to Yoshi P. (Please read)

Rutelor is right.

There is a huge portion of FFXI players that aren't in their teens and 20s anymore and now have RL responsibilities.

FFXIV allows those of us who don't have time to play as much to still enjoy a FF MMO and kudos to Yoshi and Tanaka for sticking with that vision.

The problem is that there are a large group of FFXI players who still want to play hardcore, and FFXI no longer gives them that experience thanks to Abyssea. So they come to FFXIV demanding it.

As much as FFXIV needs fixing, the same could be said about FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Kairyu

ANYTHING IS UNACCEPTABLE AND WILL LEAD TO THE DEATH OF THIS GAME.

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Feels like this is said more times than nessecary.

I agreed with your parts about bringing back XI grind parties, I loved them too.
And Dynamis/Nyzul/Beseiged/Sea/Sky etc.

Unfortunately: To compete with modern MMOs, they need quests which offer exp rewards, because now some people feel this is the 'norm' and without it 'this game is doomed.' Which could be said about a lot of other 'norms'

Just give it some time, XI was the culmination of multiple years work before it was anything like what we remember of it. You spoke of the level cap being 75. Some people may remember it as 50, and now it's up to 90. When XIVs cap is inevitably raised, will future people remember anything about what it was, or will they think of how awesome it IS and how better it can get?

Also: The first two words, and the last one.

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Originally Posted by Kairyu

To all: love.

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TOO MUCH XI .... can't breathe.
Play xi if you want, i wont stop you, but please refrain form saying "xi was so good, please make xiv into a copy of it!" cause thats exactly what im hearing. Im not saying you don't have any points, but im not able to read em when all you do is say "xi .. xi .. xi ..xi" etc. every other sentence got xi in it.

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JUST TO PUT THIS IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS, US FF FANS ARE HARDCORE AND WANT HARDCORE CONTENT NOT THE SAME CONTENT IN OTHER MMOS.

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Like... go die in a fire?

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Originally Posted by Travesty

While it's absurd to want the exact same game(which I don't think anyone is suggesting), it's pretty reasonable for people to want a similar experience.

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Not me , it's like watching old reruns once in a while you'll watch and chuckle hahahaha but..it's time to move onto another channel / show.

On the popular topic of level grinding.....

Instanced leveling (when done correctly )can bring 1 thing that grinding in open world doesn't.... Changing Tactics!

Lets make the reference to everyone's favorite grind game...FFXI!!!!!

What did we grind on? hmm?

Crabs?Little pink birdies? Cute mandys?

why? why did we kill these adorable little creatures? Why didnt we say...hey i'm level 70!! I'm 5 levels from the cap!! I'm GONNA GO KICK A DRAGON'S ASS!! Go away little wimpy creature...go be some dunes party training dumpy...for I have "mastered" my job..and don't need the likes of you anymore!!

BECAUSE THEY WERE LITTLE TO NO THREAT! They were easy mode! Tigers did that paralyze move...and burst damage.. ouch my tank.... Big manticores...big wyverns...bombs...tonberrys.... all were scary!! they were hard!!

Now lets look again at instances ( AGAIN that are designed properly )

Your in an instance...lets say you can't really avoid any mobs... you have to fight your way through!

first room... has jelly, flan like, mobs...hmm what to do?.... well as we all know.. they make melee fighters do like 1 damage to them...we need magic!!! so the melees...kite mobs and taunt them.. while the mage nukes em! even if you have 1-2 mages..the battles shouldn't be retardedly long...

next room.... we got some mobs that have courels.... so now we gonna be dealing with paralyze and silence! change up the tactics!

next room... we got bombs!!!.....time to kite...time to bind....time to stun....time to fight from a distance!

next room... we got a dragon!!

next room we got a crap load of rats... they everywhere!!! they low hp..but they everywhere!!! AOE TIME!

**** Hey lets make most of these rooms random... so you don't know what your walking into before you enter the instance. **********

Toss in a nice story of why you are in this instance.....

I hope you fine people have got my point by now....

not really having a choice on what your gonna fight... makes things change..makes things less "grind like"

not to mention, with constant changes...and more randomness... the feature to swap abilities could become even more useable...hey i need a bind move.. hey i need a stun move...we need more nukes... swap swap swap..ok everyone ready?! here we go!!


is it perfect? no? can it be more entertaining then what we have now? maybe

I miss the feeling of having my heart race when I saw Leaping Lizzy pop, and I was running after her trying to outclaim over a fellow camper. While this game has been very fun, I haven't had any of those "exciting" moments yet...

