XIV: P2P or F2P? XI never has Cash Shop, why XIV has?

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Originally Posted by Roris

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Tbh considering vanity an advantage is a bit silly. What are you gaining advantage over? Oh wow you have an ok looking body piece...now go clear Final Coil with nothing but that vanity armor on.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Tbh considering vanity an advantage is a bit silly. What are you gaining advantage over? Oh wow you have an ok looking body piece...now go clear Final Coil with nothing but that vanity armor on.

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Arguing for the sake of arguing really, when all they have to do is simply not purchase it to prove their point.

If people don't want to pay for it, they won't and SE will avoid adding more. Numbers don't lie.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Just because your gameplay doesn't involve collecting minions, mounts and other vanity items doesn't mean it's not part of the gameplay too. If they didn't want us to collect all the vanity stuff, then why put their systems and so many of them in the game in the first place, including guides to track the progress towards obtaining all of them?

Checkmate cash shopists.

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Do you remember when they originally revealed minions.

Basically what they said was, they were to be used as either rewards or fun things to collect, as they had a low production value.
If you ever once thought "They'd never add this to a cash-shop", then you clearly weren't here on launch with the rest of us.


I can understand that what you want to do is collect minions, mounts and maybe other stuff in the future, but if it hinges so much on the fact that you don't want to pay for it, then simply DO NOT pay for it.

Numbers speak louder than words in the world of business.

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Originally Posted by Roris

"Look I bought a cool horse and you don't have a cool horse, look at how cool my horse is and you don't have one but I do." While not everyone who purchases from a cash shop might think like this, it's one of the major obvious bases on which cash shops are built upon. People will buy shiny things to have more shiny things than others, therefore having an advantage at least collector or ego wise.

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It's something we just have to deal with or buy into.

I genuinely dislike it, but I know just from walking around and seeing the minions and mounts that it's here to stay and that they'll add more, so for now it's just a "WELP".
Once I see something I find worth the money I'll probably buy into it as well, there's literally no point in me or anyone arguing the fact.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Tbh considering vanity an advantage is a bit silly. What are you gaining advantage over? Oh wow you have an ok looking body piece...now go clear Final Coil with nothing but that vanity armor on.

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"Look I bought a cool horse and you don't have a cool horse, look at how cool my horse is and you don't have one but I do." While not everyone who purchases from a cash shop might think like this, it's one of the major obvious bases on which cash shops are built upon. People will buy shiny things to have more shiny things than others, therefore having an advantage at least collector or ego wise.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Basically what they said was, they were to be used as either rewards or fun things to collect, as they had a low production value.
If you ever once thought "They'd never add this to a cash-shop", then you clearly weren't here on launch with the rest of us.

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Yes, the F2P safety net was really apparent since day one, no surprise there.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Just because you don't consider it an advantage so doesn't mean it isn't, so there goes that entire argument. Again, an advantage is an advantage, whether it provides a stat increase only in PvE/PvP or not. Besides mount and minion count is a stat in their respective guides, and it is indeed progression towards having the max amount of vanity items obtainable, so there you go.


Just because your gameplay doesn't involve collecting minions, mounts and other vanity items doesn't mean it's not part of the gameplay too. If they didn't want us to collect all the vanity stuff, then why put their systems and so many of them in the game in the first place, including guides to track the progress towards obtaining all of them?

Checkmate cash shopists.

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Checkmate? hahaha. I'm happy the cash shop is here. Hope you enjoy it too :)

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Originally Posted by Roris

"Look I bought a cool horse and you don't have a cool horse, look at how cool my horse is and you don't have one but I do."

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And then everybody eventually buys the cool horse and it becomes "That Retarded Pony"

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Originally Posted by Roris

therefore having an advantage at least collector or ego wise.

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So what you're saying is that all people who consider minion/vanity collecting as their "endgame" are all dick-waving egotists when they summon their minions and wear vanity armor? Your words, not mine.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

all people who consider minion/vanity collecting as their "endgame"

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Originally Posted by Roris

While not everyone

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If you wanna twist my words, sure.

If minion and mount collecting is your goal good for you but it's not p2w. Reposting cuz lazy (also cuz we don't need 20 threads about the same thing)

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Making up your own game in the sandbox portion of ffxiv doesn't make this p2w.

