense of humanity.

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I agree with you, and when I see people bullying, I try to politely speak up. But sometimes the toughest thing to realize, is that sometimes you can't change anything, and that's when you have to learn when you need to retreat and take care of your own. It's a very fine line, that dividing line though. That said, I try really hard to monitor myself and how I act and react, and hope that makes at least some positive impact. =)

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I replied to you, yes, but the post wasn't meant only for you. Other people read these forums, and if they can take something away from my reply (like the graphs I linked) and have a clearer view of what suffering from depression actually means, that's what I'm aiming for. I didn't think my comments were "aggressive" but then again it wouldn't be the first time that I was misinterpreted that way. I know what I'm trying to say, but often times express it in a way that makes other people think I'm angry or upset when that's simply not the case. I'm not on a "crusade" as you seem to think; how you cope with your depression is very personal and very much up to you. The only reason I even posted is because you were using "depression" interchangeably with "sadness" when to me it's important to note that they're two completely separate (albeit related) things. I just don't want you to think I'm upset or angry. It's actually nice to discuss it with someone that can actually understand what I feel and deal with.

With that said, we're really off topic now and we should probably stop. :3

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First off, let me say I how much I appreciate your polite and civil reply back.

Generally if multiple people feel you come across aggressive, it's probably something you are doing, probably unintentionally I suspect, that is leading others to feel this way. Whether it be your word choice, or because you make assumptions and reading more into what people mean in their posts than they are actually saying. Or it could be as simple as you choosing target your comments to the wrong audience, as you seem to have with myself. I would have thought it would be obvious, given that I clearly stated I suffer from Bipolar Type II depression, that I would be the last person who needed to be educated about depression. And yet it was me you chose to single out from everyone else, intentional or not.

As for your comment about my use of the word "sad," while I did use the word in my posts, I never once used "sad" to describe what depression was like, not sure why you thought I did. That said, it is possible to feel both depressed and sad at the same time I believe. But yes, to me, they are not the same emotion, and I never claimed that they were, despite what you thought.

What I did do, however, was list various unrelated emotions, and this list included "happiness" as well, yet you didn't seem to take offense at my listing happiness, only the word "sad." "Sad" certainly was not the only emotion I listed at the time. If you had taken the time to notice the context I was using them in, you would have seen that I definitely was NOT comparing depression to sadness other than to say they are all emotions, yes very different emotions, but they're both natural human emotions. And yes, some emotions are stronger than others, some are more painful, some feel more good, but they are all still emotions. And yes, I did use the word "like", but that was a descriptive of the word emotion, not the word depression, as you seemed to believe.

That you took offense at my listing a series of unrelated emotions, which I simply listed because they were all emotions, and well...I think your overreaction to something I never actually said speaks for itself.

all the emotional stuff aside it really is annoying watching people slowly... well very rapidly shun a class it happened to warrior when 2.0 launched, summoners had to deal with it when final coil first launched due to mp being a problem sure a fix will be coming but with the weekly currency's being exclusive to each individual job and people going for world firsts and clears before 3.1 if you like a class and wanna get it done sadly you gotta put what you like aside until the storm is over and it sucks.

EDIT: one of the biggest things that usually sets people off about this myself included is when you play Astro and do as much of the content as you can then try SCH or WHM and just go well damn this got way easier hey look my cooldowns matter.

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Originally Posted by adn

Once games like this get big enough the sense of players being "disposable" or "replaceable" becomes very common, which is the driver behind a lot of the behavior you are describing. There isn't a whole lot that can be done about it, I'm very sorry to say. Best thing you can do is keep looking for a place that's right for you.

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Cynical but does appear to be correct.

Since content requires a group, people will group to get what they want. But that is the extend of the relationship. "You scratch my back, I scratch yours. If you can't scratch my back, I want nothing to do with you." is the motto by which these players operate. Ironically these very players will tell you this is a MMO, that content where the whole group fails if one person messes up is a requirement because it's "social"; on the surface, yes, it's "social", as social as an employee being all smiles towards his jerk boss while wishing he could punch his lights out.

Would be nice if there were group content where players have the opportunity to voluntary, altruistically, help each other out.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

Cynical but does appear to be correct.

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Not cynical; informed. I've played MMOs big and small for a long time now, and in smaller MMOs there is tighter social cohesion, and if you go against the social "norms" or consistently behave antisocially, you will quickly find yourself unable to do anything because nobody wants to associate with you.

