Real Money to Get In-Game Currency: Eternal Bond Edition

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Originally Posted by chrillix

It's posts like this that seriously make me shake my head. What kind of development process are you guys using over there where not ONE person says "Hey, the way we're implementing this could create some serious issues." Perhaps someone did, and was ignored for whatever ridiculous reason. You cannot seriously believe that asking players politely not to do something will have the desired effect.

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What serious issues are being created? I'd like to hear this.

You people need to chill out. No gil is being generated here. All of it is simply changing hands. Supply -> Demand. Someone has something other people want to buy with gil, so they buy it. No "RMT" is happening here and it sounds like associating the term with this is causing the devs to misunderstand exactly what is happening.

If anything, you know what this really means? Something in the cash shop is attainable in-game for enough gil. How is that a bad thing? I thought you people wanted that.

I interpreted the dev response as "Well, we didn't expect people to start selling it. That's interesting. We need to look into whether this is good or bad before we act. If it IS bad, please stop propogating the problem until our fix."

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

Pretty much, Please stop so we don't have to spend time on a fix.

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"I won't sue you, but please stop hacking my servers and stealing my financial information. I would have to update my security architecture and NEITHER of us wants that!"

I mean, they could call it what it is, a mechanical exploit, and make doing it reportable. Which would stop 80% of the cases, because in order to sell these things, you have to post a pf listing or shout somewhere, which = dozens of reports from salty players.

Yea, gotta be honest that response is a bit of a troubling way to look at the situation. If they never intended for the bracelets to have the potency of being sold they should of easily seen what people would do for those who have the money to spend and thsoe who don't.

Quite honestly I'd still say so what if people want to sell it, maybe they have 100 dollars they don't mind buying for those who don't want to pay cash for those perks? Is it really that bad in perspective if people are just offering a service that isn't provided via gil by using their own money to help others who don't' want to spend cash on the perks?

SE at the end of the day is still making money off the service the only difference is players are acting as a middle man to provide a service for those who may not want to spend real cash on the extra services.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

babble babble

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Ah, but you forget that not every Gil seller is an actual business. There are individuals who also sell gil (a friend of a friend on FFXI used to do this to see his Canadian gf) and this is right up their alley.

The RMT gil businesses will thrive because people will need the larger amount of gil to afford the bands and the individual sellers will have another avenue to make gil.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

All of it is simply changing hands. Supply -> Demand. Someone has something other people want to buy with gil, so they buy it. No "RMT" is happening here and it sounds like associating the term with this is causing the devs to misunderstand exactly what is happening.

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Yes, this is RMT. Any time an exchange of goods happen with the use of real money to get gil, it's RMT. Normally it's backwards where people get gil for their real money but in this context, the real money gives gil in the hands of someone else. Also, look at intention. I highly doubt any of these people mass buying bracelets are doing it so the people who don't support the cash shop will still get a chance at marriage. They are doing so for an in-game profit. This is RMT with a different face.

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Originally Posted by Edeline

Buying overpriced items and rising the prices

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Its more smarter to buy cheap and sell high than buying high and selling even higher, that can easily backfire badly and you potentially lose more money instead gaining it.

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Originally Posted by Krr

I mean, they could call it what it is, a mechanical exploit, and make doing it reportable. Which would stop 80% of the cases, because in order to sell these things, you have to post a pf listing or shout somewhere, which = dozens of reports from salty players.

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OHMYGODTHIS. Add a T&C popup that the player agrees to in the mogstation and then handle it in reports.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

What serious issues are being created? I'd like to hear this.

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Well it's at least some kind of issue if SE felt the need to make a dev post about it, asking people not to take part in selling the bracelets for gil. MY issue, as a crafter, is that instead of having to put in-game time towards making gil anybody can now drop a hundred dollars on bracelets and sell them for gil with no in-game effort required.

Also, gil changing hands for real money is a serious issue, and at this point Bracelets basically equal real money.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

Yes, this is RMT. Any time an exchange of goods happen with the use of real money to get gil, it's RMT. Normally it's backwards where people get gil for their real money but in this context, the real money gives gil in the hands of someone else.

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Real money might have been used to obtain the item, but the item is the thing being exchanged for gil. It's not a guaranteed change, either and the value will fluctuate by demand.
Again, no gil is being generated by this. RMT is bad because bots are generating inhuman amounts of gil and introducing it into the economy by selling it to people through shady services that harvest their accounts.

This is just some guy plunking $20 on a ring and offering it up for sale.