If I join front lines and decide the guy who does the most emotes wins the match and SE puts a new emote in the cash shop, guess I better come start 20 threads about how XIV is p2w! Protip: doesn't work that way. Your personal mini game you make up does not redefine the games win condition.

Ever notice that all mounts run the same speed? Or that pure vanity gear is all Lv 1? Or that minions don't assist you in any tangible way? (Crafting, battle, stats, etc). Because SE has made a deliberate choice to leave those things as purely aesthetic. Aesthetic is not p2w. You can make up your own personal goals but that has no bearing on p2w.

Where was this rage with CE mounts and minions? Oh that's right there wasn't any. Hipocrits. Redefining what the game to suite your argument doesn't magically make you right.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

If minion and mount collecting is your goal good for you but it's not p2w. Reposting cuz lazy (also cuz we don't need 20 threads about the same thing)

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The issue here (imo) is that you're assuming some malicious redefinition, people have the right to their own model given it can be proven with some accuracy. Sure these changed definitions do -not- match one popular form, that does not mean they couldn't be proven accurate to its construction (reading each word together).

Slapping Galka lu shang with Shioban is endless fun* and I'm sure what I attempted to say was lost in translation but anyone going to battle against opinion has already hit a wall.. I figure some people are bending it just to do it, but I have faith (anecdotal evidence ftw) that most are not being corrupt in their vision as much as it is just "their vision". They're not happy with the circumstances and to them legitimately SE is selling what they would consider a game goal to them. Are you to argue they are playing the game wrong?

Really feel like we're working on a unwinnable battle....


*I can respect someone's expertise and disagree, no hard feelings/not sarcasm. But fyi you missed my mog mail I was going to go big on that last letter :P

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

And then everybody eventually buys the cool horse and it becomes "That Retarded Pony"

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"When everyone is special, no one will be."

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"Look I bought a cool horse and you don't have a cool horse, look at how cool my horse is and you don't have one but I do." While not everyone who purchases from a cash shop might think like this, it's one of the major obvious bases on which cash shops are built upon. People will buy shiny things to have more shiny things than others, therefore having an advantage at least collector or ego wise

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Welcome to capitalism? Actually, further than that...welcome to humanity. Hope you enjoy your stay.

Different times with a different generation. We're now in the facebook/mobile gaming era where buying for ingame stuff with money instead of earning them by playing is considered normal. Such a thought 7 years ago was outrageous but now you're called an old fart that can't keep up with the times.

Personally I despise it, no matter how much the cool kids of today insist that I am wrong. I guess I am turning into an old fart.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Yet again, go back and google what Pay to Win is.

It doesn't take a developer or a genius to figure that out, you're PAYING TO WIN if it's pay-to-win. Obtaining a minion designed FOR a cash-shop, by paying for it is not winning.

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I get what you are saying.

But by your logic, you are basically implying the only content 'worth' doing...the only content we pay for (as part of our sub) is basically, character battleclass leveling/dungeons/raids/bosses. That everything else is secondary fluff that could even be (free).

So yes, the main focus of the game is not, gardening or PvP or collecting minons etc....but to be fair, the main focus of the game actually isn't only battleclass leveling/dungeons/raids etc either. It's a mixture of all these things. A Free Company that only has it's members focus on raiding...that doesn't buy a house/garden/raise chocobos/socially interact outside a raid etc isn't actually realizing a FC to it's full potential. An endgame raider who only logs in to do is 'gear grind'/'raid' and then logs out also isn't actually consuming the game to it's full potential. SE expects people to 'try it all' and for a long time, the sub included 'it all' Now, it no longer does. Furthermore, many of the players that spend hours playing this game each week, would get burnt out if they only raided/leveled. The side content is what they spend many of their hours doing...and what helps keep all aspects of the game fresh for them. (I mean come on SE...only 3 dungeons in the ex roulette? That becoming boring by the 2nd week).

So yeah, maybe buying that mount doesn't actually fall under the standard 'pay to win' definition as you see...and maybe it should be called 'pay to enjoy' but still, it's not wrong for some people to be upset by certain content they enjoyed being now behind pay walls.

