why are minion drops so rare?

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Originally Posted by Twilite

Brayflox Longstop HM.

Tell me nothing can be worse than that.

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You can do it solo un-synced, got my opo-opo after 2 runs and sold it few days ago for 2.4mil. I actually went there to farm cokes and other mats so it was more like extra bonus at the end.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Good way to make things hard to get: Louisoix minion as an automatic reward for clearing Coil.

Bad way to make things hard to get: make them entirely RNG based.

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I'm not saying it has to be RNG. I agree with you. Except what even furthers my point is T13 was nerfed already plus it can be done unsync, so even Louisoix isn't necessarily hard to get anymore.

Because for some reason glamour and fluff content is the real end game. :/

Oh and fishing....fishing is actually fun tho ;)

Some guy on my server is always buying out all the Lesser Pandas, and Galekittens then reselling them for around 1m more then what he bought them for. So yes I welcome higher drop rates on minions especially the hard to get leveling dungeon ones.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

because farming 5m gil is an impossible task? get one gatherer to 60 and you have it in less than 1 week if you gather the usefull stuff (adamantite, porcini, whatever)

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Read the context of what you replied to.
-Most people can't get a nutkin because they are extremely rare, and are on time gated content
-If most people followed your DoL suggestion, nobody would make any gil gathering
-On a server where you can easily farm 5m gil a week farming, 5m won't come close to buying one

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Because for some reason glamour and fluff content is the real end game. :/

Oh and fishing....fishing is actually fun tho ;)

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Well if the only other options are at the extremes of the difficulty scale, are obsoleted immediately when its beaten or is...whatever the hell Ravana is...

I hardly ever get the latest minions when they drop. So, I just go to the market board and get the minions at the cheapest price; I already got the ugly duckling and owlet.
The freakin' "batcat" and lesser panda never drops for me DX On the MB, they pretty much costs your soul on my server. x_x

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Some guy on my server is always buying out all the Lesser Pandas, and Galekittens then reselling them for around 1m more then what he bought them for. So yes I welcome higher drop rates on minions especially the hard to get leveling dungeon ones.

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so this guy can make millions with only a few minutes work over the week? yeah, really hard to get money...

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Originally Posted by Tint

so this guy can make millions with only a few minutes work over the week? yeah, really hard to get money...

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To do what he does requires camping the Market Boards almost all day.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Read the context of what you replied to.
-Most people can't get a nutkin because they are extremely rare, and are on time gated content
-If most people followed your DoL suggestion, nobody would make any gil gathering
-On a server where you can easily farm 5m gil a week farming, 5m won't come close to buying one

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there are tons of possible ways to make the required amount of money in no time

anyway, if nutkin becomes more expensive more people will start doing maps again, more unhidden maps will drop, more nutkins will flood the market etc.

after 3.0 release they dropped to 2m gil because there were like 20 on the market after 1 week, because everyone did dragon/wyvern maps

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

We’re planning to increase the rate in which you can obtain some of the rarer minions, so players can also use them to further enjoy Lord of Verminion in Patch 3.1.

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you should either increase the rate so its far more common, or make it so you can only hit need one time on them forever. as of now, the major issue stands where people hit need on those rare minions and just put them on the MB. im not opposed to them being used as money, but when minions from a dungeon sell for over 2m because its rare to see drop, thats overkill

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I lost around 85x the roll for Dark cloud Minion - Puff >_>
Now its even way more impossible to get her because that dungeon died out. Not any1 playing it anymore! >_>

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not just minions, but crafting mats too. SE should really find a way to add these to some alternative method

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Originally Posted by FriendlyUncle

I don't understand why something so incredibly useless is so rare. It's a collectable. I don't see why people are getting up in arms about this. We aren't talking about BiS gear here. We are talking about a little thing that follows you around and flops on the ground occasionally. Are you really gonna bitch and cry freebie over a minion vs battle equipment. We all ready have to grind for everything in the game, DoL/DoH/DoW/DoM gear, TT, Chocobo Race, Saucer tokens. Not everything needs to be a mindless, repetitive grind. It seems to me the only ones whining and crying about drop rate increase are people that have them and/or are making gil from the sale of said minions. And with easier access to them they lose income.

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This right here, I agree. What I really want to know is, why people want more mindless grinding than actually challenging content?

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Originally Posted by Rynia

That's why I love the achievement minions so much, it gives you an active goal you can work towards and actually see progress rather than bash your head against the wall hoping RNG blesses you today.