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

The dungeon's sexuality aside, why does something being instanced automatically make it easy?

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Lol!

Sorry but so many points made in the OP have been stated by others before; however theyare lost here in the emotion and unprofessional rant approach. I loved FFXI and do want some of the good things to return but am happy with the direction the crew is taking. I am hopeful they will achieve their goal of appealing to a broader audience (than FFXI) while giving the game enough challenge and uniqueness.

IMO Dear Yoshi P threads should be on autodelete

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Originally Posted by Holland

I am glad Yoshida has the sense to go in the opposite direction of FFXI in terms of absurd time sinks. You should either go back to it or let it go.

Note: Content in Final Fantasy XI lasted so long not because it was difficult or challenging, but because of the absurd drop rates, the time wasting game mechanics, etc. That only served to mount tension and enmity between players and Linkshells because of the absurd time it took to get anything worthwhile.

Games should not rely on time sinks to retain players. Each day it passes I am more convinced the worst enemy FFXIV has, second only to Square-enix himself, is FFXI players that are still stuck in an era of gaming that is no longer realistic or feasible.

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Couldn't agree with this more.

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Originally Posted by Hartigan_Redsail

I feel like people sometimes DO want the exact same game though. Trust me, I compare them all the time and want a lot of the features to measure up to XI - it seems insane they couldn't easily succeed with a new MMO after their first. I would expect XI qualities improved upon.

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People who hate FFXI for reasons unknown or generally just because it's doing a lot better after 10 years compared to XIV which almost died 4 weeks after release always think any comparison or suggestion from XI instantly means we want a FFXI-2...no it means like any other smart dev they should have built off of the foundation XI laid and made it better, not throw it out and try to reinvent the wheel.

Its fine to do something new, but if you can honestly tell me being able to type /sea (name/all) was a horrible system and shouldn't exist in XIV, you truly do just hate FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

People who hate FFXI for reasons unknown or generally just because it's doing a lot better after 10 years compared to XIV which almost died 4 weeks after release always think any comparison or suggestion from XI instantly means we want a FFXI-2...no it means like any other smart dev they should have built off of the foundation XI laid and made it better, not throw it out and try to reinvent the wheel.

Its fine to do something new, but if you can honestly tell me being able to type /sea (name/all) was a horrible system and shouldn't exist in XI, you truly do just hate FFXI.

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some things are the same and will be the same, the op wants 6 man partys like in 11 instead of 8. i dont think 8 man partys hurt the game in anyway therefore it is my opinion we wants everything to be 11 and not just the solid foundation.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Its fine to do something new, but if you can honestly tell me being able to type /sea (name/all) was a horrible system and shouldn't exist in XIV, you truly do just hate FFXI.

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It's just outright strange that some systems they implemented in XI like this for some reason never made the cutting room floor for XIV. I always find myself typing /sea all ____ and crying a little bit inside.

FFXI was definitely my favorite MMO, and I am one of the people that would like nothing more than a pre-abyssea, prettied up version of FFXI.. However, I do understand that this is a different game and I wouldn't suggest that 14 be turned into just that.

Though I will say that while people complain about the drop rates in FFXI being retardedly low, be it for a piece of armor, a weapon, or some silly piece of cloth used to create a piece of armor/weapon, it is what kept us coming back and throwing ourselves headfirst into the grind. It was so damn great to be one of the few guys in my linkshell that actually had Byakko's haidate, because I knew that I had worked months for it. I knew that it was a higher rung on the gear ladder, and it felt damn good stylin' on those chumps who didn't have it, and kept examining me every time I ran through Jeuno or Whitegate.

Again, you say you don't want a challenge comparable to 11, nor do you want lengthy respawn timers or single digit drop rates, but you don't mention how your forum post somewhere down the line will be "I have all the endgame gear only two months into the game. Time to move on to something else.". Granted, the low level gear dropped by the random world bosses is not very much to gush over, since they are almost always just the stepping stone between the previous piece of gear and the next. I mean, take the Howling Talons for example. The claws right after them are better, and there is no alternative to a set of pug weapons at that level. On the other hand Leaping Boots from Lizzy were something that took time, effort, and probably a few busted keyboards, in order to get, and they f'cking lasted. They were worth it, and it was not uncommon to see people wearing them up until 40-50s when they get their AF, or just something with more accuracy/dex on them. They were awesome boots that made people tell you how jealous they are, and how they had yet to accomplish what you just did. Emperor/Empress Hairpins lasted just as long, and even though they didn't give you any sort of viewable hat or hairpin, it was a feat all in it's own to have it. It made it apparent to others that you played to win, and won. It opened doors that were otherwise shut, especially when it came to good linkshell access. It made people compete, as opposed to simply waiting in line.