Also, all those purchasable items behind the cash shop pay wall: Now no longer have a story/quest or true reason for having your character have them in game. Sure, minions might have always been small achievements for completing certain quests/maps/missions...but you had to do something to have them...so when you see me with my broom minion, you know I either crafted it (which I did), or had the gil to buy....if have out my puppy, you know I did the quest. Were these hard? Well not really (gardening the right mats for the broom+having the right crafting job leveled and geared takes time, but it isn't 'hard) But since now you can outright buy the minion, SE had no reason to introduce it via a side-quest (which means less game to explore/play for all of us) or add it as a reward to a map/crafting recipe....all of which would increase things to do in game, and give us all more to do.

So is selling a minion a big deal by definition? No. Is it pay to win? Not really in the most simple sense... but it's 'pay to skip' and 'pay to be pretty' And many people who happened to enjoy collecting such content enjoyed it one because they liked having the little buggers ...but also because they enjoyed the side-quests/maps/crafting and exploring needed to do so.

This is a game that was billed on 'you can do it all on one character'
Meaning sure, you can be Healer one minute and Tank the next. But they also meant you could be a master Fisherman, Weaver etc. That sure, SE expected us to clear the storylines, level and take on the higher challenges in dungeons, but they also expect us to enjoy and consume the 'side' content too. The side content is important, it's not trash. By selling components of it in the cash shop, they are cheapening it...same as selling 'Progression Gear' in the cash shop would cheapen character progression.

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Originally Posted by Roris

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Just because your gameplay doesn't involve buying minions, mounts and other vanity items doesn't mean it's not part of the gameplay too. If they didn't want us to buy the vanity stuff, then why put a functioning cash shop system and continue to add things to the cash shop some of them in the game in the first place, including guides to track the progress towards obtaining all of them?

Checkmate anyone who can't afford 5 dollars.

*disclaimer this is a satirical post meant only to make people laugh, I do not align myself with any sides of the argument.

just take it as "DLC" like console game :p take it or leave it... at least not something you "MUST" buy :D

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Originally Posted by UlricCraft

"Shut up and take my money"

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.....is the current way of thinking for gamers, in general.

I am astonished as to how much real money people spend on "online" games nowadays - not only MMOs but mobile games and the like as well.
To put it from a very extreme point of view, the gaming companies have brainwashed people into thinking/evolving into the mind set that paying for this, for that, is acceptable and should be the norm.

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Originally Posted by Mariel_Crystallie

just take it as "DLC" like console game :p take it or leave it... at least not something you "MUST" buy :D

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exept we already pay for this dlc, it's called Subscription *grins*

the cash shop is simply because some of the people coming from free to play love to spend soo much money per month on a game... i did know a guys spending litteraly more of 100 bucks per month on a game... (and i have seen worst)
i can understand that SE want to try to get money from this people... however, it's a bad idea in soo many way.

i will be blunt, if SE was wanting more cash... they will sell them goodies outside of japan too! goodies are yes! cash shop in a sub games is sooo bad! seriously!!!

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

goodies are yes! cash shop in a sub games is sooo bad! seriously!!!

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"I accept to buy physical goodies but absolutely refuse any sort of digital goodies"

I think you should continue by refusing digital music and other stuff like that. They're not tangible either.

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Originally Posted by Roris

I did read and the consensus is that an advantage is an advantage, while some argue that this mostly only applies to PvE and PvP content, that is the fighting whether it be mobs or players, a lot also argue that the definition of winning encompasses a lot of things outside PvE and PvP. On that side a lot argue that having exclusive items that can only be obtained with money also provides an advantage, because in a way you are indeed above the rest in vanity count. IE. non cash shop consumer can only have 10 mounts , cash shop consumer can have 11 mounts, that's still 1 above the rest. ARR already has this advantage/convenience with extra retainers and has cash shop exclusive items.

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This kind of advantage was there right from the start. The game itself does not balanced around vanity/minions/mount or even furnishing as those have both gated content behind ridiculous amount of in-game money (and gated content considered to be bad in modern mmo gameplay-wise) or items that are only available by paying real cash like collector edition items, fanfest items, even veteran reward items ARE "pay2obtain" items.
And cashshop just add variety in those and a more direct approach of selling fancy stuff to customers, but the same principle stays that this part is luxury type and are not meant for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

"I accept to buy physical goodies but absolutely refuse any sort of digital goodies"

I think you should continue by refusing digital music and other stuff like that. They're not tangible either.

