Remove both marriage plans.

I'm glad I can just go ahead and pay for it rather than trying to save millions upon millions of gil for a year like I had to do with housing.

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Originally Posted by Kio

I'm glad I can just go ahead and pay for it rather than trying to save millions upon millions of gil for a year like I had to do with housing.

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Ty this 100% it makes it so everyone can have it

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Put all the features in both plans, mount and dress options on the same plan and call it Eternal Bonding. No paywalls, no player segregation, no cheap moneygrab. Give us the content we are paying for already.

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Please get over yourself and your false sense of entitlement.

selling a few trinkets for cash is no "Player segregation" (lol at the meaningless catchword, really).

The wedding ceremony is behind no paywall. It's an extensive service that everyone can get for free, and most probably the best implemented playable wedding ceremony in a MMORPG, if not in gaming in general. What's behind a paywall are a few cosmetic trinkets.

Payable cosmetic minutiae and mounts are nothing new in P2P mmorpg. Square Enix is simply seeking revenue, like every company, and more revenue means more investment in the game = more content for us all.

Again, please do get over yourself and learn something about the gaming industry.

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Originally Posted by Mogi

Ty this 100% it makes it so everyone can have it

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Lol at this. If you want everyone to have it you don't make it cash shop only.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

Lol at this. If you want everyone to have it you don't make it cash shop only.

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Let's see...going by this tell I got...hmm, I could buy an in-game currency gold wedding for $300! That's about the price of a large house, and should be expensive because it's a premium! Weddings should be expensive!

Also it's not cash shop only.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

Lol at this. If you want everyone to have it you don't make it cash shop only.

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It's not cash shop only but that's just between you and me :P no but for real it's free unless you want a mount and other goods. To me this is better then making it gil to win like most add on so far

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Originally Posted by Edeline

However, not everyone is like you. People play games for different reasons. They're just dividing content even more, forgeting what games are for.

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You're right, not everyone is like me, but again it is only vanity and you do have the option of a free choice and two payable choices which come with extra bells and whistles which are vanity, obviously the choice is yours with what you want from it. It's not as if you're being railroaded into paying so I honestly don't see any logical point for complaining about SE charging for two of its three options.

Basically games these days have dlc or extra content you can buy in addition to what you normally pay for this isn't exactly a new concept SE is taking here.

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Originally Posted by SamRosen

You ARE aware that your subscription fee doesn't cover developments costs forever right? That they still need to make extra revenue, because not everyone is paying for every month, just some of them.

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Everquest 1 and 2, FFXI, WoW for... 7 years?, EVE (PLEX maybe, but even that is regulated through the market itself) would say otherwise. If SE can't afford to keep their dev and servers up (which is BS since Yoshi himself said they only need 500k+ players to keep it alive) then they should raise the sub rate, not gate content behind a paywall. MMOs were able to operate no problem without a cash shop before. Stop making up excuses for SE, a multi-million dollar corporation isn't "your friend".

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Originally Posted by Antonius2004

I honestly don't see any logical point for complaining about SE charging for two of its three options.

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Welcome to the internet.

All Amazon Prime gets me is a raised minimum 'free shipping' limit, to make Prime seem more attractive.
And an artifical delay in shipping my stuff, to make Prime seem more attractive.

So not attractive to me at all, rather makes me look for alternatives.

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Originally Posted by Magis

Everquest 1 and 2, FFXI, WoW for... 7 years?, EVE (PLEX maybe, but even that is regulated through the market itself) would say otherwise. If SE can't afford to keep their dev and servers up (which is BS since Yoshi himself said they only need 500k+ players to keep it alive) then they should raise the sub rate, not gate content behind a paywall. MMOs were able to operate no problem without a cash shop before. Stop making up excuses for SE, a multi-million dollar corporation isn't "your friend".

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Interesting you'd name WoW, considering that it has a cash shop, selling mounts and more, exactly like Final Fantasy XIV.

Thanks for proving yourself wrong.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Interesting you'd name WoW, considering that it has a cash shop, selling mounts and more, exactly like Final Fantasy XIV.

Thanks for proving yourself wrong.

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Everquest 1 and 2, FFXI, WoW for... 7 years?, EVE (PLEX maybe, but even that is regulated through the market itself) would say otherwise. If SE can't afford to keep their dev and servers up (which is BS since Yoshi himself said they only need 500k+ players to keep it alive) then they should raise the sub rate, not gate content behind a paywall. MMOs were able to operate no problem without a cash shop before. Stop making up excuses for SE, a multi-million dollar corporation isn't "your friend".

WoW is the exception to the rule when it comes to MMOs. Take all the ones that did copy WoW and look what happened to them? OH yeah, dead F2P stacks of garbage. And the question was "MMOs NEED a cash shop to survive", which off all examples I gave, WoW is the biggest example of that.

