I chose BRD for swift gameplay, if I wanted to cast I would have chosen a Mage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FateAudax

Oh look, another guy who isn't main-ing a Bard, and doesn't understand the whole situation, and thinks that this whole issue is solely about pushing DPS.

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You don't need to be rude. I was merely stating that I liked how it looked. Also, it doesn't seem that you even watched the entire video. That video wasn't so much as pushing DPS, but moreso that Bards can still be mobile under Minuet.

Please actually watch the video before jumping to conclusions, m'kay?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gallus

What do I have to understand, that stuff is hardcasted under minuette and instant cast with minuette off? Don't need to level BRD to 60 for that. It might take some time getting used to it, but it will get to a point where you won't even have to think "now I can move" or "now I can't because there's minuette on". From what I've seen, good BRDs are pulling very nice amounts of damage, my static bard was around 900, even 1k at times at Alexander...that's brutally high if you consider you get to keep like 90% of your damage in those scenarios where you have to move and everyone either loses 100% of their damage or most of it (e.g. Ravana EX everyone getting chased by those 4 balls), not to mention foe's requiem, paeon, ballad, etc.

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I just shake my head whenever I see people have VERY strong opinions on things they know nothing about.

Yes, you kinda do need to have Bard at least at 60 AND have spent some time to learn it to actually understand how Bards are supposed to play like and why WM has "broken" the class's core mechanics.

It's called credibility.

As a seasoned Bard, all I can say is that the changes to Bard isn't just something simple like "Oh noes! I have to stand still for 2 seconds now to use the same skills!"

It's more of like if you've main-ed Zangief for your entire Street Fighter career, and then in one single patch, Zangief now plays like Guile. He still has the exact same techniques, but to pull them off, you are now forced to play like Guile.

I ain't explaining the details to you, because if you TRULY knew how Bards work, you'd immediately understand the GAMEPLAY (not DPS) problems plaguing Bard right now.


EDIT:

To all non-Bards in here claiming that Bards need to "git gud" or that Bards "are fine," leave now. You are completely clueless in the subject matter, and you have zero credibility. If you actually have Bard at 60, then you have a case. Otherwise, your claims are null and void.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

You don't need to be rude. I was merely stating that I liked how it looked. Also, it doesn't seem that you even watched the entire video. That video wasn't so much as pushing DPS, but moreso that Bards can still be mobile under Minuet.

Please actually watch the video before jumping to conclusions, m'kay?

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Watched it and it doesn't mean anything if there is still cast time while using WM. Actually this issue is as simple as: Bard isn't Bard with cast bar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Intellion

problems plaguing Bard right now.

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only plaguing bad bards.

we have been over this you have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FateAudax

Bard isn't Bard with cast bar.

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yes it is get over it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FateAudax

Yea whatever bro. Can't stop nosy people now can we?

Edit: I forgot to mention your argument which I have quoted is no better either. Where's the substance of your example?

I speak for myself but I'm sure there are Bard players who shares my sentiment. I chose Bard because I like to move. It was a class/job which was introduced with mobility. I chose it because of mobility. Raided all the coils and have been relevant in hardcore contents with said mobility but now we've been robbed from it.

Yea, I know I am not required to use it but without using WM, I can't say that I am pushing out optimal damage as EA+Barrage is a big deal. So I am forced to use WM if I want to be relevant in hardcore contents post 3.0.

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You choose it because you like to move? None of your gameplay (unlike classes with positionals, which can move while attacking btw) involves movement. In 2.0 you can do w/e you want and still do the same DPS as if you were standing still, which means movement had no effect on gameplay. Which means lack of movement with WM also doesn't change gameplay. Do you enjoy running in circles like an idiot during boss fights or something? That sounds like a personal thing, rather than it being related to the class.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

only plaguing bad bards.

we have been over this you have no idea what you are talking about.



yes it is get over it.

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Oh look, isn't it a surprise that you aren't main-ing a Bard. How about you quit your class and main a Bard and show us a recording of you playing it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

only plaguing bad bards.

we have been over this you have no idea what you are talking about.




yes it is get over it.

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How cute. A non-Bard with no credibility spouting some nonsense and passing it as fact.

