You are not a fail.

agree with op 100%

this is the type of player attitude se needs to LISTEN to and build content around

I do not yet have a tank but when DRK comes out I will have one, at that time there will be no speed runs unless EVERY single member of the group wants it, not if one person wants it and not if two people want it etc. Everyone must be in agreement. If no such agreement happens then no speed run, simple as that because no-one when joined the queue if for example in DF (unlike PF might) agreed to a speed run prior to joining so they should not be punished or picked on when never agreed to it beforehand.

The individual has same right as the others opposed to that individuals choice in my opinion so unless the entire group is in agreement then it won't be a speed run if I am tanking it. Mob rule and bullying will not be accepted in groups I tank for of which you can probably kick me using that mob rule but I will not betray my own principles in such situations and would rather be kicked forcing you to find another tank instead of being complicit in bullying another player who never agreed to speed run before entering the dungeon.

I have no issue with people who are unskilled, not confident, or whatnot. However, I do have a problem with someone adamantly refusing to participate or perhaps try something new purely because it's not what they want. That, is selfishness. If your group is doing something, and you're in DF, you need to bite the bullet, and work like a team. To cooperate. It's not about you. It's about US.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

lol, I only use this "Tactic" when I get a Smart Axx Tank or Evil Troll Healer who thinks everything gotta be a speed run. You'll know if I mean business if I'm in AF gear with my level 60 bow. Better go slow. lol

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I wonder, if we started a totally different discussion insid this thread, if half the people would even read it, since you and I are quoting each other now.

and good to know, if I see you in AF, and you haven't said anything in party chat to me, you're geting a lecture missy! hahahaa.

:S

We also still need to run a dungeon or raid using the PSN party! that way if I go to fast you can literally SAY "Hi Misen to F yourself" hahaha

@Dashuto: I agree with your last statement, however I have been called out many,many times for putting my parties in jeopardy using holy. Tanks flip out if they go below 50%.(I dont think they realize I can bene anytime during holy.) The problem with all of this is that White Mages are now damned if they do and damned if they dont...so I now have to ask what is expected of me every run because clearly not everyone shares your opinion. Calling a healer bad because they choose not to deal damage is wrong in my opinion. It takes a while to get a feel for "stance dancing", but once you do it adds a new and enjoyable element to the job. What really annoys me is that as healers we are expected to heal and do damage, yet most players dont even have enough consideration to move out of an aoe. There needs to be more consideration on both sides.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindylou

agree with op 100%

this is the type of player attitude se needs to LISTEN to and build content around

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You want se to build their content using the lowest common denominator of the population? No thanks. Se should build it around to people who wants to do either speed run or normal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noni

Calling a healer bad because they choose not to deal damage is wrong in my opinion.

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I called them rude in this thread. I have never called a healer bad in party for not using holy. Actually, at the start of dungeons I usually ask if they want foe or not, when DPS does not include smn/blm. If they don't answer or say no then I drop it, that is the full extent of my party interaction on the matter.

I agree with what you're saying about damned if they do and damned if they don't. There's a definite expectation there now, /especially/ from the tanks. Its compounded by the fact you'll see tanks that don't pop any defensive cooldowns when they super pull, expecting the clutch holy as they finish their run. Benediction does not have such a timer, but without playing white mage- they would never know. So instead they just get ticked!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

My point is that a) the game should be played as intended, b) no one should be made to play in a way that they are uncomfortable with, and c) no one should be harassed because they do not meet the expectations of another for playing.

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What if the party is uncomfortable with how you want to play? Aren't you doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing? Forcing your playstyle onto the rest of the party.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

What if the party is uncomfortable with how you want to play? Aren't you doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing? Forcing your playstyle onto the rest of the party.

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You haven't been reading the thread. That's "not their problem".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daranion

No you're not, but you're also not trying your best

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This is so bogus. First of all "best" is NOT even properly defined. They are trying their best to not wipe the party. This just an irresponsible snipe at the OP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyni

...
Point- it goes both ways and both sides need to learn to compromise and stop acting entitled and selfish.

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Too many people fall for this bogus false equivalenve over and over. Look you cannot push a string. The undergeared can't instantly be geared nor can the inexperienced become instantly experienced. Forcing them to compromise to go faster than they are able is wasting time from wipes to walk back. Other than the trolls, no one is sitting around AFK trying to be slow or wiping the party on purpose. Whereas, you can speed run only if everything lines up perfectly, but you can always go slower. Doing half pulls instead of full pulls will still be an efficiency improvement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

What if the party is uncomfortable with how you want to play? Aren't you doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing? Forcing your playstyle onto the rest of the party.