I think we basically have to wait and see what the prices are for the Gold/Platinum tiers. They mentioned in the stream that the free plan would be fully-featured and they designed the whole thing around that, so even if you got the free package you'd get the full experience.

I think part of the issue is that they don't really want this to be an easy way for everyone to end up with draught chocobos given that until now it's been limited to the "invite a friend" feature (after that friend pays for 90 days of game time). But of course, it's a money-making opportunity for them, and I think they're trying to pitch it as a special event, not something that everyone would do just for the sake of clearing "content".

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Originally Posted by Magis

"MMOs NEED a cash shop to survive"

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"Required to survive" and "extra revenue" are two very different things.

I'm staying out of the main argument here regarding Eternal Bond though.

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Originally Posted by Magis

WoW is the exception to the rule when it comes to MMOs.

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Quality discourse aside, considering its success, WoW is THE Pay to Play MMORPG. As a matter of fact, it's the only one, besides Final Fantasy XIV and EVE online, that can be considered successful. It's hardly an "exception"

Oh, and by the way, EVE online has a cash shop as well, and not just for PLEX. It sells ship skins, vanity clothes and a lot more. Would you care to retract your ill-advised statements?

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

if we don't stand firm on this one, what will come

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It's too late to stand firm - The modern gamer has proven to companies they're all for micro transactions, hence: DLC, "Energy" based games and Cash Shops everywhere.

first with retainers, then with mounts nad minions and now with this. Im glad ive quit the game seeing as the trend has continued and people tend to be ok with it, and because of that it will only get worse. A company wants money and people are willing to throw money out the door for this stuff so it will just continue. This isnt the 2.0 i supported with legacy.

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Originally Posted by Mook_Mook

This isnt the 2.0 i supported with legacy.

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The big discrepancy in what was promised and what was delivered or rather the way in how it's been delivered is pretty sad, it's been a lot of bait and switch since day one. Even back then when they first started showing 2.0 screenshots they all featured the old battle system for almost a year, then suddenly it got changed just a couple of weeks before the first publicly playable build at Gamescom 2012, it's all spiraled down since then. Funny how all these announcements and changes always seem to be at the last moment, just weeks before they're implemented, so that players can't really do much about it.

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Originally Posted by Mook_Mook

first with retainers, then with mounts nad minions and now with this. Im glad ive quit the game seeing as the trend has continued and people tend to be ok with it, and because of that it will only get worse. A company wants money and people are willing to throw money out the door for this stuff so it will just continue. This isnt the 2.0 i supported with legacy.

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Ok you do realize we get a huge discounted sub price with our legacy subcription. We get the premium 40 character sub for $9.99 or $7.99 (6 months), other people who don't have legacy and just bought ARR have to pay $15 a month for the premium sub. We already saved so much money with the reduced sub over the months that buying a few minions or paying for a gold wedding isn't going to break the bank. Buying extra optional items just shows your support for the game. I find that paying $7.99 a month to play ff14 is a good deal and will gladly pay a bit more if I see a minion or mount I like.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Even back then when they first started showing 2.0 screenshots they all featured the old battle system for almost a year

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This is, as for most of the arguments I see from those against this, absolutely false.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

This is, as for most of the arguments I see from those against this, absolutely false.

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Most of the promotional screenshots including the 2.0 reveal was still showing and uitilizing the original 1.x battle system as stated by Yoshida and even anyone who seen it recogonized it off the bat. The "new elements" are what got people excited.

http://icrontic.com/uploads/features...enshot-001.jpg

Notice the setup of skills and the fact it's not GCD? That's the original Battle system (1.2x era.) This was the first glimpse we seen of 2.0 concept or not.

The next Screenshot we seen was:

http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/..._002_thumb.jpg

Note no GCD? Original 1.x system. It's ok to admit that things changed. 2.0 was only done because they couldn't fix core issues on the old engine..there was quite a bit promised that got thrown out or done vastly differently.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Most of the promotional screenshots including the 2.0 reveal was still showing and uitilizing the original 1.x battle system as stated by Yoshida and even anyone who seen it recogonized it off the bat. The "new elements" are what got people excited.

http://icrontic.com/uploads/features...enshot-001.jpg

Notice the setup of skills and the fact it's not GCD? That's the original Battle system (1.2x era.) This was the first glimpse we seen of 2.0 concept or not.

The next Screenshot we seen was:

http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/..._002_thumb.jpg

Note no GCD? Original 1.x system. It's ok to admit that things changed. 2.0 was only done because they couldn't fix core issues on the old engine..there was quite a bit promised that got thrown out or done vastly differently.

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Are those timers on top of buffs/debuffs in the party window? That was a interesting idea.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Note no GCD? Original 1.x system.