I don't think you understood:

You have no credibility. Your claims are null-and-void.

If you think otherwise, get your Bard to 60 and come back.

Now please kindly leave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FateAudax

Oh look, isn't it a surprise that you aren't main-ing a Bard. How about you quit your class and main a Bard and show us a recording of you playing it?

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i don't play a class but a job, secondly a vid has already been posted showing you all up.

bard = songs :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Intellion

snip

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aww how cute back to you're not 60 like me, when you provide nothing you just make yourself look silly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FateAudax

well, no surprise that ffxiv's community is going to the dumps with condescending and sanctimonious people like you around acting all high and mighty just because your class ain't affected.

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no class is affected because we play jobs :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

You choose it because you like to move? None of your gameplay (unlike classes with positionals, which can move while attacking btw) involves movement. In 2.0 you can do w/e you want and still do the same DPS as if you were standing still, which means movement had no effect on gameplay. Which means lack of movement with WM also doesn't change gameplay. Do you enjoy running in circles like an idiot during boss fights or something? That sounds like a personal thing, rather than it being related to the class.

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So playing a game during my non-working hours isn't a personal thing? Now, correct me if I'm wrong. Do people play games for other people's enjoyment or themselves?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

i don't play a class but a job, secondly a vid has already been posted showing you all up.

bard = songs :)

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well, no surprise that ffxiv's community is going to the dumps with condescending and sanctimonious people like you around acting all high and mighty just because your class ain't affected.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

i don't play a class but a job, secondly a vid has already been posted showing you all up.

bard = songs :)



aww how cute back to you're not 60 like me, when you provide nothing you just make yourself look silly.

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I don't think you understood. :)

You have no credibility. Your baseless nonsense carries no meaning and is not welcome in a feedback thread.

If you want to receive a proper debate, get your Bard to 60 and then come back.

Thank you for understanding, and have a good day.

P.S.

Bards = DPS and Songs. Fact. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Intellion

Bards = DPS and Songs. Fact. :)

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congrats you can dps and sing :)

I'll just leave this here. <3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

congrats you can dps and sing :)

I'll just leave this here. <3

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No need for congrats.

It's what we proper Bards do.

By the way, I don't know what that video is supposed to prove, but whatever. That guy likes being a Bow Mage. More power to him, I guess?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

congrats you can dps and sing :)

I'll just leave this here. <3

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He's on a level 50 striking dummy with no defense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Intellion

By the way, I don't know what that video is supposed to prove, but whatever. That guy likes being a Bow Mage. More power to him, I guess?

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well see this what a good bard looks like :) you even agreed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raiker

He's on a level 50 striking dummy with no defense.

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Shh... don't ruin their dream.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

well see this what a good bard looks like :) you even agreed

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Oh, you're the judges of Bards now? What's your qualification when it comes to discerning good and bad Bards apart from having a brain and the ability to type?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

congrats you can dps and sing :)

I'll just leave this here. <3

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That doesnt take into account the need to move or anything either...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FateAudax

Watched it and it doesn't mean anything if there is still cast time while using WM.

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Eh, honestly, I don't care about your take on it. You don't like how it plays and I like how it looks. Bard looks pretty fun to me. Not to everyone's personal taste, I'd wager.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vespar

That doesnt take into account the need to move or anything either...

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but it entirely does as you see him moving around quite a bit :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raiker

He's on a level 50 striking dummy with no defense.

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oh no guys if you parse yourself on a stiking dummy you're doing it wrong!?!

seriously all jobs use a striking dummy to test out their rotations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

but it entirely does as you see him moving around quite a bit :)




oh no guys if you parse yourself on a stiking dummy you're doing it wrong!?!

seriously all jobs use a striking dummy to test out their rotations.

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"Test their rotations."

Yes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

but it entirely does as you see him moving around quite a bit :)

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Here is the original video if you're interested.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Intellion

If Bards like Minuet, more power to them. Doesn't necessarily mean that I agree to Minuet.

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when bard because a class i will agree with you :)

it does if you want to be a good bard.

not using it is nothing but a dps loss no matter what.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Eh, honestly, I don't care about your take on it. You don't like how it plays and I like how it looks. Bard looks pretty fun to me. Not to everyone's personal taste, I'd wager.

