Very conflicted about the cash shop...

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10-20-2014, 10:31 AM
Quesse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynfael

The subscription fee doesn't automatically entitle all players to use all FFXIV-related services and features free of additional charge.

But it should.
10-20-2014, 10:34 AM
Hurlstone

Must we really fall into mindless name calling and other such obscenities, rather then try and keep the debate civil? Why must there be so much venom and unbound anger?
10-20-2014, 10:35 AM
HulveinBlitz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurlstone

Must we really fall into mindless name calling and other such obscenities, rather then try and keep the debate civil? Why must there be so much venom and unbound anger?

Because this is the internet.
10-20-2014, 10:36 AM
KuroganeAre

It depends on what specific items they put in, if they don't take everything that you can get in game and put it on the cash shop and leave plenty of items for DOL to make gil on, then there is no problem.
10-20-2014, 10:41 AM
Heskett

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quesse

But it should.

But it doesn't. That's ultimately SE's decision. Their game. Their rules. Don't like it? Don't support it.
10-20-2014, 10:42 AM
Dwill

Quote:

Originally Posted by vientown

Hahaha, this is a hilarious derailing tactic that I always love to see. Not really, they're irrelevant if they're outwith the realm of feeling, they are there to provoke a feeling, thereby aligning your sympathies with his cause. In any case THIS is genuinely irrelevant as he offered a new analogy. Stop trying to find ways to ignore a person providing rational argument.

You not liking the argument doesn't make it irrelevant. If anything, you trying to garnish sympathies to your cause by using an improbable scenario just make you seem like you actually have no sane arguments. People know your made up scenario isn't happening and they don't have to feel anything for you and rightly so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quesse

But it should.

It shouldn't. Not everything is free nor is anything made for everyone to have, no matter the want for it. Developing content costs money and people buying certain items from a cash shop can easily increase development funding for content that is outside of it. If anything, it will be good for the health of the game.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preypacer

Ummm... says who? And on what authority?

And let me ask you this... All the people who create this content in the first place are being paid. Where do you think the money to pay them is coming from?

Here's a hint: They're already paying a monthly sub.

We have already paid them to create this content - months and months ago in the case of the halloween pumpkin hats. The money they get from us, at least in part, goes toward continuing development of the game - including the creation of content, items, etc. That content includes the Sleipnir mount, the minions, etc. Those people are paid to create that content, with the money we are paying them through our subscriptions. We already have, and continue to pay for it. Every month.

Yet they're asking us to pay for it... again.

Now, maybe where you come from, it's customary to charge someone again for something they already paid for. And maybe you're a-okay with that. Where I come from, though, that's called double-dipping, and it's not ok.

Beyond the blind fanboy-grade devotion to any and every decision Yoshi-P makes which pervades these forums, I have no idea how people can be "okay" with this. But here you people are, lined up to defend it.

Unreal.

Says Square Enix via the User Agreement you agreed to (Read the huge letters):

4.1 FINAL FANTASY XIV Subscription Fees. In order to access SQUARE ENIX's servers to play the Game, you must agree to a recurring subscription ("Subscription") with a minimum subscription term of 30 days, and pay a recurring subscription fee ("FFXIV Subscription Fee"). Square Enix may offer different subscription plans in its sole discretion. Further, Square Enix may offer you the chance to purchase additional features for your FFXIV Service Account, which we call "Add-ons" or "Options." Add-ons may be subject to either additional recurring fees or one-time fees. A "Recurring Fee" is a fee that will be charged on a recurring basis until you terminate your subscription. A "One-Time Fee" is fee that is only charged once. All fee rates will be posted at http://sqex.to/ffxiv.na.fees and any changes to Recurring Fee rates will be posted with 30 days' advance notice and notice will be provided to the Game community. Square Enix may change fee rates at any time in its sole discretion, and will use reasonable efforts to notify you at least 30 days in advance of any changes to any Recurring Fees. All FFXIV Subscription Fees are billed in advance. All FFXIV Subscription Fees are non-refundable, with the limited exception in Section 4.7 below.
10-20-2014, 10:47 AM
Heskett

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preypacer

Yet they're asking us to pay for it... again.

Do you have a gun to your head? Have they taken your family hostage? I thought for sure all of this was optional.
10-20-2014, 10:48 AM
Folsom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preypacer

Ummm... says who? And on what authority?