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Originally Posted by chrillix

Well it's at least some kind of issue if SE felt the need to make a dev post about it, asking people not to take part in selling the bracelets for gil. MY issue, as a crafter, is that instead of having to put in-game time towards making gil anybody can now drop a hundred dollars on bracelets and sell them for gil with no in-game effort required.

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SE is responding because a large amount of people are talking about it. They haven't even admitted whether or not it's a problem yet. They're just being cautious right now, because a decision has yet to be made.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

As you know, the promise wristlets were designed to be tradable so that one person would be able to purchase a pair of wristlets and gift one to their partner.
While the trading and selling of these items for gil is not against the terms of service, in the event this type of trend continues and topics continue to arise regarding whether or not this is considered real-money trading, we will have no choice but to change the design of this system. Therefore we would like players to stop selling and trading the bracelets for gil so that they can continue to be used for their intended purpose.

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For future reference since the bracelets are going to be sold for gil regardless. All purchases should be made bound and other options need to be created for gifts. There should be an option to buy in pairs, where one is bound to you and the other trade-able and made bound to your significant other. Meaning whoever you trade it to is locked into getting married to you. If anyone wants to buy a gift for a friend at a later time, an option to do so in the cash store should be available where you enter their character name/server and the bracelet will be delivered to said person.

Boom, problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

Again, no gil is being generated by this. RMT is bad because bots are generating inhuman amounts of gil and introducing it into the economy by selling it to people through shady services that harvest their accounts.

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The majority of RMT botting in FFXIV is accomplished through covert marketboard use, though, because generating raw gil in FFXIV is inhumanly inefficient and time consuming even for them.

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Originally Posted by Krr

The majority of RMT botting in FFXIV is accomplished through covert marketboard use, though, because generating raw gil in FFXIV is inhumanly inefficient and time consuming even for them.

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And? What does cherry picking this detail change? If you're saying that RMTraders are generating no gil at all, then you're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

Real money might have been used to obtain the item, but the item is the thing being exchanged for gil. It's not a guaranteed change, either and the value will fluctuate by demand.
Again, no gil is being generated by this. RMT is bad because bots are generating inhuman amounts of gil and introducing it into the economy by selling it to people through shady services that harvest their accounts.

This is just some guy plunking $20 on a ring and offering it up for sale.

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SE has always had a stance that people cannot profit via the use of real money. These people are profiting from their shortsightedness as they are making gil without ANY actual effort. They are paying to win at this point as well. Whether or not the gil is being generated is not the issue here. The issue is as Chrillix says, it's someone not actually doing anything in-game and making gil for it.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

Real money might have been used to obtain the item, but the item is the thing being exchanged for gil. It's not a guaranteed change, either and the value will fluctuate by demand.
Again, no gil is being generated by this. RMT is bad because bots are generating inhuman amounts of gil and introducing it into the economy by selling it to people through shady services that harvest their accounts.

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I have never once argued that this is generating gil. My problem is with the fact that you can indirectly buy gil (generated or not) with real money.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

And? What does cherry picking this detail change?

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Yes, I'm sorry. Saying 10% of RMT gil throughput is green gil as opposed to 100% is cherry picking and not a massive difference at all. A difference of up to 90%? Statistically insignificant.

I'm a bit confused as to the numbers. Why would people pay real money so that they can get in game gil so that they buy something without having to spend real money.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

As you know, the promise wristlets were designed to be tradable so that one person would be able to purchase a pair of wristlets and gift one to their partner.

While the trading and selling of these items for gil is not against the terms of service, in the event this type of trend continues and topics continue to arise regarding whether or not this is considered real-money trading, we will have no choice but to change the design of this system. Therefore we would like players to stop selling and trading the bracelets for gil so that they can continue to be used for their intended purpose.

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While I'm sure everyone appreciates this response, the active community on the forums is a small representation of the overall playerbase. A pleasant and polite request here isn't going to solve this problem. You will have to take action, period.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

There should be an option to buy in pairs, where one is bound to you and the other trade-able and made bound to your significant other. Meaning whoever you trade it to is locked into getting married to you. If anyone wants to buy a gift for a friend at a later time, an option to do so in the cash store should be available where you enter their character name/server and the bracelet will be delivered to said person.

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Players are putting up PFs asking people to marry them for just the items. So changing it like that would only stop players from buying it if they actually want to marry someone specific. Someone could still sell a marriage once a week per level 50 character they have. As for your second suggestion, that's the same thing we already have now, but there would be a higher risk of being scammed out of your 10mil or bracelet.