FFXIV is what I'd call a "big" MMO, where there are no lasting repercussions for abusing other players because you will likely never see anybody you meet in DF again and if your static kicks you out you can just get a new one or go to a different server. You only get in serious trouble if you do something that can get your account suspended.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Someone else commented that this was a "pretty ignorant statement", and I agree with them. Your statement implies that depression is something that you can control and/avoid. It's not, and based on your other posts you should already know that. However you seem to me to have convinced yourself that your coping mechanisms are somehow able to protect you from depression. Even if that is true for you, that doesn't make it true for *anyone* else. There are many, many forms of depression and many ways for it to express itself. Bipolar disorder is one of those. Again though, you should know already that something that presents a solution, or at least improvement to one person will not necessarily help another since every person is different and each person's depression is unique to them, even if you share the same diagnosis. Anti-depressants help some, not others, the same medication may be miraculous to one, and treacherous to another, cognitive therapy could be curative to one, and drive others into a deeper state. Some depression is primarily based on biochemistry, and some based on stress, life circumstance, environment, behavior and/or history. Suggesting that someone who is depressed should take tranquilizers misses the mark by several light years.

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I'm sorry, but you're the ignorant person if you think that staying in a bad environment that triggers, or at least worsens the symptoms of depression is a good idea. Environment is always a factor in any kind of depression and its severity.

I'm sure if you went to a therapist regularly for treatment and told them about how switching jobs in a game makes you feel inhuman and regularly complained to them about the game, they would tell you to remove yourself from the situation.

I was actually told this by a therapist once when I was experiencing depression. I was told to remove myself from a bad environment ASAP. Therapy is a means of "controlling" depression by way of managing its symptoms, and removing yourself from a bad environment is one of the most basic, essential pieces of therapeutic advice you can get when going through any form of depression. A therapist who tells you to remain in a bad environment that is causing you distress is a bad therapist.

You can believe what you want, but please be informed if you're going to give people advice. And please don't try to encourage people to remain in a dangerous environment for them. That is not good or informed advice.

With the way the OP worded things, I do not understand one bit how people can be encouraging them to remain in this game (or not take a break at the least). Whether its ignorance or malicious intent, such advice has no place here, and it's pathetic that CrimsonThunder's advice to just stick it out and push on for absolutely no benefit vs cost to a person's mental health when something is bringing you great pain is getting so many upvotes. But I've come to not expect much from people on these forums. If anyone reading this is being made depressed more than happy by this game or are feeling your depression amplified and you feel you can't take it anymore, please do not feel like you should. If the game is hurting you more than it's making you happy, move on or take a break. That's my advice and likely the advice any good therapist would give you.

And tranquilizers O.o? Really? Don't recall saying that. Please quote me if I mentioned tranquilizers. Manipulating people who haven't read everything I've said isn't nice. I just want people to not remain in a hazardous environment when they can't take the poison anymore. That should be universally good advice.

Yoshiyuki, I see you consider yourself a "casual" now. Good call. It's a game. Should be something you do in your leisure time to have fun, dream, hopefully recharge your batteries. Not an unpaid job, or a mission.
Once I read one of the first reviews of WoW, by a reviewer who liked to highlight what was, in his opinion, the "main point" of a game. For WoW he said simply, "Being a hero in a fantasy world". To this day, I think he nailed it for all these games. Let's all simply be heroes and heroines in this fantasy world. Specs, gear, tomes etc. should be a byproduct of playing the game, not the main reasons to play.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I'm sorry, but you're the ignorant person if you think that staying in a bad environment that triggers, or at least worsens the symptoms of depression is a good idea. Environment is always a factor in any kind of depression and its severity.

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You should read my posts again, I'm certain that in my first and/or second replies in this topic I absolutely advocated removing yourself from the environment, if no other solution is viable.

Listen, I respect your opinions as regards you yourself amd what works for you. However i believe your therapist was wrong if they claimed that therapy can ontrol depression in general. Many people have a biochemical imbalance that is the root cause of their issue, therapy will not be particularly effective controlling that. You are falling into the trap of assuming that what works for you (assuming it works)will work for everyone else, it won't, every person and situation is unique.

You did not say that the OP should take tranquilizers, my original reply incorrectly makes it look like you did because I answered thst point when replying to your comment, and I apologize for that. I should have broken that thought out of my reply directed to you. I will ammend the post and copy the correction here also.

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Correction
My original reply incorrectly made it seem that Adire had suggested the use of tranquilizers. In fact they did not, Ceodore on the other hand DID.

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

Seriously, calm down. Take a Xanax or Valium or something.

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Suggesting that someone who is depressed should take tranquilizers misses the mark by several light years.

