Isn`t just vanity. Is 2 diferent experiences and thats why is bad.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Extra paid retainers allow players to gather more mats in ventures, not just quick ventures which are also an extra gamble chance on their own, to craft more items, and also give them up to 40 additional Marketboard slots to sell more of those items make even bigger profits. If that isn't borderline P2W, I really don't know anymore.

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It's like I said, things that benefit DoL and DoH are pay to win, they have a direct impact to the game. There're several mats that drop from dungeons or have a very low rate. While you can send the all your retainers and get them for you instead. It kinda gives you an advantage over other players. Of course it's limited by ventures, but you can manage that pretty well. And I can say that because I personally bought an extra retainer since I was running out of space, then I realized the benefits of having 3 guys collecting mats for me while I do other content.

the main trouble is what can happend if we don't say: "stop this now". you can say it's a what if... however we have precedence... we can see what they begin to plan.
then what you want we do? do we must accept to have a freemium experience into a p2p game? because this eternal bonding mess is a freemium experience.

the freemium allows you to get acces to all the content of the game... well actually it's a lie, you get acces to a... "lesser experience", if you want to get the full acces to the experience, you need either to subs or to buy a pack.
sadly we are already paying a subs, then they have gone with the pack solution. people say that Yoshida have said that the shop will allows them to make more content... seriously? i want to know something where is gone all the subs they have receive in the past year? because 1 million people paying a subs at 12 dollars means 12 millions of dollars earn per month (and we know it's far more)

i'm not stupid to think they don't invest money into the paycheck of the dev or the maintenance or the..."server". but we are 14 month (we must take out 1 month for the free month of the new player) since the release of ARR, i don't need to make math for show you how much money was gathered by them. THEY did give this number to them shareholder and can be acces to anybody on them website. the question is, why do they need the cash shop?

Final Fantasy XIV: a Realms Reborn is a succes! is not me that say it, but a lot of people. can we really "believe" that they need the cash shop for get more feature into the game?

i have said it into another thread, but player of mmorpg are not really different of the shareholder that invest money into a company like SE. instead to look for a benefit in money, we look for a benefit in gaming experience. every month, each player invest money into the game and expect to get a return onto that investement. however, the arrival of this "possible" abuse that it's the difference between normal, gold and platinum eternal bond... is something that is bad, really bad... it will have a big impact on the game, i don't say it will lead to a massive leave of the player (even if some player have already said that they want leave) but it will lead to a distrust between SE and him playerbase.

the question is more about do they want to loose the trust of them main investor (the players) of Final Fantasy 14: a Realms Reborn? because it's the player that make this game running, indeed dev add content, but if we are not enough for pay every month, you can be sure that quality and the quantity of the content added will fall drastically.

ps: and for the cash shop defender, i want to ask them do you really think that the cash shop will not deserve more that it will help FF14 on the long terms? that another good question that needed to be asked.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Why do you think you can't start the game as a DoH or a DoL class and must instead wait until you're level 10 in a DoW/DoM class to unlock DoH/DoL? If those were meant to be the main purpose of the game, you would be allowed to start as those classes right from character creation... but you can't. Not only that, but a large number of ingredients for crafting classes are enemy or dungeon drops.

It's hardly "my own personal definition" when the game itself forces you to engage in at least a minimal amount of combat even for those classes.

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I suppose combat is not the main part of the game then, because without crafters, you can't even get your oh-so-iconic relic weapon. And according to your definition, every combat class is a "main" thing in this game, but Rogue/Ninja isn't, because you can't pick it at level 1. Yes, it is your own personal definition, and your attempts to justify it are pretty poor.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

I suppose combat is not the main part of the game then, because without crafters, you can't even get your oh-so-iconic relic weapon.

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Relic weapons aren't a requirement. You could outfit yourself entirely with weapons from Coil/Primal drops if you want without ever touching a relic weapon. I know several people who have done just that.

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And according to your definition, every combat class is a "main" thing in this game, but Rogue/Ninja isn't, because you can't pick it at level 1.

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Which will almost certainly be changed in either an upcoming patch or Heavensward once they work out things like crossclass skills. Rogue/Ninja is the odd duck right now in numerous ways due to it being a brand new class, and I suspect there is a considerable amount of coding that will need to be modified in order to make it a starting class like the others.

@LunaHoshino: without be insulting, aren't you a bit selfish? i means you want to force your own view of the game into the other...
each player is free to do whatever they want in the game and you have no right to define what it's.... them pleasure.

i know people spending time to complete the achievement, other that prefere spend time control the market, and other spend time and gils into them housing, and other people prefering working on them skin....

you have tons of way to enjoy the game... your are not the only one! respect the other pleasure as they respect your.

thanks.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Slepnir mount was on databases before the cash shop was even told to be added, back in the time when yoshida said it wasn`t going to be one. Slepnir mount was probably a possible Odin`s Mantle reward but then was probably reconsidered as Trial Mount reward and then, crap, Cash Shop becomes something, quickly grab something to put in there! and there you go. And something similar must have happend to minions and probably will happen from now on, as you will see, the cash shop filling with items that are in no way special and have no reason at all to be in the game in the first place.