So wait... people are ANGRY that other people buy something using real money, selling it for in-game money, for something the angry people themselves don't want to PAY for with RL money but want?

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

As you know, the promise wristlets were designed to be tradable so that one person would be able to purchase a pair of wristlets and gift one to their partner.

While the trading and selling of these items for gil is not against the terms of service, in the event this type of trend continues and topics continue to arise regarding whether or not this is considered real-money trading, we will have no choice but to change the design of this system. Therefore we would like players to stop selling and trading the bracelets for gil so that they can continue to be used for their intended purpose.

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Good luck with that :(

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

Ah, but you forget that not every Gil seller is an actual business......but in this context, the real money gives gil in the hands of someone else ... This is RMT with a different face.

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RMT = real money trading.

Selling an item in game for in-game currency is certainly NOT RMT, it is in-game trading with in-game currency. Buying an item from the cash shop is NOT RMT. Buying the item from the cash shop and selling it for gil is loss making by individual players, who have managed to convert good RL money into gil while donating to SE. What it does is distort the distribution of gil for a short time, because the percentage of players with excess gil that can afford to part with that gil is very limited like the top 1% or so. For it to be affordable for large numbers of players the, converting $10-40 for nominal amount of gil like 500K is just ridiculous. This mad rush for converting wedding bands into gil is self-limiting and unsustainable.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

SE has always had a stance that people cannot profit via the use of real money. ...

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There is no profit when it is all in gil. The profit can only occur when you sell the gil to get real money and produce real profits. People trading on the MB can make gil gains all the time, you can even call that MB trade profitable. And getting gil in-game is far cry from pay-to-win, even if you can afford 110 crafted gear, the poetic gear and FCoB drops are at 120 and above.

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Originally Posted by KodiHivaer

So wait... people are ANGRY that other people buy something using real money, selling it for in-game money, for something the angry people themselves don't want to PAY for with RL money but want?

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I think that, if you clear away the anti-cash shop bits, the crux of the problem is that a way exists to exchange real cash for game cash which is something that Square doesn't want people to do.

Edit: A way that you can't get into any trouble over.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2638553

^ reposted here:

I don't understand why people have such issues with this. This should curb some of the incentive for people to buy botted gil.


Person A spends a great deal of time grinding in the game. Let's just say they are good at everything and they work really hard at it - crafting/gathering/desynth/spiritbonding/selling primals and coil fights/playing the market for capital gain/you name it- and this person A earns millions of gil doing all of these things. Time in the game is important to person A. He enjoys earning gil and is proud of his accomplishments in the game.

Person B spends a great deal of time grinding in real life. Maybe they built some kind of business and work really hard at it, whatever it is that they chose to do - and this person B earns hundreds of thousands of dollars doing what he does. This person works hard doing whatever it is that he chose to do. Maybe this person has a family and decides that although he likes to play this game, time in his career and family is more important to person B than time grinding for things in the game. He enjoys his life irl and is proud of his accomplishments there.

Persons A and B both want to enjoy whatever aspect of the game they choose. They just have two distinct paths of doing exactly the same thing. Person A would rather spend his time playing the game grinding than grinding in real life for real money because the game is way more enjoyable to him than whatever work he chose to do. Person B would rather spend his time earning real money because grinding for gil is less enjoyable for him. So with the real money he spent his time earning he pays for a wedding band and puts it up on the marketboard to make some gil. With the gil that person A spent his time earning he buys the wedding band because he doesn't want to spend real money on the game.

So person A wins because he didn't want to have to spend real money and he didn't have to. Person B wins because he didn't have to spend time grinding gil and he didn't have to. Square enix wins because they earned some revenue in this transaction. Persons A and B can both continue to enjoy the game even better than they otherwise would have because square enix is able to afford to invest even more into it from the extra revenue. Persons A and B win again because this takes away from the botters' market share of gil buying. This drives down the price that these botters can sell gil for because some percentage of the market for gil-buying is being satisfied due to the gil sale of these cash shop items. Would be cool if it lowered all the way down to breaking even for the botters what with subscription fees, etc. for all their bots vs. money made by their bots (which would put them bankrupt and out of business!!) Imagine an FFXIV experience with no spam bots!

Any haters will at least be able to agree with this let's count the wins: win-win-win-winwin-winwin. 7 wins is pretty good maybe even 8 because SE wins they don't have to spend as much resources banning bots! Now let's count the losses: ... 0?