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My apologies for not making my reply clear in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

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I think we can agree that bipolar disorder is an example of a disorder that causes depression onset, regardless of triggers. However:

http://www.webmd.com/bipolar-disorde...polar-disorder

Apparently, therapy is indeed a well accepted method of attempting to manage depression symptoms, even in bipolar disorder. Is it perfect? No. Is it a cure? No. But it is a treatment, therapeutic advice is good for anyone. Including the advice to avoid remaining in a bad environment.

I am simply saying that remaining in a hostile and/or damaging environment is not healthy for depression, and increases vulnerability of worsening symptoms for anyone, regardless of their case. That is fact. That is not ignorance. You will be hard pressed to find a therapist who recommends that a depressed person remain in such an environment. And anyone who gives the advice to remain in bad environments for a person should really not be giving advice.

Oh, and when a game is causing you as much as much pain as it is making you happy, or more pain even, it ceases to be therapeutic.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Oh, and when a game is causing you as much as much pain as it is making you happy, or more pain even, it ceases to be therapeutic.

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I have and will always maintain that any time a game ceases to be fun, it's time to try something else. The trouble here is that a player can be stressed and not enjoy their game play depending on how they play and who with. So changing those things would be a first step for someone who actually enjoys the underlying game. I'm not going to argue with you about depression or bipolar disorder, I have my experience, you have yours.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I have and will always maintain that any time a game ceases to be fun, it's time to try something else. The trouble here is that a player can be stressed and not enjoy their game play depending on how they play and who with. So changing those things would be a first step for someone who actually enjoys the underlying game. I'm not going to argue with you about depression or bipolar disorder, I have my experience, you have yours.

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The problem is, you never know when that can change. I'm sure the OP thought they were in good company for a while with their static, then it turned out the static was the main trigger for the OP to post this thread. You can only start to hate the game's community so much before it becomes unrealistic for you to stay and be happy. MMOs are as much about community and socializing as they are about gaming, and you can't really do much in an MMO without encountering people.

That is a common problem with any MMO. To some it becomes a worker bee mentality and people get so focused on gaining items that'll no doubt be obsolete in the upcoming months but feel there is GREAT importance in having it now to satisfy what exactly?

It all reflects on the players I just don't think people are emphatic enough when playing these types of games with other people, it brings out the selfish desires of many to obtain power or bragging rights that in reality doesn't mean anything at all.

What I enjoyed in the game is once I got to a certain level of mastery I gave back to the new ones and sat with them and explained tactics with them. If a mob got too powerful well I'd go out and poke it with a stick and it dies. Can you truly call this a community if everything is about achieving a means to an end?

Just start invading other people's worlds and you can farm humanity pretty quick

I will just say that there are many communities beyond the Endgame community. If you focus on competition and progression, of course course people around you are going to be shitty. Besides pursuing shitty community then complaining how terrible it is. How about appreciating all the other incredibly warming, pleasant, and welcoming communities xiv has to offer.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

It was inevitable given the way the content is designed to be played, where the whole group is punished for the failings of a few.

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Which will be the ultimate ruination of this game, few players screw up EVERYONE loses, League of Legends IS just like this as well, no matter how skillful a person is they're ultimately unrewarded if they have someone on their team that isn't as skilled which will result in loss after loss after loss, which in turn breeds angst and hatred, end game content sure is hard but do they need to be rediculously hard where if 1 person screws up everyone loses for his failure? why is that a necessity in games nowadays cause skill means team coordination? I dunno about that I've seen lots of skillful players in gaming IN general do alot without help, why must the whole team be punished for 1 mistake made, it makes no sense logically.

Why Square Enix promotes this kind of thing I don't understand.

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Originally Posted by RaidenJetstream

Dear gods, calm down.

It's a video game.

A

video

game.

You make it sound like it made you suicidal or something.

And at the risk of dehumanizing you, I think you have some issues with obsession if you get like this over video games. It's a distraction. A game. Nothing more. And I say this as someone who's in alex savage and has a static myself.

So chill. Have fun. Stop this.



Pretty much every psychiatrist/psychologist would disagree with you.
Including my own.

Depression is a horrible affliction that can destroy people's lives and take them away.

It is the purest incarnation of 'bad'.

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Of course they would disagree, if people viewed depression that way they would make less money.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Apparently, therapy is indeed a well accepted method of attempting to manage depression symptoms, even in bipolar disorder. Is it perfect? No. Is it a cure? No. But it is a treatment, therapeutic advice is good for anyone.

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Hi, I've dealt with depression for the last decade. Care to explain why my experiences with therapy drove me deeper into depression for a time?

