Parsers make you stupid

Your WHM couldn't tell they were hit by megaflare without a parser?

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Originally Posted by Badkarma

I expect people to know how to play their class to a competent level.

I expect people to have a basic knowledge of fights in raids and trials.

I do not expect people to be a member of Elysium or Lucrezia in disguise.

But when people mistake a cry for competence as the shunnings of an elitist, they get mad.

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Those are all fair expectations. I have the same expectations. Were' talking about the exceptions here.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

Of course not. Just don't be an ass if someone doesn't know how to play their class as well as you know how to play yours.

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The funny thing from my experience ,90% of the time you offer help that person is the asshole. I love when a new player announces they are new, and more importantly is open to suggestions. I've been in multiple dungeons where I held a tanks hand thru an entire run. I'd mark targets, explain how to pull groups, how to use there rotation, and everything went great. But most the time it's "STFU I know what I'm doing" or after a boss wipe "oh I don't know the mechanics". The second happens less now, since the game announces someone is new.

Who the heck need's an parser all you need to do is set up your battle log to show your dmg and do the math it's not hard heck you can also tell you is lacking or over compasating I'd this and as an whm I know my hps also I have never had an issue with others about dps or hps is low I set up my rot before hand for the content I'm doing and you can tell by just watching what the person is doing

Think this Reddit post is relevant here ^^

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...this_actually/

Level 60, using Rain of death as his main attack, because "it's a higher level skill than Bloodletter"

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Originally Posted by dragorian

Who the heck need's an parser all you need to do is set up your battle log to show your dmg

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I said this once in another thread about not having a sanctioned parser, man did I hear about it.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

People do this now...having an in game parser isn't going to change things. This is a fear based arguments to not allow in game parsers. A parser is literally only information, it is up to the people using that information to determine how it is being used.

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Yes, but the person quoted seems to think they'd become a magical tool that suddenly made people play better and stop bitching.

No, it wouldn't. In fact, it has the potential to make it *worse*.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Think this Reddit post is relevant here ^^

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...this_actually/

Level 60, using Rain of death as his main attack, because "it's a higher level skill than Bloodletter"

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That's what happens when there's no in game parser :p. 300 dps bard GG

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

Switch to the "battle" tab on the chat box, it will show your damage.

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

And you win the award for the most useless response to a thread ever. Bonus for the out of context quote! Grats.

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

That updates in realtime that shows an accurate reflection of my total DPS in a specific encounter. Learn to read English please. Sorry if its not your first language.

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Thats what transpired in an older thread about parsers

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Originally Posted by Ferth

That and the internet in general seems to bring out the worst aspects of humanity.

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http://www.penny-arcade.com/S=0/comic/2004/03/19

This is all that needs to be said.

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Originally Posted by Sakei

The worst tank I ever saw had a great parse. It was in EQ2, I was healing and he was out dps'ing all of our dps. It was easy for him since his gear far exceeded everyone else since it was from the top raids at the time. He couldn't hold ago to save his life, literally. The dps couldn't obliterate the mobs in a normal dungeon pickup group like his raid guild buddies. So, the mobs were up long enough that he actually needed to use taunts and tank stance couldn't have hurt either. So, he topped the parse but kept causing everyone to die because of it. Thankfully, he left after only a few pulls.

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Did he happen to be a zerker or SK?

Becuase those were the two notorious ones. -_- At least on Crushbone.

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Originally Posted by ivyblue

Parsers make you stupid

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No, parsers don't make people stupid. Stupid people make people stupid.

This thread annoys me, op highlights the true scum of the community ( dps>mechanics hues ) but that thread title...;_;

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Yes, but the person quoted seems to think they'd become a magical tool that suddenly made people play better and stop bitching.

No, it wouldn't. In fact, it has the potential to make it *worse*.

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Adding an in-game parser will do two things. First it'll give us a more accurate parser. Most players that want a parser already use a parser. Two it'll introduce others to the info a parser offers. All the elitist jerks that flame on newbs already use a parser.

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Originally Posted by Kona_Nightwind

Adding an in-game parser will do two things. First it'll give us a more accurate parser. Most players that want a parser already use a parser. Two it'll introduce others to the info a parser offers. All the elitist jerks that flame on newbs already use a parser.

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So there you go. We already have one. We don't need one added to the game.

I have yet to see a single MMO that has a built in parser. We don't need it, done.