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Neither do I when it comes to personal preference. You like bow mage? Good for you, your preference. I do not like bow mage, my preference. Forum is for opinions, you post because you like it while I post because I do not like it. I'm sure this is pretty easy to understand.

However, undeniably there are trolls in the forums such as this guy here who is condescending and being a douche.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

yes it is get over it.

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Luckily for us, all that matters is what the Japanese Bards are concerned about and luckily their concern aligns with ours :) Hence, SE is currently still monitoring our job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

when bard because a class i will agree with you :)

it does if you want to be a good bard.

not using it is nothing but a dps loss no matter what.

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Oh, if only the Bard issue was actually THAT simple. I wish it was.

But it's not.

Just shows how much credibility you have. Oh right, none.

Another null-and-void claim. If you think your claims are not worthless and that you're a Bard "expert," prove it.

The first step would be knowing the class, which would require you to spend time with it and get it to 60. No Lv 60 Bard = No credibility on subject matter.

Come back to me once you have actual credentials.

Good day. :)

Alright, since it's come to having the credentials, I'll step in: I went from BRD to MCH almost right away. While fundamentally the same, they're also different enough.

Some key points:
- I still don't need to move much.
- Using Gauss, and the proc-stacking rotation I created (1-2-1-3-2-3) truly does increase my DPS. Also works even without Gauss but to obviously less potency.
- I could argue it generally takes less than a GCD to move yourself out of harm's way (under normal circumstances), and with 1.5 sec cast times the DPS loss for having to move is negligible.
- While the damage increase IS good, it's not always practical to use Gauss/Minuet.

I would say it's less "L2P" and more learn to adapt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Intellion

=Come back to me once you have actual credentials.

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it is that simple seriously, you have said nothing to refute anything but i am lvl 60.

you can repeat that 1000000 times won't make me wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Intellion

The first step would be knowing the class

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archer is a class bard is a job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

it is that simple seriously, you have said nothing to refute anything but i am lvl 60.

you can repeat that 1000000 times won't make me wrong.

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Doesn't make you right either Mr.Troll :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

it is that simple seriously, you have said nothing to refute anything but i am lvl 60.

you can repeat that 1000000 times won't make me wrong.

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You're a level 24 Archer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raiker

You're a level 24 Archer.

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oh look another without an actual argument :D hello

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FateAudax

Doesn't make you right either Mr.Troll :)

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haven't shown any proof that i am wrong sooooo yes it does :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

it is that simple seriously, you have said nothing to refute anything but i am lvl 60.

you can repeat that 1000000 times won't make me wrong.

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Sorry. Doubling-down does not support your case.

Having strong opinions on something but no knowledge on it is bad enough. Adding a "I'm right, you're wrong!" mentality only harms your case. Especially when you can't even prove what makes you "right."

Oh, right. Because you don't have credibility. Null-and-void, null-and-void, etc. etc.

Of course, unless proven otherwise with actual experience.

Sorry, but I can't give you a proper discussion. Not now. You're not ready.

Get your Bard to 60, and we can talk for real.

Good day! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

oh look another without an actual argument :D hello

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Not arguing. I quite literally stated the obvious. I'm not arguing with you, stating "You're a 24 Archer."

Just telling you what you are.

Cute that you're trying to grasp at straws by the way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Intellion

Having strong opinions on something but no knowledge on it is bad enough. Adding a "I'm right, you're wrong!" mentality only harms your case. Especially when you can't even prove what makes you "right."

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you mean exactly what you're doing but with proof?!

because i have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raiker

Not arguing. I quite literally stated the obvious. I'm not arguing with you, stating "You're a 24 Archer."

Just telling you what you are.

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i was just saying it does absolutely nothing for you :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raiker

Cute that you're trying to grasp at straws by the way.

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actually i am not as i have argued my case and the only rebuttal is you aren't 60 like me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

you mean exactly what you're doing but with proof?!

because i have.

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Your proof lies with a singular video, of a bard, on a level 50 striking dummy, jumping from ladder to ladder like a circus animal.