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LOL. You don't define a battle system simply by the presence or lack of global cooldown. The screenshots shown no "battle system" per se. Which makes the statement above completely false.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

LOL. You don't define a battle system simply by the presence or lack of global cooldown.

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It's perfectly ok to admit that they were using the old battle system. As much as you want your side of the argument to be true, you actually do define the battle system by what the system actually does. Using your logic, the original beta-early 1.0 era battle system that used the Stamina/"3 slot" system is no different than what we have today or what we had during 1.2x era.

GCD was introduced for balancing and including scaling back TP from 3k to 1k and TP use being used differently with ARR's system versus 1.x's. You can't have skills costing 2-3k with a GCD and it still functions the same way it does today, that's a completely different battle setup. It's just a bit funny out of everything, you'd ignore the obvious.

And yeah, they originally wanted the timers to be shown in that fashion rather than what we got now but it likely wouldn't have worked.

The old battle system is in fact depicted in those screenshots, all down to the old ability icons used in them, the higher TP costs, the higher TP max and individual CDs. Hell the very first 2.0 screenshot shows the old TP building abilities before auto attacks were implemented. Sure, call them concept screenshots all you want, but they were in fact used to promote 2.0 when it needed the most promotion. The very first screenshot was especially used back when they announced they would be reinstating sub fees soon and that those fees would help fund 2.0. It was and still is, plain and simple, bait and switch and false advertising at its finest.

Well this thread is still totally on topic :D

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Originally Posted by Roris

The old battle system is in fact depicted in those screenshots, all down to the old ability icons used in them, the higher TP costs, the higher TP max and individual CDs. Hell the very first 2.0 screenshot shows the old TP building abilities before auto attacks were implemented. Sure, call them concept screenshots all you want, but they were in fact used to promote 2.0 when it needed the most promotion. The very first screenshot was especially used back when they announced they would be reinstating sub fees soon and that those fees would help fund 2.0. It was and still is, plain and simple, bait and switch and false advertising at its finest.

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I don't know how the convo switched to the battle system however I will add this. Those screenshots are not false advertisements. These are called mock-ups and their purpose was to serve how the game "could" look not how it would look. That screenshot above was posted October 2011 around that time when they pretty much just started on the project. The reason this mockup was used was to portray what they were working on and a visual of potential things to come.

As the process moved forward things change, they build the world, potentially they started the classes/jobs to have their current abilities and they tested the old battle system to see how it would feel in 2.0 and they felt it was a bit slow so they tried GCD. A game isn't straightforward as say I want to make this game where I will use concept A B and C, because as the creative process moves forward, balance is made and ideas come together you see what works and doesn't work and you alter the concepts of the game based on what you see works and doesn't work. That's what makes a good game, not something where once it's set in stone it can't be changed but a concept that as you progress through the changes and realize what works it doesn't work you adapt and recreate it to form a more cohesive experience.

And quite honestly if you want to be more accurate then just take a look at the pdf and go down to page 7 that shows that screenshot which you claim as a bait and switch http://wdl.square-enix.com/ffxiv/dow...Outline_EN.pdf

Because it notes in asterisks that it's still under development and when something is still under development it means things can change.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Well this thread is still totally on topic :D

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So.....who's gonna place their bets on a 50% divorce rate six months from now? I'm gonna say 35% in two years. This community is pretty loyal ;)

Anyway, seems like a silly thing to get worked up about. Cash shops are contemporary. Pay to win MMOs are easy to spot and taboo. Don't really think this is the topic for doom and gloom considering all the other things that could be fixed, but what do I know? Youth today has no idea how to focus that "world changing" energy man...in my opinion.

Sheesh.

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Originally Posted by Airget

I don't know how the convo switched to the battle system however I will add this. Those screenshots are not false advertisements. These are called mock-ups and their purpose was to serve how the game "could" look not how it would look. That screenshot above was posted October 2011 around that time when they pretty much just started on the project. The reason this mockup was used was to portray what they were working on and a visual of potential things to come.

As the process moved forward things change, they build the world, potentially they started the classes/jobs to have their current abilities and they tested the old battle system to see how it would feel in 2.0 and they felt it was a bit slow so they tried GCD. A game isn't straightforward as say I want to make this game where I will use concept A B and C, because as the creative process moves forward, balance is made and ideas come together you see what works and doesn't work and you alter the concepts of the game based on what you see works and doesn't work. That's what makes a good game, not something where once it's set in stone it can't be changed but a concept that as you progress through the changes and realize what works it doesn't work you adapt and recreate it to form a more cohesive experience.