A regular, even for all wedding would be perfect. Far better than having 2 divided experiences by wallet in a P2P game.

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I see the problem with your argument. Nothing but conjecture.

Aren't you the same guy who was defending WoW's level booster as healthy? So skipping 90 levels of content by money isn't p2w by your definition but marriage system is?

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

@LunaHoshino: without be insulting, aren't you a bit selfish?

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Funny because I can say the same thing to most of you...
I'm not saying this because I'm pro Cash Shop(I'm not) or acting as if I'm tossing money at Squenix(I'm not) or any other nonsense like that...but throughout the past few weeks(From the Wedding Debacle to the Cash Shop), I have noticed the "With Us or Against Us" philosophy being used with extreme prejudice while trying to hide under saying you want your voices to be heard.

Anyone who DARES say they have no issue with the Cash Shop or even plan on spending money, you have people outright demonize them for it. When you had people ask for ways to get past costumes they couldn't obtain, you had people go nuts on them. Hell, I just seen someone basically say they quit the forums because someone DARES wants to buy the Gold Package of the Wedding simply because he chose to.

And here's the core problem: You guys are basically saying "Be with us or **** you!" in no uncertain terms. Anyone with a brain can see how absolutely ridiculous this is and it's just as obvious as how many times people keep on saying "If this happens, this will SURELY happen, I SWEAR it will" without no real proof that it is past...it is. "But we guessed a Cash Shop was gonna happen." And a Cash Shop has been in virtually every P2P MMO(Korean Blade & Soul has one, World of Warcraft has one, Aion both versions have one, and I believe Korean TERA has one too), so yeah, to not see a Cash Shop coming at all is just silly.

"But we poked around in the files and saw the Slepnir Mount" Here's some news for you guys: Some things that are in the code...are probably just things in the code that got left in the cutting room floor, it doesn't mean it WAS or IS anything. Final Fantasy XIII had 2 bosses(Prototype Anima and Ereshkigal) in the game, along with Anima's boss location which instead got recycled in FFXIII-2 and LR:XIII, never got re-implemented back into their games. So what does that say about Slepnir? That they most likely had the mount data around, but had no idea of what to do with it. It doesn't mean anything because as Alexander points out, it's all MAYBE, there is no TRUTH, just POSSIBILITIES.

At this point, I wonder when you guys will finally realize that the reason you guys come off as ridiculous...is because you are. Tone yourself down and maybe people can actually listen, but at this rate...thank god you guys aren't the majority...

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Originally Posted by Xhominid

awesome.

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/slowclap

Bravo. Seriously. Thank you for that post

Yeah how dare those f2p mmo have a cash shop I mean jeez... Wow is the only one who does and it's pretty plain to see ffxiv is following the same suit.
Popular franchise with rabid fans check
Fan service everything check
Tons of profit check
Of course this wedding is a whole new thing I haven't seen in mmo but good for se. I'm sure they will be making money hand over fist with it at the end day.
Edit
Eve has a cash shop but you can also buy play time with gold so it's pick your poison

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Originally Posted by Mook_Mook

snip

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The Korean versions of Aion and TERA is still P2P, so is Blade and Soul. So that doesn't work considering that they still have cash shops installed so it's actually only the other territories that they are F2P.

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Originally Posted by Thistledown

Aren't you the same guy who was defending WoW's level booster as healthy? So skipping 90 levels of content by money isn't p2w by your definition but marriage system is?

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now you got my attention, care to share the source and why do you think he is the same person ?

Ps: only quote the text, don't include name (nick name, in game name), picture or any link :)

Might aswell put coil behind cash shop considering how many people have cleared it or even set foot in it.
Its clearly optional.

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Originally Posted by Fue

Might aswell put coil behind cash shop considering how many people have cleared it or even set foot in it.
Its clearly optional.

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Exactly. Everything doable in the game is optional. Why not pay for openeing the Market? Its clearly optional, no?
Tbh im skipping the marriage system most probably. I dont want a half-ass variant, and i cant afford to pay 50 bucks for a ingame Event in a game im allready paying for.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

Exactly. Everything doable in the game is optional. Why not pay for openeing the Market? Its clearly optional, no?
Tbh im skipping the marriage system most probably. I dont want a half-ass variant, and i cant afford to pay 50 bucks for a ingame Event in a game im allready paying for.