XI's difficulty and grind were not just those two words - They are both made up of many, many events. Those that complain that things being difficult at all will make people leave, don't realize that things being too easy, where everything end-game is obtained within a fort-night, will make people leave just as fast because there isn't anything left to do until the next update. Rinse and repeat.

I honestly hope things are planned to be changed somewhat, because while I can't complain too much(I just got my hand-to-hand weapons from Cactaur Jack), I do hope, in my heart of hearts, that this game gets some content that I can spend ample amounts of time on if I so please, in order to get back that feeling of accomplishment that came with XI's challenge and difficulty. It was definitely one of the best feelings in and about the entire game,

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

lol wasn't attacking your opinion, I was more trying to state that even us with different opinion's can see the whole picture of what they are doing instead of some people flailing omg choco is too easy to get!!! (mainly because they did everything before this patch) while a new player it will actually feel like they worked for it! Some of the other's were not veiwing the whole picture, and you and bled were.

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oh i agree. i just wanted to actually state what my point was because we know how people on these forums love to take one post and just attack it without having a clue of what they are attacking. i didn't take you as an attack.

yes, for me with a few r50's and having already completed both of the dungeons it will not be difficult for me to get a chocobo, but it should not be difficult for a r50. if it should have any difficulty to obtain it should be for a r20-25 class. if they did nothing more than say to get the chocobo they had to complete the r25 dungeon is would be a nice enough quest for a new player with only one rank 25 class to get.

if it is completable by a r25 then there is no r50 that will have problems completing the quest, but really a chocobo shouldn't be only for the r50 players. if i had expected to have a challenge out of everything released now i would have just stopped playing with the mass exodus, but i wanted the head start so i continued playing.

the drawback to that is the people that took time off will find the new systems more enjoyable because they took months away and now they see the massive changes and will have missed the changes that we have been getting in each patch. they compare the game to what it was in beta or in september and, quite frankly, even before the patch the game was different.

i just have to step back and realize that because i stayed in game not everything being released will be for me, but that the foundation for the people coming back and just getting the game will take priority over my wants.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

oh i agree. i just wanted to actually state what my point was because we know how people on these forums love to take one post and just attack it without having a clue of what they are attacking. i didn't take you as an attack.

yes, for me with a few r50's and having already completed both of the dungeons it will not be difficult for me to get a chocobo, but it should not be difficult for a r50. if it should have any difficulty to obtain it should be for a r20-25 class. if they did nothing more than say to get the chocobo they had to complete the r25 dungeon is would be a nice enough quest for a new player with only one rank 25 class to get.

if it is completable by a r25 then there is no r50 that will have problems completing the quest, but really a chocobo shouldn't be only for the r50 players. if i had expected to have a challenge out of everything released now i would have just stopped playing with the mass exodus, but i wanted the head start so i continued playing.

the drawback to that is the people that took time off will find the new systems more enjoyable because they took months away and now they see the massive changes and will have missed the changes that we have been getting in each patch. they compare the game to what it was in beta or in september and, quite frankly, even before the patch the game was different.

i just have to step back and realize that because i stayed in game not everything being released will be for me, but that the foundation for the people coming back and just getting the game will take priority over my wants.

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Very well put sir! ^^

isn't it funny, you can't please all the people all the time, you have the we want FF11 camp, and the we had that and don't want it anymore camp. i feel sorry for SE, whatever they do some1 is going to be upset.

I just want the battles or actual story based quests/missions to be challenging, not the drop rate itself be part of the challenge.