Are you asking that philosophically or literally? Because the literal answer is painfully obvious and the same as it would be for any person or entity that chooses how it wants to sell its products.
10-20-2014, 10:50 AM
Nimras

The odin mount should've been an obvious drop from the ex primal fight, now its a cashshop exclusive. monthly sub + paywalled content makes me feel.. well, about as excited about the game as when I almost burned out and quit during my atma farming days.
10-20-2014, 10:57 AM
ZReport

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleArrow

I think you're missing the problem here; it seems as though they're no longer providing these past items during the seasonal events like before. There was no listed NPC selling past items for this new Halloween event like they did before - b/c they're selling them in the cash shop.

NO MORE PAST EVENT CONTENT WILL BE AVAILABLE IN GAME - only in the cash shop.

If that's their prerogative, then so be it. Nothing in game is ever promised or entitled to us at all as players; they will do as they see fit with armor and equipment. Thankfully this change only applies to glamour and seasonal items, which hold otherwise no other in-game value.
10-20-2014, 10:59 AM
Hurlstone

Quote:

Originally Posted by HulveinBlitz

Because this is the internet.

True... I have to try and stop being such an optimist, hoping for civil debates and what not... :(
10-20-2014, 11:04 AM
Melinabean0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurlstone

Must we really fall into mindless name calling and other such obscenities, rather then try and keep the debate civil? Why must there be so much venom and unbound anger?

This would be exactly what I thought about all of these threads about the cash shop...Civil debate is awesome and can potentially be quite productive! But this is indeed a lot of name calling and such. I thought about posting about it as well, but then I remembered that this was the internet and it wouldn't matter because logic and civil discussion does not usually happen here. Glad I wasn't the only one though...
10-20-2014, 11:06 AM
ZReport

Quote:

Originally Posted by vientown

They're not 'selfish' and they don't feel owed, they are unhappy with the new terms of their subscription when their previous subscription was all-encompassing. Now they will drop the game and leave you kiddies dancing in a circle excited about paying $20 for a model that's been in the game since 2.0

It actually is selfishness in the literal -- players are mainly out for their own personal pleasures in game, disregarding anything else in the logical. This selfishness takes on the form of entitlement -- people feel that whatever is added to the game is owed to them [immediately]. When I say this, I mean they feel that all items in game should be free to obtain without any external factors in the form of paywalls.

Just having a subscription does not mean you are automatically entitled to whatever data is added through patches, and it never has been. SE is once again, a business. They will do what they will to make an extra bit of capital for their game, whether players like it or not. And this comes in the form of selling media (CDs, Blu-Ray, artbooks), Special Editions of the game, and a straight up Cash Shop. Liken this to paying to get into a club. Yes you can pay to get in the club, but you will also have to pay for drinks and food. And you will definitely have to pony up the bucks to get into the VIP section.

When you are pay for a subscription to play the game, you are paying for what content they deem accessible for your patronage.
10-20-2014, 11:08 AM
Jorge6029

Not supporting cash shop, I want all to be available through the game, I accept some items to come with special product like the sound tracks and art books but spend money to get items is just not fair, we fans deserve more respect from the Dev. team, we've been supporting the game since BETA, put those items in my veteran rewards
10-20-2014, 11:09 AM
Hurlstone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melinabean0

This would be exactly what I thought about all of these threads about the cash shop...Civil debate is awesome and can potentially be quite productive! But this is indeed a lot of name calling and such. I thought about posting about it as well, but then I remembered that this was the internet and it wouldn't matter because logic and civil discussion does not usually happen here. Glad I wasn't the only one though...

It is nice to see I am not alone then! :)
10-20-2014, 11:14 AM
Jaybot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwill

You not liking the argument doesn't make it irrelevant. If anything, you trying to garnish sympathies to your cause by using an improbable scenario just make you seem like you actually have no sane arguments. People know your made up scenario isn't happening and they don't have to feel anything for you and rightly so.

It shouldn't. Not everything is free nor is anything made for everyone to have, no matter the want for it. Developing content costs money and people buying certain items from a cash shop can easily increase development funding for content that is outside of it. If anything, it will be good for the health of the game.

Edit:

Of course development costs money. That is why we're paying monthly for it.
10-20-2014, 11:56 AM
Ashkendor

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

It literally negates 99% of the crafts available to every DoH except CUL, and each patch those high end crafts will be moved to vanity.

Who's saying ALL of the vanity items would be cash shop only? That would be dumb.

I think people are being really alarmist about this. e.e
10-20-2014, 12:09 PM
Dyne_Fellpool

"Vanity items only" is just how it starts. I've seen it more than once now.

