Astrologian buffs confirmed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vlady

I did answer your questions. You just keep following up with new pointless questions. White mage didn't have a version of lustrate back pre xpansion and they do now so my issue is quelled.

You coming on a thread about Astros and flaming me then demanding I answer your question when you ignore my answer also claiming I am trying to alter the topic of the thread makes you a hypocrit yes.

---

I imagine most people on this forum would heavily disagree with the fact that you "answered anyone's question". But you're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

BTW, I didn't flame you, I made a comment to attempt to curb any discussion going towards an DPS discussion. Then you decided to flame me first because maybe I attacked the integrity of one of your "OMG WHM IS GOING TO DIE" friends by first saying that no one listened to me then indirectly telling me that I'm a troll to someone else. You should seriously consider looking into a mirror since you're basically acting like a hypocrite as well as a troll at this point. I just decided to curb stomp your attempt and try to bring the discussion back towards what this thread was intended.

[EDIT]

I am going to say we can agree to disagree all you want. I don't want to derail this thread anymore than it already has been de-railed because of your own personal dislike for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Heinel

To say on topic, while it's still unclear what sort of buff they were implying, at least it sounds like they have outright said that ASTs will not get potency enhancers like Divine Seal. The changes they are going for will be "astrologian-like", whatever that means. From the tone, it appears they still don't want ASTs to be strong healers, and let their utility be the focus.

---

I'd much rather they buff the cards to provide more utility, or hell, make it so the cards themselves heal as well.

If AST's card buffs also healed for 1% of HP every second of their duration, that would make them good enough that the AST would be fine. Then, cards like Ewer and Spire would be more desirable for their 20 sec duration, despite their other effects being a big pile of "meh".

Even tho astro is getting buffs a lot of ppl will be like
- "why u let me down " ,
-"i'm disappointed in SE"
-"SE broke astro".
All cuz they want astro to be a whm or sch lol.
Just be thankful that yoshi is looking into this and is giving it a buff. May be awesome, may be really small / slight tweaks but anything is welcomed. As long as it doesn't create a bug on astro then there's nothing to worry about lol.

You asked about white mage and scholar being a pair. I answered why. You went over each spell in comparison. I responded to your questions about the spells. I discussed why white mage should be the supreme single and multi target healer. Then you swapped to your rant about since I did not raid I could not understand why a white mage and scholar is the best combo for raids. I respond if that is the case then why did SE set up the scenario for when two scholars are healing together unless they are coordinating then they are basically at half power. You did not answer that question but then retorted to how you and your server are parts of world firsts and I called you an elitist and started ignoring your questions since you did not answer mine about why doesnt SE let scholars stack since they are on the level of white mages.

And I do not even look and memorize names. If anything you are someone who has something against me or you would not spend your 700+ posts and wasting your own time just to do search of all of my posts to find inconsistencies just to make a point I do not even get? If you want to stick to topic that is fine by me but interjecting yourself then shooting off a one liner trying to invalidate me then spamming link after link of previous topics not even relevant to this topic does show your bitter and small side. But as you said if you do not want to derail this thread then after this neither do I.

I feel that a healer should have issues dealing damage to instances that they do not fully outgear on. Astro is a semi challenging job because it does not have the emergancy buttons that other healers do not have and once upon a time that was the way that healers in mmo's were made in mind with. Sustaining a group but not being able to be a counter to compensate for making a ton of mistakes. When we get to the point where we can dps with ease and sustain healing then maybe it is time that mana be tightened a bit. If you as a healer dps for half a fight you should be oom. Just how I feel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vlady

I feel that a healer should have issues dealing damage to instances that they do not fully outgear on. Astro is a semi challenging job because it does not have the emergancy buttons that other healers do not have and once upon a time that was the way that healers in mmo's were made in mind with. Sustaining a group but not being able to be a counter to compensate for making a ton of mistakes. When we get to the point where we can dps with ease and sustain healing then maybe it is time that mana be tightened a bit. If you as a healer dps for half a fight you should be oom. Just how I feel.

---

I actually agree. Despite their shortcomings, I like the direction AST is heading. Lesser healing potential means you need to focus on being efficient and using your skills wisely. There just has to be a trade off for increased difficulty. I hope with the fix, ASTs can provide more utilities through their cards rather than, say, 20 potency increase on combust and combust II. Just please don't turn AST into a pseudo WHM that likes to chuck cards once in a while.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vlady

-Snip-

---

I can accept that.