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More illogical false equivalance. You can not force people to not speed run, anymore than you force peoplpe to not wipe, but the flip side is very much possible and happen plenty of time, when people force speed runs, wipe party, and often followed by cussing up storm and then rage quitting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

My point is that a) the game should be played as intended, b) no one should be made to play in a way that they are uncomfortable with, and c) no one should be harassed because they do not meet the expectations of another for playing.
...
Frankly though, I really dislike speed runs, and especially forced speed runs. I do not find them enjoyable experiences, nor do I enjoy being abused by some dps who wants to push things by pulling the trash ahead of us to force the pace. If you want to go find fun new ways of doing things, go make a PF group for it, duty finder is meant to be there to help players find others to play with, so you can't expect players there to be ready for a mega pull or speed run.
....

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I actually find the speed run to be an interesting challenge, but I absolutely despise the speed runner. Especially the type that just runs off without a word and it is even more glaring when they speed off without protect. When that happens, I immediately switch to the new interesting challenge, i.e. what can I do the make sure the group survives but the speed runner dies. Watching the brazen DPS get toasted by mob is too easy and usually they are not brave to volunteer. Typically it is the speed running tank, so I'd E4E, reg, medica2, keep the rest of the party up and then holy spam until the mob is dead along with the tank preferably right at the last hit. Then they get to take the walk of shame back to group while I get to recover my MP.

I don't main heals, but rather I fit that "SMN healing" mode where I need to "always be casting", so it be either overhealing or better yet DPS. So if the tank want to pull big, they'd better be able to take the big bunches of hits so everyone else can max DPS right? ... But not really, then what kind of bogus speed run is this? Better try to communicate first and not be a bullheaded speedrunner. See the problem is not the speed run, but the speed runner, especially when they are non-communicative. What shame is there, or is it so hard to say, "may I pull big?" What are they scared someone one might say, "wait, benediction is still on cooldown" or "need more mp"?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dwill

You want brutal honesty ? You being uncomfortable with doing speed runs is not my nor anyone else's problem and it doesn't entitle you for me or other to accomodate your playstyle. Sorry but you're not that special.

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I hope you are not that unfortunate tank that will be making that walk of shame back to the party. Go ahead be silent, but you are not that strong, you'll be dead in the time I can get off one more holy. The healers are no more obligated to accomodate the stupidity of the big pull.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Talia_Hailwind

...
Its also a chicken and egg problem where you can't have one without the other,
People won't take you to coil without experience, but you need experience to actually beat coil. Go figure.

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This is why I always advocate that player need to be more open, inclusive, and accomodating. Stop calling people bad, fail, or "not trying their best". Different players are all at different levels of play, both gear and experience. The DF is not for speed runs. I still remember my firs time in WP, doing SCH healing, back when WP was the place people went for speed myth runs, that was before brayflox hm speed run was thing to do. I got vote kicked before the first boss as soon as everoyne wiped on that first big pull. I joined back and got the same group and the tank left after a few choice words, and the DPS kept on cussing at me. But the replacement tank we got, told the DPS to be be quiet and everyone needed a place to learn and gear up, and so this all part of that effort to pay it forward to help bring more players into the fold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noni

@Dashuto: Tanks flip out if they go below 50%.(I dont think they realize I can bene anytime during holy.)

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Dumb tanks. More people need to be like me. Speed run if you cna, have faith in your party. If you can't run the dungeon as fast as lightning and wipe, slow down. If you can't pull one set of mobs without wiping, or if you aren't clearing a boss fight, mabe you need to discuss what went wrong, if nobody up and apologizes for messing up.

Sometimes, people are rude to me, fo whatever reason. That's not going to change my pacing. If I feel as though i've done something wrong, i apologize.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dashuto

Forgive me Krosa, I will strive to create quality topics like yours about the race change and relationships. Aren't you and a special someone in Tepe now by the way? I hear such interesting things about that FC. Very interesting things.

---

You mean that it's an ERP FC that has a few of us that focus on endgame and tend to like the people in it rather than what they do in the FC mansion. Yeah, they're a colorful group definitely. Though rather off topic if I do say so myself.