It would be kind of yoshida/devs to include a kind of parser in game that wasnt just focussed on DPS and more importantly - ONLY - told you your own contribution.
So for example, a normal DPS role gets his/her dps meter plus a count for how many buffs they have landed on party members. Tanks can have a dps meter but the aggro and parry/block/avoid should be made more of a thing. Healers dont need anything - and I'm not saying this to say they shouldnt dps or should heal more its that their contribution is ENTIRELY dependant on the team's performance and duty mechanics.
I believe that give people more benefits to focus on besides dps and people will a) stop excluding certin job roles, b) stop harassing players who are doing their best, c) stop tanks (And healers) from prioritising dps over mechanics

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

So there you go. We already have one. We don't need one added to the game.

I have yet to see a single MMO that has a built in parser. We don't need it, done.

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THE MOST DANGEROUS PHRASE IN ANY LANGUAGE: “THAT’S THE WAY WE HAVE ALWAYS DONE IT”
Just because no one else has done it, doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

So there you go. We already have one. We don't need one added to the game.

I have yet to see a single MMO that has a built in parser. We don't need it, done.

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I'd actually rather have a built in parser (or something similar) for certain fights. Having a built in parser for the fights that matter could disincentivize (spelling?) having a parser for the fights that don't.

I love parsers and personally use them in order to figure out what my optimal rotations are and be the best damage dealer I can be, but after that I turn it off. Some people obsess over these things far too much and it does give them tunnel vision to a point where it makes them forget more important things like mechanics and that this is a video game and to have fun once in a while.

I would strongly be in favor of the game adding a parser for just your character so that you can see what you're doing and how to make it better, but it is not necessary at all to scrutinize what other players are doing. You can tell fairly easily without the use of a parser if someone isn't doing what they need to be doing. The numbers alone don't give you the whole story and so when someone looks a bit lower than they're supposed to because they were actually doing the mechanics it ends up making people stupid as the op said.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

So there you go. We already have one. We don't need one added to the game.

I have yet to see a single MMO that has a built in parser. We don't need it, done.

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That is because most mmo's support addons in some form that does that.

So far they kept saying addons will come so it is just a matter of time before one is more widespread.

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Originally Posted by dragorian

Who the heck need's an parser all you need to do is set up your battle log to show your dmg and do the math it's not hard heck you can also tell you is lacking or over compasating I'd this and as an whm I know my hps also I have never had an issue with others about dps or hps is low I set up my rot before hand for the content I'm doing and you can tell by just watching what the person is doing

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Battle log doesn't show DoT's and their ticks over time, and whether or not it was a critical tick. So no, this doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm pretty sure your WHM's battle log could have revealed that information as well, no parser required.

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And take 10 minutes trying to search for it?

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Originally Posted by Chasely

Your WHM couldn't tell they were hit by megaflare without a parser?

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Sorry if we didn't know the exact radius of the random first hit splash without any markers on the first day there. She got hit by one of those while running to stack.

Anyways, it was just to remind that parsing can be more than just DPS numbers. Your sarcastic points don't change that.

I would like to have a DPS monitoring tool built into the game that only provides information to a player about themselves. We do not need to see what other players are doing, damage-wise (what's the point.. calling them out on it only gets you reported) and would fix a lot of behavioral problems brought on by parsing.

I think it's important that the game provide players with data they need to be aware of in order to see if changes to their fighting style is improving or worsening their damage output. At a bare minimum the fighting-dummies set up around the game should be providing this information to any player attacking them. If people want to share their personal DPS data with others, that's their call, but the game itself should not advertise anyone's DPS to anyone but the owner of that damage.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

Battle log doesn't show DoT's and their ticks over time, and whether or not it was a critical tick. So no, this doesn't work.

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It's also a lot more cluttered and doesn't really show your DPS unless you time the fight, add up all the damage that's been done, and divide it.

So if you're trying to improve your DPS that's a lot of extra work to get something less accurate, and if you're running a static and trying to figure out who needs help with rotations, etc. to eke out that extra 100 dps or whatever you have to sit there doing math homework for twenty minutes reading your log, transcribing everyone's damage, and then doing the actual math.

It's just not a real solution. You might as well tell people to just keep track of the damage numbers popping off the mob's head. The only place it'd be useful is noticing if someone is just sitting there doing nothing or using a rotation that's incredibly incredibly wrong such that a quick glance over what they were doing in battle log tells you that--though in that case you can probably tell just by having any raid awareness at all.