Just two points of advice:

1) If you're going to state a highly controversial and unpopular opinion, be prepared to defend yourself and be prepared to defend yourself well. Velox managed to state everything about why SCH was more powerful than WHM within a single post - something you were unable to answer with satisfaction after 10-20 posts in reply to various posters. Most of the comments within your first paragraph was not directed to me, but directed to myself and several other posters and none of us were satisfied with your answers. The comment about my server being world first was in retort to your comment about how "you asked various people on your server and their opinion is this, therefore it must be true" and I countered by making an equally outlandish claim to show you how foolish your comment was. Apparently that subtly got lost on you.

2) If you're going to state an opinion, at least fact check yourself and be prepared to accept that you can be wrong. Your comment about how Holy spamming WHMs needed a BRD to play Ballad constantly for them to sustain the power of Holy through a dungeon run was completely off and you got lambasted for it. If you had graciously accepted that you were wrong, there would be more respect for you.

Good bye.

My problem with AST at the moment(though im low level yet) and from what i have seen, is that AST tries to basically copy SCH or WHM depending on stance, but doesnt become as good in any. But yeah you have cards and that massive AoE stun, but then the cards are very random and complicated, and it feels like they are sometimes not that.. powerful. Mana is also a little bit of problem, but thats fine, its quite comparable to WHM from what i saw. It shouldn't really be as mana-full as SCH, but maybe slight buff on that mana regen skill would be great

I have no raiding experience on my Astrologian, and limited Raid experience (pre nerfs First Coil ;) ) on my Scholar. Getting that out of the way for credibility-sake.

I thoroughly enjoy how attentive I have to be on my Astrologian so far. One thing I did not like as my Scholar was that MP was a non-issue. As long as I spent Aetherflow well, I didn't ever really need to look at my MP. This has definitely NOT been the case on my AST, and I am greatly enjoying it. On the flip-side... if there is no perk/benefit to bringing an AST over a SCH/WHM to a Raid, then why fix was isn't broken just to appease the playstyle wants of another player at the expense of the rest of the raid due to the shortcomings presented when you have a watered down SCH/WHM with some impotent RNG buffs?

I LOVE that Yoshi-P is addressing it prior to 3.1, and greatly admire his want to make these changes in the spirit of the Astrologian playstyle, which I ADORE!
He is on the right track... now lets buckle up and see where it leads?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HWF-7force

On the flip-side... if there is no perk/benefit to bringing an AST over a SCH/WHM to a Raid, then why fix was isn't broken just to appease the playstyle wants of another player

---

What? Explain please, if there is no reason (IE consent decent if not good buffs) to take astro over WHM/SCH then you are limiting their use. It means your static is fine with a healer that does less dps/healing then their counterparts without a reason to take them (IE decent buffs). Not trying to get the healing up, more of want more consent buffs so that astro has it's own role and not just worse SCH/WHM. Since as of right now can astro perform healer in all the content, yes, but will it be able to perform in savage? Still no answer and YohsiP tends to think that it might be put on the wayside for the reason that the buffs are not strong enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justinjarjar

What? Explain please, if there is no reason (IE consent decent if not good buffs) to take astro over WHM/SCH then you are limiting their use. It means your static is fine with a healer that does less dps/healing then their counterparts without a reason to take them (IE decent buffs). Not trying to get the healing up, more of want more consent buffs so that astro has it's own role and not just worse SCH/WHM. Since as of right now can astro perform healer in all the content, yes, but will it be able to perform in savage? Still no answer and YohsiP tends to think that it might be put on the wayside for the reason that the buffs are not strong enough.

---

You didn't quote that entire sentence, so lost context.
I said
"On the flip-side... if there is no perk/benefit to bringing an AST over a SCH/WHM to a Raid, then why fix was isn't broken just to appease the playstyle wants of another player at the expense of the rest of the raid due to the shortcomings presented when you have a watered down SCH/WHM with some impotent RNG buffs?"

Point being, you would be appeasing the play-style wants of another player at the expense of the rest of the raid DUE TO THE SHORTCOMINGS of the Job as it stands.

I then went on to point out how I admire that they are addressing the Job, and in a way that coincides with the playstyle of the Astrologian. That is a good step in the right direction.

To further clarify::

Raids that currently run a SCH/WHM combo would have no need to "Fix what isn't broken" with their current setup by inserting an AST.
Poor choice of phrase, perhaps? But hopefully that clears the confusion up.

Is English your first langue? Your comments make no sense.

More of using "was" (what?)... but as of right now astro buffs are not worth the loss of DPS/Healing pot of SCH/WHM, which is the problem. You contradict yourself as well, saying they should not then next Paragraph saying they should. In a writing sense your whole comment is nothing since you contradict yourself. I doubt astro is going to be as good as WHM/SCH for shields or pure healing pot, more of the comment form Yoshi sounded more like buffs to cards (maybe stance dancing the translation is not clear there).