Anyway, @ Cadmar; I am just curious as to know what you considered equipped. Do you mean gear ilvl in general, or party setup? I'm not trying to nitpick, but I've seen tanks who try to SR with the setup being MNK, NIN, WHM, PLD. Sure, everyone was geared to the 9s, but you can't really expect two more or less solely single target DPS classes to be able do big pulls effectively, and a WHM spamming holy isn't really going to help since the fights will take longer anyway due to the reasons stated before.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just wondering what equipped for means, because I do find it silly when a tank does try to do huge pulls with two single target DPSers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

Dumb tanks. More people need to be like me. Speed run if you cna, have faith in your party. If you can't run the dungeon as fast as lightning and wipe, slow down. If you can't pull one set of mobs without wiping, or if you aren't clearing a boss fight, mabe you need to discuss what went wrong, if nobody up and apologizes for messing up.

Sometimes, people are rude to me, fo whatever reason. That's not going to change my pacing. If I feel as though i've done something wrong, i apologize.

---

I wish more tanks were like you also.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

Dumb tanks. More people need to be like me. Speed run if you cna, have faith in your party. If you can't run the dungeon as fast as lightning and wipe, slow down. If you can't pull one set of mobs without wiping, or if you aren't clearing a boss fight, mabe you need to discuss what went wrong, if nobody up and apologizes for messing up.

Sometimes, people are rude to me, fo whatever reason. That's not going to change my pacing. If I feel as though i've done something wrong, i apologize.

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Thank you and anyone else I missed :3
Also I have to go, please have fun everyone!

I think the problem in this instance is communication. When the dungeon starts, everyone should communicate first. I don't mind speed runs, but do you know when i hate speed runs? when the dungeon starts and someone just takes off without saying anything and as soon as they pull a mob, a message pops up from someone else in the party saying they are new or they are lvling a new alt, so they want to fight as many mobs as they can. All it takes is communication. If the tank wants to do speed run, then say so before you pull a mob. If you want to fight all mobs or are learning the dungeon, say something so others can know.

I think SE should add something in for both types of players. Maybe like a weekly dungeon log similar to hunting log. Either have to kill certain mobs in dungeon for exp. boost or meet certain requirements in dungeons for exp bonus. For ex. complete dungeon in certain amount of time, receive bonus exp or tomes or allied seals. Or hunt certain mobs in dungeon for extra seals, etc. If SE adds these things to old dungeons, it will help make the experience less stressful for people on both sides. Im gonna pitch this to them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

I wonder, if we started a totally different discussion insid this thread, if half the people would even read it, since you and I are quoting each other now.

and good to know, if I see you in AF, and you haven't said anything in party chat to me, you're geting a lecture missy! hahahaa.

:S

We also still need to run a dungeon or raid using the PSN party! that way if I go to fast you can literally SAY "Hi Misen to F yourself" hahaha

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Lol, I think most people here just guess that I'm trolling, they just don't know that I really mean Business. When I see healers pull extra mods that the tank can't handle or the tank mega pulling and he/she cant keep hate....out comes the Low level set.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noni

I wish more tanks were like you also.

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Thank You! Updae my Sig <3 :P

I hate silent runs so much, as a tank if I don't get answers longer than 3 letters I will tank as I wish or ever been curious to try out ._. I hope people could try to have more chivalry, it will make the game more fun and nice to new content players, even for old players we all know we never get good results from somebody being a douche or even if we beat it it doesn't feel good or fun anymore when there's tension in a party it sucks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

You want se to build their content using the lowest common denominator of the population? No thanks. Se should build it around to people who wants to do either speed run or normal.

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Lowest common denominator? I can't stand people like you.

As far as building a game around speed running just lol. Ya, let's build a game with mechanics and then create a way for people to completely invalidate all those mechanics because, "AINT NO ONE GOTS TIME FO DAT!"

People who find their time that important usually are not playing a ******* video game. Get over yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

...You want se to build their content using the lowest common denominator of the population? No thanks.....

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What the heck is the "lowest common denominator"? Just trying to insult the rest of the playerbase.

If you think you are all that, there is always SCoB savage and FCoB for you. SE tries to provide a wide varierty of options. People should have to be forced into speed runs on DF. Create you own pre-formed party on the PF to do speed running and quit taking the rest of the player base for granted. They are not NPCs for you to abuse.

@JayCommon You should of left your reply blank and left it at that since the post above was about how hates silent treatment. I thought you was being very witty and amusing when thought you purposefully was making that sort of joke. Bit disappointed was just you trying to post image and not trying to be ironic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daranion

No you're not, but you're also not trying your best

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In regard to most of those examples in the OP, it actually is not only doing your best, but doing a better job than the speedrunning players who complain about it. Actually doing the content rather than trying to blow past it is far better gameplay.