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^^^^^THIS
while im not a huge fan of grinding anymore (for those that wonder, i played ffxi for 6 years) and tired of grinding(like atma and light when they came out) but some kind of offset to guarantee some of these "vanity" items after so many times not getting it. and unlike alot of people complaining about the "instant gratification" people, realize, unlike some of you, some of us have real lives and go outside to do stuff with people in our local area

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

anyway, if nutkin becomes more expensive more people will start doing maps again, more unhidden maps will drop, more nutkins will flood the market etc.

after 3.0 release they dropped to 2m gil because there were like 20 on the market after 1 week, because everyone did dragon/wyvern maps

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It's still on a time gated system, limited to people with a 40+ gatherer.

On my server, there have been less than 2 dozen uniques up for sale since HW came out, including the few up for sale from before. One guy bought about 10 of them. I'm betting many of the ones on your server were brought as collateral from server transfers.

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Originally Posted by warren-ragnarok

unlike some of you, some of us have real lives and go outside to do stuff with people in our local area

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at first i disagreed with your points but then i read this and in a bid to assert that i do in fact have a real life as well i now back a slight increase to droprate on minions completely for the sake of us people who must do stuff with people in our local areas

Minions are a joke to get to be honest.... Just level other jobs and ride your way through them. I'm 4 60's deep and I have all 3.0 Dungeon Minions except Owlet and Book Minion... People just need to spend the time instead of wanting everything now just because you pay a subscription. Asking for this simple and more then easy system to be dumbed down further is just pathetic. And if you have so much of a "real life" that you can't do 30 minutes worth of content for a dungeon run, this game isn't for you. I have a job and female prospects I take out, and I still manage to accomplish everything I have... what is your excuse?

Also people still want challenging content, but the point of things being "collectable" is that they are rare, to make it a select few that possess the collection. That is literally the whole point of having rare in game collectables... and gives a sense of pride to those that have them unlike some people that expect to have it fed to them on a silver plate.... How is this so hard for players to understand?

Also lets gt something clear, there is no shame in having rewards that are only for those that are willing to put in the HARDCORE Time for them. In 11, there was simply rewards and battle systems you just didn't do. Whether it was your time commitment, your class, or your personal skill level. There was some stuff players just accepted wasn't for them. This is the first time I've seen an MMO where terrible players feel they should be entitled to all of the game's content and rewards. And if they can't do it as a brain dead zombie or by mashing their face on the keyboard, then it isn't fair and should be nerfed. Like sorry if you can't commit 30 minutes to a run every few days to farm your minions, then it isn't the game for you. And the fact that SE wants to catter to scrubs makes it miserable for players like me that finish that garbage in minutes....

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Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

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That's the exact problem you nugget, it doesn't matter how many times you run it, you could literally never see it in 1,000 runs, let alone win a roll. If it again, achievement based it would be fine, but as is the system is entirely unfair.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

That's the exact problem you nugget, it doesn't matter how many times you run it, you could literally never see it in 1,000 runs, let alone win a roll. If it again, achievement based it would be fine, but as is the system is entirely unfair.

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And that is exactly the point of why it's so valued. Why it is even worth gil, is because not everybody gets it just for running the brain dead dungeon.... What point are you making? I'm sorry but just because you win a dungeon doesn't mean you should get the prize. If you're skilled you will speed run it and learn how to clear it faster and efficiently, instead of getting carried through it one time and the final chest drops everybody a Owlet. Sorry but that is stupid.

I've started running ponies, and even though I didn't get mine first drop, I didn't complain and I kept running the runs every free chance I got and now I'm 4/6, and I'm not complaining that I made runs that helped others get ponies, or that I had to run Ifrit more times then I would like to mention. But that is the point of it being rare, and feeling actually accomplished when you earn something, rather then entitled. Just getting it and logging off til there is more content...

Also I'm 4/6 after 1 Month's worth of time spent and that is playing when I had the time after work and had the time to play which wasn't every day. So this "It could take you years" is Binkie-Guild Exaggeration...

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Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

And that is exactly the point of why it's so valued. Why it is even worth gil, is because not everybody gets it just for running the brain dead dungeon.... What point are you making? I'm sorry but just because you win a dungeon doesn't mean you should get the prize. If you're skilled you will speed run it and learn how to clear it faster and efficiently, instead of getting carried through it one time and the final chest drops everybody a Owlet. Sorry but that is stupid.

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Stupid? I'm sorry if you don't understand the point I'm making, but your post contradicts it. You can't reliably speed run it and get a guaranteed drop, that's the problem! Why is that so difficult to understand? Are you one of the lucky few who got it in the first several runs, one of the people who profits off of them, or just someone who doesn't want others to have their candy? What would be so wrong with an achievement for running it 10+ times that guarantees the minion drop?

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Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

I've started running ponies, and even though I didn't get mine first drop, I didn't complain and I kept running the runs every free chance I got and now I'm 4/6, and I'm not complaining that I made runs that helped others get ponies, or that I had to run Ifrit more times then I would like to mention. But that is the point of it being rare, and feeling actually accomplished when you earn something, rather then entitled. Just getting it and logging off til there is more content...