HNM were broken, sorry to say and they were great if you was in a Linkshell who had a $3000 claim bot. Since that was literally the only possible way to claim an HNM against people using those bots. I enjoyed fighting HNMs that were popped and you didn't have to cheat to claim them. HNM definitely add a certain element to the game but they need to find a way to stop botting from happening and stealing claims using packet sniffers to claim the mob before it visually appears on your screen. I can agree to certain elements of FFXI should be present in this game such as certain types of content but too many people want too many things to be just like FFXI and this game is just not that. IT is not FFXI HD, or FFXI +1, it is a new game that needs to be different in majority of the ways than FFXI. I personally want certain things to make a reappearance in FFXIV that was in XI but some people want far too many things.

Either accept the game for what it is and what it is becoming with Yoshida at the helm or go back and try FFXI again. FFXI is still an amazing game and just as deep and hardcore as it was in the beginning but just in different ways. Many things have changed but many things have stayed the same. FFXI had to change drastically so it wouldn't die, the game was dwindling daily and losing players to newer MMOs. After Abyssea came out the numbers went back up and seen a return of a lot of players who quit because the game lost it's appeal but gained it back because many players always wanted to be able to use certain abilities with certain subjobs and reach higher levels but were never alllowed.

MY view on Kairyu's points:

1. The main focus should NOT be grouping, it should be varied to suits everyone's taste and playing style. If you like grouping, do so but leave other players with their means of leveling up. I am not an hardcore players with 80 hours a week to put on the game, casual play is essential for me here. Grouping takes a lot of time that I can only do on my days off, if I have only 20 minutes to play, I love the leves, etc. etc. So, variety in leveling is essential and focus shouldn't be on grouping.

2. Light party and full party is awesome in my opinion. Much better than the 6 persons party thing. Of course, I liked the huge alliances and such, but as Yoshi P. said, it is quite difficult to put content for that. Maybe, alliances should be brought back 24 persons (3 full parties) for massive front battle (24 players vs waves after waves of monsters), not ultra tough boss fights. Anyway, 4-8 persons parties are greater than the 6 persons parties in my opinion.

3. I really enjoy quests as well, makes me travel around and learn more about the world. Also, as you mentioned, some sort of reputation system like WoW would be great (even with the hamlets and other smaller factions). So, you can literally choose to become friends or not with a group (both situation with their own benefits), allowing players to make choices instead of having everyone friendly with everyone (welcome to La-La Land!).

4. Crafting is really repetitive, I agree. I, too, fall asleep when crafting. But, I have to say that crafting is what truly motivated me about the game at first. I wanted to be crafter and live my adventurer's life as a crafter. But then, I noticed that crafter were confined in cities, couldn't fight at all (I still wish they could be somewhat useful in battle), was truly repetitive task, etc. And so, I diversified with other classes, mainly doing a bit of each discipline as the game intended players to do. Now, with materia coming into the game, crafting might become less repetitive and boring in the long run. :)

5. No zones, please, I hate zones. More seamless regions = better. The problem is not seamless, it's the fact they did not build them correctly. They should have built a texture swap or something to allow seamless regions to have different areas that don't look all the same. For example, you need to pass in a canyon or cave, during that time, the texture is swapped to the other one (the cave/canyon texture being it's own texture, doesn't need to be swapped, only when changing region). Anyway, they said they'll rework it, I hope they'll show us concept arts or blueprints first before releasing the modified regions.

6. I'm not near endgame yet, so I'll leave my comments out this time.

not one of these again =/

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Originally Posted by Holland

I am glad Yoshida has the sense to go in the opposite direction of FFXI in terms of absurd time sinks. You should either go back to it or let it go.

Note: Content in Final Fantasy XI lasted so long not because it was difficult or challenging, but because of the absurd drop rates, the time wasting game mechanics, etc. That only served to mount tension and enmity between players and Linkshells because of the absurd time it took to get anything worthwhile.

Games should not rely on time sinks to retain players. Each day it passes I am more convinced the worst enemy FFXIV has, second only to Square-enix himself, is FFXI players that are still stuck in an era of gaming that is no longer realistic or feasible.

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lol AMEN, YOU ARE AWESOME!