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You do realize that digital music are actually owned and store-able, right? And even if said people lost their device by some means, it's still linked to their account and they can re-download it again.

Can you say the same with digital minions/mounts? You're actually view-renting them, not owning them. When you cancel your subs, you lost your chance seeing them again. That's really and totally 2 different things. :p

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

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actually no. Your data is stored forever. They're still tied to your account even if you cancel your sub.

Sure, you can re-download the music for free, which is *better* than game-tied digital goodies. Yet you still own them the same way and the day you play again, they're still here.

My point was, they both share the same principle : you buy non-tangible things. they have no value per say other than the one people are ready to pay for.

Also, if you're ready to buy extremely over priced goodies from an official store (Silentwind's example), there is no way you can be against a cosmetic cash shop (which is also likely to be overpriced as it is cosmetic, mind you ^^) without being labelled as hypocritical. Yes, you can feel them, etc, they're tangible. But all in all, you buy overpriced cosmetic stuff. Some people prefer to buy them in their digital form, and I can't blame them. My flat is damn too tiny :p

edit : I know that you can store digital music on CDs to "make" them tangible. That's not the point here as you "could" also 3D print your pets/mounts if you really wanted to.

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

I still can't fathom how this mediocre movie (Frozen) became so awe-worthy.

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Because it's not mediocre! Better than Maleficent, which was garbage and some how did well. :p

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Originally Posted by Korilynn

Because it's not mediocre! Better than Maleficent, which was garbage and some how did well. :p

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I had it in reverse. Maleficent IMO are way better than Frozen, and I don't even like Angelina Jolie as an actress. I would even choose Princess and the Frog or Tangled over Frozen. Frozen are just too... spears/lohan-like. Guess I'm not into teen-like movies, but that's just me. lol

... and I hope there's no oot about this again. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

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You have a point on that one.

Still, it's all about comparing the current ARR with XI. Back in XI, I actually like doing those Magian trials and the long-winded effort to get what I want/needed. Even the job emotes needs those trials too.

Take Odin horse for example. In it's current form, the only way to obtain them are cash shop. But I'm still hoping that the future content, namely the Odin trial that ppl tried in FanFest would reward the same thing, hopefully when this might get introduced in patch 2.5. I like the idea behind hard work than just "buy it as your only option".

And... when you need to purchase stuff with "real" money, I expect something "real" I can hold. I don't mean the literal "hold", but as something I know I really own it, not locked behind a renting service which is how I view this. Something I expect from a "shop".

I do understand when I first start playing MMO that I'm only renting the service so I can take pleasure in it, and realize that when in the future ARR would close it's door forever or I have to stop, then I would also need to "let it go" (borrowing the Frozen-pun).

You said this yourself and I quoted:

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Your data is stored forever. They're still tied to your account even if you cancel your sub.

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then explain why I can't enter the old Eorzea (a.k.a 1.0) anymore? Is there a way I can re-enter that world? It's as what you said:

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

... as you "could" also 3D print your pets/mounts if you really wanted to.

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and I hope you're not referring to a certain "emulation".

^^;

Fist of all. L34rn 2 Engrish M8.
Thread: XIV: P2P or F2P? XI never has Cash Shop, why XIV has? Thread: FF XI Never had a cash shop, why should FF XIV?

And of course the answer was the first reply. (thank you for no being a troll)

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Originally Posted by lololink

Because it evolved and now players accept these kind of things that would never have happened or be accepted at that time.

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Now, for what I intend to address:

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

Lastly, this is not about me able or not to purchase those cash-shop thingie, but about how it robbed the satisfaction of achieving through in-game hard works, in which was my original thought of following P2P plans.

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In-Game Hard work? What do you have to say about this thread or this thread.

Or what do you have to say about people's comments such as this:

Thread: [FUN] Name one thing you'd remove from the game
by stardrifter Replies:108
Views:6,271
tome and gear grind, vertical progression.
tome and gear grind, vertical progression.