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And guess what? Ponies have been nerfed, twice if I recall correctly. You'd be lucky to even have 1 if it was never nerfed, you are benefiting from nerfs too.

The point is you don't have to run every dungeon run for 30-50 minutes, you can speed run it faster and more efficiently so you can run it more. You shouldn't get it just because you meet a time requirement, or because you decided to spam AoE abilities on MNK or ram your 1 key for Heavy thrust..... I get what you're saying, but I also just roll my eyes at how much players like that bother me that they think every thing they do deserves a pat on their back end.

Also this garbage of 10+ times you get the reward anyway, is the damn reason why this game is as dead as it is, why ques are disgusting, and why there is barely anyone in game. It's also most likely why there are trailers playing on Twitch and other websites again to drive the audience after it stopped for a good while. That isn't sustainable gaming, it's pandering to the we-wants while making us an unloyal playerbase that only subs when there is new content and unsubs once it's all obtained.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Stupid? I'm sorry if you don't understand the point I'm making, but your post contradicts it. You can't reliably speed run it and get a guaranteed drop, that's the problem! Why is that so difficult to understand? Are you one of the lucky few who got it in the first several runs, one of the people who profits off of them, or just someone who doesn't want others to have their candy? What would be so wrong with an achievement for running it 10+ times that guarantees the minion drop?



And guess what? Ponies have been nerfed, twice if I recall correctly. You'd be lucky to even have 1 if it was never nerfed, you are benefiting from nerfs too.

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That's why we have a MB and gil. You don't have to run a dungeon 1000 times to get it. You can either gamble with the dungeon or spend a fixed amount of time earning gil to buy it.

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Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

The point is you don't have to run every dungeon run for 30-50 minutes, you can speed run it faster and more efficiently so you can run it more. You shouldn't get it just because you meet a time requirement, or because you decided to spam AoE abilities on MNK or ram your 1 key for Heavy thrust..... I get what you're saying, but I also just roll my eyes at how much players like that bother me that they think every thing they do deserves a pat on their back end.

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Then set it to 100 times done, it will truly be a rare minion with a few people going for it intentionally (or while leveling other classes). The problem with your line is thinking is that that Dragoon who was dead 90% of the time could win the minion, on his 1st run nonetheless. That's right, the least useful person could win it. If it was given out based on how much you contributed it would be fair game, but now, your line of thinking fails.

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Originally Posted by zosia

That's why we have a MB and gil. You don't have to run a dungeon 1000 times to get it. You can either gamble with the dungeon or spend a fixed amount of time earning gil to buy it.

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^^ Agreed. While I would rather earn my treats from drops and will even starve til I get the drop, because I have a sense of honor and pride like that. That is also an option since gil really serves no purpose in this game anyway.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

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No, you thinking this game needs to breast feed you rewards rather then you actually putting in the time to earn them is the failure here. If you can't see that for yourself, then I really hope that the new Island Event gives you a rude awakening because that gear has completely randomized stats so you'll be grinding it for a good while anyway like Diablo III just to get the right piece. In the end, this sort of Binkie-Guild, baby Sitter club thinking belongs on WoW or a game that you can Pay-to-Win. And I hope one of these days 14 pulls its head out and slaps these players away since even though they pay, they are what brings the game down to beyond ignorant levels.

And if you set it to 100 times, what is even the point lol, people would still complain anyway lol. People moan when they have to do things more then 5 times for rewards, 10 is a stretch, what makes you think people who are complaining now about the RNG would all of a sudden be ok with it being 100 times... lol

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Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

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I've done plenty of grindy things, that includes the relic weapon pre-3.0 I just don't believe trivial things like minions should be locked behind insane grinds. But please, explain how clearing a dungeon 100 times for a guaranteed achievement reward is "breastfeeding" the rewards to me, go on, I'd like to hear your explanation from a person with a sense of honor and pride. :)

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Originally Posted by Colorful

I just don't believe trivial things like minions should be locked behind insane grinds.

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Exactly, if it's so trivial, why even make it a reward? Why even make it so you have to do it 100 times guaranteed to get it? You literally just answered your contradictory statement. If it's so trivial to you, then why does it matter if it takes you 1k or a million times to get it? Oh you want it don't you, then that is why it matters. Because you want it, and others have it, others that put in the time, just were lucky, or bought it straight up with their hard earned money. While you? You have nothing. That is why it matters. This isn't pokemon where you just walk out and get the prizes for occupying the space. This is an MMO, where you should have to earn everything you get.