Parse should be used as a learning tool to gage your own DPS to attempt to make improvements on your self if you wish, they should never be used to conddem another player,se need s to step in on this and start banning people for the used of 3rd party software, they didn't put up with it in FFXI online and it should not be tolerated here.

Parsers are great in the hands of intelligent people that want to use them as a tool for self-improvement or for the purpose of figuring out a problem with their static. Like any tool, it takes on a completely different use when you drop it into the hands of a complete idiot. Parsers don't make people stupid. Some people are just born that way.

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Originally Posted by Melondra

Parse should be used as a learning tool to gage your own DPS to attempt to make improvements on your self if you wish, they should never be used to conddem another player,se need s to step in on this and start banning people for the used of 3rd party software, they didn't put up with it in FFXI online and it should not be tolerated here.

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It's how the parser interacts with the log files. From what I hear, SE has no way of knowing if they are being used, because they are not interacting with the log files in such a way to be detectable from the server end. So in short, they can never stop it. Furthermore, they themselves have posted server first clears with high end raiding FC's which clearly show the usage of parsers. SE understands their use as a tool and have commented they wanted to officially sanction 3rd party add-ons starting with Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

the best DPS are able to put out good numbers WHILE handling mechanics.

Food for thought.

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Pretty much this. Remember, a MNK's greatest strength is keeping up GL3 and wailing on things.

Some advice. Let the tank know you'll grab a jagd doll thats by the right leg when it spawns. That way its easy to dps it down while getting beneficial dps using elixir field and howling fist on both the leg and the doll. Other benefit is you can grab and orange tether that spawns. I call it the MNK corner lol.

Also save shoulder tackle for an add far away if raid dps is slow and they need help burning it.. I main MNK and can easily pull 950-1050 in A4 easily without trying. Just be vocal, learn how to use form shift and know your class. I repeat, KNOW YOUR CLASS.

**PS: Don't be so overzealous with the orb grabbing. Grab one closest, (call outs are nice) and continue to do your thing. Work hard. Good luck!

Reply to M3an...

Ah there it is. The grow up, grow some thick skin excuse. Excuse to be rude, excuse to give advice where it is not wanted. Excuse to believe that a number makes you special. This is a game. There is not a life lesson to be learned here that's just silly. I pay my subscription. I log on, play and log off. Some of this feedback has been great and I have learned a lot, without being parsed. If someone is truly interested in helping then the last thing they are going to do is be a jerk. I was at no time offered any actual advice on improving. No one was telling me I could be better. I was just being told I did not meet the expectations of their parser. It went far beyond criticism and into the harassment category. I do however understand your viewpoint very well, every bully on the internet says the same thing.

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Originally Posted by ivyblue

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I don't understand. Since you pay, you can play the game your way. But it's not ok for others to play there way. Getting kicked from a group because you are wasting other peopled time is harassment? And BTW people aren't going to look to help you. Try asking for help. And if you want to play with those groups, put in the work to get on that level of play. And the I pay and play the way I want, and I don't care if I waste your time is rude.

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Originally Posted by Gyson

I would like to have a DPS monitoring tool built into the game that only provides information to a player about themselves. We do not need to see what other players are doing, damage-wise (what's the point.. calling them out on it only gets you reported) and would fix a lot of behavioral problems brought on by parsing.

I think it's important that the game provide players with data they need to be aware of in order to see if changes to their fighting style is improving or worsening their damage output. At a bare minimum the fighting-dummies set up around the game should be providing this information to any player attacking them. If people want to share their personal DPS data with others, that's their call, but the game itself should not advertise anyone's DPS to anyone but the owner of that damage.

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You have a fight in which all the DPSes should be doing at least 1k dps in order to kill the boss. One of them is doing 800dps. Nobody can see each other's result, then they start comparing numbers, the person with low DPS most likely will not admit it (let's be realistic here!). Maybe the player with low DPS is having just a silly problem with his rotation that someone else in the group could help him with, but he don't feel like he should be scrutinized by his peers due his low dmg, therefore he silence. But he has no idea how to improve, if he knew he wouldn't be doing such low dmg to begin with and since nobody else has access to the group's real number the group as a whole will fail, they won't kill the boss, will disband. Now, who's benefiting from personal parsers whose results only the the owner can see?