I was a ff11 player for 11 years and it took retarded amounts of time to do anything. I like the way the direction is going in this game. Many people are complaining they had shit handed to them on a silver platter, but the thing is you have a choice to accept being handed stuff or wait for you to earn it. (referring to broken leves which caused everyone and their mommas to have all r50's)

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

oh i agree. i just wanted to actually state what my point was because we know how people on these forums love to take one post and just attack it without having a clue of what they are attacking. i didn't take you as an attack.

yes, for me with a few r50's and having already completed both of the dungeons it will not be difficult for me to get a chocobo, but it should not be difficult for a r50. if it should have any difficulty to obtain it should be for a r20-25 class. if they did nothing more than say to get the chocobo they had to complete the r25 dungeon is would be a nice enough quest for a new player with only one rank 25 class to get.

if it is completable by a r25 then there is no r50 that will have problems completing the quest, but really a chocobo shouldn't be only for the r50 players. if i had expected to have a challenge out of everything released now i would have just stopped playing with the mass exodus, but i wanted the head start so i continued playing.

the drawback to that is the people that took time off will find the new systems more enjoyable because they took months away and now they see the massive changes and will have missed the changes that we have been getting in each patch. they compare the game to what it was in beta or in september and, quite frankly, even before the patch the game was different.

i just have to step back and realize that because i stayed in game not everything being released will be for me, but that the foundation for the people coming back and just getting the game will take priority over my wants.

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Exactly! this game is about having a good game for a new player and then building on that. Everything we have been able to do ahead of PS3 launch is bonus IMO.

People should really stop trying to get attention by writing a grammatically challenged wall of text with very few specific points.

This is nothing new.

They are trying to make a lot of changes. Changes do not happen quickly and I like the direction that they are going. One has to realize and take into account that they are modifying and enhancing an existing program.

Most players will agree that they should have taken more mechanics from FFXI that worked like /SEA and /SEACOM.

I am sure that they will fix linkshell management and the AH/Market wards issues in the future. It just takes time.

If you address the lead developer, you should at least be familiar with his posts and he has always said that he appreciates players' patience.

The OP did not even state a valid reason why 6 man party is better than 8 man party. Don't Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood.

The OP failed to even mention the problem that there was a lack of healing and tank jobs in FFXI. I, for one, hope they address that in the future.

I cannot believe that anyone would recommend they add HNMs like they had in FFXI. Obviously the OP is not familiar with the upcoming changes regarding mnster claiming. While they may have claimed one or a couple of HNMs, they were a dominated by botting linkshells and there is no way that anyone should rightfully want that in FFXIV.

I really distrust people who only have 3 posts and do not have a signature indicating how much they have played FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

that's what i was referring to. the removal of depth was ok when it didn't affect them and they personally attacked people that had issues with them, but now just because it's not some intense quest to get a way of transportation when it has already been stated some of the game will need those they make a big deal out of it.

would i have liked a quest to get a chocobo? yes, but i also understand that even if they added a quest it would be for something around a mid 20's character to complete anyways so with my r50 it would still be considered nothing to get it.

we have to realize that when we skipped ahead and continued to rank up that not everything that goes into the game is going to be for us. they have to make the game more stable for the incoming players before they can look into a ps3 release or they will have the same mass exodus we had with the pc users. they have to get it ready for ps3 release as their first priority because they need the income to start rolling in.

all i was saying is that people should have seen this coming with all of the other changes, but they were too busy fighting with each other to see it.

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I understand that and i know that we're far from low ranks, but right now im only asking for hard content to come, especially for us who have been here playing all the time since last september, i enjoy the game a lot but i really want to see things that take people time to do, not in like waiting an NM for 3 days for a single pop or something like that, i want content that needs skillful play that even being good in your role you have a high percent of failure, we need high rank content to be focus while they make more content for new players.

I didnt like that much the new dungeon r45+ that you need to skip all to get a special chest, we need open world content like alliance raids where you meet different playstyles and have a great fun at the same time. Places that you need to complete hard stuff to get there, gear that doesnt become obsolete after 3-6 months, its not like make a FFXI-2 its more like take the hardest and juicy stuff from there and make it in the FFXIV way, i really enjoy more XIV than XI the battle dynamics are far better in my op. but if we're gonna have easy to clear content, wheres the fun?

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Originally Posted by grandm

isn't it funny, you can't please all the people all the time, you have the we want FF11 camp, and the we had that and don't want it anymore camp. i feel sorry for SE, whatever they do some1 is going to be upset.

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in those situations, given equal populations of each group, it is usually best to have two separate products in order to satisfy everyone, now if only SE had two games that could satisfy each group individually...

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Originally Posted by elreed

I understand that and i know that we're far from low ranks, but right now im only asking for hard content to come, especially for us who have been here playing all the time since last september, i enjoy the game a lot but i really want to see things that take people time to do, not in like waiting an NM for 3 days for a single pop or something like that, i want content that needs skillful play that even being good in your role you have a high percent of failure, we need high rank content to be focus while they make more content for new players.