If one form of treatment works for you, that's great. I hope everyone dealing with mental illness eventually finds an effective regimen to over come it. But stop pushing the narrative that one thing will benefit everyone. We know so little about how the human brain functions...and how it can dysfunction...to make statements like that. All that narrative serves is to make people feel more hopeless when the 'tried and true' methods don't yield beneficial results for them.

I sacrificed my humanity to the RNG gods, and have since ascended to a plane of high rolls and rare drops. Quit groveling in the dirt and join me. Swear your loyalty to the random numbers and take your first step to the merciless realm of flawless luck.

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

snip.

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Would you consider the advice to remain in a harmful environment good or bad therapeutic advice?

Because some people on this thread have given that advice, and the crux of all of my arguments on this thread has been that some therapeutic advice can be bad, and some can be good.

So you're preaching to the choir here. I can assure you, and any therapist with half a brain could assure you, that remaining in an environment that is doing you harm is a bad idea. Some people have claimed otherwise. Hopefully they are not therapists. Because if they were therapists, they'd be the kind that gave you advice that drove you deeper into depression, as you seem to have experienced.

Good therapeutic advice can benefit anyone, regardless of the source of their depression. Even the advice to get out of bed and try to find someone to help you is therapeutic advice for a depressed person that would help anyone. As is the advice to get out of bad situations.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Would you consider the advice to remain in a harmful environment good or bad therapeutic advice?

Because some people on this thread have given that advice, and the crux of all of my arguments on this thread has been that some therapeutic advice can be bad, and some can be good.

So you're preaching to the choir here. I can assure you, and any therapist with half a brain could assure you, that remaining in an environment that is doing you harm is a bad idea. Some people have claimed otherwise. Hopefully they are not therapists. Because if they were therapists, they'd be the kind that gave you advice that drove you deeper into depression, as you seem to have experienced.

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How am I preaching to the choir when I'm refuting your comment of 'But it is a treatment, therapeutic advice is good for anyone'. I mean...after you say that you immediately jump back into what therapists would say. And how does my comment have anything to do with what others are suggesting the OP do. Believe me, my intentions were purely to call out your problematic opinion.

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

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I'm guessing you haven't read many of my other posts. You seem to not understand the context I've been speaking in. Also, please refer to my last sentence in my previous post that I just added in. Do you disagree with that sentence? Do you think that some people can't be helped at all by therapeutic advice of any kind?

Because I know enough to know that people have a lot to do with someone's ability to overcome depression in any case. I do not know of any case of depression where the person has not benefited from some form of therapy, even if it's therapeutic advice from someone who isn't even a therapist.

Edit: As for what it has to do with the suggestions people have made, my "problematic opinion" coexists with the arguments in this thread that good therapeutic advice can be universally beneficial. Because my advice to people who are depressed by the game's community is to remove themselves from the situation rather than remain in its harmful effects and continue to suffer.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I'm guessing you haven't read many of my other posts. You seem to not understand the context I've been speaking in. Also, please refer to my last sentence in my previous post that I just added in. Do you disagree with that sentence? Do you think that some people can't be helped at all by therapeutic advice of any kind?

Because I know enough to know that people have a lot to do with someone's ability to overcome depression in any case. I do not know of any case of depression where the person has not benefited from some form of therapy, even if it's therapeutic advice from someone who isn't even a therapist.

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Yes, I do believe that therapy does not necessarily help everyone overcome depression. My evidence? How about nearly a year's worth of once a week visits that in the end drove me deeper into depression at that time in my life. I also remember all the people trying to tell me...like you are now...that therapy should be making things better, which only served to instill a sense of hopelessness in me that I'd ever get over depression.

I loved the reference to a line from "Answers", having found myself recently referencing a part of "Dragonsong" while posting about an argument that was simply going in circles (mostly due to blanket statements, all seems to tie in together doesn't it?)

I also agree with the bit about the hypothetical shutting down of the entire game. With all of your in-game progress gone, what would you be able to take away from your experiences? Your items, gear, coil runs, raid clears, and achievements are gone, so all you'd have would be the memories and interactions you shared with your fellow players in the game. Hopefully the better part of those memories/interactions were positive, and not ripping people a new one over a game. It's only human to occasionally get frustrated, but if you're paying a subscription to primarily get pissed at people playing the same game, then... damn...

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

I sacrificed my humanity to the RNG gods, and have since ascended to a plane of high rolls and rare drops. Quit groveling in the dirt and join me. Swear your loyalty to the random numbers and take your first step to the merciless realm of flawless luck.