That is what MMO's call lusting for rewards, and while it's great to have it in the game, it would be even better if it was for gear or weapons.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

I've done plenty of grindy things, that includes the relic weapon pre-3.0 I just don't believe trivial things like minions should be locked behind insane grinds. But please, explain how clearing a dungeon 100 times for a guaranteed achievement reward is "breastfeeding" the rewards to me, go on, I'd like to hear your explanation from a person with a sense of honor and pride. :)

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You can buy any of the rarest minions from a couple of days of gathering/crafting/SB-ing. It's only an insane grind if you choose to make it that way. If you think 2-5mil is an insane grind worth of gathering and crafting, you are not doing it right.

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Originally Posted by zosia

You can buy any of the rarest minions from a couple of days of gathering/crafting/SB-ing. It's only an insane grind if you choose to make it that way. If you think 2-5mil is an insane grind worth of gathering and crafting, you are not doing it right.

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I can't say, don't enjoy crafting nor gathering personally. When I need gil I just go out and farm wanted materials from monsters and make gil that way, it's worked so far, so why stop?

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Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

Exactly, if it's so trivial, why even make it a reward? Why even make it so you have to do it 100 times guaranteed to get it? You literally just answered your contradictory statement. If it's so trivial to you, then why does it matter if it takes you 1k or a million times to get it? Oh you want it don't you, then that is why it matters. Because you want it, and others have it, others that put in the time, just were lucky, or bought it straight up with their hard earned money. While you? You have nothing. That is why it matters. This isn't pokemon where you just walk out and get the prizes for occupying the space. This is an MMO, where you should have to earn everything you get.

That is what MMO's call lusting for rewards, and while it's great to have it in the game, it would be even better if it was for gear or weapons.

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Well actually the only minion I wanted from Heavensward was the Ugly Ducking, and I was lucky enough to win that in a drop, but the only minion I actually use is the Odin one. Why should there be a guaranteed drop? Because it's something to work towards gradually, maybe I want to play FFXIV but I've already capped Esoterics, I can log on and knock 1-5 runs off and have a reason to run the older dungeons. I didn't want the relic weapon really, it's just that I had nothing else to do and it was something I could work towards, which as you said is essential to MMOs. You know which parts I enjoyed most? You guessed it, the ones not involving RNG. I could plan how much runs I'd do a day on a casual playtime and then eventually get it just before a patch hits or something of the sort. And you're right, this isn't Pokemon. Pokemon has much nicer "minions" that are actually useful.

There is no further argument to be had here, what you ask for is breast feeding content. And it is because of the systems you speak (Eso and Law) that this game is as quiet as it has been. It's also why players have been in an uproar and the ones streaming this game are playing others games rather then focusing their content on this game. You are the players that poison this game to being what it is now.

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Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

There is no further argument to be had here, what you ask for is breast feeding content. And it is because of the systems you speak (Eso and Law) that this game is as quiet as it has been. It's also why players have been in an uproar and the ones streaming this game are playing others games rather then focusing their content on this game. You are the players that poison this game to being what it is now.

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Yup, this game is slowly becoming a joke and I am starting to see why they never release the number of active subs.

Never really get these posts. At least at the moment, minions serve no purpose at all, EXCEPT the fun of the challenge to collect them. What you are asking is that challenge be removed, in which case imo we may as well scrap minions all together

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Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

And if you set it to 100 times, what is even the point lol

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That was an example, to attack examples is poor discussing style, try to attack arguments!
Furthermore, it is called "fail save system" and it is supposed to be a net against very unlucky RNG rolls...
Just as reminder: it is common in programming to backup RNG with fail save systems.

The Key is: they are hidden, unknown from normal customers and you see them only when something happens but then you are glad they are working!
Normal Players who have the luck to see ugly duck drop before reaching the "100 runs" do not feel any difference at all. In FACT to keep the "lusting for rewards" active, fail save systems were made.

But well, i understand you to a little degree, because then you cant sell them for housing prices...

You know we're at that state of critical boredom between patches when people are complaining about minion drops of all things.

Their rarity makes them special. Plenty of people enjoy having something unusual/rare that differentiates them from other people. Given how pretty much everything else is handed to players on a silver platter in this game, it's fine for a few non-essential things to be difficult/time-consuming to get. (And besides, if they put them in the cash shop so EVERYBODY could have them, you can be sure people would start beating Ye Olde Cash Shop Dead Horse.)

I completely understand the argument that people don't like RNG but frankly the minion drop rates in this game are nowhere near as bad as certain mount drops in WoW. I've known people who spent years farming for certain mounts.

Also lord can we not use the term "breastfeeding content" any more. It's "spoonfeeding."

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I lost around 85x the roll for Dark cloud Minion - Puff >_>
Now its even way more impossible to get her because that dungeon died out. Not any1 playing it anymore! >_>

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This is my problem, too. I hope 3.1 makes the Crystal Tower raids somewhat enticing again, otherwise I'll never see a Puff of Darkness on my shoulder. :(