[Haven't read the rest of the thread yet. This just kind of struck me at the beginning of it.]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

@JayCommon You should of left your reply blank and left it at that since the post above was about how hates silent treatment. I thought you was being very witty and amusing when thought you purposefully was making that sort of joke. Bit disappointed was just you trying to post image and not trying to be ironic.

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Lol, hmm guess that would have been a good idea.

Meh, I got frustrated because I was trying to make a meme at work, but my job blocks all of the sites and it didn't end up being what I wanted it to be.

...

Needless to say, it was about popcorn and this thread :\

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KodiHivaer

Anyway, @ Cadmar; I am just curious as to know what you considered equipped. Do you mean gear ilvl in general, or party setup? I'm not trying to nitpick, but I've seen tanks who try to SR with the setup being MNK, NIN, WHM, PLD. Sure, everyone was geared to the 9s, but you can't really expect two more or less solely single target DPS classes to be able do big pulls effectively, and a WHM spamming holy isn't really going to help since the fights will take longer anyway due to the reasons stated before.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just wondering what equipped for means, because I do find it silly when a tank does try to do huge pulls with two single target DPSers.

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Party composition has a lot to do with it. For me, 1-2 BLMs (at appropriate ilvl) automatically means speed run. SMN/BRD and 1 melee: probably speed run but I'll test it with a mid-range pull for the 1st one. 2 melee? Honestly, I find it easier to just pull one pack at a time and let them go to town. I'll typically stun the last mob and get that 6 second head start to the next pack that I should have waiting for them once they get there.

I should also mention.. that I do in fact typically ask what the party wants before I go. 9 out of 10 times I am asked for a speed run.

To both sides.

Don't like the way people play? Don't use the duty finder.

This is only an issue in the duty finder because your forced up with people who have a unknown skill set and attitude.

This is a mmo people try playing it like one and find people who share your aspirations or lack thereof. If you group with randoms this is the result.

I know SE makes this game hard to actually form a community, but crying about random people solves nothing. Ask for better community tools if you feel left out of the accepted norms of the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

Lol, hmm guess that would have been a good idea.

Meh, I got frustrated because I was trying to make a meme at work, but my job blocks all of the sites and it didn't end up being what I wanted it to be.

...

Needless to say, it was about popcorn and this thread :\

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At.....AT WORK!!?

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...1C6CB75C31E360

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jynx

...
Don't like the way people play? Don't use the duty finder.
....

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The is some utter crap. The DF is not for speed running. Do not expect to speed run on the DF, it is a bonus to be able to get speed run on DF for those that like it. Do expect to communicate and player nice and play together with others, and not go around calling people names like "fail".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

The is some utter crap. The DF is not for speed running. Do not expect to speed run on the DF, it is a bonus to be able to get speed run on DF for those that like it. Do expect to communicate and player nice and play together with others, and not go around calling people names like "fail".

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Where is it stated anywhere that the DF is not to be used to speed run? Can you clearly define what I am supposed to use it for? I have not been able to locate that specific set of instructions thus far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ladyaceous

At.....AT WORK!!?

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...1C6CB75C31E360

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LMAO!

You would be amazed at what I get paid to do. I would outsource myself if they would just PROMOTE ME ALREADY!

;)

We all know DF is a quick way to gather random people together easy access to content the down side to this is mention by OP those random people telling each other people how they should or shouldn't play, neither side is wrong just not different playing types. My suggestion is more people need to use PF more often and use DF as last option, but also to look for like minded people to go do content with each other some people do already I believe, but most I've seen on my PF listing is all end game rarely regular dungeon request.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cadmar

Where is it stated anywhere that the DF is not to be used to speed run? Can you clearly define what I am supposed to use it for? I have not been able to locate that specific set of instructions thus far.

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Simple, it's not, and you're debating with somebody who thinks everybody has to conform to their opinion. I bet even Yoshi-P does speed runs, if he didn't want them in the game the ilvl sync would be lower than 110.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

What the heck is the "lowest common denominator"? Just trying to insult the rest of the playerbase.

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Ok I'll sweetie I'll quote you but this is for the sweetheart above you too. Did you bother reading the last part? I said to design for both people who wants to do either speed run or normal. Not just one or the other. And what do I mean by the lowest common denominator? The people who do the minimal required to finish a dungeon. Believe it or not only a few people belongs in that category. I've seen a lot more healers dpsing and stuff, dps using mantra and other stuff to help the healer. Tanks using their CDs to help the healers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cadmar

Where is it stated anywhere that the DF is not to be used to speed run? Can you clearly define what I am supposed to use it for? I have not been able to locate that specific set of instructions thus far.