This thread is dead now. Thanks to u guys. U need a show just for u. And I think an entire season will not be enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justinjarjar

snip

---

Yeah, what/was is clearly a typo there.
At the moment, the only logical reason a group would bring an AST over WHM/SCH is because the players wants to play one. So their decision would be purely in the spirit of appeasing the playstyle wants of another player at the expense of the rest of the group due to the 'watered down' "WHM/SCH w/ impotent buffs deriving from excessive RNG" nature off the Job.

There is not much of a contradiction there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eraqus

This thread is dead now. Thanks to u guys. U need a show just for u. And I think an entire season will not be enough.

---

I think it was already, just wait to tuesday to see the changes anyways. This is just people speculating, which the only thing that might be a weird change would be stance dancing (still might just be a weird translation) since we know card buffs are incoming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HWF-7force

Yeah, what/was is clearly a typo there.
At the moment, the only logical reason a group would bring an AST over WHM/SCH is because the players wants to play one. So their decision would be purely in the spirit of appeasing the playstyle wants of another player at the expense of the rest of the group due to the 'watered down' "WHM/SCH w/ impotent buffs deriving from excessive RNG" nature off the Job.

There is not much of a contradiction there.

---

and my point was that people will leave astro for WHM/SCH if no change is implemented ( I will not but a good chunk will). But please make sure what you type makes sense before submitting, the whole comment is all over the place.

Still not entirely sure why you chose to jump on me like you did.
I have no issue following what I typed. I am sorry that was not the case for you or whoever else.

I sincerely hope they made adequate adjustments. I love the play-style, I just couldn't justify swapping a WHM or SCH for one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justinjarjar

I think it was already, just wait to tuesday to see the changes anyways. This is just people speculating, which the only thing that might be a weird change would be stance dancing (still might just be a weird translation) since we know card buffs are incoming.

---

Where did u read that the cards will be buffed? Wow

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eraqus

Where did u read that the cards will be buffed? Wow

---

..... the translated live letter....... "astrologians will be able to use Spread while not in combat, or shortening the recast time for Shuffle. " Direct from it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justinjarjar

..... the translated live letter....... "astrologians will be able to use Spread while not in combat, or shortening the recast time for Shuffle. " Direct from it.

---

Confirmed. The change to Spread alone makes me squee with joy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HWF-7force

Confirmed. The change to Spread alone makes me squee with joy.

---

and srry dude, you seem chill, just your post was a bit grammatically difficult to follow, glad you are excited about astro as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justinjarjar

and srry dude, you seem chill, just your post was a bit grammatically difficult to follow, glad you are excited about astro as well.

---

I get that a lot. Super bad ADHD and a job that requires extreme multi-tasking all day. I am supremely scatterbrained most of the time.
I appreciate and accept the apology man. Healer Solidarity!

Ghislain. The statement about needing mana is not entirely inaccurate. Gear disparity and era of reference also has to be accounted for. Palace speed runs early when I 90 was peak did require ballad at times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galdous

Ghislain. The statement about needing mana is not entirely inaccurate. Gear disparity and era of reference also has to be accounted for. Palace speed runs early when I 90 was peak did require ballad at times.

---

*Rubs temples* I apologize for the continued derail of this thread.

Gladous, I know you're trying to help, but this is just adding more fuel to the fire and I'll explain to you why:

First, this is the comment from Vlady regarding WHMs, Holy, and BRDs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vlady

Holy relies heavily on a bard to maintain momentum. Having mana issues without a bard ballad to maintain momentum will just mean larger periods of rest between pulls.

---

This comment was made April 2nd, 2015.

1) Gear disparity must indeed be accounted for, I will concede that. With that being said, I've run WP Speedruns on i90 WHM with a WAR / BRD / BLM and did not need to rely on Ballads. We used Foe's much more often with the occasional tick of Ballads between some of the heavier pulls. I didn't need to heavily rely on Ballads as was indicated by Vlady. However, other WHMs might and of course a low ilvl WHM won't be able to go ham with Holy like a high ilvl WHM would be able to.

Also note there is no context to ilvl, or reference of era in Vlady's original comment.

2) I reiterate - Vlady's comment was made on April 2nd, 2015 - a time when we're all preparing for Heavensward and ilvls were capping at i130. If he's trying to make reference to an era of i90 speed runs, which is in an era 40 ilvls lower and about 3-4 major patches beforehand, this reinforces how out of touch he is with the WHM meta at the time of the comment.

Again, I know you're trying to help, but it didn't work the way you intended it too.