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http://media3.giphy.com/media/el60e3Cu18KKk/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

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I think my advice to people who may be feeling amplified effects of depression from playing this game to take a break or leave is good for ALL people who are feeling this way, regardless of the why's and how's of their depression.

So yes, I believe my advice to leave or take a break from what's hurting you is good therapeutic advice to all the situation is relevant for.

I think you're misunderstanding my context though. I've never claimed that all therapy is always beneficial to everyone. The bad therapeutic advice people have given in this thread that I have called out should be evidence of this for you.

I can say that my advice to not stay in a harmful environment is universally good therapeutic advice, however.

Edit: You also seemed to have missed this from my original quote:

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Originally Posted by Adire

Apparently, therapy is indeed a well accepted method of attempting to manage depression symptoms, even in bipolar disorder. Is it perfect? No. Is it a cure? No. But it is a treatment, therapeutic advice is good for anyone. Including the advice to avoid remaining in a bad environment.

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Nowhere did I say that all therapy is a magical fix all for everyone, or even insinuate that it always produces a positive effect. As I said before, some therapy doesn't work (including the official sort), some even has bad effects. Hence why I used the word attempting. But there is always some sort of therapy, even if it's just good therapeutic advice or treatment, that will benefit you. What you tried just happened to not be good for you and (I'm going to assume) none of the advice your therapist gave you was universally good advice.

I can assure you though, that anyone who chooses to leave a harmful environment will be doing themselves more good than harm. This is an example of universally good therapeutic advice and positive therapy as a result.

Do you think it could possibly, ever be good advice to someone to stay in an environment that is further amplifying their depression? If not, then I think we're more on the same page than you think we are.

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Originally Posted by adn

Not cynical; informed. I've played MMOs big and small for a long time now, and in smaller MMOs there is tighter social cohesion, and if you go against the social "norms" or consistently behave antisocially, you will quickly find yourself unable to do anything because nobody wants to associate with you.

FFXIV is what I'd call a "big" MMO, where there are no lasting repercussions for abusing other players because you will likely never see anybody you meet in DF again and if your static kicks you out you can just get a new one or go to a different server. You only get in serious trouble if you do something that can get your account suspended.

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very much so...very very much so

Mei

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

I sacrificed my humanity to the RNG gods, and have since ascended to a plane of high rolls and rare drops. Quit groveling in the dirt and join me. Swear your loyalty to the random numbers and take your first step to the merciless realm of flawless luck.

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You jest, but a grind where that stupid item just won't drop can really turn one salty.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

You jest, but a grind where that stupid item just won't drop can really turn one salty.

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it does, I had that sense with the relic quest pre-nerf, 2 weeks zero drops, I stopped doing that quest and I can live without ahving done it. Not Worth the aggravation. When something visibly annoys you to a point where you become salty, best not bother and move doing something else. Afterall is not the end of the world.

If more people had this approach the community as a whole would be far better.

Mei

I just want to add my thoughts to the mix.

I played quite obsessively in 1.0 until ARR. Did a lot of group content etc. When ARR came out and the dungeon finder and duty roulette came out It was brilliant because it was easy access content that didn't require me to do any organization (these didn't exist in 1.0 so you had to rely on shouts). The problem being that making it easier to access meant I could just feed my obsessive nature more and I ended up consuming too much too quickly and got really burnt out.
During that time because I was so familiar with the content and was irritable all the time I was frequently mean to other new players or people who played sub-optimally. Luckily I caught myself doing it and decided to have a really long break (best decision I ever made btw!).

I came back with Heavensward and am taking an entirely different approach. I'm going at my own pace (I played since early access and am still only just getting to the Ravana fight in the story) because slow and steady suits me. I have to resist my natural urge to just rush through everything and become too obsessive. Unfortunately I've struggled with socialising because much of the games social aspects revolve around dungeons/raids.

But I've never been happier playing the game! I spend most of my time by myself (or my cute minions) and just go at my own pace. I think pacing is really important in any MMO especially gear treadmill types. Learn what your pace is and stick to it or you'll burn out and become a mean abusive player! Become an experienced player in your own time, and you'll be a nice, helpful, wise player instead!

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

You jest, but a grind where that stupid item just won't drop can really turn one salty.

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The pre-nerf atma grind was my first real tussle with RNG, and it was quite a battle of wills to take it easy and not burn out over them. I'd do FATE's if I happened to pass by them, or occasionally dedicate an hour or two block to farming them. I can only imagine the mental anguish the "gotta-have-it's" went through farming every atma back to back.