*sigh. Well, I was really excited for Heavensward. But, I'm out. I'm done. If they are adding a cash shop I will not be subscribing anymore. :(
10-20-2014, 12:14 PM
ZReport

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyne_Fellpool

"Vanity items only" is just how it starts. I've seen it more than once now.

*sigh. Well, I was really excited for Heavensward. But, I'm out. I'm done. If they are adding a cash shop I will not be subscribing anymore. :(

My girlfriend said the exact same thing in almost all of the same words about an hour ago. I respect it. Though I've very doubtful that they will cashshop other things like P2W or even Level Boost like other MMOs.
10-20-2014, 12:18 PM
kingmunchkin

I personally feel that its okay to have a shop to buy items, if there is some other way of getting those items through hard work in the game. I feel like its balanced that way. However, from a business side of things (and seeing how much other MMO's bring in for each pet/gear set they release) I completely understand.
10-20-2014, 12:20 PM
MidlaneGod

Isn't more dough = more content?
10-20-2014, 12:24 PM
Mugiawara

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidlaneGod

Isn't more dough = more content?

There's millions of players subbing for this game and more from
servers transfers, the potion thing, more character slot thing and retainers.
They have enough. This is just being greedy.
10-20-2014, 12:29 PM
ZReport

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidlaneGod

Isn't more dough = more content?

Essentially yes. They've stated before they are well funded into the expansion and beyond, but receiving patronage can only further allow them to put even more money in the game and do more things with the production in the form of more varied and advanced research/content implementation in the future.

However, it's a very expensive process. If anyone remembers for example, Yoshi-P explained pretty much that the cutscenes for the Final Coil of Bahamut cost well over 1 million USD.
10-20-2014, 12:33 PM
Seraphe

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZReport

Essentially yes. They've stated before they are well funded into the expansion and beyond, but receiving patronage can only further allow them to put even more money in the game and do more things with the production in the form of more varied and advanced research/content implementation in the future.

However, it's a very expensive process. If anyone remembers for example, Yoshi-P explained pretty much that the cutscenes for the Final Coil of Bahamut cost well over 1 million USD.

Oh yes there'll be more content. Content you can buy in said shop. "You have finished the main story for Patch 3.1. Please purchase the next patch to get a new bunch of cutscenes."
10-20-2014, 12:35 PM
MidlaneGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugiawara

There's millions of players subbing for this game and more from
servers transfers, the potion thing, more character slot thing and retainers.
They have enough. This is just being greedy.

I wont mind them being greedy, to give us more content.
10-20-2014, 12:35 PM
ZReport

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphe

Oh yes there'll be more content. Content you can buy in said shop. "You have finished the main story for Patch 3.1. Please purchase the next patch to get a new bunch of cutscenes."

XD

/10char
10-20-2014, 12:38 PM
HiawathaNimah

My sub fees

I dont like the idea of my sub fees being used to develop exclusive content i have to pay extra for. The expansion alone is going to need enough content to justify dropping $40 (wont pay more than that).

I agree that this cash shop is treading a VERY fine line
10-20-2014, 12:44 PM
Blackweaver

My thoughts are, as long as the shop sells only vanity items only, I'm fine with it. It should never, and going to emphasis this: NEVER sell items that effect stats or leveling. It should avoid what World of Warcraft is doing.

Now, as long as it is sticking to just vanity items, I'd love to see some outfits that are level 1 with no stats being put into it like the old weathered starting gear from 1.0. Cuz there's some disciples of war gear, I'd love for glamour for Disciple of Magic. Maybe even bring in themed outfits from past FF games.
10-20-2014, 01:11 PM
Sakuraluna

I'm kind of conflicted how to feel about this too. I think as long as they stick to seasonal items and fantasias I'd be fine with it. The mount is where they already seem to be walking that fine line though. No reason why that couldn't have been included as a drop off the primal. I don't like where that seems to be headed, but the old items from recurring seasonal events I don't have a problem with. I've actually been wanting that pair of flower earrings from the spring event for a long time now and expected to have to wait till spring to get them.

Though, I really hope they don't include items from one-time events because I think some things should be left exclusive, but that's a different subject entirely. It would just be a bit disappointing if they did this.
10-20-2014, 01:11 PM
Amiantos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackweaver

My thoughts are, as long as the shop sells only vanity items only, I'm fine with it. It should never, and going to emphasis this: NEVER sell items that effect stats or leveling. It should avoid what World of Warcraft is doing.