And again, I apologize for the continual de-rail of this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Even tho astro is getting buffs a lot of ppl will be like
- "why u let me down " ,
-"i'm disappointed in SE"
-"SE broke astro".
All cuz they want astro to be a whm or sch lol.
Just be thankful that yoshi is looking into this and is giving it a buff. May be awesome, may be really small / slight tweaks but anything is welcomed. As long as it doesn't create a bug on astro then there's nothing to worry about lol.

---

I'll take any buffs to start with, but AST still needs some SERIOUS love if it's going to be competing with SCH/WHM on real progression content.

I don't want AST to be a SCH or WHM. I want AST to be a truly alternative healing style which contributes by ending fights faster because of how much more quickly they can move things along, and really, that's what all of the card buffs at least AIM to do, though few of them really succeed at this.

Hmm. I am not trying to help per say but hope you and vlad are discussing something for the most part with consuls ions and assumptions not really found. None of you are either wrong nor right when theory crafting is not involved. He feels asto fits his playstyle and challenge. You think they need stronger heals and mana enduramce. Both views is not pushing at each other over.

Stupid auto correction. I meant jumping to conclusions

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichardButte

I want AST to be a truly alternative healing style which contributes by ending fights faster because of how much more quickly they can move things along, and really, that's what all of the card buffs at least AIM to do, though few of them really succeed at this.

---

I think this is a really great way to put it and if the buffs we get from SE are done right I think they can do that. It will also make a good AST really stand out with good choices and quick decision making.

For now in the new hotfixes there aren't any AST buff yet.

I thought we were getting buffs before Alex savage. Sadness intensifies.

Yeah absolutely. Tbh I wasn't confidence about these hotfixes but Alex Savage will be released I think next week so.... If it's not today's hotfixes I wonder when....

We should make a protest thread!

I'm dissapointed :( was waiting for this buff ...

There was a post staying the buffs will be implemented the day Savage starts so maintenance before it opens.

I think that buffs are coming next week with the patch 3.05. So we will also read in the patch notes what they changed. This was an hotfix...

Better don't set your expectations too high. We have no idea what kind of buff it will bring anyways. *look at a random bard on the street*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galdous

Hmm. I am not trying to help per say but hope you and vlad are discussing something for the most part with consuls ions and assumptions not really found. None of you are either wrong nor right when theory crafting is not involved. He feels asto fits his playstyle and challenge. You think they need stronger heals and mana enduramce. Both views is not pushing at each other over.

---

I don't think I ever made a comment about them needing stronger heals or better mana endurance.

I have made a comment that I believe AST need better emergency buttons, but I am okay with their baseline heal kit. I also made mention that their MP regeneration abilities are lacking compared to WHM and SCH but is partially made up by the fact they have lower MP costs on their spells and can be assisted via use of Ewer and/or Spear.

At the core, I like AST toolkit but I do believe it needs some buffs in the proper areas to make it competitive with their healing counterparts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mhikail

PLEASE MAKE IT WHERE YOU DON'T SHUFFLE THE SAME DAMN CARD.
Please, I beg you!

---

YES PLEASE!!!! YEEEEEES!!!!!

Yesterday I drew spear 8 times after another!!!!!!!!!
That really sucked xD I didn't believe, and still don't ^^

Yeah but in the Q&A Yoshida said that they will not wait for Alex Savage...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I don't think I ever made a comment about them needing stronger heals or better mana endurance.

I have made a comment that I believe AST need better emergency buttons, but I am okay with their baseline heal kit. I also made mention that their MP regeneration abilities are lacking compared to WHM and SCH but is partially made up by the fact they have lower MP costs on their spells and can be assisted via use of Ewer and/or Spear.

At the core, I like AST toolkit but I do believe it needs some buffs in the proper areas to make it competitive with their healing counterparts.

---

Well when I spoke about mana should be a precious commodity you said I spoke rhetoric so if mana is not an issue what are you trying to say?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galdous

Well when I spoke about mana should be a precious commodity you said I spoke rhetoric so if mana is not an issue what are you trying to say?

---

As I mentioned in the past, that was intended to stop the discussion going down a discussion about healer DPS since you mentioned:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galdous

Mana should be a precious commodity. Honestly if healers have enough mana to dps without a hitch in content they do not overgear then mana costs should be tweaked higher.

---

Your second sentence implied MP costs should go up because you believe healers shouldn't have the function to DPS. My statement was meant to prevent the discussion from going in that direction as there was no need to bring up that over discussed topic anymore than it should. My statement was not about actual MP costs.

Why say they won't wait until Savage then not release it before Savage? D: What a tease.