What I'm getting at is, it's not hard. it's just a grind fest. Everybody is complaining about the grind fest. If you want these minions etc? Fine, don't grind, jus pay for em.
Also, if you really want to work hard and get stuff, there's still lots to do. Unless every one of your DoW/M is i130, you've cleared every Savage Coil, FcoB, every one of your DoH can synth 4*, all of your DoL can gather 3*, you are the top PvP Rank, you have completed your sightseeing log and the Greatest Journey never told. You've farmed the hell out of the hunts, gotten everything you can, capped your standing and purchased all of he items from ALL THREE Grand Companies.

And Finally, if you've done that and unlocked every achievement in the game? Guess what, now that you have earned the right to complain, you need to get over yourself and realise that you are the only person who has done all that. SE isn't going to cater their entire game (1.5M Subscribers? anyone? nvm doesn' matter) to one person.

A Lot of people are against cash shops b/c in most games it is poorly implemented.

A lot of people also raged about the XBox1 proposed system for DRM. Wait, they didn't propose it, they were trying o capitolize on the cash cow system Steam implemented. Every gamer I know has a Steam account. Apparently it's terrible and everybody hates it? Come on.

A Good example of a Cash Shop is PlanetSide 2. Yes, it is F2P, but it is also not "P2W." (Pay to Win) If you choose not to buy things from the cash shop, you really aren't impacted at all, other than you can see things that other people purchased in game.

It's not like in order to get your 5th Inventory Tab you need to pay $5. It really doesn't affect you, and no content is 'gated' through cash shop. Just take a deep breath, relax, and get over it.

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

If I pay in cash shop, do I get the action figures too? or it's just a "mere" virtual vanity item that will be gone when I'm not subbing anymore? Still can't believe that Odin horse are just "virtual" item when you could get a life-like action figure for around same price too.

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Really? You can get a high quality, high detail figurine for 25 bucks? Please point me in that direction, cuz my most recent figure purchase was 116+shipping.

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Originally Posted by Edli

Different times with a different generation. We're now in the facebook/mobile gaming era where buying for ingame stuff with money instead of earning them by playing is considered normal. Such a thought 7 years ago was outrageous but now you're called an old fart that can't keep up with the times.

Personally I despise it, no matter how much the cool kids of today insist that I am wrong. I guess I am turning into an old fart.

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Don't sweat it. I'm right there with you.

On the flipside, Version 2 has finally (after a year) convinced me that the genre I joined about 15 years ago is dead. XIV V1 was the last flagship of it (a horribly, horribly broken flagship at that). Still, I'm 31 now. Probably shouldn't be playing games anyway. Cancelled sub last week, still 3 months of sub left, but no real desire to play any of it.

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

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What about the magian trials or relic/mythic process in XI? It's way harder, but from what I see when I play XI, ppl enjoyed it. I do finished getting a level 99 -PDT axe for my beastmaster through magian trials, and I enjoyed it. I do also undergo several in-progress trials, though I had it on-hold since I don't have the power to play 2 MMO same time. ^^;

I agree on 1 thing tho, the current progression in ARR somewhat lacks variety.

Oh... and atma has been greatly nerfed. I finished farming a set only by few hours. lol

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Originally Posted by Ilitsa

Really? You can get a high quality, high detail figurine for 25 bucks? Please point me in that direction, cuz my most recent figure purchase was 116+shipping.

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Think there's nowhere that said I'm referring to a high quality ones. Minions would be a fluffy-doll like which would be around same price, and depending on size and quality, you could get around that price for a like-like Odin horse with that price.

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

I agree on 1 thing tho, the current progression in ARR somewhat lacks variety.

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I'm sure this has been said a million times, but hell, i'll be 1,000,001. You should just go back to FFXI if you are so butt hurt on the direction FFXIV is going. Its still up, its still bringing content in, go have a blast.

Then again, FFXI -now- FFXIV players on these forums won't rest till the game is revamped and renamed to FFXI-2.

@BobbinT

you need to consider than nowadays more and more people are totally fine buying fully virtual goods that they'll never ever hold "for real"

Good or bad, it's an evolution which already occured and which we have to deal with.


For 1.0, you need to consider that the whole 1.0 FF14 has been abandonned. ARR was a new start ans everything begun anew, except if you actually said that you wanted to keep your characters data (that was the point of the legacy campaign)
All of 1.0 is gone. However, this won't happen with 3.0 and onwards as they will be regular extensions and not resets. Unless the games fails again or shuts down for good, your datas will be here and you'll be free to stay in 2.0 forever if you choose so.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

All character data has been kept. No characters have been deleted by SE. You didn't have to state that you wanted to keep it.