Guys please take a step back and realize that the primary currency in life is time and we can all spend it however we choose :)

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Originally Posted by ManweSulimo

I don't understand why people have such issues with this. This should curb some of the incentive for people to buy botted gil.

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I'm not seeing it affecting the gil sellers at all. The players willing to buy gil aren't going to go to these lengths, they'll just buy gil. You may see people that are more risk-averse try this, but not the gil sellers normal customer.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

For future reference since the bracelets are going to be sold for gil regardless. They should either be bought in pairs, one bound to you and the other trade-able and made bound to your significant other or you should completely adjust the system to make all purchases bound to your account. If anyone wants to buy a gift for a friend, an option to do so in the cash store should be available where you enter their character name/server and the bracelet will be delivered to said person.

Boom, problem solved.

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What if people just say "Trade me the X Gil and I'll buy you the Bracelet"? You're ideas are not bad, but they aren't the solution either.

How about a combination of the two:

First off, Bracelets are sold in pairs. Let's assume player A wants to marry player B. In order for player A to marry player B he has to input the character name and server in the page. Once both Bracelets are delivered to player A (since he made the purchase), have the Bracelet from player A be untradable and unique (Idk if they're unique already, I haven't bought any of this wedding stuff), while making the second bracelet tradeable. Both of the bracelets would have some kind of stamp, that would restrict their use to the couple that it was bought for in the first place. This would prevent people from selling the bracelets to individuals they're not actually commited with, and stop most of the issue. Alternatively you could just make the second bracelet tradeable ONLY to the player that's written on the stamp (player B).

I don't know how hard that would be to code/implement in game, as I have no experience in programming or game development. Also there would still be the problem of people selling actual weddings, I've seen people on PF saying "Will marry any race/gender, PST for price". But I don't think there is a solution for people selling the WHOLE thing, wedding and everything.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

As you know, the promise wristlets were designed to be tradable so that one person would be able to purchase a pair of wristlets and gift one to their partner.

While the trading and selling of these items for gil is not against the terms of service, in the event this type of trend continues and topics continue to arise regarding whether or not this is considered real-money trading, we will have no choice but to change the design of this system. Therefore we would like players to stop selling and trading the bracelets for gil so that they can continue to be used for their intended purpose.

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Not to be rude or anything, but did the team really think the players wouldn't find a way to exploit this? come on..

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Originally Posted by ManweSulimo

I don't understand why people have such issues with this. This should curb some of the incentive for people to buy botted gil.

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I'm not wealthy enough to play F2P games.

Guess what happens to market if person B pays $ for whatever he wants in-game? Prices skyrocket. Materia costs 2m+. Believe me, you don't want to be that player A doing his Novus.

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Originally Posted by Metabug

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Guess what happens to market if person B pays $ for whatever he wants in-game? Prices skyrocket. Materia costs 2m+. ...

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Do prices skyrocket in real life? Only when monetary policy is screwed up and inflation is thru the roof. The prices will NOT skyrocket it will stabilize at the market rate that is reflective of the market. Obviously transitioning from a gil only market to market where real money and gil is convertible will have to have prices rebalanced for the newer market, but it is no different than th EU countries transitioning to the euro currency, it is all about monetary policy and management.

Yes, please patch this and start selling fashions and modern outfits on the cash shop. Hey, $1 vs 3mil gil?

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

snippity snip snip

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*this is a little harsh-ish I've realized after the fact. My apologies, NyarukoW*

You can spin it however you want; the end result is still real money being used to acquire in game gil. The individual transactions themselves are not the target of the discussion. It is buying the item from the Cash Shop and then selling it for gil. Both transactions combined make it RMT. Again, the size of your wallet is not supposed to be able to determine your in game performance, especially outside of the scope of the item purchased from the Cash Shop.

Gil can very directly determine your in game performance, and confer advantages. Whether it does or not is irrelevant. That the possibility exists creates the possibility of paying to win.

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Originally Posted by ManweSulimo

snippity snip snip

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I don't think buying gil is ever okay. How much you work in real life, and you money you earn therein, should not count as time being worked in the game. Your money in real life should not have an ability to affect your progress in game. Spending time in the game should be the only thing that does this. Nothing else, imo.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

As you know, the promise wristlets were designed to be tradable so that one person would be able to purchase a pair of wristlets and gift one to their partner.