This is coming from a level 24 Archer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raiker

Your proof lies with a singular video, of a bard, on a level 50 striking dummy, jumping from ladder to ladder like a circus animal.

This is coming from a level 24 Archer.

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once again you use level 24 archer as your go to as if that disproves the video.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

you mean exactly what you're doing but with proof?!

because i have.

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You have proof?

Being a Lv 24 Archer is not "proof." Try again.

Saying that "You can't prove me wrong!" when you haven't even proven yourself "right" is not "proof." Try again.


Allow me to elaborate:

You have no credibility. You are not right, unless you prove otherwise with hard experience, numbers, and so on. Your claims are effectively null-and-void.

Good day! Come back again soon when you actually learn how to "Bard!" :)

I...am having a difficult time trying to understand the contradictory positions being posted in this thread. On the one hand, bards are saying that they don't like Minuet and having cast times added to their moves, which I get. The simplest solution would then be to not USE Minuet, but then posters gripe that they're not doing maximum DPS that way, to which the obvious response would be, "well yes, that's the trade off for losing your vastly superior mobility, do you think it's fair that you can run circles around mechanics while most (if not all) other jobs are penalized?", to which posters are THEN saying, "it's not about the DPS, it's about the playstyle", which...takes us back to the beginning of the argument again.

If the general feeling was, "we want BRD DPS to scale proportionately from level 50 to 60 without fundamentally changing our gameplay", then I'd assume it does without using Minuet (though the Barrage change might be a nerf outside of Minuet; idk). But it seems like people wanted a DPS increase while still maintaining superior mobility, which seems a bit imbalanced to me.

Can a BRD main possibly clarify what exactly it is that they're looking for, to me?

'I'm level 60, I'm level 60, I'm level 60'.
Let's face it the real good Bards aren't crying over not being able to do cartwheels around the boss doing their full rotation, now you have to dodge AOE like everyone else *Gasp*
Either adapt to the playstyle or expect to get kicked when tanks/healers are doing more DPS than you because you wanna run around with ants in your pants and not use the tools given to you.

Let me add (typing from my phone, so no editing), that no, I don't yet have Bard to 60, nor do I need it to know what I'm talking about. Having never moved much outside of mechanical-necessity, Minuet would NOT be a huge game changer for me. And no, I DON'T even have Minuet yet, but I did the 30-60 MCH, so yes I got the "complete fundamental change" at one point too. . . Nothing changed at all. Took some adjusting to, naturally, but largely what I do, and how I do it is still the same.

Perhaps it's due to having leveled healers and casters, or just a generally good sense of adaptation? Still, don't discredit someone simply for not being that job, not when their job is built on your "complete fundamental change".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Intellion

snip

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as said earlier repeating this over and over doesn't help your case :)

Here's the thing guys, BRD will most likely keep being that mandatory job every static wants to have (at least one). It has too many raid wide tools that bring too much onto the table, and for reference... our BRD pulls around 900-1k damage in most alexander fights, that's just very damn high given the utility and extra caster damage (foe) it brings. You can choose between a BLM and a SMN (SMN prob being in a sweeter spot atm), a MNK, DRG and a NIN (DRG being in a sweeter spot atm) but between BRD and MCH? I don't think there is even contest...

So...I feel you guys will keep being mandatory. Imo jobs like MNK, DRK, MCH or even BLM have many more reasons to be less happy than BRDs in 3.0.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FateAudax

well, no surprise that ffxiv's community is going to the dumps with condescending and sanctimonious people like you around acting all high and mighty just because your class ain't affected.

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This comment here, is just killing me. Like most of the Bards here are not being just as rude and ridiculous, even cursing at people. Don't act like he's the only one being condescending because he's really not.

I may or may not touch on the changes to Bard in a bit if I feel like it. I'm not sure I will though since any Bards who enjoy the changes, like myself, you ignore and anyone who doesn't have Bard to 60, you also ignore. I'm only at 59, so does that make my opinion invalid too?

You say this is a discussion but it's not. You can have discussions with people even if they don't main the job. Maybe they have talked about it extensively with people in their static who do, maybe they're commenting on an alt. You don't know.

But that's enough for now.