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Oh ok. Well, the other game data did get deleted though, namely the maps. Items are still here for legacy reasons, but that's it

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

For 1.0, you need to consider that the whole 1.0 FF14 has been abandonned. ARR was a new start ans everything begun anew, except if you actually said that you wanted to keep your characters data

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All character data has been kept. No characters have been deleted by SE. You didn't have to state that you wanted to keep it.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

All character data has been kept. No characters have been deleted by SE. You didn't have to state that you wanted to keep it.

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Don't try to reason with it.

Seriously, that people would straw man your statement to include maps, it strains the brain how anyone could make that leap.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I'm sure this has been said a million times, but hell, i'll be 1,000,001. You should just go back to FFXI

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People should go back to WoW, or GW2..you know where majority of Yoshida's design "Inspiration" came from?

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Then again, FFXI -now- FFXIV players on these forums won't rest till the game is revamped and renamed to FFXI-2.

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What people like you seem to forget a game has to take place in the same world for it to be a sequel, or even in a world related to the same one as the previous game. Did you know? XIV barely has anything original in it and most of it is fanservice or a spin on WoW's designs? If anything, ARR is just Final Fantasy + WoW-2 atm. Most enemies came from either XI, XII or XIII and some of the entire concepts came from other FF games. Also the only ones hurt are the ones who consistently tell people to leave. That's being bitter.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

@BobbinT

you need to consider than nowadays more and more people are totally fine buying fully virtual goods that they'll never ever hold "for real"

Good or bad, it's an evolution which already occured and which we have to deal with.


For 1.0, you need to consider that the whole 1.0 FF14 has been abandonned. ARR was a new start ans everything begun anew, except if you actually said that you wanted to keep your characters data (that was the point of the legacy campaign)
All of 1.0 is gone. However, this won't happen with 3.0 and onwards as they will be regular extensions and not resets. Unless the games fails again or shuts down for good, your datas will be here and you'll be free to stay in 2.0 forever if you choose so.

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I guess this is the current state of sad truth for now. Giving you my likes. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...lies/smile.png

Still... the principal of P2P began to waver from my mind when I saw the future addition they're planning to add, and starting to look more closer to what F2P has.

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

I guess this is the current state of sad truth for now. Giving you my likes. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...lies/smile.png

Still... the principal of P2P began to waver from my mind when I saw the future addition they're planning to add, and starting to look more closer to what F2P has.

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yeah, good or bad, many things are being added (not only in MMOs either) and there is only that much that we can do. Digital goods are part of this, and whether we like it or not well... it's here.

While not a fan of the concept, I am guilty of having bought a few of these on other MMOs and I'm not regretting it. They have no other value than the one I give to them, but they were worth it in my eyes in that time.

With recent evolutions in the concept, P2P and F2P can no longer be considered as drastically as before (pay for having full access vs pay to actually have options to play), and is now going to a "Pay to have regular, steady upgrades and improvements within the game for an extended period of time" vs "Be wary, the game might shut off tomorrow if no longer profitable. Help us by buying stuff here." Both will be likely to have CS (F2P relying solely on it) but P2P try to stick to cosmetic only in order to bring people to buy by themselves rather than making them to feel that they HAVE to buy to stay competitive in the game.

Fluff is game content vs fluff is not game content.
Fluff in cash shop is also pay to win vs fluff is CS is not p2w.
The definition on win varies with the player vs nah winning is only clearing raids/primals/stuff

It's like listening to an atheist and a theist argue. They'll never come to terms and both will end the discussion angy....

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

People should go back to WoW, or GW2..you know where majority of Yoshida's design "Inspiration" came from?

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Why should we? We like where we are, you obviously don't.

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What people like you seem to forget a game has to take place in the same world for it to be a sequel, or even in a world related to the same one as the previous game. Did you know? XIV barely has anything original in it and most of it is fanservice or a spin on WoW's designs? If anything, ARR is just Final Fantasy + WoW-2 atm. Most enemies came from either XI, XII or XIII and some of the entire concepts came from other FF games. Also the only ones hurt are the ones who consistently tell people to leave. That's being bitter.