I didnt like that much the new dungeon r45+ that you need to skip all to get a special chest, we need open world content like alliance raids where you meet different playstyles and have a great fun at the same time. Places that you need to complete hard stuff to get there, gear that doesnt become obsolete after 3-6 months, its not like make a FFXI-2 its more like take the hardest and juicy stuff from there and make it in the FFXIV way, i really enjoy more XIV than XI the battle dynamics are far better in my op. but if we're gonna have easy to clear content, wheres the fun?

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I understand what your saying, and you are not alone at all. Its just from their point of view... they need to pump out the "skeleton" of the game first...if they spend time trying to find content for the people currently playing...then they are building content based on a system that is going to go through rapid changes in the months to come...

we just got to play the waiting game.... theres a reason the game is free at the moment

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

FFXI had to change drastically so it wouldn't die, the game was dwindling daily and losing players to newer MMOs.

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I believe you're confusing FFXIV for FFXI, as between the past few census's the playerbase didn't dip dramatically since 2007. FFXI was far from dying. Every MMO loses players to new MMOs, then people go back to their previous ones, that's a generalized cycle in the world of MMOs

Hell people kept saying every generic offline game that released will kill off XI, if it were to die it would gave died years ago, much like Everquest -- If Everquest were to die off it would have by now, because that game loses players to new MMOs as well.

Prove that someone has automated crafting before shouting that they need to create a bot-proof crafting system.

I definitely concur overall.

I would say though, the mistake you have done is labeled this hardcore. This will naturally trigger negative responses, the non-hardcore players will instantly get on the defensive side without giving it much thought. The ironic thing though is that i don't see the general idea of having challenging creative content as a bad thing for anyone. I am a casual myself and i would hate to be spending whatever time i have playing a dull piss easy game. Beats the purpose really, and i believe the concept applies to all players. There may be some minor differences of opinion on specifics, but everyone wants some challenge or else people will get bored and quit in no time. This is no job or chore, you're playing to stimulate your brain and it is an rpg so people (except for the absurd minority) want to put in some good effort to achieve their goals in the game, just like every other rpg out there.

This thread is important for one simple apparent point.. The way things are going with this easy mode trend, The game will continue to be boring and will really die out quick.
Just look at the trend of patches introduced so far, the new quests, the dungeons, and now chocobos and airship, all handed with ease, no serious effort needed, within a week or two (if not less), people have beaten the patch to death, they're bored, complaining on the forum and waiting for the next patch and there we have a vicious cycle, patch after patch. Content needs to be more creative and challenging, something that would outlive patches to come. Things that would take months to achieve, not a matter of days.

Think CoP or even simple examples of quests like having to hunt down for AF back in the day, quests which took challenge and co-operation with other players up to alliances. Recall how great sense of an achievement it was acquiring your items. Wasn't just beat this mob to get your item, that's just plain easy, dull and boring. Had to go indepth into caves, dungeons and all sorts of places, friends looking around and searching with you, figuring out puzzles together, some having to switch levers or a button from the other side for you, some having to sneak or invis to get past a hoard of crazy NM's to get to a certain point, Some making a tiny mistake costing their life and as result whole mission being somewhat compromised/delayed, some (even strangers in my experience) playing hero sacrificing themselves to get the others through to their objective, and that was with exp loss. That's the kinda thrill we're seriously missing and is direly needed in this game.
The other point is, even in death, the places were constantly populated that you're bound to have some mage walking past to give you a raise and i'd like to stress here..that was because people had a reason to be in those places, people also wanted to explore the world, the content was thrilling enough to keep players lurking around in all sorts of places. Whether they were there for quests, for NM's, for exp'ing or just for the sake of exploring.