While the trading and selling of these items for gil is not against the terms of service, in the event this type of trend continues and topics continue to arise regarding whether or not this is considered real-money trading, we will have no choice but to change the design of this system. Therefore we would like players to stop selling and trading the bracelets for gil so that they can continue to be used for their intended purpose.

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Others have already picked apart why this is a ridiculous stance to take, so instead I'm just going to offer up an equally absurd response:

I don't mind the occasional microtransaction, and I have money to burn. I also disagree with the ability to sell cash shop items in-game and disrupt the flow of gil. Since this isn't a bannable offense, and since the only way to put a stop to it is if it's being done often enough, I myself am going to start raking in gil by selling wedding bands to other players. I'll benefit both my in-game wallet and my personal values towards the cash shop, even if it means temporarily going against said values. Win-win!

(Fun fact: I am setting aside time I would have spent running clear / farming parties in order to use PF to perform these sales. So not only am I part of this problem, but I'm also detracting from the potential in-game activities on my server. Yay!)

I don't necessarily mind cash shops, however a large part of why I came to FFXIV is because it stood out as a last bastion of p2p purity in a market where more and more titles were adding microtransactions on top of subscription fees. So if I ever have a reason to weigh FF against playing another MMO, you can bet this whole thing will factor in.

That said, I can live with the mounts and minions. I'm not too thrilled about having premium services like the weddings, as it will make me question all future non-combat content (as many are right to do with Gold Saucer). The dyes are pushing my limit, but I'll live with it for now.

But interrupting the flow of gil in-game via RMT is ridiculous, and if it is not intended and is frowned upon severely enough that continued abuse will result in the system being modified, then it should not be allowed to continue in the first place.

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Originally Posted by ChibiChan_Hyperion

You can spin it however you want; the end result is still real money being used to acquire in game gil. ...

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Real money being used to acquire gil is NOT RMT no matter how you spin it. By buying the game and paying a subscription to SE, and being rewarded all the time in gil is all part of the game, and getting gil in game for you money is the default. It is using gil to acquire real money that makes it RMT. Gil sellers do this, and that is when it is RMT. Having only half of it is NOT RMT.

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Originally Posted by ChibiChan_Hyperion

I don't care how much you work in real life, it should not carry over and affect your performance in a game. Spending time in the game should be the thing that does this

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That is your stance, there is no truth or validity to this position. As much as I like to keep the two separate, to say only game time matters is unjustifiably unfair to those with limited play time, even the devs made this very clear, that players at all level and varying time investment levels should be all be able to have a good time, enjoy the game, and make progress at a reasonable rate. Additionally having real life friends join you in game is one of the obvious advantage of real life carrying over into game.

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Originally Posted by Crankysorc

stuff

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Originally Posted by MagicJohnson

stuff

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You wouldn't be able to get rid of abuse if they were bound/untrade-able either. You could give someone your user/password and have them buy the bracelet using their credit card. As long as they exist in the store, people will and can purchase them via gil using any of the methods fore-mentioned even though it would be a leap of faith to truth someone wouldn't scam. That being said, having to trust people with obscene amounts of gil would give some of these transactions disincentives and that's the only way to go about this.

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Originally Posted by Adrian74

Instead of making it tradeable, allow an input() field for the player to choose the name of the character he wants to gift these wristlets and a prompt to confirm the character name, and also the option to check the database and send an error message such as "The character name you entered doesn't exist in that world, please be sure of check world and character name again".

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Or what about the Mogstation having access to your character's friendlist? More than likely the person you'd be bonding with would already be on there and it would avoid any misspelling issues. (Because you KNOW people will and get huffy over it.) You're able to see your own friendslist on the Lodestone, so maybe this is possible.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Real money being used to acquire gil is NOT RMT no matter how you spin it. By buying the game and paying a subscription to SE, and being rewarded all the time in gil is all part of the game, and getting gil in game for you money is the default. It is using gil to acquire real money that makes it RMT. Gil sellers do this, and that is when it is RMT. Having only half of it is NOT RMT.

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Let's look at Square Enix's definition (the only one that matters): "RMT is defined as the selling and buying of virtual assets for real-world money."

Now let's look at a party finder entry: "WTS Promise of Devotion (Platinum) for 3m." Now let's simplify it to make it simple: "WTS $20 for 3m." So, here we have someone exchanging 3m of in-game currency for $20. I think this is pretty clear cut. As such, the seller is spending $20 to acquire the 3m gil. Following logically when reversed, the buyer has just sold 3m gil for $20. This is how some people are seeing it (including myself).