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That's fine and dandy when it's all mentioned in advance, however these big changes weren't publicized or discussed before being implemented. There was no mention at all that they would be looking into changing the battle system in any way post 1.23b, not even a slight hint, when all the other big changes coming in 2.0 were clearly stated or at least alluded to in both the first 2.0 PDFs and subsequent interviews and articles. Sure, some changes were expected and implied like a faster pace and a lack of lag thanks to the better engine and server infrastructure, which funnily enough it's still there, but not the entire 180 turn it did.

I get it, things and concepts evolve and change and also corporations don't owe anyone any explanations or justifications on their decisions, but they sure do get more respect when they do well in advance. Sure, Yoshida later posted a long justification on his changes to the battle system on the beta forums, but only after it was set in stone and he himself said all the feedback about it wouldn't be used because his new battle system concept was pretty much immutable.

The battle system argument came up because it's exactly what's been happening since back then, changes at the last minute without any sort of indication they were coming, after advertising certain features would be implemented differently for almost a year. Last minute exclusion of CT at launch, last minute changes to housing prices, last minute addition of a cash shop, last minute announcement of paid weddings, really there's not much trust left there.

They didn't make any last-minute changes to the wedding system. The wedding system itself is STILL FREE. You can still get married in-game for free, just as they promised.

The only difference is that if you want some extra trinkets, you can pay a little for them. That's it.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

They didn't make any last-minute changes to the wedding system. The wedding system itself is STILL FREE. You can still get married in-game for free, just as they promised.

The only difference is that if you want some extra trinkets, you can pay a little for them. That's it.

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The special chocobo and costumes were advertised for almost an entire year without any mention they'd be cash shop only, so yes, that is a big difference.

People who say they wont get married cause of SE:s decision only proves that they didnt care about it at all, they just wanted random stuff for doing it.

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Originally Posted by Roris

The special chocobo and costumes were advertised for almost an entire year without any mention they'd be cash shop only, so yes, that is a big difference.

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You still get costumes in the free version. You just get extra costumes in the Gold version.

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

People who say they wont get married cause of SE:s decision only proves that they didnt care about it at all, they just wanted random stuff for doing it.

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^This basically. It has nothing to do with buying things through the cash shop or not, it's simply players want to get 'all the things' minions and mounts wise for free. It seems this same arguement is going to show up time and again though sadly whenever SE dares add some premium item to the Mogstation, regardless of wether or not it's pure vanity.

I'm just happy we're having weddings period and I can have my character marry my bf's character regardless of gender (I'm leaving it up to him whether he wants the free wedding or to go the paid version, but ultimately it doesn't matter to me, I just want my Enki to marry her Jing ;)).

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

^This basically. It has nothing to do with buying things through the cash shop or not, it's simply players want to get 'all the things' minions and mounts wise for free. It seems this same arguement is going to show up time and again though sadly whenever SE dares add some premium item to the Mogstation, regardless of wether or not it's pure vanity.

I'm just happy we're having weddings period and I can have my character marry my bf's character regardless of gender (I'm leaving it up to him whether he wants the free wedding or to go the paid version, but ultimately it doesn't matter to me, I just want my Enki to marry her Jing ;)).

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I agree 100%. I mean, it's just a mount and a mini, who cares? My gf and I are probably going to do the pay one cause we never have any gil, but I'll never use the mini, and will probably never use the mount either since I have a draught choco.

just boycott it and don't pay for the extra's and when no one buys it then they will realize... but of course people will do it anyways..

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Put all the features in both plans, mount and dress options on the same plan and call it Eternal Bonding. No paywalls, no player segregation, no cheap moneygrab. Give us the content we are paying for already.

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Did they explicitly say it would be real world money to pay for the other services? Or did they just say that first is free other options are paid for, never stating that it would be RW money or Gil and some are jumping to one conclusion without an explicit statement to the fact?

Just wondering as it wouldn't be the first time some on the forums jump to doom n gloom with no real factual evidence.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Did they explicitly say it would be real world money to pay for the other services? Or did they just say that first is free other options are paid for, never stating that it would be RW money or Gil and some are jumping to one conclusion without an explicit statement to the fact?

Just wondering as it wouldn't be the first time some on the forums jump to doom n gloom with no real factual evidence.

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Yes they did, is a paid service via mogstation.

I only wanted to get married for the TWO person chocobo. For those who say its just a mount we have a ton, there are no 2-person mounts "free" (technically would not be free anyway since we're paying a sub) in game or id not be as upset about it. And no, the invite-a-friend pyramid scheme is not free since someone is paying for it (just not you) If it was just a fancy choco/barding/clothes/venue ect id not care at all. Just as I didnt care when they put in the odin mount/pets. I even bought the pets, not the mount because I believe it overpriced. I feel a bit misled about the whole thing.


Maybe they'll put the flying mounts behind a paywall too, I mean why not we already have mounts its all the same right.