It's evident this hardly exists in Eorzea, and i really feel this whole insta-fest happening, teleporting anytime anywhere and a lack of a focus on real deep and long immersive quests and open content in general is just killing the whole experience and concept of an MMORPG, people enjoying the world, meeting one another in random places, helping each other out.
A Sad realistic example of a typical day in this game:

1) Teleport to camp
2) Do leves
3) Teleport back

No one can be stuffed exploring due to the mechanisms put in place. Sometimes it's a good thing to force people to run around Eorzea, let them have to mingle with each other, create a sense of adventure where the community has to co-operate with each other, even if strangers. Not just when you have to do a raid. Teleport while an essential feature in most MMO's and it should be there, it can also be a major hindrance in the success of the game when abused. With other alternate fast forms of transport available, It should be limited severely and a luxury to use, so the option is there but doesn't ruin the adventure aspect.
The content should really be quest/mission focused and less focus on leves and dungeons, more Open world content, Bring HNM's, encourage group leveling as a fun dynamic and interactive exercise where each brings something unique to the table, not a dull boring spam-fest chore, and again encouraging party'ing will give people more reason to socialize and meet one another and form friends. All who played XI know how true this is and while you get the occasional jerk, you do meet great people through party'ing and needless to say, that as a result will enhance your whole gaming experience and will be long-lasting. Heck, some of us here have jumped onto FFXIV with our FFXI friends.

Perhaps if there was enough Open World content and enough deep serious missions and quests, Battle leves can be abolished, as they're primarily serving solo/casual players now since XIV's focus is shifting away from being leve-centric which is good; Give these people reason to go out and wander around Eorzea for their exp and make it worthwhile so they're not missing out on what leves offered while still not being limited to group grinding either and again this'll further contribute to bringing back to life the sense of adventure needed in this game, having people actively out there all over the Eorzea and not just focused around camps.

These are all serious issues that need to be addressed for the longevity and success of the game. People need a reason to play the game for a long time and stick around, and i truly believe until these issues are seriously addressed, this game will never see the light of hope.

There were MANY things they got right in XI before they switched to easy sauce mode, that wouldn't have made XIV an XI-2 game. Just because people say some of the crap that's still crap in this game should have been the same or an upgraded form of the same as it was in XI, doesn't mean they (me included in that crowd) want an XI-2.
I want to be able to search for party members with something other than the totally unchanged-never-really-worked pos party search we have been saddled with since launch.
I want to know my hard earned gear isn't going to be worthless in 3 months. Case in point- Yoshi stated the dungeons would be dumbed down every three months to allow people that couldn't complete it, a chance to get it anyway. When asked what the motivation would be for anyone to do it while it was hard, if they could just do something else for 3 months, then go get the gear- he stated that the new dungeons introduced at the same time, would have better versions of the gear and weapons than the last. So we're looking at a proprosed game mechanic of beat this to get this sword, so you can turn around and beat this to get this sword, so you can turn around and beat this to get this sword.
There is a happy medium that needs to be found. Sure I agree that XI's take 3 years to get your turn at a drop if it drops, if you get the claim, and if you've managed to set your whole life's timers around the game, was and is a broken idea, but at least that item was freaking awesome, and not to be trumped in some update making it meh.
Say what you will about XI being an outdated game with outdated MMO concepts, but you know what it has that makes XIV look outdated? Worthwhile ability/ws(br)/spell animations. The absolute harldy noticible, unremarkable, lackluster, might-as-well not be there animations in this game are downright shameful and lazy design. You know why skillchains were far more fun in XI than BR's in XIV? You could see a visual representation, and a nice one at that, of your effort, and a far more satisfying result from said chain.
In general, the people I talk to that talk about XI things that should be in XIV, are not looking for XI-2. They are just understandably confused about the things that ARE in both games, but are designed pro-style in the 10 year old game, but are a stripped down hardly working prototype/concept hybrid of fail in the new game. Things like: chat/search/LSfunctions/UI/gearconfigsave/etc ad nauseum are all things that exsist in XI, but (even in their earliest versions) are FAR more well designed, functional, and more intuitive than in XIV.

Some people can't figure out why, and some people can't figure out a way to fix it, so understandably they revert to "Make it just like XI" when posting about it. Can you really blame them for giving up and reverting to that solution? Especially considering at launch it straight up felt like the devs gave up trying to figure it out sometime pre-alpha?

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Originally Posted by TMjolnir

LOL Rutelor... :p But very true...right on man (thumbs up) :D

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Much obliged, TM and Bled, for your kind words... :-)

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Originally Posted by Gennosuke

No one can be assed exploring due to the mechanisms put in place.

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What does that mean?

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

What does that mean?

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meaning the game needs to Encourage adventure, there are multiple aspects where they've gone wrong in that regard.
When you give everyone the option to teleport at all times from anywhere at anytime, people will do just that instead of roaming around Eorzea.
Similarly, when the game is leve-centric, people will be focused around camps instead.