Tell the tanks to get the orbs. Your job is to do damage. Have low dps? You're not doing your job.

If your tank is still being a shitlord, find a way to get orbs, AND do high damage. Moving away from the boss for a split second does not put your dps in the toilet.

Just the other day I had someone trash talk (no, not giving constructive criticism) about a dps (healer main) because he was doing less dps than what they thought that they should in A3. That after having killed the boss fine two times without any wipe, and even skipping half a phase on both runs... Who cares if we take one minute more, at most, to kill that boss if we're killing it perfectly fine. Their alternative? Break up the party, GG. Honestly, I was as tank and I had already looted, but some people really know how to get to my nerves.

Some people are really stupid, and I'm sorry for saying this but it's the truth (ok, I'm not sorry, because it's the hard truth). And that's why I've always said that it's a BAD idea to let the masses access parsers, because for every player that uses them well you have at least ten that don't and create a bad mood in the game. I'm finding more and more people like that these days, as parsers seem to be becoming more popular for some reason.

Please, cut this now while you can by giving us a personal in-game parser somewhere (on the dummies, for instance, as suggested many times), and completely banning any kind of modification or add-on to the game.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

You should be self-conscious. This is a group activity. IRL, if you are on a team or at work and see that you are clearly under-performing compared to your colleagues, most human beings would attempt to better themselves so they don't feel the shame of letting the group down. Why can't this aspect of social behavior be extended to a game where you must socialize to succeed?

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That's horrible. No game should ever make someone feel shame at not meeting other's arbitrary expectations. wtf is that? You want that?

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Originally Posted by FaileExperiment

That's horrible. No game should ever make someone feel shame at not meeting other's arbitrary expectations. wtf is that? You want that?

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You can choose to not be part of it you know.

Also, multiplayer games rely on you know, people working together.

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Originally Posted by DkDerek

Tell the tanks to get the orbs. Your job is to do damage. Have low dps? You're not doing your job.

If your tank is still being a shitlord, find a way to get orbs, AND do high damage. Moving away from the boss for a split second does not put your dps in the toilet.

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Most orbs should be handled by a combination of ranged and healers.

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Originally Posted by Assirra

You can choose to not be part of it you know.

Also, multiplayer games rely on you know, people working together.

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absolutely. but people working together to accomplish something has nothing to do with shaming people, of all things in a game, and then thinking that is not only fine, but desirable. Totally messed up thinking. In fact, quite the opposite of being sociable and working together.

As a bard main, I like to keep an eye on my own DPS via the parse - in case I need to fend off baseless accusations of being the lowest DPS. If my numbers are consistent with what I expect, I'm usually happy even if I am a bit lower than everyone else. If someone is performing more poorly than I am and they're a DRG or a MNK, I laugh it off generally because they need to git gud.

But I NEVER share my parse results outside of my FC's facebook group, and even that inadvertently caused some drama because we have a free company with four bards in it so we can do some serious apples to apples in 8 man content.

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Originally Posted by FaileExperiment

That's horrible. No game should ever make someone feel shame at not meeting other's arbitrary expectations. wtf is that? You want that?

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It's called the real world, not the we don't keep score, everones a winner, and gets a participation trophy crappie forced on kids today. Now I have to put up with kids that expect to be carried and run crying reporting harassment because someone was mean. The truth is regardless of it being a video game these are real people and no one wants to carry dead weight.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

And? What's the point of saying this? Of course there's nothing inherently wrong with parsers. SE has one of their own. The problem is the community at large cannot be trusted to us them properly such that they do far far more harm then good.

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What is the point of this whole thread?

As long as square enix is going to have content that requires people to play top tier with little to no margin for error people are going to use parsers. Square enix can say they aren't allowed, you can dislike them all you want. The point of my comment was that parsers don't cause asshats to be asshats. If that tank didn't have a parser he still would have been just as vocal about the group's inability to clear content.

Someone had a negative player interaction in a game that requires no accountability for players to not be terrible people? You can blame it on whatever you want but as long as you play with random people this will be a relatively large risk you take.

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Originally Posted by Atrious

Parsers are nice, but give people tunnel vision. I used them in WoW forever. But I refuse to use them here. I enjoy this game for what it is.

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Then the people using them shouldn't be using them, obviously. It is fine to use a parser as long as its for personal progression, not to stare at.