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And Final Fantasy 1 is just a spin off of Dragon Quest's design, which was a spin off of Wizardry's design. FFXI is just a spin off design of Everquest. Starting to see a trend here? Also, Final Fantasy has been reusing monsters and certain themes dating back to the first one, what is so different here? They reused mob design? Is it that much of an issue? None of us are hurt here that you are butt hurt this not being FFXI-2, its actually funny if anything that people let their imaginations run wild that SE will see this apparent "error of their ways" and revamp the game to meet the needs of the few who want FFXI-2. Don't take that as there are no good ideas from FFXI, just these forums are pretty good at requesting the bad aspects of it.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

And Final Fantasy 1 is just a spin off of Dragon Quest's design, which was a spin off of Wizardry's design.

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Can you back up your claim here? Square & Enix are 2 different companies way back then before they merged, like more than 2 decades before they merged.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

FFXI is just a spin off design of Everquest.

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Again, can you back this up? I do installed EQ out of curiosity and tried them. While I could see the concept originated from it, each of their designs are way too different.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

They reused mob design? Is it that much of an issue?

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Did you ever played FFXI & FFXIII? Cause if you don't, I guess you never know that some of mobs exist in ARR are downright exact copies of their XI/XIII counterparts. There are way too many mobs from XI reused that I can't list here, you really need to play XI to know that. Heck, it even makes me think that Vana'diel & Eorzea were actually exist in the same universe because of the abundance of reused mobs here.

And dreadnought in XIII? I thought it was quite original until I got the chance to play the PC version until chapter 4 (i think), which struck me dumbfounded. That DN has exact design between XIII & ARR. You can't ignore the fact that this is just way too lazy.

I've no problem with the reused concept since the first iteration, but at least each series has their artwork collection quite unique. You can even see the FF mascot (chocobo & moogle, including cait sith since FF7) evolved through each iteration. Same concept, but different designs. Heck, even FFXIV 1.0 does have unique designs too. And that's one thing I love about FF.

The problem I see with ARR now is that it seems losing it's FF identity and got merged by various stuff that's not really makes each FF series unique. Back when FF9 were made, we already been informed that it'll be combination of concept from previous FF series. However, the end result makes it unique on it's own. In a way of re-used concept/design, you should try comparing ARR with FF9 and see what makes FF9 unique and why ARR wasn't.

In the end, ARR has just become mere marketing tools. Didn't really give me special feels as with what XIV 1.0 & XI did despite the flaws.

Boils down to people expecting FFXIV to be FFXI. Well, fact is FFXIV is not FFXI. Doesn't matter if there are the exact same copies/clones of FFXI mobs or whatever. Final Fantasy series are all under Square Enix and they are free to reuse whatever model they like. However, it doesn't change the fact that FFXIV is a separate game from FFXI. Deal. With. It.

I too used to struggle in this game. I couldn't make gil, low level open world monsters would kill me, I was constantly kicked from dungeons, etc. That is, until that fateful day when SE added Sleipnir to the Mog Station.

Now I have hundreds of millions of gil, I stomp even the strongest of mobs, and I get all of the commendations every dungeon I do! All thanks to my trusty steed Sleipnir, who gave me the advantage I needed to climb to the top :)

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

Can you back up your claim here? Square & Enix are 2 different companies way back then before they merged, like more than 2 decades before they merged.

Again, can you back this up? I do installed EQ out of curiosity and tried them. While I could see the concept originated from it, each of their designs are way too different.

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Common knowledge. Go take 5 minutes of reading on the internet.

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Originally Posted by FateAudax

Boils down to people expecting FFXIV to be FFXI. Well, fact is FFXIV is not FFXI. Doesn't matter if there are the exact same copies/clones of FFXI mobs or whatever. Final Fantasy series are all under Square Enix and they are free to reuse whatever model they like. However, it doesn't change the fact that FFXIV is a separate game from FFXI. Deal. With. It.

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Need to be careful, people don't take too kindly to common sense around here.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Common knowledge. Go take 5 minutes of reading on the internet.

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Sadly, you still lack enough knowledge for making that assumption. I played all FF till 12th series & DQ till 9th series. About 1.5 years in XI & installed EQ. I suggest you study well before making one. ^^;