Now, as long as it is sticking to just vanity items, I'd love to see some outfits that are level 1 with no stats being put into it like the old weathered starting gear from 1.0. Cuz there's some disciples of war gear, I'd love for glamour for Disciple of Magic. Maybe even bring in themed outfits from past FF games.

This is exactly how I feel. I really doubt we will see what the few fear mongers say will happen.
10-20-2014, 02:46 PM
Dwill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugiawara

There's millions of players subbing for this game and more from
servers transfers, the potion thing, more character slot thing and retainers.
They have enough. This is just being greedy.

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/pdf/ar_2013_01en.pdf

Look at page 01 and then tell me how they have enough again ?
10-20-2014, 02:55 PM
Seraphe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwill

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/pdf/ar_2013_01en.pdf

Look at page 01 and then tell me how they have enough again ?

You do realize that there are multiple ways to make those numbers seem bad/good depending on business strategy?
10-20-2014, 03:08 PM
Dwill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphe

You do realize that there are multiple ways to make those numbers seem bad/good depending on business strategy?

Yes, because partaking in financial statement fraud is a sure way to attract potential investors. And their CEO in 2013 being fired was probably all part of that strategy as well. Also their shareholders meetings and multiple interviews stating they were losing a lot of money (138$ millions in 2013) was just a clever plot to trick people.

The stuff you people against this come up with is actually pretty crazy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybot

Of course development costs money. That is why we're paying monthly for it.

Additional content development requires additional means of funding. And if you think your sub is only used to sustain this game, you'll be pretty disappointed.
10-20-2014, 03:11 PM
Seraphe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwill

Yes, because partaking in financial statement fraud is a sure way to attract potential investors.

There are times for a business when you do not look for investors. "We're not making money. We're losing money. Next year: We raised profits by a couple hundred percents"
10-20-2014, 03:23 PM
Dwill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphe

There are times for a business when you do not look for investors. "We're not making money. We're losing money. Next year: We raised profits by a couple hundred percents"

Do you even understand the implications of the statement you just made or do you just make a random crazy conspiracy statement based on reading 5 minutes of internet information about finance and because hating on companies is the cool thing to do ?
10-20-2014, 03:29 PM
Seraphe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwill

Do you even understand the implications of the statement you just made or do you just make a random crazy conspiracy statement based on reading 5 minutes of internet information about finance and because hating on companies is the cool thing to do ?

Do some research ;)
10-20-2014, 04:30 PM
Muzetta

Let's complain about paying for completely optional things, yay!

You're NOT forced to pay for any of this, it's purely vanity and thus not necessary to do ANYTHING in the game. Yet you people complain anyway. *sigh* They also clearly stated it will not be pay2win. If they ever change their thoughts on that, THEN you have a reason to complain about the cash shop. But until then, nope.
10-20-2014, 04:38 PM
Edli

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzetta

Let's complain about paying for completely optional things, yay!

You're NOT forced to pay for any of this, it's purely vanity and thus not necessary to do ANYTHING in the game. Yet you people complain anyway. *sigh* They also clearly stated it will not be pay2win. If they ever change their thoughts on that, THEN you have a reason to complain about the cash shop. But until then, nope.

Wth does pay2win even means. Win what exactly. People like collecting stuff, glamouring. There are people farming a primal for ages till they get the mount. Wouldn't he technically win when he gets it? This is not an esport game. Vanity is part of the game and people are after it as much as everything else.
10-20-2014, 04:42 PM
Orbiaus

It's only vanity.... actually just saying that means you have no clue as to why people play a mmorpg. I like to get vanity items like mounts, gear from older dungeons to glamour. This means more to me than just stats alone and I also like to EARN these items. I do content for it, dungeons, ex primals and beast tribes. It isn't only vanity. It is the reason many do content and just buying items takes any achievement away and just makes it "cba obtaining this item, i'm just going to buy it".
10-20-2014, 04:43 PM
Niqote

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edli

Wth does pay2win even means. Win what exactly. People like collecting stuff, glamouring. There are people farming a primal for ages till they get the mount. Wouldn't he technically win when he gets it? This is not an esport game. Vanity is part of the game and people are after it as much as everything else.

Pay to Win refers to Cash shops that provide things that will help you advance in the game such as experience potions, tickets to automatically level up or keys to chest etc.

Yoshida clearly stated our FFXIV cash shop will be Vanity only so we do not need to worry about such stupid things ^_^

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