There should be more reason to go out there and explore Eorzea, realistically speaking, rpg's are all about building your char's and gaining. If you don't incorporate those elements into the world itself properly, then people will have little reason to explore. This is where i believe there should be more serious thought put into quests and missions. I'd do away with leves completely, besides being a dull repetitive chore, it's backwards in regards to promoting adventure and exploration.

Yes, I got your point.

I don't think they should get rid of leves. I think they should add some FoV, but they probably will.

Maybe you have some suggestions for what type of quests or missions you'd like to see?

Another thread born of FFXI nostalgia driven mumbo jumbo. You don't have to be so limited you know. You can either wait til this game goes to Pay to Play or keep playing FFXI.

I will have to say, when you're expecting this game to become your favorite MMO from a previous installment, you're never going to be happy with it. You were younger then and you had a lot more fun. This is the problem that SE is going to have for a long time. A lot of FFXI fans who had a very long and close relationship to the game who are looking to get that feeling back. It's impossible unless they directly copy the game's systems. Which is not innovative and unimpressive to me or others who don't have the same ties to FFXI as you do.

FFXIV isn't going to be as good to you as someone who isn't FFXI nostalgia driven. Tis the way it always works. Things are always better 10 years ago. It doesn't matter who you're talking to or what you're talking about. People will always latch onto what they had fun with way back when.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

FFXIV isn't going to be as good to you as someone who isn't FFXI nostalgia driven. Tis the way it always works.

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I wonder if anyone will look back at XIV and be like "Man that **** was fun! I want my next MMO to be more like it at launch!"

As much as you assume people are looking through nostalgia goggles, the fact of the matter is that XIV is a far inferior game to pretty much anything that is currently on the market. So I wouldn't get all upity on people for remembering how fun a game can be instead of how "Meh" the one they are playing currently is.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

People who hate FFXI for reasons unknown or generally just because it's doing a lot better after 10 years compared to XIV which almost died 4 weeks after release always think any comparison or suggestion from XI instantly means we want a FFXI-2...no it means like any other smart dev they should have built off of the foundation XI laid and made it better, not throw it out and try to reinvent the wheel.

Its fine to do something new, but if you can honestly tell me being able to type /sea (name/all) was a horrible system and shouldn't exist in XIV, you truly do just hate FFXI.

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Personally I'm not a big fan of XI. Whenever someone says "Let's implement this from XI because XI did it!" I cringe a little. Personally, I'd rather they take the good ideas from XI and improve upon them for this game. I'm sure /sea all was a great feature, but I'm also sure it was far from perfect. I'm fine with implementing shit that worked from XI as long as it's better than it was back then.

I stoppeped reading skimming this laundry list of a rant after you said (in caps to make everyone realize the depth of your wisdom) that if Yoshida does something you don't like IT WILL BE THE DEATH OF THE GAME!!11!

Why not just come out and say "my opinion is the only correct one"?

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Originally Posted by Gennosuke

meaning the game needs to Encourage adventure, there are multiple aspects where they've gone wrong in that regard.
When you give everyone the option to teleport at all times from anywhere at anytime, people will do just that instead of roaming around Eorzea.
Similarly, when the game is leve-centric, people will be focused around camps instead.

There should be more reason to go out there and explore Eorzea, realistically speaking, rpg's are all about building your char's and gaining. If you don't incorporate those elements into the world itself properly, then people will have little reason to explore. This is where i believe there should be more serious thought put into quests and missions. I'd do away with leves completely, besides being a dull repetitive chore, it's backwards in regards to promoting adventure and exploration.

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Strongholds, dungeons, farming spots, settlements, grind spots, cool unique places, quests of all types and fun aren't enough reason to go exploring? Throw Chocobos on top for ease of exploration without teleporting.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I wonder if anyone will look back at XIV and be like "Man that **** was fun! I want my next MMO to be more like it at launch!"

As much as you assume people are looking through nostalgia goggles, the fact of the matter is that XIV is a far inferior game to pretty much anything that is currently on the market. So I wouldn't get all upity on people for remembering how fun a game can be instead of how "Meh" the one they are playing currently is.

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I can almost guarantee that when FFXIV goes to pay to play, the only people who will be thinking that will still be the FFXI nostalgia driven players. :P

FFXIV will never be good enough til you let FFXI go. Sorry, but that's a fact.