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Everything is doable without ninja aswell so you could put that in cash shop aswell.
Its optional.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

now you got my attention, care to share the source and why do you think he is the same person ?

Ps: only quote the text, don't include name (nick name, in game name), picture or any link :)

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Diferences:

1.- All those items are MADE FOR the Cash Shop. The other are account optional services, even the booster, which is more decent than anything in FFXIV anyway.
2.- None of those items belong to an in-game experience.
3.- None of those items generate the feeling of "free" vs "premium" experience.

Level booster is far more "healthy" for a game than the marriage fiasco we are seeing.

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it's on the same forum, heh.

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Originally Posted by Thistledown

it's on the same forum, heh.

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can miss one or two thing on the forum now a day, thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xhominid

The Korean versions of Aion and TERA is still P2P, so is Blade and Soul. So that doesn't work considering that they still have cash shops installed so it's actually only the other territories that they are F2P.

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Ummmm no, no they aren't.
Korean and Japanese versions Tera went F2P before Europe and America's version went F2P soon after.

Blade and Soul is P2P still with a CS, but because china's version is under a different publisher it's F2P.

Want proof before you say "You're wrong!" ?
My fiancee' writes for mmosite...

Look guys, you're welcome to trek to the local watering hole to get some water that is hopefully clean.

Me? I'll just buy some from the shop thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by Jeckyl_Tesla

Look guys, you're welcome to trek to the local watering hole to get some water that is hopefully clean.

Me? I'll just buy some from the shop thank you very much.

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Meh. Ill just use this clean water that's already included in the rent thank you very much.

Just a question we have to go to mogstation for the "free" version as well right? so who is to say the one package won't be for in game currency and the other cash shop? just asking. Would love to hear from a dev though thanks.

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Originally Posted by craig_meredith2003

Just a question we have to go to mogstation for the "free" version as well right? so who is to say the one package won't be for in game currency and the other cash shop? just asking. Would love to hear from a dev though thanks.

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GET YOUR LOGIC AND REASON OUT OF HERE! IT'S NOT WELCOME ON THESE FORUMS!! HOW DARE you?!

/sarcasm That's honestly a pretty good thought, they didn't exactly SAY that either would be real money, anyways. This forum loves to create rants and rage based around conjecture.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Slepnir mount was on databases before the cash shop was even told to be added, back in the time when yoshida said it wasn`t going to be one. Slepnir mount was probably a possible Odin`s Mantle reward but then was probably reconsidered as Trial Mount reward and then, crap, Cash Shop becomes something, quickly grab something to put in there! and there you go. And something similar must have happend to minions and probably will happen from now on, as you will see, the cash shop filling with items that are in no way special and have no reason at all to be in the game in the first place.

A regular, even for all wedding would be perfect. Far better than having 2 divided experiences by wallet in a P2P game.

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Odin is set to release in 2.5, who is to say we cannot get Sleipnir then?

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

I have a question for you all...seriously I would like to hear whatpeople have to say.

... do you really need a ceremony to formalize this? you know buying a house can be done independent of the marriage, it can be done with money one of you buy and you both live there, you can share the same house, share things as if you were married...


Mei

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Actually no. We can buy houses seperately, but not share it, I can't use anything in my friends house. So I would expect this to be possible when "bonded" in the game though...
I do get your point thought... I still love the thought of getting married in the game, I don't even RP either. But I've been playing online with a very special person for over 3 years now, and I think it would just be really nice to celebrate it with this eternal bond. I wouldn't need the ceremony, the official invitations etc. I do however would like mount and minion to just show that it did happen...

Aside from that I do also wish they wouldn't make a premium version of the whole thing... just because it's simply not nice to separate between rich and poor in games.

Alright here is my impression of what is different between the free version and the payed version:
Free Version

• The ceremony
• The venue
• A dress for the bride
• outfit for the groom
• rings
• scheduling of event
• pick an npc to officiate

Payed version

• All the stuff in free version
• An additional selection of dresses for the bride
• a minion
• a mount

So you still get everything just minus an additional selection of a wedding dress, no minion and no mount. So the OP's picture examples is wrong. And I honestly see no problems with charging a little something for extra optional fluff.

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Originally Posted by Fue

Meh. Ill just use this clean water that's already included in the rent thank you very much.

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My house unfortunately doesn't have the cleanest tap water around. Drinking it is a no-no for me.