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

That is your stance, there is no truth or validity to this position. As much as I like to keep the two separate, to say only game time matters is unjustifiably unfair to those with limited play time, even the devs made this very clear, that players at all level and varying time investment levels should be all be able to have a good time, enjoy the game, and make progress at a reasonable rate. Additionally having real life friends join you in game is one of the obvious advantage of real life carrying over into game.

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You have mistaken my wording for a different meaning; I was saying that the time you spend working outside of the game should not somehow also progress your character in the game due to the time spent working outside of the game. I was not saying what you were implying here, the quoted user was trying to say they earned the cash outside of the game and should be able to use it as gil in the game. Which is not true, they should have to work for the gil in the game not outside of it. Edited to hopefully make more clear.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Selling an item in game for in-game currency is certainly NOT RMT, it is in-game trading with in-game currency. Buying an item from the cash shop is NOT RMT.

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Duh and more duh.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Buying the item from the cash shop and selling it for gil

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...IS RMT.
No matter how you babble on. Buying an item with real money for the express purpose of selling it for gil, IS RMT. It is a trade off made with real money. I don't care how you decide to twist it in your head, it is RMT.
The rest of the sentence is you literally wording it in a way that pleases your argument.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

What it does is distort the distribution of gil for a short time

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Also what happens to the in-game economy when RMT comes into play.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Real money being used to acquire gil is NOT RMT no matter how you spin it.

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Excep that this IS the actual definition of what RMT is.

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Originally Posted by ChibiChan_Hyperion

the size of your wallet is not supposed to be able to determine your in game performance

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

That is your stance, there is no truth or validity to this position.

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As Yoshi-P himself has stated. FFXIV is not a Pay to Win game. Given his own words, Ai Hana, your stance is the incorrect one. The size of your real life wallet and how it can profit you in this game, SHOULD NEVER come up.

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Originally Posted by Lior

Others have already picked apart why this is a ridiculous stance to take, so instead I'm just going to offer up an equally absurd response:

I don't mind the occasional microtransaction, and I have money to burn.

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Hell, ridiculous accelerationist disaster logic chains aside, this is literally my stance. If S-E isn't going to take official action against people exchanging $ for Gil using their own system, I'm going to make the game (and their jobs) that much more miserable by making my next paycheck's fun money portion go toward 3-5 million gil in my pocket. I'm not marrying anyone any time soon, and I've got a market curve to keep up with so I can afford mats/materia/etc to boost my economic standing ingame. If the first one goes over well, I might even buy a second to keep exploiting the system while it's broken! All S-E is really saying here is "Limited-time offer! $20 for 5,000,000 Gil!*"

(*Ingame market prices may vary!)

It's hunts all over again, except now with cash.

Am I the only one who think that SE knew this beforehand and already planned to have some GM make a politic correct reply so it looks like they really intend for this not to happen?

It's like how people still think it's hard for SE to track gil buyers.

I think the hype for these bracelets will go down quickly. At least people can have them w/o supporting the cash shop. Oh wait..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

As you know, the promise wristlets were designed to be tradable so that one person would be able to purchase a pair of wristlets and gift one to their partner.

While the trading and selling of these items for gil is not against the terms of service, in the event this type of trend continues and topics continue to arise regarding whether or not this is considered real-money trading, we will have no choice but to change the design of this system. Therefore we would like players to stop selling and trading the bracelets for gil so that they can continue to be used for their intended purpose.

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I'd be interested to see what kind of change in the system you could implement that would also cover the other cash shop item that falls under this: the dyes. I had a PF selling a metallic red dye when it turned out I could get away with using 1 less than I thought, held off in case it was determined to be against ToS.

Now finding out it isn't but with this weird "please don't do it" thing attached, not sure how I feel about that. I should still sell it honestly, because as stated earlier in this thread, a polite "please don't do this thing that's not against the rules" plea doesn't hold a lot of weight.

But it's funny, because one interpretation of Bayohne's post, and one I'm inclined to believe is what's actually going on, goes something like this: "It's not against ToS. But, it's making people whine A LOT on this forum. And it's annoying to listen to, so people stop giving them stuff to whine about, or we're going to have to wreck the system to get them to stop."

Because really, that's the only way you can say it's not against the rules but we'd like you to stop.

Trading Gil for cash shop purchased items does not create the $$ incentives that drive gil farmers to flood the economy with gil that leads to hyperinflation. I don't have a problem with it. It also gives access to cash shop items to those players that do not want to spend their own RL $$ on "optional" items (whatever their reasons may be).