---

Where is it stated that you do NOT use toilet water for washing your hair? Or maybe you are bald so your head. You be hard pressed to locate instructions against that.

And where is it ever stated that the DF was ever intended for speed runs? Get real. It take random luck to get a group that can and wants to do speed run on the DF, but to demand it, or expect it is out of the question. And definitely do NOT insult people that go less than warp speed 9.99 on the DF.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

.... And what do I mean by the lowest common denominator? The people who do the minimal required to finish a dungeon. ...

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And so they get the clear without wipe, so what is problem? Why do they need to cater to the speed runner? Get a pre-formed party and speed run to your hearts content, just don't expect the DF to get you a speed running party, that is not its purpose.

http://i.imgur.com/s3CnCcE.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Where is it stated that you do NOT use toilet water for washing your hair? Or maybe you are bald so your head. You be hard pressed to locate instructions against that.

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lol this has nothing to do with how this game is intended to be played. Typical that you can't come up with any actual facts so you just throw out a random example of something completely irrelevant to the conversation and pretend it proves your point.

The person asked where you got your information so why don't you try answering the actual question?

You ask where is it ever stated that DF is for speed runs but you cannot provide any information about where it is ever stated that DF is only for slow runs either.

Personally I say that DF is for both types of runs, and it's up to the people playing the game to decide how they're going to play it. If the devs absolutely think something should be done a certain way then they would do something to prevent it from being done the wrong way. They added an ilvl sync of 110 to dungeons that wouldn't be challenging past i70 so I think their actions speak louder than your words.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Where is it stated that you do NOT use toilet water for washing your hair? Or maybe you are bald so your head. You be hard pressed to locate instructions against that.

And where is it ever stated that the DF was ever intended for speed runs? Get real. It take random luck to get a group that can and wants to do speed run on the DF, but to demand it, or expect it is out of the question.

---

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/1f/1f42c...95967dd093.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

Ok I'll sweetie I'll quote you but this is for the sweetheart above you too. Did you bother reading the last part? I said to design for both people who wants to do either speed run or normal. Not just one or the other. And what do I mean by the lowest common denominator? The people who do the minimal required to finish a dungeon. Believe it or not only a few people belongs in that category. I've seen a lot more healers dpsing and stuff, dps using mantra and other stuff to help the healer. Tanks using their CDs to help the healers.

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Yep you're right. That IS what you said. Normal runs AND speed runs.

Speed running is what happens when people over gear the content and/or figure out loopholes in simple mechanics. It is NOT what you design a game around.

What you are theoretically saying is SE should design the game so you can start today and be ilvl 3000 by tonight.

And I hate to break it to you (actually I don't), but the people who are "the lowest denominator" are very much the MAJORITY of their subscription base. So no, they are not going to design the game around the minority of their subscription base.

Keep dreamin.:rolleyes:

For some laughs on both sides expense :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzyUcXR05Z4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AJVlVuQcIo

Since I Duty Find almost everything. . . . (because, sadly, the people who I know, would be morepainful to run with than even random DF queues lol) most people in the DF seem to want to complete their duty, in a timel manner. Nobody ever seems to be upset for clearing a dungeon in only 20 minutes or less. People complain, when the run takes 30 min. 45 min. an hour+.

Yes, SE gives us 90 minutes. hat 90 minutes includes room for lots of wipes, and learning the mechanics of each boss. Guess what? Most of the bosses, I figured out their mechanics on the fly, with one or wo exceptions. So we don't really need 90 minutes.

If you really like spending time in tose dungeons, wh not do the same dungeon 9 times, 10 minutes a piece?

and, if your Duty-Found party members can't go that fast, yelling them isn't going to make them better. Look at what Fran does lolololol.

Just chill out, and play through he dungeon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

...hrow out a random example...
Personally I say that DF is for both types of runs, ...

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And you can use toilet water for drinking too while you are at it, I'm sure you've caught your pet cat or dog doing that and had to get into a habit of keeping the lid down. The DF is meant to bring players together to play together, not for players to abuse each other with forced speed runs. Even those with monkey butts for brains can understand that the DF is not designed for bring speed runners together, so it is unreasonable to expect to speed run on the DF, anymore can you expect to clear or much less 1-shot T9 on the DF.