First off...i don't really care if SE charges us to marry or not...cant change it anyway.
But...what i really don't get is....why are allways the same category of gamers to be fooled?!? (Sorry, dunno if this is correct english, its not my main language). I mean...there are many types of gamers. Raider, crafter, gatherer, grinder, collector, roleplayer, Afk-ppl (lol)...whatever. No one of those types should be treated better than another. Everyone has its own reasons to play and everyone has their own goals. Why are allways the collectors (of minions, mounts, vanity) that have to pay more than the rest of the players to achieve their goals. I hear allways "its no P2W, so its ok". But for those players it is a "win" to get a new mount f.e. So for them it is P2W. Its allways them, who have (yes i know...u will say "No, they don't have to!") pay for their goals, not the crafter have to buy extra mats or the raiders, who gotta buy coil access (or w/e). Nope...its the "silly so called casuals"...and all the other types of gamer can come and make fun of them (because they whine)...sure...THEY don't have to pay for their goals, so its easy for them to live with the shop.
Well...just wanted to say that...and no, im not one of the collector type ppl. But i think many of the cashshop supporter here would act different, if SE would put stuff in the shop what affects their goals.

I cannot be the only one here who is laughing at everyone else's skewed definition on what winning means. It sounds like a flimsy excuse to justify why people should get everything in the game without paying a dime because "personal" reasons.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I cannot be the only one here who is laughing at everyone else's skewed definition on what winning means. It sounds like a flimsy excuse to justify why people should get everything in the game without paying a dime because "personal" reasons.

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Enlighten us, then. How do you "win" an MMORPG?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I cannot be the only one here who is laughing at everyone else's skewed definition on what winning means. It sounds like a flimsy excuse to justify why people should get everything in the game without paying a dime because "personal" reasons.

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Come back and speak again when your "personal" "definition" of "win" is only achievable via cash shop.

The fact that people are trying to skew what winning means makes it silly. You don't "win" from collecting things. You don't "win" from getting a class to level 50. You can consider those goals achievements since you achieved a goal, but it ain't winning by a long shot. You want to win at something? You have to beat something, whether in a contest or in a fight. There has to be a conflict. No conflict? Then there's no win condition. That's straight out of the dictionary, not Jimmy's personal book of what things mean to him because of reasons. I'm sure I would get very far calling people a bunch of racial slurs and tell them that they can't get mad cause I'm using the word in a way that is not offensive in "my terms".

I'd be less condescending if people just straight out admit that they don't want to buy something at the shop because it's not worth the money instead of making convoluted excuses. Things are expensive in life. We all don't want to buy everything under the sun but making up excuses to justify why something is bad in your eyes makes you dishonest.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

You don't "win" from getting a class to level 50.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

You want to win at something? You have to beat something, whether in a contest or in a fight. There has to be a conflict.

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Don't know about you, but I beat a lot of monsters in a fight while leveling to 50. So if being able to beat some monsters without paying real cash means it's not pay to win, you just enabled SE to sell us ilvl 9000 items, because we can still "win" without them.

Care to explain that? Because I fail to see how beating monsters without using real money equates to Square selling power. Get to the point, please. Thanks!

Oh man I bet companies love you, which company woudnt want a customer who can be skewed out of every nickel they have.

Also Gold Saucer incoming, it's pretty naive to think it wont have something affected by the cash shop.
Players with gamblers addiction + cash shop?.....yeah right I woudn't want to miss that chance either if I were SE.

I recommend everyone goes and watches South Park episode "Freemium isn't free".....or in this case P2P...does the term pay-to-plemiun exist?

No one will ever "win" this discussion.

How about we call it "Pay to reach your goal" ?

In a F2p Fps you pay for better weapons and shit to reach your goal - winning.
Here you need to pay to get pets and mounts - and reach your goal: collecting them.

That sounds better actually.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

How about we call it "Pay to reach your goal" ?

In a F2p Fps you pay for better weapons and shit to reach your goal - winning.
Here you need to pay to get pets and mounts - and reach your goal: collecting them.

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+1 good point.

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Originally Posted by Blackweaver

Alright here is my impression of what is different between the free version and the payed version:
Free Version

• The ceremony
• The venue
• A dress for the bride
• outfit for the groom
• rings
• scheduling of event
• pick an npc to officiate

Payed version

• All the stuff in free version
• An additional selection of dresses for the bride
• a minion
• a mount

So you still get everything just minus an additional selection of a wedding dress, no minion and no mount. So the OP's picture examples is wrong. And I honestly see no problems with charging a little something for extra optional fluff.

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Well I know A LOT of people who've been wanting to marry mainly for the mount, which was the FIRST thing that was promoted when the whole wedding thing started to be talked about... before there was a cash shop. So I'm sure (me included) people expected to get this when they get married plain and simple, no matter HOW they get married.
I don't so much have a personal problem with paying "a little something" for it, unless it's a very unreasonable amount I'll gladly pay and support the game... BUT I know people that simply can't even though they would if they could...

Again I'm betting one version will be cash shop and the other will be gil /jmho.